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Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan by James Horner (FSM Expanded Edition)


Jay

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Well it's the same exact cue so I don't know how you could like it on the original but not like it on the expanded disc.

I meant I might not like the 'new' version if it's more echoey that the OST.

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Oh, if anyone wants a good chuckle and has read their liner notes for TWOK, head over to FSM and read the Star Trek II thread.

Mr. Hobgood feels Goldsmith has been insulted in TWOK liner notes. Of course he felt the same way when the Superman Box was released.

Basically it boils down to someone even having the audacity to suggest another composer can write something as good as Goldsmith.

linky

I did notice a certain lack of respect in the liners when it came to the issue of the Vulcan/Spock Themes.

The ultimate Vulcan music is still what Jerry composed for TMP.

Horners even cribbed the percussion from it for Mind Meld and The Katra Ritual.

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I would think you could replicate the final film version epilogue by using a wav editor to insert the Genesis music into the bonus track epilogue. Or maybe replacing the Narration section with the equivalent section of the bonus track version

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Not more echoey, exactly, Maxxie, but different in its echoeyness. For those who are familiar with Audacity, the OST was like Freeverb, and the FSM release is more like the Echo filter.

EDIT: I disagree, Stefan. I like Horner's and Giacchino's takes on Spock better than Goldsmith's. And Jason, yes, that should be totally possible, but it's a noticeably different recording, and I prefer the way the film version sounds.

BTW, one of the cool things about including the epilogue with and without the voiceover would be that we could then isolate the voiceover, too!

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You are wrong to disagree!

Goldsmith does a great job in making his Vulcan music sound completely emotionless. (a hard task for any type of music)

It's mathematical, purely functional almost ceremonial...but barren.

None of the other composers really captured that.

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That's just it - I'd rather hear his human half in the music, but tinged with Vulcan-ness. Horner did that marvelously...Giacchino focuses even more on the human side, perhaps too much, but the result is sure a gorgeous theme! (Despite its similarities to the equally gorgeous theme he wrote for Lost's Juliet.)

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I will agree with Stefan. I think all have their own merits (I prefer Eidelman's out of the rest), but Goldsmith's is a lot more interesting because of the other side that he works on. Of course, it's all very specific to the film, but the way it's used throughout is kind of chilling. Not in a Herrmann-Hitchcock kind of way, but more like Also Sprach Zarathrusta. Which again taps into the qualities of the film itself that the other movies don't have.

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Horner, Rosenman, Eidelman, Giacchino all focused on Spock's human half.

And rightly so since it fit in with the tone of the film.

Goldsmith in TMP brilliantly focused on his Vulcan half.

And it's so effective that it doubled up as music for Vejur.

And rightly so since it fit with the tone of the film.

But the whole point was how foolish I found his (Hobgood)complaints, especially after his ridiculous comments on the the Blue Box.

FSM is not anti-Jerry.

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Damn, Amazing Grace gets me all the time. Stupid emotions.....

It's the tragic quote of the Enterprise theme as Kirk's running to the engine room that's doing it for me.

Wasn't that on the OST?

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Goldsmith's and Horner's take on Spock were serving different functions.

Goldsmith's was to hilight the lack of emotion in both Vejur and Spock, which plays into the story arc they both share in searching for something beyond pure logic, the idea that Pure Logic is not enough, that the human capacity to leap beyond logic is essential for wisdom and understanding, and life has meaning that cannot be expressed with Logic alone.

Horner's is to provide an emotional connection to Spock and his friendship with Kirk, so that Spock's death is more emotionally impactful in the finale.

It's like comparing apples and oranges, and if I were to choose a preferred interpretation, it would be based on preference rather than suitability.

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I would think you could replicate the final film version epilogue by using a wav editor to insert the Genesis music into the bonus track epilogue. Or maybe replacing the Narration section with the equivalent section of the bonus track version

I've already patched in the Nimoyless section from the original cue over the narration segment of the final cue. It would be pretty seamless, only the sound quality isn't quite right. It's almost as if they didn't mix the rejected cue the same, the sound quality is harsh (like the old release).

You definitely wouldn't want the Genesis music inserted into the rejected end title. The rejected version sounds kind of frumpy.

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You definitely wouldn't want the Genesis music inserted into the rejected end title. The rejected version sounds kind of frumpy.

Actually it isn't rejected, Horner had to re-score because of the additional footage. In the original version after Kirk says "I feel young" it would have cut to the star field, instead of going to Genesis and Spock's coffin.

At least the Courage music in the original cue doesn't have the narration over it. ;)

Dan Hobgood is a freaking tool.

He loves Jerry, that's for sure. ;)

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Whilst not a dealbreaker, I am a tiny bit disappointed the full epilogue still includes the narration. I would have rather they left the narration version off completely, but it's only a little nitpick, as I'm sure the rest is great (the CD I mean, I know the score is).

