Damien F 1,742 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Hi, I've just seen the 3D re-release of Toy Story. I could swear I heard a very brief quote of the Raider's march when Buzz is running away from a ball (like the scene in Raiders). That track from the soundtrack is on youtube. The march is quoted at 1:14 at a very fast tempo on horns/woodwinds high in their register.Check it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacck 23 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Pretty awesome if it was deliberate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Obvious reference. When Buzz falls out the window he does the Wilhelm scream. This was back in 1995 when Indiana Jones was still cool and the Wilhelm scream hadn't been used to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Cute. Considering that the entire scene is more or less an homage to Raiders of the Lost Ark (as noted), I feel comfortable in thinking that it is deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Hahahaha, I never noticed that before! Nicely done, Mr. Newman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 i think i had heard it mentioned somewhere already, though i had never heard it. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,666 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 It's very fast and subtle, but I too hope that it's deliberate.I wonder if composers do this just for personal satisfaction, because there's no way a casual filmgoer is going to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I wonder if composers do this just for personal satisfaction, because there's no way a casual filmgoer is going to notice.I'd imagine so. In a case like this, no sane composer would expect much of the audience to catch the quote, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to put it in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Yeah right, and 1:22 is a quote from Catch Me If You Can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I think it's a coincidence. If he really wanted to quote the Raiders March it would be more obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Why must an intentional quote be obvious? I once heard the Jurassic Park carnivore motif quoted rather subtly in a children's cartoon, but the context made it clear that it was intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I just don't believe that there's a debate this was a deliberate reference. I've realized it since I first saw the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 It's only like 3 notes in quick succession. Took me a couple listens to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,490 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'll make sure that I listen to it tonight. The rear-view mirror gag in Al's Toy Barn in "Toy Story 2" made me choke on my popcorn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 I just don't believe that there's a debate this was a deliberate reference. I've realized it since I first saw the movie.I agree. To my ears, it is clearly the raiders march and it's played exactly during the shot that's spoofing Raiders. It would be too much of a coincidence otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Sorry for not orgasming at this revelation. 'Meh' being the descriptive word.It was a blink and you miss it moment of the pointless variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I don't understand this place.You hear a 10-20 second snippet of The Children's Crusade sampled in an obscure European band's song as a bridge, and cry foul.Yet here's a potentially deliberate 3-note reference to a far more renown theme from a far more appreciated movie inserted into a very well-known American CGI children's movie, and everyone gets misty eyed with pride at having spotted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I don't understand this place.You hear a 10-20 second snippet of The Children's Crusade sampled in an obscure European band's song as a bridge, and cry foul.Yet here's a potentially deliberate 3-note reference to a far more renown theme from a far more appreciated movie inserted into a very well-known American CGI children's movie, and everyone gets misty eyed with pride at having spotted it.You were doing fine up until you described Muse as being obscure. They have been the exact opposite for a few years now, but you weren't to know, in your blissfully secluded fortress, I suppose, bless.Only a fool would mistake film music as being anything less than obscure. Especially in comparison to a hugely popular band like Muse. Not to 'big' them up or anything, but if you haven't heard of them yet then you must only give it time, after all - they're British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,158 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 You hear a 10-20 second snippet of The Children's Crusade sampled in an obscure European band's song as a bridge, and cry foul.You were doing fine up until you described Muse as being obscure. They have been the exact opposite for a few years now, but you weren't to know, in your secluded fortress, I suppose, bless.On the other hand, it's not sampled and it's less than seconds, but yes, I don't see why so many were outraged about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 While I wouldn't call them obscure, I don't think Muse are known globally around the world. They're probably less known than the Arctic Monkeys but more than Mogwai. Unless they've suddenly started appearing on The X-Factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 While I wouldn't call them obscure, I don't think Muse are known globally around the world.Of course not. But not being known in America certainly does not amount to obscurity, thank god.Wojo's remark pointed to that of typical American ignorance, as per usual.One would think I'm Muse' biggest fan, but to think that would be a massive fiction, since I honestly couldn't give a shit about their success, deserved though I suspect it to be. I'm just not one for flippant use of the English language; not unless one believes in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Sorry I have to agree with Wojo as far as Muse goes. With two kids and a wife nearly a decade younger I'm constantly bombarded with new music and current culture.Never heard of them until recently, which is odd because my wife and kids have a real wide range of music they listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Obscure in the USA. No big deal and certainly no need for apologies, Mark.Context is all that is needed, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Obviously I'm ignorant and a fool. You've certainly got me pegged as American. I can live with that.By "obscure" I mean "not Top 40." Contemporary corporate radio does a very bad job promoting lesser known artists -- and even if they do play their songs, they don't always say "and that was blank song by blank artist you just heard." So Muse is progressive