Avatar (2009)

[Datameister 2,042]

Both are overrated.

[Quintus 5,399]

But is Avatar really overrated? People obviously like it, but I haven't heard neither critic nor moviegoer call it a masterpiece (it isn't) or anything near that. I think its cheap to call a populist movie overrated.

[crocodile 8,012]

Both are overrated.

I always felt TDK is both overrated and underrated at the same time. People who called it "the best film ever" were obviously wrong. But then again there is not-so-small group of people (whose opinions I value) that dismiss the film way too easily (most probably because of the first group).

Karol

[Morlock 11]

But is Avatar really overrated? People obviously like it, but I haven't heard neither critic nor moviegoer call it a masterpiece (it isn't) or anything near that. I think its cheap to call a populist movie overrated.

Why is that cheap? A populist movie can be overrated just like any other kind of film. If a populist film is being hailed as a terrific movie, and I don't see what makes it worth-noting, why is it cheap to call it overrated? That is the most accurate way to describe Slumdog Millionaire, or District 9, or Up in The Air. Saying that they're not bad, but not great doesn't get to the heart of the matter, for me, which is that severly lacking film-making is being hailed as as something worth emulating. Overrated is precisely what I think some populist films are.

I don't think Avatar can be accurately described as overrated, because it is being so strangely rated. As you say, Quint, this is not a film people are hailing as a masterpiece, yet there is a heated debate about it (as opposed to The Dark Knight, which most certainly was hailed as a masterpiece). For me, it's in some sort of strange limbo at the moment. I'm not even sure I've been thinking about it as a film, aside from when I was actually watching it (both times), more like the phenominon it is.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

But is Avatar really overrated? People obviously like it, but I haven't heard neither critic nor moviegoer call it a masterpiece (it isn't) or anything near that. I think its cheap to call a populist movie overrated.

I agree, does it matter what superlatives are used. It's not overrated. It is the one film that has lived up to the hype. It is visually impressive beyond anything seen on the screen in a long time. It's story is simple but it's told well, and say what you want the acting is terrific. A character may not have many arcs but that doesn't mean it can't be portrayed with a vigor.

[BTR1701 59]

Unless the 3D and IMAX radically change what we have seen on our computer scenes, I don't see what's so special about these special effects. I mean, I've even seen the trailer in 3D and didn't like it, although maybe that's because I don't like 3D.

I will say that the vegetation looks pretty damn superb and realistic, but the machinery and Na'vi don't look revolutionary to me.

I'll fully admit that where this movie takes us in terms of the quality and process of visual effects are things 99% of people sitting in theaters will not appreciate. But for those of us who've been struggling to recreate an oil fire with particle effects for the last 10 years, it simply floored me every time I saw a fire or an explosion on screen. The end results are simply phenomenal.

For those of us who watched Beowulf or Davy Jones and could see the problems and limitations of motion capture technology at that time. The way the lighting was slightly off, shadows did not follow realistic umbra and penumbra. The way colors bleed together realistically. The way so many different tiny bits of detail in the faces are captured. This film represents earth-shattering processes.

Davy Jones was amazing. But he was one character. This movie does MORE than the artists for Davy Jones did....for MORE characters. The amount of work, the amount of data, the amount of hours in this film is just astounding.

And it took one petabyte of data at Weta Digital to do it, too. That's a phenomenal amount of data when you consider that all of the written works of humanity from the first cave drawings to this moment would total about 50 petabytes of data.

[Wojo 2,453]

I just watched Avatar tonight. I enjoyed it, it was good.

Visually, it was stunning. Personally just glad I could watch an over two hour movie with 3D glasses over my normal specs, I never got a headache or tired of the effects. On one hand, it looked much like the most pristine and untouched rain forest on Earth you could imagine, and on the other hand, Pandora's fauna, luminescence, suspended mountains, and other oddities remind you that it's not Earth.

Musically, I felt the score was effective. Even though I knew going in it was scored by Horner, the first money shot of the moon in front of its planet let you know if you didn't. But I can't remember a single melody after having walked out. It was a good score in the movie, but there were moments I think would be worth adding to the CD shelf.