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While usually I'm not the worlds greatest fan of narration, the few times were it absolutely DOES work are:

The prologue from Conan The Barbarian.

The epilogue from TWOK

Antony Hopkins's narration on Hannibal

The first track of WOTW.

And maybe a few other examples that escape the mind right now.

The music in the TWOK epilogue is still very audible. There are many other examples of that same music released without narration (the prologue from TSFS is very similar).

The alternate without narration actually sound a little less interesting without the narration (and the Genesis music)

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I was glad to notice that the little "tsk" noise it sounds like Nimoy made just before "To boldly go..." is gone on the new CD. Not sure if that's actually what that noise was, but that's what it always sounded like.

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I pulled up my OST version of Epilogue and End Title (since my new copy is still in the mail), and it sounds like a drum hit. I never noticed it before, and never would have if you hadn't mentioned it.

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yeah that's the Trekkie in you speaking .I've been wishing it wasn't there since 1982

I don't consider myself a Trekkie, at most I'm a casual fan and I do firmly believe that the Nimoy narration belongs where it is.

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Nimoy Narration is part of the music. Without it, halve the wonder of those few seconds would be obliterated.

Exactly. A narration-less version would be a nice addition, but I'd consider it an alternate.

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I pulled up my OST version of Epilogue and End Title (since my new copy is still in the mail), and it sounds like a drum hit. I never noticed it before, and never would have if you hadn't mentioned it.

Sorry!

Whatever it was, glad it's gone, always annoyed me.

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Huh, I'd never noticed that little click before! Definitely sounds like part of the Nimoy track, based on the echo and the fact that it was cleanly removed when they mixed the FSM release.

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I got my CD in the mail today (with the Williams magnet!). The liner notes are great and having the Genesis Wave on the disc was very nice, but the music is wonderful. I am so happy they released it.

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Bah...I'm sorry, but the Nimoy reverb is bothering me more and more. ;) I wasn't trying to find something wrong with the release...it just happened. The echo on the OST is absolutely perfect, and could be easily replicated with modern software. I really wonder why they went for the cheap-sounding effect they chose.

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While usually I'm not the worlds greatest fan of narration, the few times were it absolutely DOES work are:

The prologue from Conan The Barbarian.

The epilogue from TWOK

Antony Hopkins's narration on Hannibal

The first track of WOTW.

And maybe a few other examples that escape the mind right now.

I'd add the David Ogden Stiers action in the Prologue from Beauty and the Beast.

Ozzel - anxiously awaiting his TWOK

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I pulled up my OST version of Epilogue and End Title (since my new copy is still in the mail), and it sounds like a drum hit. I never noticed it before, and never would have if you hadn't mentioned it.

I never noticed it before either but just did when you pointed it out. On my GNP copy for Star Trek II during "Genesis Countdown" I think about slightly after 2 minutes there's a tick, almost like a skip and it annoyed me every damn time I heard it. I had Erik Woods confirm if it was on his copy too and it was, thankfully it's not there on the FSM release.

The FSM release blows GNP's release out of the water. The fact that FSM's is complete and unlimited people won't have to pay the $40+ that the GNP release is going for these days.

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Haha, true, that. Except for collectors' purposes...which, in this case, I won't understand at all. That doesn't mean I'll be giving my GNP away, though. ;)

FWIW, I don't that click was a drum hit, by the way. More likely something tapping Nimoy's microphone...something like that.

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FWIW, I don't that click was a drum hit, by the way. More likely something tapping Nimoy's microphone...something like that.

I've always felt that that noise was something Nimoy did, something with his mouth, prepping himself for the next line. Oh, well.

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hey David Letterman is using Wrath of Khan music in a segment

What was the segment?

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I'm trying to think if the narration works for me in Toto's Dune soundtrack. I don't think I listened past the third track or so, though.

I think it'd work if it wasn't so badly written.

"Oh, I forgot to tell you..."

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All of the unreleased music from TWOK is much more worthy than what didn't get released with KOTCS, not to mention that Horner's blows away Indy 4's score. There's no comparison.

The best quote of 2009 for me ;-)

Oh and I got the Goldsmith / Rosza magnet with my order. Hurrah. Now I can sell it on ebay.

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This may seem long, but since this thread is probably over now anyways, I've pulled my "Making of Star Trek II" book off the shelf and transcribed the short article that Allan Asherman wrote about Horner:

THE MUSIC OF STAR TREK

The success of any motion picture is directly based upon how believable it is to the moviegoer. There would be no purpose in watching a film without caring about the characters and what happens to them during the course of the adventure. A good script is the core of a good movie. There are other essentials as well: good direction, photography and design. One of the most important requirements is the presence of a good musical score. Music aids the audience in experiencing whatever reactions the filmmakers are attempting to instill with them. The score to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is completely successful in doing what it sets out to accomplish. This is due to the talent of the score’s composer, James Horner.