rock, classical music and electronica, per Wikipedia. I love classical and I dabble in prog so I think I would like them -- except that I don't hear them on the radio, I don't buy their albums, nobody I know has ever loaned me a disc of their stuff on MP3, and I don't know any Brits in my area.So to me, yes, they are still obscure, even after fifteen years of touring, because to me, they are "relatively unknown." But to lash out at me for being an idiot for thinking they're obscure, well, then the word "obscure" itself is archaic because nobody can hop into a music studio, record an album, sell it and go on tour for two decades, and hear nary a peep from anyone about it. No band is unknown to everybody, but there is also no band that is known to everybody.Look, I'm a huge Genesis fan. Genesis is anything but obscure, but if you ask the average person (I don't care what country), they're going to say, "Oh, I love Invisible Touch, I Can't Dance, and Tonight, Tonight, Tonight", and if you're lucky, you'll get "Oh I love Misunderstanding and I Know What I Like." But start playing Supper's Ready or The Musical Box or The Knife, and that same person will probably say "turn that shit off."Quint, there's nothing wrong with saying a band is "obscure" if it's outside my circle of bands that I know. I'm a huge fan of The Clarks (recording since 1988) and have just started getting into Halestorm (together since mid 90s), but outside of PA, I wouldn't be surprised to hear you say they were also obscure, because they're not Top 40. The Killers were obscure for so long, too, until one song made it big, and now they're huge (and that one song is now overplayed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Glad you decided to retract your use of the word obscure. Maybe next time you will remember know how touchy peeps can be on these damn message board thingys.If I overhear a teenager say "who the hell is John Williams?!" I shall simply shake my head in quiet disappointment, because after all - I happen to know that JW is actually a MASSIVE star, right?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 The correct term is "clarify." I "clarified" my statement. I don't know what "retract" means in your language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Hey Quint,What's up your @$$ tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,034 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Obviously I'm ignorant and a fool. You've certainly got me pegged as American. I can live with that.Me too! I eat my hot dogs and apple pie with liquid ignorance drizzled all over them in the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hey Quint,What's up your @$$ tonight?Nothing, just remarks typical British ignorance displayed by certain people. and certainly no need for apologies, Mark.Good because there was no apology issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 You're all missing the point. Millions of people have listened to United States of Eurasia in the past few weeks. Everyone would have actively or passively heard the blatant quote (and it was not credited by the band in the liner notes etc).About 70 film music fans would have EVER heard that Raiders quote, let alone recognized it (and it didn't need to be credited because the context supposedly made it obvious, and it was only 3 notes). Film music for most people is absolutely inaudible.Still, I don't think this was deliberate, although I haven't seen the actual visuals so that might make the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 You're all missing the point. Millions of people have listened to United States of Eurasia in the past few weeks. Everyone would have actively or passively heard the blatant quote, and it was not acknowledged.Everyone has seen Temple of Doom or heard the score? Yeah... okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hey Quint,What's up your @$$ tonight?Nothing, just remarks typical British ignorance displayed by certain people. So what, is Quint now the defender of British culture and champion of her majesty in the online realms? I walk past five American flags outside and a big one hanging on the wall of my place of employment, not the union jack. If he'd like to recommend a good starting point for this band, I'd gladly walk over to FYE or Walmart and buy it. Walmart's corporate website lists a few, so it must not be too obscure for their shelves.If you'd like to look into my allegedly non-UK-friendly CD collection, you'd find the complete discographies to Pink Floyd, The Who, Genesis, Phil Collins, Led Zeppelin, and a respectable smattering of Sabbath, The Beatles, Bowie, Elton, and Frampton. Quick, Quint, count the American bands.You're all missing the point. Millions of people have listened to United States of Eurasia in the past few weeks. Everyone would have actively or passively heard the blatant quote (and it was not credited by the band in the liner notes etc).About 70 film music fans would have EVER heard that Raiders quote, let alone recognized it (and it didn't need to be credited because the context supposedly made it obvious, and it was only 3 notes). Film music for most people is absolutely inaudible.Still, I don't think this was deliberate, although I haven't seen the actual visuals so that might make the difference.We're not missing a point that you have not yet made. The US of Eurasia has absolutely nothing to do with John Williams or any Indiana Jones film. Why shouldn't they be allowed to sample a couple seconds of an OBSCURE melody for their song? I say obscure because you hear the Raiders march everywhere outside the movie. It's slammed in your face almost as much as the Star Wars music. But unless the fans of Muse also bought the Indy soundtrack box set, splurged for the Japanese import, or just plain downloaded it (I've done two of the three), the music to the Children's Crusade exists only in the movie. It's not referenced elsewhere in mainstream pop culture like the Raiders March. The same 70 music fans who recognized the Raiders snippet would be the only people properly armed with the recognition factor of this melody, making it ripe for the taking.In other words, if I want to use Goodyear tires to sell Firestone tires, there's a problem. But if I want to use Goodyear tires to sell Colgate toothpaste...I don't see a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I need to go back and watch Toy Story, it has been awhile.I do remember noticing the nod to Raiders but it wasn't something to get all excited about. Homages happen quite a bit and at times the music may follow suit.One day I was watching Cartoon Network and they were running some recently made Tom & Jerry cartoon movies, and one was about pirates.During a scene there was a short little piano ditty that was the first 5 or 6 notes of POTC theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Will a theater near you be showing Toy Story 1 and 2 in 3D? I'm forced to ask...why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 You're all missing the point. Millions of people have listened to United States of Eurasia in the past few weeks. Everyone would have actively or passively heard the blatant quote, and it was not acknowledged.Everyone has seen Temple of Doom or heard the score? Yeah... okay.When did I say people need to have heard the Temple of Doom score to have "heard the quote"? I didn't say millions of people recognized the quote, I simply said millions of people (since the Muse album's release) have HEARD the music. It's not background music, it's right there in front of your nose for millions of people to hear.The Raiders quote *is* background music, and almost nobody, I should think, has EVER heard it -- LET ALONE recognize it (which is not what I'm talking about). