Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's (Philosopher's) Stone

[Wojo 2,453]

Actually it's just melted the HP multiverse into one giant glob of blah in my head where I really don't know where movie and book begin and end. I picture things from the books as playing out in movie land, and vice versa, so for me, the seventh movie is already come and gone, and nothing I "see" can live up to it.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I watched the first film, then I read the first, second and third books. Then I tried to watch the third film. Then I got tired. And hungry.

The closest thing to Potter I've seen since then was the picture of Hermione when she went commando on a night out.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You really have to read the books to understand a lot of things and see things in a different light. I was confused by several things in the movies.

Like the map and those names, which is sort of addressed in the sequels. Another instance is when Harry uses those names when talking to Snape in OOTP about having Padfoot at the place where it's hidden. What? He says he doesn't know what he's talking about and neither do I. Apparently in the books, Snape was involved with this behind the scenes and tipped the OOTP about it. I was caught off guard in HBP when Snape is talking to all the villains. I don't know if the earlier books ever mentioned that, but the impression I got was that he was just the weird gothy potion teacher with a stick up his ass. If they had actually let on that he may have known or served Voldemort earlier on, it would have made his character more threatening and interesting.

[Datameister 2,037]

I've read all seven books, and I saw each film after having read the book. I just generally prefer the books over the films, and they provide more information anyhow, and they're the originals, so it just made sense to me.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I only read the first two. I got disinterested in POA.

[Wojo 2,453]

I've read all seven books, and I saw each film after having read the book.

Did you?

[Datameister 2,037]

Nope.

[Wojo 2,453]

Didn't think so.

I was only teasing because I read deeper into the "saw each film after having read the book" than was implied. How anally pedantic of me.

Although if we look at this fourth-dimensionally, anyone who has read the book will see film seven after having read the book.

So you are correct.

[Richard Penna 3,675]

Yep. Not to mention that SS runs circles around Avatar in terms of quality.

I thought the general consensus here was Chris Columbus did a shitty job on PS and CoS!

Thought the consensus was the opposite actually.

I however agree with you - think Columbus did a disjointed and unimaginative job on both movies. They chose him because he works well with kids. You need more than that to make a Christmas blockbuster.

But I've read all the books before seeing the movies so I'm approaching them with an awareness of what's being cut/changed. The lack of explanation of who made the Marauder's Map in PoA winds me up for some reason too.

[Henry B 50]

Yep. Which is why in my perfect little world, complete releases would always have every cue separated out. Not because it's what the composer intended us to hear, not because it's the best listening experience, but simply because it's interesting to hear the art of film scoring broken down like that. Once you've got those separate cues, it's easy enough to either edit them together or get such an edit from someone else...faking clean openings and endings is a lot harder and a lot less accurate.

I don't agree at all, I have to say

I like the new trend with specialty labels to release original or newly arranged albums with extra tracks at the ends of the discs. Or, complete scores with "album edits" included at the end for the listener to sequence. Twilight Zone: The Movie is pretty ideal, I think. All the music is worth hearing, but both the complete score and the original album (which I sequenced in iTunes) are compelling listening experiences.

[Wojo 2,453]

It's like two albums contained on one disc, hidden within each other.

I spotted this on LP a few weeks ago at a Half Price Books.

[Datameister 2,037]

Didn't think so.

I was only teasing because I read deeper into the "saw each film after having read the book" than was implied. How anally pedantic of me.

You fail at anal pedantry. (That's what she said.) The phrase "each film" does not imply the seventh films already having been released, irrespective of how many books I've read; it only indicates that I have seen all of the films. If a person said, "I have seen all the Star Wars films" in 2004, (s)he would not be incorrect; it's taken for granted that such statements only include films that have already been released. Please leave the anal pedantry to me, I'm much better at it.

[fommes 153]

With 'Diagon Alley', are one of the two full takes OK? Or is editing one of the inserts into the thing better?

[Wojo 2,453]

Didn't think so.

I was only teasing because I read deeper into the "saw each film after having read the book" than was implied. How anally pedantic of me.

You fail at anal pedantry. (That's what she said.) The phrase "each film" does not imply the seventh films already having been released, irrespective of how many books I've read; it only indicates that I have seen all of the films. If a person said, "I have seen all the Star Wars films" in 2004, (s)he would not be incorrect; it's taken for granted that such statements only include films that have already been released. Please leave the anal pedantry to me, I'm much better at it.