Horner, whose previous credits include numerous dramatic films, gives no hint from his work that his age is 28. He has full command of the orchestra; he knows what he is doing, and he does it exceedingly well.

Director Nickolas Meyer wanted the score to have the same qualities as an adventure film set on the high seas. Although Starfleet is a military organization, and the Enterprise is certainly the futuristic equivalent of a warship (a “ship of the line,” as Admiral Hornblower would call it), his prime concern was that the audience feel the thrill of adventurous travel. This is a distinct switch from recent science fiction films, which accentuate military pomp in their scores.

Horner learned of the choice assignment from Joel Sill, vice-president of music for the motion picture division of Paramount Pictures. He was introduced to Harve Bennett, Robert Sallin and Nicholas Meyer. Meyer, who has a strong interest in film music, helped to determine specifically what sort of score was needed in the movie.

James began to compose the score toward the middle of January, 1982. He had five weeks to complete this demanding task. During that time, he created approximately seventy minutes of music, half of which appear on the Atlantic Records soundtrack album for the movie.

During the five weeks of composition, he assured the success of the film’s last three reels of decisive action.

The scoring sessions lasted for five days, making use of a ninety-piece symphony orchestra managed by Carl Fortina. Horner himself conducted his score. Orchestrations were written by Jack Hayes, and in the finished film the music was edited by Robert Badami.

The soundtrack album for the film contains 44 minutes, 35 seconds worth of music, which include renditions of the opening portion of Alexander Courage’s original Star Trek series theme.

In the composer’s opinion, a little less music should have been included in the album, due to limitations in today’s recording procedures. The composer’s worry regarding the recorded score was that the music recorded in the grooves closest to the center of the disc would be too constricted to reproduce the fullest range of the melodies’ sound.

One of the most rewarding experiences that can occur to a composer of motion picture program music is being told that his music makes a sequence work in the best manner possible. In Star Trek II, there was some doubt about whether or not the short sequence on the surface of the newly formed Genesis Planet would be used in the final print. This doubt apparently persisted until the score was recorded. At the recording session, the composer remembers, the emotional impact of his music, juxtaposed with the scene taken in context with the rest of the workprint, led at least one of the film’s production people to weep from the sheer beauty of the sequence.

Mr. Horner listened to none of the tapes of the music written for the original Star Trek television series. Instead, he went by Meyer’s suggestions and his own perceptions to produce the score.

One of the most interesting pieces is Mr. Spock’s theme. Only 1 minute, 10 seconds in length, the mood created by this piece of music completely describes the sensitivity, conflict and loneliness of the character we have all come to know. The composer’s original intention when writing this piece was to locate an electronic instrument called an Ondes Martinot, which produces a distinctive, plaintive tone. Unfortunately, no one could locate this rare French instrument anywhere in this country, and Horner instead settled for recreating the sound of the instrument as closely as possible.

For the scenes describing the insane character of Khan Noonian Singh, the intent was the opposite from that regarding Spock’s music. Confusion, frustration and a pronounced crazed quality are present in the score in such a way that the audience is not distracted by any overstated “madness” theme. Still, we know something is terribly wrong with this man as we hear purposely inserted discordant sounds in the background of the themes describing the man.

For the band entitled “Khan’s Pets,” which ran a little over four minutes in its finished state, we hear the repugnant, slimy qualities of the “Wee Beasties.”

Horner felt that the opening portion of Alexander Courage’s TV series theme should be retained in his score. This questing melody, which suggests the essence of exploration that drives Kirk to journey on mission after mission, is called “Where No Man Has Gone Before.” Its presence in the film’s opening credits is a musical statement of executive producer Harve Bennett’s intention to preserve and present as many points about the original Star Trek format as possible.

In addition to the presence of Courage’s theme, Horner’s music is exciting and free. It plainly suggests a tall ship sailing to parts unknown and is similar in spirit to composer Bronislau Kaper’s opening title theme in the remake of MGM’s Mutiny on the Bounty.

In contrast to this theme of vastness and expansion is the claustrophobic and uncertain flavor present in the “Mutara Nebula” theme. This portion of the film was intended by Bennett and Meyer to resemble a World War II submarine warfare situation in which each ship is equally matched against the other due to a lack of working sensor equipment and extreme weather conditions. Horner’s music carries this illusion across to the audience.

The film’s epilogue and end credits are filled with hope, indicating that Kirk’s career has been resumed, the Enterprise sails on and that Star Trek will be returning in subsequent adventures. When it does, let’s hope that composer James Horner will compose the score that helps to describe the adventures of the Enterprise and its crew.

Allan Asherman from The Making of Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan, pages 211-215. Pocket Books, 1982.

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