Rate "Seven Years In Tibet"!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

No, I stated that more music is not always better, which is a different thing.

As for commenting on the Dutch, you would be unable too. I can comment with some accuracy about American culture because the whole western world has been inundated with it. The reason of that being because your culture is so simple, eager to please and easy on the eyes.

I have no prejudice against foreigners, I have conversed with foreigners nearly every day of my life. The women I love is from a different country, continent, culture.

I have friendships with many Americans here on this forum, people who are smart, intelligent, and know how to look beyond the obvious.

In the old days most people who were into film music were like that, because film music by itself is such a niche market.

I fear that this may no longer be the case.

[Neimoidian 13]

Did somebody said something about ASSES?

[Josh500 1,602]

As for commenting on the Dutch, you would be unable too. I can comment with some accuracy about American culture because the whole western world has been inundated with it. The reason of that being because your culture is so simple, eager to please and easy on the eyes.

You have no idea. I spend most of my time in Europe these days, and I know perfectly well what's going on in the Netherlands these days (politically, I mean)... but this is not the place.

No, I stated that more music is not always better, which is a different thing.

Yes, that's what you said. And then you said, to back up your claim:

Why not, we must be critical about everything in life, lest we walk about like open mouth gormless halfwits, accepting everything without question.

Explain.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Whatever might be going on politically in this country has nothing to do with me.

Explain.

If you cannot diferantiate the well made from the shoddy, the good from the bad, the thoughfull from the quick and simple, you will never become more then what you are.

If we were not critical, if we had never asked and wondered if there was something more, something different, we would have never wandered out of our caves those hundreds of thousands of years ago.

It is in our human nature to walk over to the next valley to see if live is better there.

[Josh500 1,602]

Whatever might be going on politically in this country has nothing to do with me.

And not all Americans are the same.

If you cannot diferantiate the well made from the shoddy, the good from the bad, the thoughfull from the quick and simple, you will never become more then what you are.

If we were not critical, if we had never asked and wondered if there was something more, something different, we would have never wandered out of our caves those hundreds of thousands of years ago.

It is in our human nature to walk over to the next valley to see if live is better there.

That's all very good, Stefan, but you remember what we were talking about? The amount of music on a CD album.

How does this prove your point?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

If you read my previous posts, you will see that I already stated not al americans are the same.

A large percentage of them are mindless herds of cattle, not questioning what they are being told by people who are trying to sell them something. Much like a large percentage of every country in the world.

That's all very good, Stefan, but you remember what we were talking about? The amount of music on a CD album.

Like publicist said, there's too much of it.

Williams' drama scores usually can't sustain a full CD of interest.

[Josh500 1,602]

That's all very good, Stefan, but you remember what we were talking about? The amount of music on a CD album.

Like publicist said, there's too much of it.

Williams' drama scores usually can't sustain a full CD of interest.

I suspect you're now purposely trying to evade the issue because you knew you screwed up with your arguments...

My point is, we should have more music so each individual can decide for himself what's good and bad, and thus be more critical (as opposed to being told what's good or bad, what we should listen to).

So you agree or disagree?

[Neimoidian 13]

Like publicist said, there's too much of it.

Williams' drama scores usually can't sustain a full CD of interest.

This is merely an opinion, but I have just got the impression it's being delivered like an objectively measured fact.

[AC1 3,565]

Forget it, Steef, the mindless consumer is led to believe that he is a thinking individual.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

My point is, we should have more music so each individual can decide for himself what's good and bad, and thus be more critical (as opposed to being told what's good or bad, what we should listen to).

So you agree or disagree?

In this particular case I disagree.

If the music were made availenle to us for free, then I would be inclined to agree.

But since I am paying for something I expect to be a well-rounded product, I except the composer/producer to present the music to me in a way that serves it's listener best. And in the case of many of these John Williams' drama scores, it is not served best by a near full-length CD presentation.