Storywise, yea, it's a lot of what we've seen before. It's a retelling of common elements from various stories -- which all retold each other over the years -- as well as straight out of the history books. It's a parable and a morality play, but it's told in such a graphically intense setting, it's very forgiveable. Much of it is predictable, like you know that our hero will have to master the large pterosaur to unite the tribes, and that the failed attempt to save Ripley will work in the end to save the hero. But that doesn't make it bad.

It's worth the hype. I don't think I'll want to see it again in the theater, because I rarely do that with movies.

But if I had to use one word (or make it up, since Firefox is giving it the red scribble), it would be immersive. It immerses you in the world for two hours, and doesn't let up until the end. And even then, I'm torn between letting it stand, or seeing how Cameron will milk it with sequels. Though if I was the corporation, I'd return with dreadnoughts and bomb it from orbit, and that would be the end of all the blue resistance. So that won't be the sequel.

[BTR1701 59]

Though if I was the corporation, I'd return with dreadnoughts and bomb it from orbit, and that would be the end of all the blue resistance. So that won't be the sequel.

You'd have to nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...

[Wojo 2,453]

Well they didn't tell us anything about unobtanium, so we don't know why they want it. If it's an element, I'm guessing its rather large atomic number could make it radioactive, so nukes from orbit could be counterproductive if you turn the moon into a little thermonuclear sun.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I saw AVATAR yesterday. It was okay. Some of the visuals were the most amazing things I'd ever seen. Unfortunately, I felt no emotional or inspirational context or connection behind them. The characters and story, yeah, it's all full of archetypes, but those archetypes are presented in such a flat way. The acting is ok, but I felt some people were miscast. Some of the archetypes are, well, too archetypal, which seems mainly down to the script. Stephen Lang is hilarious, like Chip from SMALL SOLDIERS. Giovanni Ribisi continues to be awkward in anything that is not My Two Dads. Michelle Rodriguez was very underused, although, 3-D cleavage was ok. Much of the dialogue is terrible. I now understand the ambivalence behind the score, as it is not well presented in the film, and is often rather overbearing at times and often doesn't feel related to the action. The CGI was generally stunning. However I do not understand why the movie is in 3-D. That had no real extra effect on me, other than making me annoyed the ticket cost two pounds extra. It was only in the last half an hour, where the editing, sound and visuals wrenched themselves away from the weight of the script and the characters and allowed themselves some kineticism, that I felt AVATAR was possibly a sight worth seeing again. Maybe with some more editing (it did not need to be nearly three hours long) it could be better.

[Quintus 5,399]

The score does improve upon further viewings, I think. I find it fascinating that Avatar is truly a follow up to Titanic, in that it divides people just as that movie did, and yet the boxoffice laughs in the face of lowly opinion, regardless.

Avatar is a must-see movie, but not because it's great, but because people feel they should see it. The money men wish they could bottle that shit, but thankfully they NEVER will, because its impossible to bottle magic. Hollywood should be thankful for Avatar, because movies like it are far rarer than some people like to make out.

[QMM 4]

However I do not understand why the movie is in 3-D.

Is there a set criteria for you whether a movie should be 3D or not?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

However I do not understand why the movie is in 3-D.

Is there a set criteria for you whether a movie should be 3D or not?

Not at all. But the hype behind the film led me to believe that this movie should be seen in 3-D for the full effect, if you will. But I saw no real benefit or necessity from the process that made me think this movie absolutely has to be seen in 3-D, hence my pondering.

[Quintus 5,399]

If the movie "had" to be seen in 3D in order to garner any enjoyment from it, it would have just been a bad movie.

[QMM 4]

However I do not understand why the movie is in 3-D.

Is there a set criteria for you whether a movie should be 3D or not?

Not at all. But the hype behind the film led me to believe that this movie should be seen in 3-D for the full effect, if you will. But I saw no real benefit or necessity from the process that made me think this movie absolutely has to be seen in 3-D, hence my pondering.

