Avatar (2009)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It is a majestic and simple tale of human vs. nature.

More like authoritarian statist imperialists vs. people who don't want their right to property obstructed. This like a remake of The Castle.

[Alejandro 26]

Before I left work, we had only sold 60 midnight show tickets. And it's gonna have mean competition next week with all the Christmas day releases. I smell a bomb.

The biggest midnight openings have been sequels. I think Avatar did quite well, especially with its running time and lack of following. People had school and work the next day, too.

Danger motif everywhere in the film. I think it's fun. He definitely does it on purpose, like a signature.

[Henry B 50]

The 3D glasses sort of strained my eyes. Maybe it's because I was sitting in the back of the theater and the picture was small. Next step, IMAX. In any case, the 3D well done, unlike in the trailer that preceded the film, Piranha 3D. I hope it's as good as Jaws 3D!

Anyway... wow. Well, the story is as conventional as they come, but the telling is extraordinary. Horner's score is still buzzing in my head. The environment of Pandora is extremely compelling. Only weird thing? I can't remember any of the characters' names, aside from those which came up in subtitles.

[bondo 33]

There are little tiny moments that are simply magical. I mean, what would YOU do in a field of giant flowers with that defense mechanism? I was welled up with emotion more times in this movie than all movies I've seen this year, excluding perhaps the nostalgia emotions associated with Star Trek. But that's not fair. This movie generated those emotions purely out of thin air, Star Trek did not.

Agreed on all counts! THIS is why I go to the movies. The military tech was 'cool' and 'badass,' but I couldn't wait to see them get their asses kicked after the atrocities committed in the film. And (without spoiling anything), the Hometree sequence definitely reminded me (score and film) of Titanic. THAT is movie-making at its finest.

[Hitch 57]

Can't wait for Paul Verhoeven's take on "Basic Instinct 3" in 3-D

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Well, I was rather disappointed in seeing the film.

Why?

Because it was the best film I've seen in years and the entire 10 person group I went with hated it. Every moment in the film seemed to have it's own purpose leading up to the end. No useless humor scenes to take up time. Of course, the CGI was beautiful. The acting(especially on Saldana's part) was marvelous, I felt. The score was great(especially at about 3:35 in the "War" cue. I'd listened to it prior, so I just got tingles when I saw what it accompanied in the film).

The story seemed predictable, but I don't think that was a detractor from the film. In fact, I commend it because Cameron managed to present it in a way that it seemed fresh and like I'd never seen it before, and indeed I believe it was.

Once every couple of years, I find a movie that I really feel emotionally involved in. I get excited at action scenes and sad at appropriate times. In the final scene, I was so touched, I almost felt myself tearing up.

But why didn't they like it? Because they were so overly concerned about the environmental message and how they disagreed with it and how they didn't like the anti-military message that they said the film could not be good. Because they said the story was too predictable.

Again, the story was predictable, but that's James Cameron's genius. He can turn an old story into a bran new one. As for the message, I think people really need to grow up and not judge a film on its message, but rather how it is presented. I don't care if a film is telling me we should worships ducks as gods as long as the message is conveyed in an understandable way that I can take something away from.

Either way, I give the film 10/10.

On a side note, I purchased the score. This should show how much I liked it as I download EVERYTHING. It's the best of this year and perhaps the last few.

[Morlock 11]

I honestly am not quite sure how to judge this film as a film. For me, the 3D added an element into the mix that I'm not sure what to do with. I know what to do with the story and characters (cliched but effective as a springboard), with all the different allegories thrown in there (often contradictory in nature, and occaisionally distrubing in their confusion, but rarely less than gratingly hackneyed), with the score (effective in the film but surprisingly dull on its own), with the pacing (good even though the final battle went on a couple of beats longer than I would have liked), with the acting (Pretty good, some great scne-chewing). But I'm having trouble figuring out how to weight the hum-drumness of the cumulative effect of all those stuff against the awe-inspiring experience of watching the film. Awe is not something one gets often in a theater, and certainly not on this level. And a great deal of it had to do with the 3D. For good or ill, this film does represent an important landmark. I don't think it's going to significantly change the future of filmmaking, but it is the first compelling 3D film I've seen, the first one that uses 3D as a medium, not as a gimmick or genre. I'd be very surprised if its half as compelling in 2D.

It's interesting- last week I saw A Serious Man, which was painful to sit through but amazing to think about. This week I have a film that was amazing to sit through but very unrewarding to think about.

[MissPadmé 17]

Perhaps the difference that he is James Cameron and you are... Well, what have you achieved exactly...?