This is my opinion, but I think it is shared by a great many people here, since there is rarely a demand posed here for unreleased music from these more dramatic type scores when compared to the adventure/sci-fi ones.

[AC1 3,565]

My point is, we should have more music so each individual can decide for himself what's good and bad, and thus be more critical (as opposed to being told what's good or bad, what we should listen to).

That's the viewpoint of the frustrated fanboy who thinks assembling music tracks is a form of creativity.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Most of them just tend to keep every track anyway.

There are certainly cases were a complete, every note included presentation can be beneficial. But the older I get, the more I find it applies to less and less scores.

Perhaps Goldsmith was right.

[Josh500 1,602]

My point is, we should have more music so each individual can decide for himself what's good and bad, and thus be more critical (as opposed to being told what's good or bad, what we should listen to).

So you agree or disagree?

In this particular case I disagree.

If the music were made availenle to us for free, then I would be inclined to agree.

But since I am paying for something I expect to be a well-rounded product, I except the composer/producer to present the music to me in a way that serves it's listener best. And in the case of many of these John Williams' drama scores, it is not served best by a near full-length CD presentation.

I understand what you're saying, Stefan, but your logic is somehow off. And here's why:

The CD will cost the same whether it contains 40 minutes or 70 minutes of music. So the additional music we get in a 70 min. release is free.

And besides, with today's technology, everybody can create his own individual release that is to his or her liking.

This is my opinion, but I think it is shared by a great many people here, since there is rarely a demand posed here for unreleased music from these more dramatic type scores when compared to the adventure/sci-fi ones.

That's true. And maybe that's because we DO have most of the music from the drama scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

I understand what you're saying, Stefan, but your logic is somehow off. And here's why:

The CD will cost the same whether it contains 40 minutes or 70 minutes of music. So the additional music we get in a 70 min. release is free.

No.

Time is money.

If a CD has 70 minutes of music, while I think it really only needs about 40 it means that I am wasting 30 minutes by listening to it, which is time, which is money. Or that I must invest even more time into assembling my own version of the CD, which costs time, which costs money.

With any CD release there's a battle between the composers intentions and the wishes of the listener.

There are many CD's I love that have a track or 2, or some minutes of music I find redundant, or would rather have seen replaced with other music from that film.

But if I enjoy the score, i'll grant the artist his choice.

But if a CD runs 30 minutes too long, in my personal opinion.

Then the artist failed in bringing his creation to my attention in a meaninfull way.

One of the reasons I turned of Horner is that his CD released are now so damned long!

I have better things to do...

[Neimoidian 13]

This is my opinion, but I think it is shared by a great many people here, since there is rarely a demand posed here for unreleased music from these more dramatic type scores when compared to the adventure/sci-fi ones.

It can actually be a proof that these cds are well prepared. The question remains do you like that music or not. I am not a fan of, for example, Presumed Innocent and Saving Private Ryan which I find tedious to listen in whole, but it's a matter of music, not the selection. In case of SYiTI like all the music, even the most demanding and contemplative cues, and I wouldn't crop the cd.

I do, however, agree that sometimes less is more. Moreover, I find most of the albums thesedays to be too long, containing even the most incidental cues. I really welcome the fact, that many of this year's cds contain less than 60 minutes of music.

[AC1 3,565]

If a CD has 70 minutes of music, while I think it really only needs about 40 it means that I am wasting 30 minutes by listening to it.

I think most artists would agree with you. However, it's the companies that want to release long CDs because they have their eye on quantity and not quality.

[Melange 446]

[Josh500 1,602]

No.

Time is money.

If a CD has 70 minutes of music, while I think it really only needs about 40 it means that I am wasting 30 minutes by listening to it, which is time, which is money. Or that I must invest even more time into assembling my own version of the CD, which costs time, which costs money.

How does pressing a skip button or not importing a track onto your computer or your mp3 player translate to any substantial loss of time and money, I wonder. And besides, that's a small price to pay considering there may be a FEW people out there who just DO wish to have that particular track (which, for all I know, could be me or you).

