Memoirs of a Geisha

[indy4 152]

I feel that this score, being the one that Williams himself seems to adore so much and also the one that comes to fans' minds more than any other when they think of Oscars he should have won, is not getting proper enjoyment from myself. I certainly don't dislike it, I love certain cues ("Going to School" and "End Credits") and like several others, and the piano/cello duets released on iTunes are absolutely stunning, but I find that as a whole there's something in the score that I'm just not hearing. It'd be easy for me to pluck out a couple of cues for a "Best Of" CD, but the big picture--the score as a cohesive whole--doesn't do much for me. I haven't read the book or seen the film, so that could certainly be a factor, but I'd like to try to learn to love this score as so many (including the Maestro himself) do.

Of course I understand that taste varies and it's possible that this score just isn't for me, but I'd like to at least try to enjoy it more. So, I'd appreciate it if you all could let me know what exactly makes this score the masterpiece it is, how does it display Williams' higher-than-usual inspiration (which I know is there by watching the interviews), why is it one of the best Williams works of the 2000s?

[Henry B 49]

I know that Williams did a lot of research on Japanese music and instruments in writing this score, so there was a learning component to it.

[Romão 1,931]

I normally don't rely on watching the movies in order to enhance my enjoyment of a score, but in the case Memoirs, the music is so promenient in the movie, so much in the foreground, carrying entire sequences (As the Water and the Chairman's Waltz come to mind), that I think if you watch the movie, you might gain some additional apreciation for this score.

[indy4 152]

Perhaps that's the key. I'll try to do so.

[Diego 21]

You know, it's all right not to like it, if you've given it several chances and you still need advice to "learn to love it" maybe you just don't like it all that much. We all have scores that everyone loves but just don't do it for us. Your opinion shouldn't change because someone tells you "oh but listen to this bit and that part, it's just so magnificent".

[Henry B 49]

I normally don't rely on watching the movies in order to enhance my enjoyment of a score, but in the case Memoirs, the music is so promenient in the movie, so much in the foreground, carrying entire sequences (As the Water and the Chairman's Waltz come to mind), that I think if you watch the movie, you might gain some additional apreciation for this score.

Yes. It's one of the most musically driven movies I've seen in some time. Too bad the rest of it kinda sucks...

[indy4 152]

You know, it's all right not to like it, if you've given it several chances and you still need advice to "learn to love it" maybe you just don't like it all that much. We all have scores that everyone loves but just don't do it for us. Your opinion shouldn't change because someone tells you "oh but listen to this bit and that part, it's just so magnificent".

Yes, I realize that, but this score is so beloved by so many I thought I should at least give it another shot, as I've got nothing to lose. And my opinion of scores have been changed in the past by hearing what others have to say about something. For instance, all I hear in "The Rooftops of the Hanamachi" is random percussion hits. I know there's more to the cue than that, as with Williams there always is (especially for a score that he is so enthusiastic about), but I don't know what. I think if I did I may be able to find enjoyement in the cue, or at least interest.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,476]

Two pieces of music I really wanted after seeing the movie were the "Becoming A Geisha" montage and the ending music ("Confluence"). Frickin' awesome. It isn't by any means a favorite work by JW (frankly I don't care what his favorites are), but I liked it enough to buy the CD. Part of the Chairman's Waltz reminds me of John Barry's King Kong score.

[Henry B 49]

You know, it's all right not to like it, if you've given it several chances and you still need advice to "learn to love it" maybe you just don't like it all that much. We all have scores that everyone loves but just don't do it for us. Your opinion shouldn't change because someone tells you "oh but listen to this bit and that part, it's just so magnificent".

Yes, I realize that, but this score is so beloved by so many I thought I should at least give it another shot, as I've got nothing to lose. And my opinion of scores have been changed in the past by hearing what others have to say about something. For instance, all I hear in "The Rooftops of the Hanamachi" is random percussion hits. I know there's more to the cue than that, as with Williams there always is (especially for a score that he is so enthusiastic about), but I don't know what. I think if I did I may be able to find enjoyement in the cue, or at least interest.

You could think of it as... uh... a musical realization of Sayuri's footsteps as she prowls the rooftops. (Personally I think it's an interesting suspense cue.)