More than you ever will buddy, that's for sure.

weren't you banned a long time ago for threatening someone here, and for making trollish sexist remarks towards me, or do i mistake u with another idiot? if you feel angry just go and choke your tiny chicken, that should do it.

[AI 0]

Oooh, that hurts..

Especially coming from the likes of you who has written nothing but vacuous rubbish on this forum.

What are you gonna do about it? Kill me??

Fucking idiot.

[John Crichton 4]

[Uni 306]

Thanks for posting the sign, Mr. Zookeeper. I almost didn't see it in time, and was about to make a mistake. . . .

For what it's worth, here's my (slightly gushing ) review.

I must say, that was not a bad bit of writing, Mr. Brigden. I'm fairly impressed. I like your take on the score (can't offer any agreement or disagreement, having not yet heard a note of it), and respect the way you put it. Your article has me more excited about hearing the score than I've been to this point. Thanks for sharing your words.

- Uni

[AI 0]

And then AI went; Woooooooooooooooooooooooooh, Bomp, Bomp!

and all was right with the world.

Aha...ahahahaha....ahahahahahahaHAHAHA!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Thanks for posting the sign, Mr. Zookeeper. I almost didn't see it in time, and was about to make a mistake. . . .

For what it's worth, here's my (slightly gushing ) review.

I must say, that was not a bad bit of writing, Mr. Brigden. I'm fairly impressed. I like your take on the score (can't offer any agreement or disagreement, having not yet heard a note of it), and respect the way you put it. Your article has me more excited about hearing the score than I've been to this point. Thanks for sharing your words.

- Uni

Thank you very much. I'm always a bit apprehensive at posting my score writing here, as I tend to come from a completely different direction than most score reviews and articles due to the fact that I'm not really knowledgable about the technical side of music. But that's really nice, thanks.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Seen it. Just gaia worshiping propaganda. Next.

[Quintus 5,399]

What the he'll has happened to you man, you used to be sharp witted!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I didn't see it last night because of this massive snow storm that hit the area. Damn it.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I saw it: great visually. Well designed and created world with the Na'Vi and Pandora as a world.

Story itself was basically what was needed to immerse one in this world, but there were some clunky things on that score.

Yes, blatant political rant in there, but I let it slide. Too on-the-nose to be an allegory (Direct references to Shock-and-awe probably unintentionally make the Na'Vi as a stand in for Saddam's Republican Guard), but it's really not as bad as all that. Just dumb.

The Military hardware was kinda cool, but we've seen it before, most notably in Aliens (Loader, anyone?).

Still, visually Pandora was stunning, and I loved the way everything worked there.

- Bioluminescence on a mood orbiting a Gas Giant, where it would be in darkness more than in light.

- The literal neurological connections between all native life.

- The detailed food chain and habits of all the creatures.

- The poisonous nature of the atmosphere where Humans were concerned.

- The fact that aside from the Na'Vi, all creatrues had the same number of limbs (6).

- The way the Na'Vi's understanding of their world is rooted in the nature of the world itself.

I think this movie actually got the science of it right, and created a fantastic world.

I greatly enjoyed the score on CD, and it worked on film, but there's really nothing new there.

I was impressed, with the reservations above. It will not change the face of cinema.

[QMM 4]

Just saw it, really liked it and I don't have much more to add to what's already been said here. Cameron's right in that the next step for 3D is to up the frame rate.

This may not change the face of cinema but the tech behind this is pretty revolutionary.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else developing a bit of a blue fetish?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Is it a perfect film? No.

But what is?

Is it great entertainment. Absolutely.

Can't wait to see it again.

[nightscape94 965]

This movie kicked my ass.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Absolutely loved this film!

[Neimoidian 14]

Anyone else developing a bit of a blue fetish?

You mean like this?

[QMM 4]

I've been listening to the score a lot since seeing the film and I agree with what Clemmensen said at the end of his review.

In sum, it's been difficult determining what overall rating to give this score. The minimum it deserves is four stars; there is no justification for going lower than that, because despite any concerns over the re-use, the assembly of the parts for this truly epic cinematic event makes for a formidable product. Sure, Horner's forcing of themes from The Four Feathers and Glory into obvious roles in Avatar is awkward (and a continued disappointment), but for those without those CDs on their shelves, does it really make that much of a difference in a context such as this? If you compare Avatar to the other scores of 2009, there's really nothing that can touch it in terms of ambition. This is a powerhouse of a score that ranks among the most diverse and thoughtful in Horner's career...

[Quintus 5,399]

Cameron has made a Disney movie!