With any CD release there's a battle between the composers intentions and the wishes of the listener.

There are many CD's I love that have a track or 2, or some minutes of music I find redundant, or would rather have seen replaced with other music from that film.

But if I enjoy the score, i'll grant the artist his choice.

But if a CD runs 30 minutes too long, in my personal opinion.

Then the artist failed in bringing his creation to my attention in a meaninfull way.

One of the reasons I turned of Horner is that his CD released are now so damned long!

I have better things to do...

That's why I said "in these cases." The tracks included on an album are mostly tracks that have been used in the movie. So most of it should be on the album.

Now, if the soundtrack album had been the express purpose of writing the music in the first place, I'd agree with you. Then it'd be a concert piece from beginning to end, period, and the artist should strive to bring out the most complete, satisfying, and artistic creation. But in these cases (meaning film scores), that's not the case...

So I don't agree with you.

[Neimoidian 13]

No.

Time is money.

If a CD has 70 minutes of music, while I think it really only needs about 40 it means that I am wasting 30 minutes by listening to it, which is time, which is money. Or that I must invest even more time into assembling my own version of the CD, which costs time, which costs money.

How does pressing a skip button or not importing a track onto your computer or your mp3 player translate to any substantial loss of time and money, I wonder. And besides, that's a small price to pay considering there may be a FEW people out there who just DO wish to have that particular track (which, for all I know, could be me or you).

I am with Sefan on this issue. For me an album is not a collection of random cues, but a piece of art/craft to be enjoyed and rated as a whole. If I don't like certain tracks, I find them flaws of the product. The same goes for the movie - I couldn't skip certan scenes that I don't like, and then say that I enjoy this movie very much.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

If a CD has 70 minutes of music, while I think it really only needs about 40 it means that I am wasting 30 minutes by listening to it.

I think most artists would agree with you. However, it's the companies that want to release long CDs because they have their eye on quantity and not quality.

Not to mention LOUDER is better.

I am with Sefan on this issue. For me an album is not a collection of random cues, but a piece of art/craft to be enjoyed and rated as a whole. If I don't like certain tracks, I find them flaws of the product. The same goes for the movie - I couldn't skip certan scenes that I don't like, and then say that I enjoy this movie very much.

Yes! I've always hated skiping through tracks to get through the good stuff. I prefer to listen to a CD straight through, like I prefer to watch a film straight through.

You don't skip scenes in a movie, do you?

[Josh500 1,602]

No.

Time is money.

If a CD has 70 minutes of music, while I think it really only needs about 40 it means that I am wasting 30 minutes by listening to it, which is time, which is money. Or that I must invest even more time into assembling my own version of the CD, which costs time, which costs money.

How does pressing a skip button or not importing a track onto your computer or your mp3 player translate to any substantial loss of time and money, I wonder. And besides, that's a small price to pay considering there may be a FEW people out there who just DO wish to have that particular track (which, for all I know, could be me or you).

I am with Sefan on this issue. For me an album is not a collection of random cues, but a piece of art/craft to be enjoyed and rated as a whole. If I don't like certain tracks, I find them flaws of the product. The same goes for the movie - I couldn't skip certan scenes that I don't like, and then say that I enjoy this movie very much.

Yes, the problem is, though, this is music.

What you hate might be something thousands of others want desperately...

I say, "This is the music JW wrote for this movie. And I want most of it on an album (if not all of it), because then I know the complete meaning of this project and the score. And I can decide for myself what I do or don't want to listen to."

In fact, isn't that what you were talking about when you said "being critical," Stefan?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

If an artist does that then he's actually catering to everyone's tastes.

Since when is that good?

Film music, by it's very nature has a lot of redendancy, a lot of music that is purely there to offer some sound in the background just because the director wants it. Especially these days with the wall-to-wall scoring of most films.