[indy4 152]

You know, it's all right not to like it, if you've given it several chances and you still need advice to "learn to love it" maybe you just don't like it all that much. We all have scores that everyone loves but just don't do it for us. Your opinion shouldn't change because someone tells you "oh but listen to this bit and that part, it's just so magnificent".

Yes, I realize that, but this score is so beloved by so many I thought I should at least give it another shot, as I've got nothing to lose. And my opinion of scores have been changed in the past by hearing what others have to say about something. For instance, all I hear in "The Rooftops of the Hanamachi" is random percussion hits. I know there's more to the cue than that, as with Williams there always is (especially for a score that he is so enthusiastic about), but I don't know what. I think if I did I may be able to find enjoyement in the cue, or at least interest.

You could think of it as... uh... a musical realization of Sayuri's footsteps as she prowls the rooftops. (Personally I think it's an interesting suspense cue.)

Wait...do you mean mickey mousing? Each drum beat accents her steps on the roof? Or do you mean "footsteps" in a less literal sense?

[Henry B 49]

I was kidding.

[John Crichton 4]

Didn't Koray teach us all that you only listen to a score once and you either like or don't and never look back?

[indy4 152]

I was kidding.

Ah, I see.

[Bowie 45]

For instance, all I hear in "The Rooftops of the Hanamachi" is random percussion hits. I know there's more to the cue than that, as with Williams there always is (especially for a score that he is so enthusiastic about), but I don't know what. I think if I did I may be able to find enjoyement in the cue, or at least interest.

Are you kidding me? I fucking hate that cue, along with Fire Scene & The Coming of War and a bunch of others. But the majority of the tracks, as you yourself said, are pretty good or excellent. Do you really need to love every track to love a score? I don't. Memoirs is right up there, but parts of it are certainly fucking boring.

I think a proper listening order is essential -- just turn it up loud and you'll be captivated:

01. Sayuri's Theme (the main theme)

02. A Dream Discarded (the secondary theme)

03. Going to School (the secondary theme)

04. The Chairman's Waltz (the chairman's theme)

05. Becoming a Geisha (main theme and secondary theme)

06. Destiny's Path

07. The Garden Meeting (chairman's theme and main theme)

08. Brush on Silk (awesome cue)

09. Chiyo's Prayer (main theme)

10. As the Water... (beautiful)

11. Confluence (main theme and secondary theme)

12. Sayuri's Theme & End Credits (main theme and secondary theme)

Bonus Cues

13. The Journey to the Hanamachi

14. The Rooftops of the Hanamachi

15. Finding Satsu

16. Dr. Crab's Prize

17. A New Name... A New Life

18. The Fire Scene & The Coming of War

[Henry B 49]

You sure do fucking hate a lot of things, eh?

[Bowie 45]

You sure do fucking hate a lot of things, eh?

Despite what I say or how I say it, no, I don't hate anything.

[indy4 152]

Two pieces of music I really wanted after seeing the movie were the "Becoming A Geisha" montage and the ending music ("Confluence"). Frickin' awesome. It isn't by any means a favorite work by JW (frankly I don't care what his favorites are), but I liked it enough to buy the CD. Part of the Chairman's Waltz reminds me of John Barry's King Kong score.

Those two cues are indeed great.

For instance, all I hear in "The Rooftops of the Hanamachi" is random percussion hits. I know there's more to the cue than that, as with Williams there always is (especially for a score that he is so enthusiastic about), but I don't know what. I think if I did I may be able to find enjoyement in the cue, or at least interest.

Are you kidding me? I fucking hate that cue, along with Fire Scene & The Coming of War and a bunch of others. But the majority of the tracks, as you yourself said, are pretty good or excellent. Do you really need to love every track to love a score? I don't. Memoirs is right up there, but parts of it are certainly fucking boring.

Haha, thanks, but I was talking more about the score as one listening experience rather than a bunch of cues. As I said in the first post, on a cue to cue basis I like the score a lot, but I find that often the most satisfying listening experience comes from putting those cues together to compose one piece of work, and when I do that with Geisha I'm not getting much.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I normally don't rely on watching the movies in order to enhance my enjoyment of a score, but in the case Memoirs, the music is so promenient in the movie, so much in the foreground, carrying entire sequences (As the Water and the Chairman's Waltz come to mind), that I think if you watch the movie, you might gain some additional apreciation for this score.