It's not required but I think I got more out of it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I always chuckle when people trash the dialogue. It's one of the more lemur like comments that people read in a review then echo without any reason or understanding. The dialogue was real for the movie, it wasn't supposed to be shakaspear.

btw, there are few directors who get more out of his actors, and the man has a way with his female characters, and their performances.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I chime in only now because I saw the film last Saturday (it was released only last week here in Italy) and here's my thoughts, for all those who may care

I've enjoyed Avatar a lot--I walked into the theater expecting something I wouldn't probably like (the negative backlash has been indeed strong) and instead BANG! I was totally immersed into the story and the environment created by Cameron and his amazing artists/designers. I thought the story was simple and direct, but never found it trite or banal, it's a story very well told. The characters are really fleshed-out and credible and, while not being the most complex characters ever seen on screen, they carry a lot of the film's dramatic weight, thanks also to the very good performances by Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana. My girlfriend, who's not that into sci-fi or big Hollywood films, was deeply touched at the end of the movie. I also think the pantheist/animist side of the story was something quite well-handled. Sure, it harkens back to the George Lucas-approach to Joseph Campbell's essays (and I mean it with positive sense), but I felt it was well executed. And the visuals are absolutely breathtaking--if you are one of those who stared with wonder at those great illustrations on sci-fi book covers when you were a kid, then this film is a wonderful visual feast (of course I saw it in 3D, even though the projection wasn't one of the best).

The only element I found personally not in tune with the rest is James Horner's score, but that's another chapter and I don't want to go into there. Let's just say that, during several moments of the film, I wished John Williams would have scored this...

However, to give proper credit where credit is due, I had the main Titanic-like theme stuck in my head for a few days... damn you, Jamie!

I plan to see it again soon in a much better theater.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Lemur is certainly one of the more abstract names I've been called when someone doesn't agree with me. Hey Joe, you're a marmoset.

[Ollie 1,059]

Avatar has its sights on Titanic now. It passed TDK this weekend.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Titanic will always be Number 1 in my heart.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Mr. Lightoller reports the boats are swung out and ready.

[Wojo 2,453]

I think it's funny that in the year 2154, drivers of 14 foot mechs will still use a simple mirror on a pole to see what's behind them.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Titanic being beaten by some greenie video game movie. Unbelievable.

[Quintus 5,399]

Is there anyone alive out there? Can anyone here me?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Titanic will always be Number 1 in my heart.

Dont worry, Your heart will go on.

[Ollie 1,059]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I still haven't seen this.

[Sandor 797]

Well, I salute James Cameron.

For 12 years Titanic was the box office champion, both worldwide and domestic (not talking about adjusted figures of course).

Since Titanic, no movie came close in beating the records it set (TDK definately not worldwide).

I heard people say that because of downloading, increased DVD sales, etc. no movie would ever defeat Titanic.

And let's be honest: during the late nineties and noughties there were many big, event films released: Harry Potter, The Lord Of The Rings, Star Wars, Spiderman, Transformers, etc. They all fell short in becoming the 'new box office champ'.

Then the man who made Titanic decided to make another film, his first film in 12 years.

And what I absolutely LOVE in retrospect is the way Cameron's film was being cursed by critics and the public BEFORE it was released.

"Thundersmurfs?!", "I smell a bomb", "This will NEVER EVER beat Titanic!", "What was JC thinking?!!"

Etc.

Remember the thrashing after that first teaser trailer was released?

LOL. Someday people will study what he did. He did what all those big films from the 00's could NOT do. It's really amazing when you think about it. Lightning did strike twice, because in two weeks Avatar will be the #1 most succesful film in history.

[Wojo 2,453]

I went to see it to see what the fuss was about. I fell victim to the hype. I won't see it again in the theater.

Those three statements should count for a good portion of the money this movie's raked in. Sure it has its fans who fell in love with the movie and its world, and will or have seen it many times. Good for them. JC can have my $21.50 this round, but that's it.

[Red 75]

I guess it's fitting that Cameron is the one to beat his own record.

[Trent B 337]

Thank god, finally a movie that has out beaten Titanic at the box office! Go Avatar!!! I'm definitely buying the movie on Blu.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I went to see it to see what the fuss was about. I fell victim to the hype. I won't see it again in the theater.

Those three statements should count for a good portion of the money this movie's raked in. Sure it has its fans who fell in love with the movie and its world, and will or have seen it many times. Good for them. JC can have my $21.50 this round, but that's it.

I hope that 21.50 was for more than one person, otherwise I am extremely grateful not to live where you do.

Titanic is still a better movie than Avatar, though they are both fantastic entertainment.