You're right, and I should've left well enough alone. Your original statement was "I've read all seven books, and I saw each film after having read the book." The ", and" distinguishes first clause using "all" from the second using "each." You were quick to pick up on the fact that "all" does not extend to the second part.

I stumble around with anal pedantry only because she won't let me try anal pendantry.

[steb74 53]

....anal pedantry?

Leave that to me

[fommes 153]

With 'Diagon Alley', are one of the two full takes OK? Or is editing one of the inserts into the thing better?

Oh, and anyone know which one's used on the OST?

[Datameister 2,037]

I stumble around with anal pedantry only because she won't let me try anal pendantry.

It's okay, no one's perfect. Hey, at least you admitted your mistake, rather than just digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole.

Regarding "Diagon Alley", I'm not sure which take was (partially) used on the OST. We really don't know which take(s) would have been used in the final film, so it's up to us to decide which one(s) sound the best. It's not a big deal...the performances are pretty similar.

[fommes 153]

Thanks. Well, then I'll go with the one that's least work, lazy bum that I am.

Just thought I'd mention it, there's a long silence in the middle of Hermione's Feather that can be edited out for listening experience.

Are there any other mid-track silences that I missed?

[Datameister 2,037]

Nope, that should be the only one. I left it as-is, though.

Oh, one thing is that the horns sustain their notes a little longer before McGonagall's "witch-like" violin solo at the end of "Arrival at Hogwarts." Longer in the sessions than on the OST, I mean - they shortened that note for the OST, and if you want to, you can do that. I'm very much in the "as intended" mindset these days, though, so even shortening the silence in the middle of "Hermione's Feather" is a no-go for me.

[Henry B 50]

Nope, that should be the only one. I left it as-is, though.

Oh, one thing is that the horns sustain their notes a little longer before McGonagall's "witch-like" violin solo at the end of "Arrival at Hogwarts." Longer in the sessions than on the OST, I mean - they shortened that note for the OST, and if you want to, you can do that. I'm very much in the "as intended" mindset these days, though, so even shortening the silence in the middle of "Hermione's Feather" is a no-go for me.

Well... the sustained horn note does sound really awkward. Maybe holding it was a last minute change due to timing. There's nothing musically interesting about it, in my opinion.

[Datameister 2,037]

I prefer the way it sounds on the OST, too. But IIRC, the sheet music does indeed call for it to be held that long.

[GoodMusician 56]

I tried layering the revised Diagon Alley against the film and i found that it didn't fit. Not just becuase of tempo but certain moments which were obviously meant to coincide didn't fit against the music. It would seem that sequence got trimmed a bit and that may be an underlying reason why the music was replaced too.

[Josh500 1,615]

I tried layering the revised Diagon Alley against the film and i found that it didn't fit. Not just becuase of tempo but certain moments which were obviously meant to coincide didn't fit against the music. It would seem that sequence got trimmed a bit and that may be an underlying reason why the music was replaced too.

I have an idea that the version of "Diagon Alley" on the OS album is sort of a concert version. Maybe that's why it doesn't really fit.

But yeah, you might be right, of course.

[Henry B 50]

I tried layering the revised Diagon Alley against the film and i found that it didn't fit. Not just becuase of tempo but certain moments which were obviously meant to coincide didn't fit against the music. It would seem that sequence got trimmed a bit and that may be an underlying reason why the music was replaced too.

I have an idea that the version of "Diagon Alley" on the OS album is sort of a concert version. Maybe that's why it doesn't really fit.

Yes, it is. It's from the Children's Suite. The film version of "Diagon Alley" (which isn't the film version because it was replaced by "Entry into the Great Hall") is unreleased.

[Datameister 2,037]

Yep. Just for clarification, in case anyone is still confused, Williams wrote the original cue "Diagon Alley" for use in the film. The second half of this piece was included on the OST and used in the film. But on the OST, the first half was replaced with part of another piece called "Diagon Alley", which Williams wrote for the Children's Suite...and in the film, it was replaced by the unreleased cue "Entry Into the Great Hall."