Yes. It's one of the most musically driven movies I've seen in some time. Too bad the rest of it kinda sucks...

Well, it looks absolutely gorgeous

[crocodile 6,294]

Perhaps we need Incanus on this one.

Karol

[Incanus 5,519]

Memoirs of a Geisha is one of Williams' more recent master works. It also displays very mature writing from Williams being less hummable and more introspective than most of his blockbuster scores. From what I gather from the interviews Williams studied more the Japanese instruments than he did the Japanese music for this score, how would these instruments enhance and blend with the Western orchestra, give a certain ethnic colouring but not dominate it. There is a lot of atmosphere and ethnical colouring on the soundtrack to emphasize the locale, time and place but to make it accessible to the audiences it is presented in Western orchestral idiom with the cello taking the center stage.

Williams was impressed with the book and immediately thought of cello to portray the character of Sayuri, of course not knowing that he would be scoring the film at any point. He knew that Spielberg had acquired the rights to the novel so there was an inkling of it being made into a film. Williams also thought of Yo-Yo Ma from the beginning, actually sending the book to him and talking to him about the possibility of scoring the film and the idea of cello. And later when the film was announced Williams did what by his own words he has done never before: He actively sought to score the film, asked for the assignment. This certainly shows how inspired and impressed Williams was by the story.

The movie is very colourful and theatrical portrayal of Japanese culture, more an illusion than real. In other words it is pure Hollywood. The music has a large role in it, almost another character in the storytelling, part of the drama. The film has several what could be called musical numbers, Becoming a Geisha the most prominent, so the music is allowed to shine all the way through.

But Williams' music even though it has a large part in the film, is not bombastic or overly lush. I think more than anything it is introspective and subtle, lyrical and delicate with a lot of underlying subtext both psychological and poetic.

Most of all it is a portrayal of a society and culture. Hence it is restrained and subtle. I can't say to be an expert on Japanese culture and customs but I know that they are a reserved people and put a lot of emphasis on public appearance and honor. Outbursts of big emotions is not part of their culture in public. I think the music follows this idea throughout. There is emotion in it but it is not in Hollywood proportions. You have to read it more carefully. Often the emotion is tied to the instrumental solos, carrying all the unsaid and unexpressed in their timbre and voice. Only at the end of the movie the music blooms to a bigger emotion on the track Confluence where both of Sayuri's themes are performed in a grand manner offering an emotional closure as Sayuri and the Chairman are finally reunited, expressing their true feelings openly.

Williams had as a starting point the cello as the voice of Sayuri's character. Cello that has a soulful and warm sound is indeed ideal to portray this young woman's journey through life and Yo-Yo Ma's expertise and artistry brings her alive in music in a way I do not think would have been possible with any other artist. The counterpoint to Sayuri's cello is the violin played to perfection by Itzhak Perlman that portrays the character of the Chairman. Both artists elevate the music with their playing immensely. These are really the two main components of the score. I guess oboe can be added to this instrumental group as it has a prominent role in the music as well being a lyrical and ruminating, showing perhaps Williams' attempt to capture some of those qualities he sees in Japanese culture.

Thematically as instrumentally the music is built on Sayuri's theme and Chairman's theme. Sayuri has 2 different themes associated with her: Chiyo's theme, the musical identification of the young girl before she becomes a geisha, that could be called the real Sayuri's theme depiction of the real person under the guise of the geisha (Journey to the Hanamachi 2;41-3;13, Confluence and finally A Dream Discarded which is a sort of deconstruction of the theme on cello. End Credits contains subtle interpolation of this theme in flute and chimes 1;36-1;53), and then there is the more prominent Sayuri's theme, the actual musical depiction of the geisha that can be heard throughout the soundtrack. Both themes are lyrical, Chiyo's music showing more fragile image of a young girl than Sayuri's theme that is elegant and mature and no less soulful. Cello is omnipresent in scenes involving Sayuri and many tracks containing cello solos involve her and inform us of her state of mind with beautiful and lyrical solo lines.