[Trent B 337]

Titanic is still a better movie than Avatar.

Only in your opinion...I never cared for Titanic at all.

[Quintus 5,399]

I think they're about as good as each other.

[Morlock 11]

I think Titanic is a better movie, too...I'm sure it will age better, too.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah, I'd certainly agree with your second point. Avatar will likely date MUCH sooner than Titanic.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Though i prefer avatar, Titanic deserved every bit of praise it got, unlike the former.

[Sandor 797]

Though i prefer avatar, Titanic deserved every bit of praise it got, unlike the former.

? Does that even make sense?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Though i prefer avatar, Titanic deserved every bit of praise it got, unlike the former.

? Does that even make sense?

What? arent there any films you love that you know to have flaws or are overrated, yet other movies you dont like that much, you ackowlegde it's 'perfection' and masterpiece status?

In other words... i like CGI fantasy-sci fi movies... historical dramas-love stories are not my cup of tea.

The sinking scenes were cool anyway

[Quintus 5,399]

Maybe, but Titanic is neither perfect nor a masterpiece either. I'd rather watch Avatar instead of Kubrick's 2001, but I acknowledge that the latter is the superior film.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Maybe, but Titanic is neither perfect nor a masterpiece either.

well...yeah.

but its the kind of movie... i dont know if i explain myself.

your 2001 example is what i meant.

[Quintus 5,399]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8480954.stm

[Wojo 2,453]

They're Communist. I don't think they know what "hallelujah" means.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Titanic is still a better movie than Avatar.

Only in your opinion...I never cared for Titanic at all.

that's the fanboy in you talking, you're afraid liking it will make you gay.

Titanic is a masterpiece of blended genres. Titanic has great music, great acting, great drama, and it adds terrific action to a historical piece, with outstanding effects that never get in the way.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Marmoset, you are a master of eloquence.

I wonder (this is not a geekbait question) what the total would be if the 3-D price increases were taken off. I imagine it would still be loads, but I wonder how much of a difference it's made.

[King Mark 3,631]

Titanic is still a better movie than Avatar.

Only in your opinion...I never cared for Titanic at all.

that's the fanboy in you talking, you're afraid liking it will make you gay.

Titanic is a masterpiece of blended genres. Titanic has great music, great acting, great drama, and it adds terrific action to a historical piece, with outstanding effects that never get in the way.

Well it's a bit gay, just a little

[JoeinAR 1,949]

really it doesn't matter because it's going to make loads more money, and even if it were adjusted it's still the biggest deal to hit the movies in a long long time. Only TDK comes close. It has to be something to approach these numbers. And I'm talking strictly numbers not how people like or dislike it. Even I added to the boxoffice totals of Trans. 2 knowing full well it was a piece of shit, and it too was a phenomenon of somekind, not like Avatar, but something. The really interesting thing to me is that Avatars gone 6 straight weeks tops at the BO and nothing has come close to beating it. Now I wonder what will be it's Lost In Space?

Titanic is still a better movie than Avatar.

Only in your opinion...I never cared for Titanic at all.

that's the fanboy in you talking, you're afraid liking it will make you gay.

Titanic is a masterpiece of blended genres. Titanic has great music, great acting, great drama, and it adds terrific action to a historical piece, with outstanding effects that never get in the way.

Well it's a bit gay, just a little

no, not in the least, what's gay is being a fanboy.

[King Mark 3,631]

I want to the cinema today(saw Legion... ) and for the forst time in weeks the Imax Avatar was not sold out

[JoeinAR 1,949]

did you like Legion? Didn't you once tell us that you go see virtually every new release?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Titanic isn't gay. Many hetero guys will tell you, correctly, that it is the ULTIMATE date movie.

The hour or so where Titanic sinks is worth the price of admission. The movie completely changes gears and becomes a full-on action/thriller/disaster. It's a damn epic, like the kind of film they used to make before the business went to shit, with studios going nearly bankrupt funding these enormous productions. It's the last of those big Hollywood epics. I'll always have this image in my head of the giant recreation of the set tilted into the water, decks littered with extras, lifeboats being lowered and James Cameron filming it all from a construction crane. It's the movie that made me want to become a filmmaker, but indeed nobody could do it like Cameron. There will never be another movie like Titanic.