Bowie 45 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Brand new Muse song, United States of Eurasia (excerpt). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 we already dicussed that somewhere on this board. I think it is a coincidence. but if Mr. Baxter was able to sue Williams for "E.T." than Williams also can sue them for that.I was aticpating this new album/song very much but when I listened to it, I found out that I already have a Quenn Greatest Hits CD at home.... and that it sounds like 3 Queensongs at once is NO coincidence!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,306 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Brand new Muse song, United States of Eurasia (excerpt).Amazing! This is not a coincidence! Who's the composer that stole it from Williams?! It's even in the same key!Alex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neimoidian 14 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think JW should be proud that somebody uses his melody to write a rock song. It only proves he is not outdated after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Now we know what Johnny boy has been doing lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. 10 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Definite similarities, definitely not material for sueing.(But good to be reminded of how great this track from Indy 2 is:)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think it's just coincidence. The Muse track has an Indian sound to it, and it's possible that Williams tried to simulate an Indian sound in his track, for a movie set in India, without sounding as overtly Indian. It still sounds Western. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think JW should be proud that somebody uses his melody to write a rock song. It only proves he is not outdated after all.A lot of pop/hip hop songs sample scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,306 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 ... and it's possible that Williams tried to simulate an Indian sound in his track ... No, Wojo. If that was the idea, then we would've heard it.Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!If your intent is to find direct influence in the world, eventually you will find something you can point a finger at.If that little snippet is all you listen to, sure, all you Williams fanboys can cry foul that they stole the passage from Williams. The band says they took their influences from European and Asian music, and it's hard to not think of the song as being epically Queen-like. The short piece quoted above is the second statement of a particular melody in this song. The first statement of the theme drops back down into the original key, and it's the second statement that jumps into a higher key that sounds Indian in nature. I don't hear evidence of any more influence than if you would suggest that Ray Charles was so obviously influenced by Beethoven just because they both played piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,306 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!If your intent is to find direct influence in the world, eventually you will find something you can point a finger at.Well, I don't need to be slapped in the face with an exact copy before I can hear an influence. This one is already too obvious to leave any doubt. If I was the composer of the Eurasia track, I would not release it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Yes Williams used a cetain Indian tonal scale - I forgot which one it has a certain name, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!If your intent is to find direct influence in the world, eventually you will find something you can point a finger at.Well, I don't need to be slapped in the face with an exact copy before I can hear an influence. This one is already too obvious to leave any doubt. If I was the composer of the Eurasia track, I would not release it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB1OkuN8vdUListen to the whole song before you start rubbing your face from the ten second "slap" that Bowie posted. Do you expect Paramount and all of Soundtrack Fanboy Nation to rise up in protest against this band for plagiarizing the great John Williams for a meager three or four notes? You're even crazier than I first thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Personally, this means Matthew Bellamy has great musical taste He said in an interview with BBC that the new album has lots of influences from classical and orchestral music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,306 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Yes Williams used a cetain Indian tonal scale - I forgot which one it has a certain name,No! Williams used a normal Western scale. Indian tone scales are entirely different with much smaller intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Brand new Muse song, United States of Eurasia (excerpt).How did you miss the entire thread we have about this?http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17955Merge time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,053 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I feel a merge coming...