The John Williams appreciation thread

[MSM 85]

The recent Jerry Goldsmith thread made me realize once more that we are lucky that Williams is still around, and kicking I find myself realizing everytime I log in onto JWFan that I am happy there is no headline on the Main Page stating the death of the maestro...one day it will happen - I hope that day is far away from now. I don't want this to be another morbid thread on JW's health, death or anything like that but just wanted to express my feelings on the fact that perhaps the greatest composer of modern times is still among us! I wanted to let hear a positive sound among the more common discussions about his music etc. Any other people having similar feelings or is it just me...

[Neimoidian 13]

[Wojo 2,442]

It is better to celebrate what we still have, than take it for granted, and is certainly better than lamenting what has been lost.

I just wonder if it's more appropriate to plaster in a thread, or just quietly reflect.

[Nick Parker 3,017]

While I think it is pretty safe to say that we all appreciate that John Williams is still on loan to us from Heaven, I think that it is something that can sometimes be taken for granted (I know I take it for granted more than sometimes), and so it is always nice to receive a little reminder of what we have.

[Hitch 55]

I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hap...........

[indy4 152]

[ChuckM 1]

Happy 28289^th Non-Death Day, John Williams!

[Koray Savas 2,095]

He doesn't compose much these days so there will be little difference when he actually dies.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

It does occur to me now and again that one day he will depart us, and I am very thankful when I look at the main page and see him alive and well.

But Koray's right, I don't think much will change. We're already at the stage where we mainly look back at his career and argue endlessly about his best work. In fact, given that I'm not very interested in his concert works, his film side is close to dead to me as it is.

The scariest thing though? When John Williams is no longer around... who's the king of film composers? The #1? Departing my anti-fanboy stance for a moment, there is no one who equals him in terms of public fame, consciousness and sheer mastery of composing.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Hans Zimmer is already more popular at least in name.

[MSM 85]

Hans Zimmer is already more popular at least in name.

Really

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Well I don't know for sure, there are probably more HZ fans than JW fans in the world because Zimmer has the appeal to non-film score fans. Anyone who is obsessed with Batman Begins, The Dark Knight or Pirates Of The Caribbean (millions) knows his name.

[Melange 446]

The "I am happy John Williams is still alive!" thread

I'm furious that the dummkopfs failed.

I handed them explicit instructions, too.

You live to see another day, Mr Williams.

But you'll never run far enough,I tell you

[Delorean90 32]

If Morricone were to actively survive Williams (that is, still be working after Williams passes), he'd probably be #1. The generation after him we have David Shire (has he done anything since Zodiac? I wanna say he has, but I'm not sure what it would be).

While he's been around for years, for some reason I still end up lumping James Newton Howard among the newer generation, but really he's more of a contemporary of Elfman. There are also the Newman family.

After that, we have Michael Giacchino and Alexandre Desplat of the newer generation--and I'd like to hear more of Edward Shearmur.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

This thread has value. I am not missing another JW show in California, I've decided.

Well I don't know for sure, there are probably more HZ fans than JW fans in the world because Zimmer has the appeal to non-film score fans. Anyone who is obsessed with Batman Begins, The Dark Knight or Pirates Of The Caribbean (millions) knows his name.

^ I guess you weren't around when Star Wars came out.

[MSM 85]

If Morricone were to actively survive Williams (that is, still be working after Williams passes), he'd probably be #1. The generation after him we have David Shire (has he done anything since Zodiac? I wanna say he has, but I'm not sure what it would be).

While he's been around for years, for some reason I still end up lumping James Newton Howard among the newer generation, but really he's more of a contemporary of Elfman. There are also the Newman family.

After that, we have Michael Giacchino and Alexandre Desplat of the newer generation--and I'd like to hear more of Edward Shearmur.

Shearmur indeed! Very talented guy. Btw what happend to Marc Shaiman?

Still, any of those names couldn't really come out of JW's shadow (yet). Morricone indeed would be the definite grand old man after Williams.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

Hans Zimmer is already more popular at least in name.

Thought someone would say that. Fame and public consiousness? Yep. Skill? I don't think so (and even if he did, that isn't what today's directors want with their walls of sound)

I Forgot about Morricone. He doesn't do enough mainstream to be in Williams' mantle I'd say, but the skill is there.

Problem with the younger guys (JNH, Powell, Giacchino, Elfman, the Newmans) for me is that none of them has yet done a truly breakout score that catapults them into household names like Star Wars did, and I find a lot of their output is inconsistent in quality at the moment (JNH's last couple of scores have had very lazy sounding bits, particularly Defiance).

