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Coincidence?


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we already dicussed that somewhere on this board. I think it is a coincidence. but if Mr. Baxter was able to sue Williams for "E.T." than Williams also can sue them for that.

I was aticpating this new album/song very much but when I listened to it, I found out that I already have a Quenn Greatest Hits CD at home.... and that it sounds like 3 Queensongs at once is NO coincidence!!

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I think it's just coincidence. The Muse track has an Indian sound to it, and it's possible that Williams tried to simulate an Indian sound in his track, for a movie set in India, without sounding as overtly Indian. It still sounds Western.

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... and it's possible that Williams tried to simulate an Indian sound in his track ...

No, Wojo. If that was the idea, then we would've heard it.

Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!

Alex

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Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!

If your intent is to find direct influence in the world, eventually you will find something you can point a finger at.

If that little snippet is all you listen to, sure, all you Williams fanboys can cry foul that they stole the passage from Williams. The band says they took their influences from European and Asian music, and it's hard to not think of the song as being epically Queen-like. The short piece quoted above is the second statement of a particular melody in this song. The first statement of the theme drops back down into the original key, and it's the second statement that jumps into a higher key that sounds Indian in nature. I don't hear evidence of any more influence than if you would suggest that Ray Charles was so obviously influenced by Beethoven just because they both played piano.

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Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!

If your intent is to find direct influence in the world, eventually you will find something you can point a finger at.

Well, I don't need to be slapped in the face with an exact copy before I can hear an influence. This one is already too obvious to leave any doubt. If I was the composer of the Eurasia track, I would not release it.

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Is it so difficult to imagine that the composer is somewhat influenced by Williams? Especially after hearing this track?!

If your intent is to find direct influence in the world, eventually you will find something you can point a finger at.

Well, I don't need to be slapped in the face with an exact copy before I can hear an influence. This one is already too obvious to leave any doubt. If I was the composer of the Eurasia track, I would not release it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB1OkuN8vdU

Listen to the whole song before you start rubbing your face from the ten second "slap" that Bowie posted. Do you expect Paramount and all of Soundtrack Fanboy Nation to rise up in protest against this band for plagiarizing the great John Williams for a meager three or four notes? You're even crazier than I first thought.

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Yes Williams used a cetain Indian tonal scale - I forgot which one it has a certain name,

No! Williams used a normal Western scale. Indian tone scales are entirely different with much smaller intervals.

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Yes Williams used a cetain Indian tonal scale - I forgot which one it has a certain name,

No! Williams used a normal Western scale. Indian tone scales are entirely different with much smaller intervals.

not true speaking of Noerthern Indian Classical Music

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I was aticpating this new album/song very much but when I listened to it, I found out that I already have a Quenn Greatest Hits CD at home.... and that it sounds like 3 Queensongs at once is NO coincidence!!

I loved the Queen nods on Black Holes and Revelations, so I'm still looking forward to the new album.

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Yes Williams used a cetain Indian tonal scale - I forgot which one it has a certain name,

No! Williams used a normal Western scale. Indian tone scales are entirely different with much smaller intervals.

not true speaking of Noerthern Indian Classical Music

Yes and no...

In Carnathic (North Indian) musical traditions, and other Indian and Persian classical traditions post the introduction of the harmonium from the Western world, Western tempered tonalities (mathematically "fixed" intervals) and more floating micro-tonally tinged tonalities have co-existed. But generally, in most classical traditions, be they eastern or western, there is a tendency to standardize tonalities and the elements that constitute them.

North Indian classical music operates thusly with a whole range of "melakhartas", or scales (which are used to build ragas). But micro-tonal inflections are still used to add character and expression to these tonalities.

Williams doesn't employ a specific "Indian scale" as such, but rather combines several "exoticisms": The main melody is what one might call "Phrygian dominant maj6", which in the key of C would be C,Db,E,F,G,A,Bb. This is then harmonized in a way that emphasises more mixolydian aspects of the tune, with the very "un-Indian" bVII-I concluding cadence (Bb-C, adding a D-natural to the otherwise Db-heavy harmonic terrain). The B-motif is all octatonic writing (C,Db,Eb,F#,G,A,Bb), with occasional use of free triadic harmonic writing (meaning non-modal!). There is also an abundance of quartal and quintal harmonic writing (very prominent in the introductory and concluding bars).

Finally, in forensic musicology, this pop-song could be deemed a case of plagiarism. The rule is as follows: It is possible to sue if a certain musical passage has the same intervallic and rhythmic structure for more than five notes.

It is very obvious that this is based on Williams's piece, which is a widely-known piece of music in a film that has been assimilated into pop-culture.

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Well done, Marcus old chap (clap clap)

In most cases of music suing, it comes from someone who is unknown and trying to capitalize on anothers success, Michael Jackson for example, was the target of many a copyright law suit over the years, none of which were successful.

It would not be expediant for one of Williams stature to sue anyone, although he could over this piece.

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Do you expect Paramount and all of Soundtrack Fanboy Nation to rise up in protest against this band for plagiarizing the great John Williams for a meager three or four notes? You're even crazier than I first thought.

Actually it's 8 notes. Not only pitches, but rhythm and harmony as well. That's a little more than just pinching a few notes. Intentional or not it's pretty obvious, and I have to agree with Alex, I would have a hard time releasing this knowing it was so similar to another composer's work.

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So apparently the album has been out here since Friday... didn't realise it would be available until next week. I placed an Amazon order today, so I should have it Tuesday or Wednesday.

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Brand new Muse song, United States of Eurasia (excerpt).

How did you miss the entire thread we have about this?

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17955

Merge time!

Pretty easy really considering pure logic dictated that I didn't need to search for the pre-existence of this new find. But sure enough there are Muse fans on this board. And I'm sure many people missed this the first time because of the unapparent title. But, still, merge away!

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Williams once was asked: "Does it bother you that people try to copy your music sometimes?"

"No not atall."

I remeber reading this maybe 6 years ago and think to myself, what a cool guy. But maybe he was thinking more of style than melody.

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As much plagiarism as Holiday Flight.

I wasn't aware that the album already came out here last Friday. And I didn't have time to go to the stores since. I placed an Amazon order on Saturday, it should arrive tomorrow or on Wednesday - I hope.

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