The Chairman's Waltz is heavily European, even Slavonic in its style and contains a clear melodic line with very little decorative violin work that it might have gotten if not for the character's nature. The Chairman is reserved and nearly paternal at first in his encounters with Chiyo so the music is reserved, elegant, cultured, hinting of Western civilization as if to show how the Japanese of that day and age might have admired the European culture. It could be seen to depict Chiyo's idolized view of the Chairman as a citizen of the world, sophisticated and cultured. And as the music is strongly melancholic, described by Williams as Valse Triste, it could also hint at Chiyo's sadness for noticing how the Chairman does not return her affection (even if that is not the truth but this man does not show it publicly). Williams transforms this theme into an introspective elegy for solo oboe, harp and two celli in As the Water... where the waltz time is kept by the pizzicato celli and after the oboe solo the duo plays a deconstructed version of the waltz. This music marks both the passage of time in the film as well as Sayuri's sorrow of being separated from the Chairman.

These two character portrayals are accompanied by different musical devices and shorter motifs that are associated with fate and destiny referenced clearly in the film. They take their inspiration from water, also a prominent symbol in the film, a river, flow of destiny and the current of fate. There is a constant forward momentum in the music depicting the irrevocable flow of both time and fate of Sayuri/Chiyo or they are used in important moments in the story to note the changes of fate. This idea of water or flow of water/destiny can be heard in the music throughout from the swaying strings accompanying Sayuri's theme to the End Credits.

Most prominent of these motifs is heard on the track Chiyo's Prayer 0;32-> in the accompanying strings, 3;03-> on solo cello, Finding Satsu 2;31-2;52 and Fire Scene and the Coming of War 4;31-> accompanying the Chairman's theme. There is the constant up and down motion, like a current that is carrying the main character forward usually played by strings.

Another motif associated with fate appears in Finding Satsu 0;05-0;40, and again in A New Name...A New Life 0;10-0;34 in a fuller guise and again at the end of the track 2;31-2;54. Even the Rooftops of Hanamachi contains a subtle quote of this motif as Sayuri tries to escape over the rooftops and her destiny is in danger (small portion of the motif is quoted 3;03-3;15).

More of a self contained continuation of this water/destiny idea is the Destiny's Path track with the constant motion in the music without major thematic material.

Williams also composed a good amount of set piece material for different scenes that enhances more the mood and ethnic flavour than adds to the thematic palette. Going to School, Brush On Silk, Dr. Crab's Prize, Rooftops of Hanamachi all add more authentic Japanese instruments to the orchestral palette and enhance the mood of the scenes. They add colour and variety to the music and give it a more Japanese flavour.

This is a score you have to pay attention to. It is not something you can fully appreciate if you do not concentrate on it. You have to find the emotional core of this score from the soloist performances which are in center of this music rather than from bold and big performances of the themes. As I said it is an introspective score but it is also an extremely beautiful score worth the time you invest in it.

[Bowie 45]

Don't forget Going to School is full of Chiyo's Theme, although spun out as though her mind is learning new things.

Also the driving force behind Becoming a Geisha is of course the descending motive heard in Chairman's Waltz, but it is chained together with more frequency and imperative in the former.

[Incanus 5,519]

Don't forget Going to School is full of Chiyo's Theme, although spun out as though her mind is learning new things.

Also the driving force behind Becoming a Geisha is of course the descending motive heard in Chairman's Waltz, but it is chained together with more frequency and imperative in the former.

Great observations Bowie! The notion of Sayuri's theme and the Waltz connection is quite natural. Also Williams described the long percussion solo in the middle of Becoming a Geisha almost as a ceremonial sacrifice music, this young girl being transformed into another being, giving her persona away to become another.

[Bowie 45]

Don't forget Going to School is full of Chiyo's Theme, although spun out as though her mind is learning new things.

Also the driving force behind Becoming a Geisha is of course the descending motive heard in Chairman's Waltz, but it is chained together with more frequency and imperative in the former.

Great observations Bowie! The notion of Sayuri's theme and the Waltz connection is quite natural. Also Williams described the long percussion solo in the middle of Becoming a Geisha almost as a ceremonial sacrifice music, this young girl being transformed into another being, giving her persona away to become another.

(Well I meant the descending harp notes at 0:08-12 in Becoming a Geisha, which run cyclically underneath the whole first half of the cue, are an identical quote of the descending notes at 0:08-0:15 of The Chairman's Waltz, but in a higher register with celeste.)

And yeah, same idea of "giving away" herself can be heard with a mournful Shakuhachi solo in Dr. Crab's Prize

[Incanus 5,519]

Don't forget Going to School is full of Chiyo's Theme, although spun out as though her mind is learning new things.