[Diego 21]

Well I don't know for sure, there are probably more HZ fans than JW fans in the world because Zimmer has the appeal to non-film score fans. Anyone who is obsessed with Batman Begins, The Dark Knight or Pirates Of The Caribbean (millions) knows his name.

Yes, only there are more Star Wars, Indy and Harry Potter fans. Not to mention probably everybody recognizes the Jaws theme, Zimmer has never come even close to composing something as integrated to popular culture as the Jaws theme.

[pixie_twinkle 44]

What a nice thread! I am indeed happy that Maestro W is still kicking.

[Diego 21]

Here's hoping for a kick-ass Tin Tin score.

[Ollie 859]

Of course I'm happy he's alive.

Rather silly question/thread for a Williams website.

I will admit I can accept that it's obvious his film score days are mostly behind him, not counting Spielberg and perhaps the final HP.

[King Mark 2,924]

JW is wasting precious time by not scoring anything right now.

In 5 years PotC and TDK and whatever else Zimmer scored will be long forgotten . Right now he's "widely known" by 14 year olds who suffer from ADD but he's not with actual film score fans

[Red 73]

I'm definitely happy he's alive, and I think he still has some mileage left in him.

Hans Zimmer is already more popular at least in name.

Really

No, not really.

JW is wasting precious time by not scoring anything right now.

He doesn't have an obligation to work if he doesn't want to.

[Uni 306]

Also known as the "Morbidly depressing yet still appropos!" thread. . . .

I have to confess, I've wondered at times whether I would see that headline myself. The day is coming; I'd rather not think about it, though. Still, no one could say that this man hasn't lived a full and very, very impactful life.

Well I don't know for sure, there are probably more HZ fans than JW fans in the world because Zimmer has the appeal to non-film score fans. Anyone who is obsessed with Batman Begins, The Dark Knight or Pirates Of The Caribbean (millions) knows his name.

Are you kidding me?

John Williams scores have been purchased for years by people who don't collect film scores. To quote people's "obsession" with the two Batman films--not even five years old yet--compared to the worldwide love for, say, the original Star Wars scores, is ludicrous. I'm not saying Hans Zimmer isn't a widely-known and popular composer, but you're trucking an apple cart through Florida orange country thinking the two are even comparable.

Try the experiment I've always used to inform people that they know John Williams' music, even if they don't know they know it. Ask them to name one film with music that has in itself--separately from its inspiring film--become a cultural icon. The first film they name will have a JW score. Ask them to name another. Same result. A third. No problem. I have never had anyone (in countless dozens of these tests) recall a non-JW film in less than four tries.

I have never, ever heard anyone name a single film with a Hans Zimmer score, given ten or more chances. Never.

- Uni

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I Forgot about Morricone. He doesn't do enough mainstream to be in Williams' mantle I'd say, but the skill is there.

He's an Italian composer, and he's never really been big in Hollywood. He still composes a lot of Italian films and TV shows.

Yes, only there are more Star Wars, Indy and Harry Potter fans. Not to mention probably everybody recognizes the Jaws theme, Zimmer has never come even close to composing something as integrated to popular culture as the Jaws theme.

All of you are reading too much into what I said. Of course JW is more integrated into pop culture with Jaws, Star Wars and Indiana Jones, but you mention it to someone, they go "Yeah, the guy who did Star Wars." I'm saying I think more people know Hans Zimmer's name. I saw the Transformers score on eBay a while ago and the listing was "Transformers OST by Steve Jablonsky (Hans Zimmer)"

In 5 years PotC and TDK and whatever else Zimmer scored will be long forgotten .Right now he's in with teens who OD on red bull but he's not with actual film score fans

Just because you despise him doesn't mean you can ignore the facts. Zimmer will be remembered, and there are plenty of members here that like him and are actual film score fans. Hell in the little time that I spend of the FSM forum, there are people that like him there too. I've actually come to realize the FSM forum is a lot nicer and user friendly than this place, where opinions get ridiculed A LOT.

[King Mark 2,924]

Uni, we need you more around here to clarify things

Now I need you to explain that John Williams composed all the music to Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets even if William Ross has an official adapting credit.

[Ollie 859]

I've actually come to realize the FSM forum is a lot nicer and user friendly than this place, where opinions get ridiculed A LOT.

See? I told you it wasn't a bad place.

It may suffer from a lack of humor at times.