Really good picture, very entertaining with a nice simple old fashioned story which doesn't fall into the common trap of disappearing up it's own arse. The tech lives up to the hype and my initial worries concerning the "big dumb blue aliens" of the misjudged trailer were completely unfounded - pretty much everything about Pandora and it's inhabiants convinces and in spectacular fashion, the uncanny vally may just be a thing of the past, as of now. I liked the characters and the script was as good as it needed to be. As for the score, well it was recycled and servicable, it got the job done. I've not heard it outside of the movie, but amongst the superb sound effects I heard nothing which distinguishes it from a Transformers Jablonsky score, et al. Make of that what you will. Either way, Horner is one of the laziest bastards in Hollywood.

Avatar is every bit the 5 Star sci-fi blockbuster I was hoping for, from Cameron. At least some old school directors can still be counted on to come up with the goods. I will see it again in the new year.

[Wojo 2,453]

Anyone else developing a bit of a blue fetish?

You mean like choking?

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Cameron has made a Disney movie!

And this fact supposed to be good?!?

Anyway I loved most part of the movie. Everybody praised the graphigs and it is amazing , I just loved how they used the

whole color-pallette creating the fantastic world of the Na'Vis. The story was fashinating enough.

The music was recycled from previous Horner movies plus music from Adiemus. Geez.

And what I didn't like was that "ultimate battle(the duel)"(once again , 100th time in these films). Does it always have to be

there , sometimes I don't even know am I watching Aliens , Iron Man , Transformers(never seen or will) etc. People must love

those military gadgets. Plaah.

So much good , some annoying stuff but overall a pleasure.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Cameron has made a Disney movie!

And this fact supposed to be good?!?

Anyway I loved most part of the movie. Everybody praised the graphigs and it is amazing , I just loved how they used the

whole color-pallette creating the fantastic world of the Na'Vis. The story was fashinating enough.

The music was recycled from previous Horner movies plus music from Adiemus. Geez.

And what I didn't like was that "ultimate battle"(once again , 100th time in these films). Does it always have to be

there , sometimes I don't even know am I watching Aliens , Iron Man , Transformers(never seen or will) etc. People must love

those military gadgets. Plaah.

So much good , some annoying stuff but overall a pleasure.

Quint's compliment about a Disney movie is a good thing.

Your criticism about the military part don't make sense.

I think that when you watch a Cameron movie you see there is a look to it and that look is similar in all his films.

That is a pattern I like. I see nothing in the film that would remind any intelligent person of Iron Man or Transformers. I'm not criticizing Iron Man, it's a solid film, but it's an insult to Avatar to use Transformers in any comparison conversation.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Cameron has made a Disney movie!

And this fact supposed to be good?!?

Anyway I loved most part of the movie. Everybody praised the graphigs and it is amazing , I just loved how they used the

whole color-pallette creating the fantastic world of the Na'Vis. The story was fashinating enough.

The music was recycled from previous Horner movies plus music from Adiemus. Geez.

And what I didn't like was that "ultimate battle"(once again , 100th time in these films). Does it always have to be

there , sometimes I don't even know am I watching Aliens , Iron Man , Transformers(never seen or will) etc. People must love

those military gadgets. Plaah.

So much good , some annoying stuff but overall a pleasure.

Quint's compliment about a Disney movie is a good thing.

Your criticism about the military part don't make sense.

I think that when you watch a Cameron movie you see there is a look to it and that look is similar in all his films.

That is a pattern I like. I see nothing in the film that would remind any intelligent person of Iron Man or Transformers. I'm not criticizing Iron Man, it's a solid film, but it's an insult to Avatar to use Transformers in any comparison conversation.

I can't find that look in Titanic.heh

What I was complaining was that final duel(edited to my original post). What are the odds that all three

main characters landed to the same spot for the final fight from thousand of fighters...

And you cannot argue that the robots looked same in Iron Man + Aliens finale.

Oh wait the minute ...or am I just nitpick-old-fart who should't watch these films , targeted maybe for younger audiences.

[Wojo 2,453]

That is a pattern I like. I see nothing in the film that would remind any intelligent person of Iron Man or Transformers. I'm not criticizing Iron Man, it's a solid film, but it's an insult to Avatar to use Transformers in any comparison conversation.

Please don't forget that Transformers began as a 1980s line of toys and animated cartoons. The live-action movie? It is a detriment to the happy nostalgic memories of those toys.

Maybe instead of saying the robots in Avatar look like "Transformers," we should say they look like "Go-Bots."

[Romão 2,274]

This was a dissapointment and it's clearly lower tier Cameron. Very nice looking indeed, but that is all I take from this film. It is far too corny, cliched, overlong and one dimensional. Not a movie I'll revisit any time soon.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Cameron has made a Disney movie!

And this fact supposed to be good?!?