Also the driving force behind Becoming a Geisha is of course the descending motive heard in Chairman's Waltz, but it is chained together with more frequency and imperative in the former.

Great observations Bowie! The notion of Sayuri's theme and the Waltz connection is quite natural. Also Williams described the long percussion solo in the middle of Becoming a Geisha almost as a ceremonial sacrifice music, this young girl being transformed into another being, giving her persona away to become another.

(Well I meant the descending harp notes at 0:08-12 in Becoming a Geisha, which run cyclically underneath the whole first half of the cue, are an identical quote of the descending notes at 0:08-0:15 of The Chairman's Waltz, but in a higher register with celeste.)

And yeah, same idea of "giving away" herself can be heard with a mournful Shakuhachi solo in Dr. Crab's Prize

As I said before a great find. I think I have been subliminally aware of this thematic connection in Becoming A Geisha but once you mentioned it with time stamps and all, it becomes clear.

And yes Dr. Crab's Prize is without a doubt the most atmospheric cue from Williams in a long while. 2 minute long Shakuhachi solo is about as close to authentic Japanese music he has written for this score. In a right state of mind it sounds fine, sometimes it just drifts over your senses and is over before you know it. Creates a perfect atmosphere for writing haikus

[indy4 152]

Wow, thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for.

[Hlao-roo 388]

Incanus is the new Frank Lehman -- and that's just about the highest praise I can give anyone around here.

[Romão 1,931]

Great thread, with particularly great contributions by Mikko (as usual, one of our most insightful members) and Bowie. Very interesting reading indeed

[Incanus 5,519]

Thank you guys

To add a little note of recommendation, the Williams/Yo-Yo Ma duets for piano and cello are definitely worth seeking. Sayuri's theme in particular is fleshed out to a longer suite containing both interplay between Chiyo and Sayuri melody forming even more satisfying combination than on any of the tracks on the album. This version has been orchestrated for a full symphony orchestra and cello and to my knowledge has been played in several concerts. It is very typical for Williams to compose these fuller and more rounded concert versions after the film has come out. Most recent example is the KotCS with the absolutely riveting concert version Irina's theme that JW performed at Tanglewood. Going to School for piano and cello is also an eye opener with a lovely longer more virtuoso melody for the cello. And Williams despite his modesty handles piano like an expert. A Dream Discarded is a sligthly longer than the version on the soundtrack album but also for solo cello. The interview that comes with the tracks reveals how much Williams and Ma really enjoyed this kind of intimate music making, Williams even saying that this is the closest equivalent of inviting the listener for dinner with them at home (Ma naturally says he is a lousy cook so this is actually for the best). There are some nuggets of interesting information in the interview in the midst of the friendly complements both artists share with each other constantly.

[Jacob 0]

And these are only available on iTunes?

Great posts, by the way.

[AC1 3,565]

I've listened to the score several times now, but like all meditative music, this one too strikes me as musical wallpaper. It's a nice stream of a certain mood but I really can't call it interesting. Like Incanus said, Japanese people don't show their emotions. Perhaps it was better for Williams to show them, just like Sakamoto did with The Last Emperor.

Alex

[Ollie 859]

And these are only available on iTunes?

Great posts, by the way.

The Yo-Yo Ma / Williams duet, yes.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Didn't Koray teach us all that you only listen to a score once and you either like or don't and never look back?

I never said never look back, but yes. You shouldn't have to listen to a score 10 times to like it. What's going to be different on the 10th listen that wasn't there on the first 9? It's the same music over and over, so you're pretty much conditioning yourself to like it.

[AC1 3,565]

Didn't Koray teach us all that you only listen to a score once and you either like or don't and never look back?

I never said never look back, but yes. You shouldn't have to listen to a score 10 times to like it. What's going to be different on the 10th listen that wasn't there on the first 9? It's the same music over and over, so you're pretty much conditioning yourself to like it.

Your brain has to familiarize itself before you can really connect to a certain piece of music. That's why most of us need several listens. Whenever I like an album during the first listen, chances are I will get tired of it very soon.

Of course, "10 times" is an awful lot (but not impossible, I think).

Alex

[Incanus 5,519]

Didn't Koray teach us all that you only listen to a score once and you either like or don't and never look back?