[Uni 306]

All of you are reading too much into what I said. Of course JW is more integrated into pop culture with Jaws, Star Wars and Indiana Jones, but you mention it to someone, they go "Yeah, the guy who did Star Wars." I'm saying I think more people know Hans Zimmer's name. I saw the Transformers score on eBay a while ago and the listing was "Transformers OST by Steve Jablonsky (Hans Zimmer)"

Again, I disagree (though I'm certainly not "ridiculing" your opinion, which you're welcome to share). If I poll 100 people at random on the street, not everyone will know who John Williams is--but I'll put a lot of money on the table that a good many more will know him than Zimmer.

Just my own opinion.

- Uni

[Koray Savas 2,095]

90% chance I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go ahead and say more people know Hans Zimmer's name. That's actually an interesting idea, to go out and poll 100 people. Anyone who plays an instrument and took classes in school knows John Williams name.

I mentioned the project I did in 10th grade earlier today: Create a soundtrack to The Lord Of The Flies. I had a cue from Far And Away on there, and my friend saw my cue list and said "Dude, John Williams? That's like all we play in band class."

[indy4 152]

From my experience, most common folk (and by that I mean people who aren't big film buffs or film music buffs) can recognize JW's music more than Zimmer's, will know JW's name more than Zimmer's, but will probably think Zimmer's music is awesome as opposed to JW's which is "alright."

[Ollie 859]

I mentioned the project I did in 10th grade earlier today: Create a soundtrack to The Lord Of The Flies. I had a cue from Far And Away on there, and my friend saw my cue list and said "Dude, John Williams? That's like all we play in band class."

Ugh, don't remind me. I heard our high school band butcher Williams for 4 years.

[John Crichton 4]

I wish Williams would pick one film a year or so that he'd like to score, but I don't begrudge the man for wanting to enjoy retirement. Or semi-retirement. Whatever.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

When I told my brother that JW will score the Deathly Hallows if they can work out the schedule conflict, he responded: "What schedule conflict? The only thing on John Williams' schedule is snoozing on the couch."

[Ollie 859]

No, it's composing concert works and conducting everywhere in the US but Texas it seems.

[Jeshopk 8]

I think Zimmer's MV style is a bubble that's gonna burst, kind of like the 60's Henry Mancini style, 70's Lalo Schifrin style or 80's Harold Faltmeyer style.

Composers will always rush in to the next gold rush, but the symphonic film score will never go out of style.

John Williams will be more powerful in death than you can possibly imagine. Until then, he's still holding that bar higher for those who are up to the challenge.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I think Zimmer's MV style is a bubble that's gonna burst, kind of like the 60's Henry Mancini style, 70's Lalo Schifrin style or 80's Harold Faltmeyer style.

That's an interesting concept. Not the first time I've heard it. But then what decade-only style comes next? What's different here is that Zimmer's style has already lasted 2 decades, and he has a great big happy family to carry it on into decades to come.

[Jeshopk 8]

From my experience, most common folk (and by that I mean people who aren't big film buffs or film music buffs) can recognize JW's music more than Zimmer's, will know JW's name more than Zimmer's, but will probably think Zimmer's music is awesome as opposed to JW's which is "alright."

John Williams' music is too good for most people. They like their Whitesnake and their Zimmer. Not a compliment to Zimmer.

I think Zimmer's MV style is a bubble that's gonna burst, kind of like the 60's Henry Mancini style, 70's Lalo Schifrin style or 80's Harold Faltmeyer style.

That's an interesting concept. Not the first time I've heard it. But then what decade-only style comes next? What's different here is that Zimmer's style has already lasted 2 decades, and he has a great big happy family to carry it on into decades to come.

Finally a style so innocuous as to survive long after it has worn out its own usefulness. If you think of it, everything stopped developing in the 90's didn't it. Rock is still the same. Hip Hop is still the same. Maybe the 00's have psyched everyone out.

[Nick Parker 3,017]

From my experience, most common folk (and by that I mean people who aren't big film buffs or film music buffs) can recognize JW's music more than Zimmer's, will know JW's name more than Zimmer's, but will probably think Zimmer's music is awesome as opposed to JW's which is "alright."

I had a terrible experience last November (a warning, though: as I look in retrospect at this post, it seems that I may have written it more as a "venting" mechanisim than anything else)...