A Disney movie where they say "Shit!" a lot.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Clemenson's review of the soundtrack is probably the best review he has done....in a very long time. And one I completely concur with.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ditto. Doesn't make up for his crappy reviews of a heap of Goldsmith scores though.

[Morlock 11]

I have so far been really dissapointed with the score. I thought it was terrific in the film. But it on the album-no new layers. I'd already heard all the interesting details when seeing the film. It was exactly as I'd remembered it, and really made for a quite boring listen. Strangest thing. Usually, if I like the score at all within the film, I'll like it even more once getting the album. Didn't happen here yet.

[publicist 4,643]

I have so far been really dissapointed with the score. I thought it was terrific in the film. But it on the album-no new layers. I'd already heard all the interesting details when seeing the film. It was exactly as I'd remembered it, and really made for a quite boring listen. Strangest thing. Usually, if I like the score at all within the film, I'll like it even more once getting the album. Didn't happen here yet.

I'm not sure either with all this 'it's so ambitious' shit. People hardly took notice when MIGHTY JOE YOUNG or FOUR FEATHERS came out and god forbid anyone would've used the word ambitious, then. And those are better scores, on the whole.

[Quintus 5,399]

The score to Avatar is in no way ambitious. What it is downright lazy, yet completely servicable, ie an utterly unsurprising, totally predictable, yet decently competent James Horner score. I mean, what were people really expecting, originality?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Enterntaining film, cool flora and fauna, nice sfx and serviceable score.

But Cameron, if you hire ILM as a secondary sfx company, let them handle the water and fire, since it's WETA's weakest point...

I'm still waiting to see the difference in creating the flora and fauna of pandora and, for example, that of naboo (since its the sw planet where more reseach and care was taken into its creation). I think i saw as many species in Avatar than in The Phantom Menace...

And i saw too many earth plant's lookalikes to be really impressed...

Great CGI folliage though.

- The fact that aside from the Na'Vi, all creatrues had the same number of limbs (6).

That is good? It got me itching the whole movie. Didnt they had nay biologist in the crew?

Lets see, how many limbs have all terrestrial vertebrates in Earth?

And how many do we have?

Yes, the same.

Arms are much more useful if you are bipedal and have hands, so it does not make sense to lose them. At least they dont have more limbs(6+), which would be biologically impossible)

And lets not speak of some creatures having multiple pairs of eyes and/or nostrils in the chest-neck, features the na'vi do not posess either...

[Quintus 5,399]

You can insist on making pointless comparisons between Avatar and The Phantom Menace all you want, but in terms of actual filmic quality, the two movies are polar opposites.

Oh and I think the water was fine. Weta have no need to out source anything and especially to the lesser ILM.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Before this goes any further, maybe someone should probably just create an ILM vs. Weta thread and go at it instead of the instant derail this is will potentially cause.

Still can't see this film. Grr.

[QMM 4]

And lets not speak of some creatures having multiple pairs of eyes and/or nostrils in the chest-neck, features the na'vi do not posess either...

Necessary concessions for beings that we are supposed to empathize with. If they deviate too much from humans then it gets really hard.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

You can insist on making pointless comparisons between Avatar and The Phantom Menace all you want, but in terms of actual filmic quality, the two movies are polar opposites.

but since i am not talking about filmic quality, i cant say what i want.

Oh and I think the water was fine.

At least your didnt mention the fire, i dont think anybody in their senses would say that was good CGI fire.

Weta have no need to out source anything and especially to the lesser ILM.

Yeah that's why even with a very long schedule and money, ILM, framestore and etc have done additional shots for the movie...

Did you check the LOTR credits? Lots of small sfx companies there.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

And lets not speak of some creatures having multiple pairs of eyes and/or nostrils in the chest-neck, features the na'vi do not posess either...

Necessary concessions for beings that we are supposed to empathize with. If they deviate too much from humans then it gets really hard.

So that's why I can't watch Julia Roberts movies.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

And lets not speak of some creatures having multiple pairs of eyes and/or nostrils in the chest-neck, features the na'vi do not posess either...

Necessary concessions for beings that we are supposed to empathize with. If they deviate too much from humans then it gets really hard.

there was no need to make the other creatures six limbed...

oh and just before i'm tilded of being on the Lucas bandwagon (why people think that is beyong my understanding )

i didnt like the tyrannosaur and raptor sounds because they felt reused. And i suppose that is Skywalker sound's fault.

[Quintus 5,399]

since i am not talking about filmic quality,

But I am.

At least your didnt mention the fire, i dont think anybody in their senses would say that was good CGI fire.