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Yes Williams used a cetain Indian tonal scale - I forgot which one it has a certain name,No! Williams used a normal Western scale. Indian tone scales are entirely different with much smaller intervals.not true speaking of Noerthern Indian Classical Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,053 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 It's a coincidence, it's not scientific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Ha ha, I've heard that record a few times lately and never noticed the nod to ToD. Which is what I think it is. The snares say it all and I think its quite deliberate, consciously or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,090 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I was aticpating this new album/song very much but when I listened to it, I found out that I already have a Quenn Greatest Hits CD at home.... and that it sounds like 3 Queensongs at once is NO coincidence!!I loved the Queen nods on Black Holes and Revelations, so I'm still looking forward to the new album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I feel a merge coming......You mean V'Ger wants to physically join with a human? Is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Yes Williams used a cetain Indian tonal scale - I forgot which one it has a certain name,No! Williams used a normal Western scale. Indian tone scales are entirely different with much smaller intervals.not true speaking of Noerthern Indian Classical MusicYes and no...In Carnathic (North Indian) musical traditions, and other Indian and Persian classical traditions post the introduction of the harmonium from the Western world, Western tempered tonalities (mathematically "fixed" intervals) and more floating micro-tonally tinged tonalities have co-existed. But generally, in most classical traditions, be they eastern or western, there is a tendency to standardize tonalities and the elements that constitute them.North Indian classical music operates thusly with a whole range of "melakhartas", or scales (which are used to build ragas). But micro-tonal inflections are still used to add character and expression to these tonalities.Williams doesn't employ a specific "Indian scale" as such, but rather combines several "exoticisms": The main melody is what one might call "Phrygian dominant maj6", which in the key of C would be C,Db,E,F,G,A,Bb. This is then harmonized in a way that emphasises more mixolydian aspects of the tune, with the very "un-Indian" bVII-I concluding cadence (Bb-C, adding a D-natural to the otherwise Db-heavy harmonic terrain). The B-motif is all octatonic writing (C,Db,Eb,F#,G,A,Bb), with occasional use of free triadic harmonic writing (meaning non-modal!). There is also an abundance of quartal and quintal harmonic writing (very prominent in the introductory and concluding bars).Finally, in forensic musicology, this pop-song could be deemed a case of plagiarism. The rule is as follows: It is possible to sue if a certain musical passage has the same intervallic and rhythmic structure for more than five notes.It is very obvious that this is based on Williams's piece, which is a widely-known piece of music in a film that has been assimilated into pop-culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI 0 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Well done, Marcus old chap (clap clap)In most cases of music suing, it comes from someone who is unknown and trying to capitalize on anothers success, Michael Jackson for example, was the target of many a copyright law suit over the years, none of which were successful.It would not be expediant for one of Williams stature to sue anyone, although he could over this piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Do you expect Paramount and all of Soundtrack Fanboy Nation to rise up in protest against this band for plagiarizing the great John Williams for a meager three or four notes? You're even crazier than I first thought.Actually it's 8 notes. Not only pitches, but rhythm and harmony as well. That's a little more than just pinching a few notes. Intentional or not it's pretty obvious, and I have to agree with Alex, I would have a hard time releasing this knowing it was so similar to another composer's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,090 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 So apparently the album has been out here since Friday... didn't realise it would be available until next week. I placed an Amazon order today, so I should have it Tuesday or Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean1700 4 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Speaking of which......24 cans of beer in a slab/24 hours in a day. Coincidence???? Hmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 Brand new Muse song, United States of Eurasia (excerpt).How did you miss the entire thread we have about this?http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17955Merge time!Pretty easy really considering pure logic dictated that I didn't need to search for the pre-existence of this new find. But sure enough there are Muse fans on this board. And I'm sure many people missed this the first time because of the unapparent title. But, still, merge away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I have deleted what I wrote here because apparently I am not allowed to think against the grain at this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 What's certain is that Williams himself would be far too humble to engage in litigious action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Williams once was asked: "Does it bother you that people try to copy your music sometimes?" "No not atall."I remeber reading this maybe 6 years ago and think to myself, what a cool guy. But maybe he was thinking more of style than melody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis 243 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Wojo, just accept it, it's plagiarism. But a cool one!And I don't think Williams would sue the band for this.It's a game of give and take.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,090 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 As much plagiarism as Holiday Flight.I wasn't aware that the album already came out here last Friday. And I didn't have time to go to the stores since. I placed an Amazon order on Saturday, it should arrive tomorrow or on Wednesday - I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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