If an artists wants to cull his music tracks to seperate those he thinks add something substantial to a CD as opposed to just dumping the lot and leaving the buyer to sort out the mess, I think that can only be applauded.

[Josh500 1,602]

If an artist does that then he's actually catering to everyone's tastes.

Since when is that good?

So you're saying catering to fewer people's tastes is better? This is not some kind of European avante-garde movie... JW never does those, anyway, not even when he does his non-blockbuster works.

Film music, by it's very nature has a lot of redendancy, a lot of music that is purely there to offer some sound in the background just because the director wants it. Especially these days with the wall-to-wall scoring of most films.

We don't have 120 minute CDs yet. So that won't happen.

[Neimoidian 13]

Yes! I've always hated skiping through tracks to get through the good stuff. I prefer to listen to a CD straight through, like I prefer to watch a film straight through.

You don't skip scenes in a movie, do you?

Is that the question for me? If so, then the answer is no. However, I sometimes rewatch my favourite moments of a movie and I turn on only my favourite cues of an album. But it's something different.

Yes, the problem is, though, this is music.

This has nothing to do when we deal with something that suppose to form one coherent whole.

It does with cds like "The best of" or "Greatest hits", though, which are just bunch of random cues.

[Josh500 1,602]

This has nothing to do when we deal with something that suppose to form one coherent whole.

It does with cds like "The best of" or "Greatest hits", though, which are just bunch of random cues.

Huh?

My point is, this is music. Everybody has his own idea on what's supposed to represent a "coherent whole." Everybody's tastes differ.

[Neimoidian 13]

This has nothing to do when we deal with something that suppose to form one coherent whole.

It does with cds like "The best of" or "Greatest hits", though, which are just bunch of random cues.

Huh?

My point is, this is music. Everybody has his own idea on what's supposed to represent a "coherent whole." Everybody's tastes differ.

Of course, everyone has different tastes, different standards and different expectations, but, again, this has nothing to do with music being music. This goes for any form of art or/and entertainment.

Still, I disagree to accept that relativism which imply that anything should be equally acceptable.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Let me put it this way.

When in pop music, jazz, blues, rap, rock etc...etc... an artist or group puit together a CD they usually have to pick from dozens, or sometimes hundreds of songs that they have written, or or written for them.

Out of those songs they have to make a choice about which they think are the best, or fit best together, or compliment the theme of the album.

Usually we never hear those dozens or hundreds of songs that were rejected. In that way film music is different. Because we still hear it in the film.

[Romão 1,931]

I do agree with Steef quite often more is not always better, and some soundtrack albums are probably too long and the obsession we sometimes stumble of upon of wanting every single note composed for the movie seldom benefits the listening experience (on the other hand, some score do benefit from expanded and complete editions)

However, in the case of JW's drama scores, I have to disagree with Steef. If there's an area where JW's choice of tracks or assemblage of the listening experience often works, is in its drama scores. Schindler's List, Nixon, Sleepers, Seven Years in Tibet, Amistad, Saving Private Ryan, Angela's Ashes and Memoirs of a Geisha, just to mention a few, are all particularly well assembled albums which flow very well as an almost symphonic work, in which the structure of the work and the thematic development often shines through.

The lack of demand for unreleased music for these dramatic scores, as Steef put, is due, in my opinion, more to the type of score than with the quality of the music itself.

I wouldn't crop a track from the Seven Years in Tibet cd. Though I think scores like Minority Report, Stepmom, The Patriot could have their listening experience greatly enhanced by some trimming.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Nixon suffers from a dreary mid-section.

[Wojo 2,442]

I listened to this for the first time completely yesterday. It wasn't bad. I've always been fond of the main title since a now defunct soundtrack review site played a snippet for a contest and I didn't know what it was. But there's a melody in this score that just gets to you after a while because it's played so much. A lot of the action music sounded like it was a precursor to the action music in the SW prequels, but as background music while your mind is off doing other things, even mediocre Williams is better than a lot of other stuff out there. This disc was well worth the $7.99 used price.