I thought it was good fire, but I can understand how it might look substandard, to one who views it through their own anus

Yeah that's why even with a very long schedule and money, ILM, framestore and etc have done additional shots for the movie...

Did you check the LOTR credits? Lots of small sfx companies there.

I bet you weren't in the LotR EE fan credits, where you? My dig at ILM was for two reasons, the second of which being merely the result of you comparing Avatar to TPM, where the vast majority of cgi is horrible. And it actually gets WORSE in the sequels, oddly enough. Outside of SW, with a healthy dollop of restraint and under the command of anyone other than Lucas, ILM can and does shine, though.

Before this goes any further, maybe someone should probably just create an ILM vs. Weta thread and go at it instead of the instant derail this is will potentially cause.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

But Cameron, if you hire ILM as a secondary sfx company, let them handle the water and fire, since it's WETA's weakest point...

Um...I happen to know three people, personally, at ILM that worked on particle effects (aka fire) and water. In fact ILM was behind 90% of the particle effects you see in this film. And they did a SUPERB job. Some of the most realistically behaving particles ever. ILM did all of it CGI. Usually they overlay special effects explosions into a 3D environment, but here all the explosions are made in a 3D environment.

So let me put it this way, anyone who has seen a real fire and real explosion, it does look fantastic.

Basically Luke, I'm saying you don't know what you're talking about. Can it.

Lets see, how many limbs have all terrestrial animals in Earth?

0-750. They don't have insects and spiders in Spain?

Again Luke, I'm saying you don't know what you're talking about. Can it.

Anyways, this is a bullshit argument all around. Everyone knows this movie belongs to Weta. But we cannot short-change ILM for the excellent work they did as well.

And both houses must be praised for their *stunning* collaborative achievement across the world and ocean. The Hometree sequence? Holy shit! Everytime you look at the Helicopters you're looking at ILM, everytime you look at the Hometree you're looking at WETA. That's a complicated task to split within one building. Between two buildings for two different companies spread across the world? Un-f*in-believable

Sounds like it was competitive too. They did the entire sequence in a racing style, whoever finished an element for that scene (like smoke trails from rockets) first, the other house would have to match it if Cameron liked it. So ILM would have the rockets fire from their helicopters, and since they finished the smoke trails in their shot first, Weta would have to match the smoke trails in their shot to ILM's.

Can you see what a logistical achievement this is?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Lets see, how many limbs have all terrestrial animals in Earth?

0-750. They don't have insects and spiders in Spain?

Again Luke, I'm saying you don't know what you're talking about. Can it.

Look, smartass, i did a mistake there, fisrt i wrote 'how many limbs have all vertebrate animals in Earth'?

But i didnt want people jumping and saying things about fish (though they still have the structures inside them even of they are vestigial) and the likes so i wanted to write 'all terrestrial vertebrate animals' (that would mean amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals) but instead of adding a word, i changed it. So it did not make sense if you went the overalayising way.

Anyway, you seem to know alot about CGI (and i must concede that i have to retract) since that's your field of expertise, so let me talk about mine, i know what i'm talking about.

[Quintus 5,399]

What a TIT!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

It's just a nitpicky argument that holds little merit in a universe of exceptions...

Just look at ours. Bats are mammals with two legs (and wings!), as are humans. Dolphins and whales have none, yet the majority of mammals have four legs and live on land. Snakes are terrestrial, but they have 0 legs. Springhares hop around on two feet.

So what's keeping the Na'Vi from being humanoid in their alien world?

I may not have a degree in biology, but I have studied too much physics, and at the end of the day evolution is playing in the playground of physical laws. Things will ultimately tend to succeed in a similar direction because the universe is governed by the same laws in this galaxy and the next.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

It's just a nitpicky argument that holds little merit in a universe of exceptions...

Just look at ours. Bats are mammals with two legs (and wings!), as are humans. Dolphins and whales have none, yet the majority of mammals have four legs and live on land. Snakes are terrestrial, but they have 0 legs. Springhares hop around on two feet.

So what's keeping the Na'Vi from being humanoid in their alien world?

Little merit? you are compleeetly out of clue about biology.

All those examples have vestiges of the missing limbs, and always they have ancestors with them.

I'm not complaining about their humanoid form. but if we are shown monkeys (or whatever) with 4 arms at one point, its rather strange that the humanoids in pandora have just two arms. you can lose limbs when you are not going to use them or transform them for another needs (flying, swimming), but please bipedism is there to free the upper limbs, four are much better than just two, it would be biologically stupid to make the effort to lose them. The navi live in trees, additional sets of arms would be great.

Can't you see the point?

Because as far as i see it, you are just defending this movie all-angle-perfection' as i was talking about star wars.