I never said never look back, but yes. You shouldn't have to listen to a score 10 times to like it. What's going to be different on the 10th listen that wasn't there on the first 9? It's the same music over and over, so you're pretty much conditioning yourself to like it.

Well if there is no appeal at all in the music to begin with then the further listenings might be wasted but some music really demands more listens than the first few to open to you fully. I would not call it a conditioning process. It is not an exercise to force yourself to like it, it is learning about the music, analysing and understanding it. And of course you pick up details and focus on different aspects during different listens. Your perception after a first listen is very rudimentary. So it is not a "like it instantly or leave it" situation, not for me at least. Unless I find the music completely against my tastes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Usually if an album clicks with me, it's rarely before my third or fourth listen.I still listen to Geisha on accasion.

It's very good, I suppose....

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I love it when I love something instantly. That's when I know it's special, at least to me. But If I don't even remotely like or enjoy something after 2 full listens, I tend to never listen to it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Sounds like a very bad thing to me.

You seem to crave instant satisfaction. What about slowly discovering something beautiful?

[AC1 3,565]

Usually if an album clicks with me, it's rarely before my third or fourth listen.

That's perfectly normal. It also depends on how complex the music is.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I always give a score a couple of listens before discarding it. Several recent scores have needed time to sink in - Terminator Salvation, HBP.

I have about 6 tracks from Geisha but don't listen to them very often. Not a film that appeals to me, and as usual, my interest in the music follows suit.

[Romão 1,931]

I love it when I love something instantly. That's when I know it's special, at least to me. But If I don't even remotely like or enjoy something after 2 full listens, I tend to never listen to it.

Believe me, it really is your loss.

I'll give you a flagrant example of a score that took quite a few listens to click, but when it did, it became one of my all time favorites: Sleepers.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

It may seem like a loss to you, but to me, more listens isn't going to change anything.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

I feel nothing but pity for you!

[Bowie 45]

I think some of you are forgetting that we all had to become accustomed to the different forms of music we enjoy to begin with. I'd question anyone who didn't have to spend their first 10-20 years of life learning what an orchestra was and what it sounded like and what good and bad melodies sound like before appreciating even the most instant of film scores.

Even those who are "new" to film scores and instantly like certain music still had to go through a similar psychoacoustic evolution, whether conscious or not.

Watching a documentary on the making of the Geisha score and listening to it a few extra times (in the proper order) is NOT that much, in order to open up the potentials of that style of music to your ears for the rest of your life.

[AC1 3,565]

It may seem like a loss to you, but to me, more listens isn't going to change anything.

This could explain why some people love Zimmer. A standard brain should have no difficulty to familiarize itself with his musical patterns.

[Henry B 49]

It may seem like a loss to you, but to me, more listens isn't going to change anything.

The fact that you're a human being suggests otherwise. Give your subconscious a chance.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

This could explain why some people love Zimmer. A standard brain should have no difficulty to familiarize itself with his musical patterns.

Most MV music reveal all their potential first time round.

Which is actually why it's considered such effective film music.

[Bowie 45]

Effective film music for films that reveal their potential first time round.

[Jacob 0]

What's going to be different on the 10th listen that wasn't there on the first 9?

The attention you give it. Possibly. And your mood. Life experiences can change how you interpret things, also. Even the time of year can affect your overall enjoyment (Home Alone is most effective from about November to January, I find).

I don't give 100% full attention to every second of every cue of every new (or old) score I listen to, every time. I listen to a lot in the background while I work and even great spine-tingling cues that have moved me in the past will gloss right over me because my concentration is elsewhere.

Granted, it doesn't take several intensive sessions to get a general sense of like or dislike but I'm not ready to dismiss anything because it doesn't initially knock my socks off.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Well when I first listen to something, I give it that full attention. I don't listen to music in the background while I'm doing something else because, like you said, a lot of it goes right over you.

[Diego 21]

I'm kinda in between, while there's a lot of stuff I didn't love when I first heard, like Revolver which now is my absolute favorite album of all time, I also think that after 3 or 4 chances if you still don't like it you should just move on. No matter what explanation someone can give like "The maestro did this and that and just listen to that part..." if by the 4th or 5th time you don't like it, nothing should change your mind and you're just forcing yourself to like something for no reason.