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Will a theater near you be showing Toy Story 1 and 2 in 3D? I'm forced to ask...why?I'm sure one them is but I see no sense in wasting any money, especially since I have the DVDs.When Up was playing they had 3-D showings but I didn't feel like paying the extra $10.00 per person just to see a film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI 0 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 If you'd like to look into my allegedly non-UK-friendly CD collection, you'd find the complete discographies to Pink Floyd, The Who, Genesis, Phil Collins, Led Zeppelin, and a respectable smattering of Sabbath, The Beatles, Bowie, Elton, and Frampton. Quick, Quint, count the American bands.Then it's a little odd that you think Muse to be obscure. Anyone who follows rock music in a passing way, no matter where they live, would have heard of that band years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hmmm, no, you assume too much. I really don't have to explain to you the steps of my life that have brought me to a point where The Children's Crusade Plagiarism Crusade of 2009 © was my first, only, and last introduction to this band.The amount of attention this band deserves from me as the result of my loose lipped and overblown comment is breathtakingly small, as I have no more shit to give about Muse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI 0 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Fair enough. Muse is a continuation of bands like Genesis and Led Zeppelin though, so it just means you aren't a real rock fan!? (just kidding) They are actually worth checking out, in spite of the silly rip off's of Slave Children and Morricone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 One day I was watching Cartoon Network and they were running some recently made Tom & Jerry cartoon movies, and one was about pirates.During a scene there was a short little piano ditty that was the first 5 or 6 notes of POTC theme.The horror! BTW, Mark arent you a little grown up to be watching CN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Fair enough. Muse is a continuation of bands like Genesis and Led Zeppelin though, so it just means you aren't a real rock fan!? (just kidding) They are actually worth checking out, in spite of the silly rip off's of Slave Children and Morricone.Well any real rock fan knows that the term "rock" itself has become rather vague anymore. What is rock? Elvis Presley and Chuck Berry are rock. Led Zeppelin and The Doors are rock. The Charlie Daniels Band and The Eagles are rock. Metallica and Green Day are rock. Yet so many of those acts are so different from each other and all the other "rock" groups that the term itself doesn't mean what it used to.When they started letting country and rap artists into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think that's when "rock" itself started meaning "any music that makes you wanna jump up and shake your bon-bon." I mean, Run DMC is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, while they are decidedly the group that people attribute Aerosmith as "selling out to" when they remade "Walk this Way." For me, that Hall has no special value.That being said, I'd be more than happy to pick up a Muse album at your recommendation. Can you recommend a good starting point for a Muse gonnabe?Same goes with Dream Theatre. I want to "get into" them but I haven't been able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Muse only has 5 albums so far. I'd start off with 'Origin of Symmetry' and 'Absolution'.And yes, outside America, they are pretty massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI 0 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Yeah, if you are going to get one album, I'd recommend Absolution. That's pretty much Muse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 They [Muse] are actually worth checking out, in spite of the silly rip off's of Slave Children and Morricone.In some ways though, their homage to that stuff is a big part who they are. Muse are clearly influenced by pre-90s pop culture, especially of the cinematic kind. Indeed one only has to listen to their latest single for further evidence - it is speculated that the intro to Uprising is surely a nod to Dr Who: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioG2jR-obac A cracking good song to boot.My point is I don't think Muse take themselves all that seriously and I imagine that they would be the first to admit that they stole from Williams in order to pay their respects to him.Now please excuse my hasty retreat from the thread before señor Wojo returns and drops another of his L-bombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yeah, if you are going to get one album, I'd recommend Absolution. That's pretty much Muse.Gah! I was at FYE this weekend and saw Absolution for $10 on sale and didn't get it, after dumping $250 on scores earlier in the week. I'm betting it'll still be there this evening, since they're so around these redneckish parts.And yes, outside America, they are pretty massive.I'm sorry, you lost me after "outside America." No LongBomb this time, señor Quint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 LectureBomb :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I wasn't that far off. I always saw them more as RantBombs myself.If they were LectureBombs, I'd ask Marc to change my handle to "The Idiot Professor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wycket 36 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Wow Quint, you're right. I never picked up that the beginning was inspired by Doctor Who, but sure enough I listened to it again and its obvious. I knew there was some familiarity, and sure enough that's what it was. And as you said, all their music is 80s pop-culture inspired, so why everyone got into a tizzy about the homage to TOD is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Because TOD is Williams, and Williams hasn't filmed a whole lot of movies lately to get excited about, so the Williams die-hards need to get into a tizzy about something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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