If you guys do not already know, I am a stage hand, and I have been one for some time. Last year, the theater company decided to perform The Man Who Came to Dinner. For the play, Cole Porter actually wrote an original song to be performed by one of the characters. The actor who portrayed that character could not play the piano, so we just placed a grand piano on the stage in a position so that the audience could not see that the song was not performed by the actor, but rather someone in the left wing with another piano. Originally, the director, knowing that I played the piano, asked me to do it, but I refused, as I could not really read sheet music all too well. And so she got one of the extras to perform the piece. This guy was one of those annoying musicians who played for popularity's sake rather than their own (you know, the guy who performs Evanescence music to please people, who claim him to be amazing because he plays music that is recognized), and before one of the showings, he tried to impress some of the actors by performing the Jaws Theme. Naturally, he made one of most common mistakes when it came to that piece, which was that he played it in the completely wrong key.

Though I resented him (probably because I was a bit jealous of his popularity as a musician, honestly), I walked over to the piano in good spirits and said (in a non-condescending manner), "No, no, you are performing it all wrong! The right keys are here," and I demonstrated it to him.

After playing it back and realizing that it was indeed correct, he laughed and thanked me. I say, "Yeah, that John Williams is pretty great, huh?"

"Actually, I prefer Hans Zimmer's music." Up until that line, we were sharing a nice little moment of musical camaraderie.

Curious, I ask, "Now why is that?"

"Oh, John Williams is good for action stuff, but Hans Zimmer writes much prettier, sadder music." I could not believe it. Dozens of John Williams' scores raced through my mind that refuted this, dozens. And I would have listed all of them, too, had the stage manager not told me to take my position because the play was about to begin.

This kind of event is why John Williams needs to perform more of his lesser-known works at concerts!

[Ollie 859]

You should have punched him.

[Jacob 0]

That's the last thing one would expect to hear said of Williams. The converse seems the usual.

While I think it is pretty safe to say that we all appreciate that John Williams is still on loan to us from Heaven...

I do suppose they'll want him back someday.

[John Crichton 4]

I would have smashed his fingers with that bit that covers the keys, whatever it's called. I don't know pianos.

[indy4 152]

Nick, do you have perfect pitch?

[Red 73]

Nick, do you have perfect pitch?

It is pretty surprising that Nick would be able to know if it was the wrong key without knowing that much about music. I'm a musician and know how to read music I probably wouldn't be able to tell.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,064]

It is pretty surprising that Nick would be able to know if it was the wrong key without knowing that much about music. I'm a musician and know how to read music I probably wouldn't be able to tell.

Um...sorry to burst your bubble but reading music and detecting pitch/tonal differences are mutually exclusive skills handled by two opposite ends of the brain. Reading music has nothing to do with auditory processing.

[indy4 152]

No matter how much musical studying you do, you can't acquire perfect pitch if you weren't born with it. You can, however, acquire relative pitch.

[Diego 21]

I've actually come to realize the FSM forum is a lot nicer and user friendly than this place, where opinions get ridiculed A LOT.

Quit whining, it's a "JW is alive, hurray!" thread and you go "Hans Zimmer is more known anyway". What did you expect??

[Red 73]

Reading music helps to identify key changes though. Someone who wasn't familiar with music reading probably wouldn't know that particular piece was played in a different key. They could recognize it sounds different obviously but not that the key was off, because they wouldn't know what a key signature is.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,064]

I've actually come to realize the FSM forum is a lot nicer and user friendly than this place, where opinions get ridiculed A LOT.

Good. Leave.

Reading music helps to identify key changes though. Someone who wasn't familiar with music reading probably wouldn't know that particular piece was played in a different key. They could recognize it sounds different obviously but not that the key was off, because they wouldn't know what a key signature is.

I honestly don't know much more about this subject other than that reading music and audio processing are independent of one another. So I can't comment on that. Maybe, maybe not.

[Red 73]

Okay then.

[indy4 152]

Reading music helps to identify key changes though. Someone who wasn't familiar with music reading probably wouldn't know that particular piece was played in a different key. They could recognize it sounds different obviously but not that the key was off, because they wouldn't know what a key signature is.

If they heard the theme from Jaws played in one key and then another, most people would be able to tell the difference. That's kind of using relative pitch. Really what it is is using a note as a reference point to know what another note sounds like, ie somebody plays an E and because you know the interval between E and G you can "predict" what the G will sound like.

Perfect pitch is when one can hear a random note, given no reference point whatsoever, and know what that note is. It's not something that can be acquired, no matter how much time you spend in front of a piano, people are either born with it or not (and most are in the latter category).