[publicist 4,484]

However, in the case of JW's drama scores, I have to disagree with Steef. If there's an area where JW's choice of tracks or assemblage of the listening experience often works, is in its drama scores. Schindler's List, Nixon, Sleepers, Seven Years in Tibet, Amistad, Saving Private Ryan, Angela's Ashes and Memoirs of a Geisha, just to mention a few, are all particularly well assembled albums which flow very well as an almost symphonic work, in which the structure of the work and the thematic development often shines through.

Is that so? In my humble opinion, the few themes and motives Williams writes for those occasions seldom warrant more than 40 - 50 minutes, max. 'Schindler', '7YiT', 'Angela's Ashes', all outstay their welcome for me because they repeat the thematic material ad nauseum without much variation. Often he just slaps together 2 or 3 shorter tracks so that theme A pops up in minute 2 instead of minute 3 - at least that's my recollection of '7YiT' and 'AA'.

'Memoirs of a Geisha' is the only one of those 60+ albums which offers a more diverse listening experience.

[Mark_73 0]

No, you seem to critisize just about any opinion that does not gel with yours.

That in itself would not be such a problem.

But you seem to go against people who have well-thought out, balanced opinions.

Exactly! That´s why I give a f*** about his polls. Makes me really tired. No need to discuss with him.

[Josh500 1,602]

This has nothing to do when we deal with something that suppose to form one coherent whole.

It does with cds like "The best of" or "Greatest hits", though, which are just bunch of random cues.

Huh?

My point is, this is music. Everybody has his own idea on what's supposed to represent a "coherent whole." Everybody's tastes differ.

Of course, everyone has different tastes, different standards and different expectations, but, again, this has nothing to do with music being music. This goes for any form of art or/and entertainment.

Still, I disagree to accept that relativism which imply that anything should be equally acceptable.

Point, is anybody can decide for themselves what's acceptable to them.

That's why we should have more music rather than less (pre-selected) pieces of music.

Is that so? In my humble opinion, the few themes and motives Williams writes for those occasions seldom warrant more than 40 - 50 minutes, max. 'Schindler', '7YiT', 'Angela's Ashes', all outstay their welcome for me because they repeat the thematic material ad nauseum without much variation. Often he just slaps together 2 or 3 shorter tracks so that theme A pops up in minute 2 instead of minute 3 - at least that's my recollection of '7YiT' and 'AA'.

Maybe you're right, but this sounds to me like a rather pettish complaint.

The only thing that JW didn't need to have done is having the same recording of the main theme twice on the album: The Patriot, Sabrina, Angela's Ashes, Seven Years in Tibet, etc.

Let me put it this way.

When in pop music, jazz, blues, rap, rock etc...etc... an artist or group puit together a CD they usually have to pick from dozens, or sometimes hundreds of songs that they have written, or or written for them.

Out of those songs they have to make a choice about which they think are the best, or fit best together, or compliment the theme of the album.

Usually we never hear those dozens or hundreds of songs that were rejected. In that way film music is different. Because we still hear it in the film.

You don't know very well how an artist works, do you?

There's tons of JW music we never get to hear, either. You think EVERYTHING JW composed has been released (either in the movie or on album)? Don't make me laugh.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I agree that some of JW's drama scores dont sustain enough interest for a full CD treatment. However, given JW's history of choosing what goes in those CDs, I'd rather they give it the full treatment and let me do it myself.

[Josh500 1,602]

"Approaching the Summit" is really great!

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

To get back to the reduced running time, I listened to the remastered James Bond releases recently, which start with the original album sequences and I noticed how the shortened albums are really more a presentation of musical ideas than music telling a story (as the full score would be). It's a different approach, but one that works eaqually well as it neatly presents almost all of the composer's ideas in a short yet coherent whole.

I like.