In other words, the first half of the OST track is taken from a concert suite; the second half is taken from the actual cue for the film.

[Josh500 1,615]

This piece intrigues me.

Many people here claim the score to PoA is so much better partly because it sounds so Middle Age (especially "Hagrid the Professor" and "Double Trouble"), but actually Williams started this in the very first picture. This sounds very much Middle Age, IMO.

[Datameister 2,037]

Oh, the medieval influences definitely started in SS. There are cues with recorders and medieval percussion and antiquated-sounding synths and whatnot. POA just took those scattered elements and concentrated them into a strong musical identity, at least in the first half of the film. (Don't know where it went after that...)

Personally, I still like SS better, but POA is a flippin' awesome score. I suspect that if and when complete sessions leak (or an actual complete soundtrack is released!), we'll all have similar jumps in our appreciation levels. As with SS, there's a lot of good unreleased music.

[Josh500 1,615]

Oh, the medieval influences definitely started in SS. There are cues with recorders and medieval percussion and antiquated-sounding synths and whatnot. POA just took those scattered elements and concentrated them into a strong musical identity, at least in the first half of the film. (Don't know where it went after that...)

Personally, I still like SS better, but POA is a flippin' awesome score. I suspect that if and when complete sessions leak (or an actual complete soundtrack is released!), we'll all have similar jumps in our appreciation levels. As with SS, there's a lot of good unreleased music.

Yeah, agree!

I am still not sure which I like better. PS or PoA. They are both so incredibly awesome, but in (slightly) different ways. And both scores have tons of unreleased music (more in the case of PS, simply because it was a longer movie and more music was written for it).

[King Mark 3,626]

Personally, I still like SS better, but POA is a flippin' awesome score. I suspect that if and when complete sessions leak (or an actual complete soundtrack is released!), we'll all have similar jumps in our appreciation levels. As with SS, there's a lot of good unreleased music.

Yes there's some highlights missing from PoA but PoA will never have the epicness of HPSS

[Datameister 2,037]

It definitely has different strengths.

[Josh500 1,615]

Yes there's some highlights missing from PoA but PoA will never have the epicness of HPSS

Yeah, but only because PS and CoS are more epic than PoA.

Let's be honest, PoA seems a like a Walt Disney kid's adventure movie... with a higher budget, that is.

[Datameister 2,037]

I'm not sure I follow. PoA has a more mature tone, I think - although it's really up to the viewer whether or not this is a good thing.

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, the kids are older and more mature in PoA, sure, but the movie feels less epic nonethless. It's got to do with the overall quality...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

POA is a more personal story, but it doesn't need to be "epic" to be good.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I listened to the complete score all the week and I'm still in awe. This is a wonderful, wonderful piece of art. The Children Suite was for me the icing on the cake. It encapsules all the major ideas of the film score and presents them in a fresh and compelling way.

It also reinforced my idea that Williams should have won the Academy Award for it. I love Shore's FOTR, but Williams is still in another league.

[Richard Penna 3,675]

They have the same amount of thought in them, just different compositional styles.

The twinkly bits do annoy me a bit actually. I'd go as far as to say I don't like the ending of Face of Voldemort. When Harry is knocked over, the orchestra just descends into a twinkly mess.Same reason actually why I think PoA the score is a tad overrated. When Lupin transforms, the music again decends into a series of bangs and crashes that honestly, are musically clumsy. If it's meant to symbolise the carnage going on in his body, it doesn't work musically for me.

[publicist 4,643]

They have the same amount of thought in them, just different compositional styles.

The twinkly bits do annoy me a bit actually. I'd go as far as to say I don't like the ending of Face of Voldemort. When Harry is knocked over, the orchestra just descends into a twinkly mess.Same reason actually why I think PoA the score is a tad overrated. When Lupin transforms, the music again decends into a series of bangs and crashes that honestly, are musically clumsy. If it's meant to symbolise the carnage going on in his body, it doesn't work musically for me.

Williams' dissonances from the late 90's onwards are a tough sell, be it in the film or on album. There are certainly some contributors to this forum who'd hail them as highest art, though...the wonderful diversity of opinions.

It also reinforced my idea that Williams should have won the Academy Award for it. I love Shore's FOTR, but Williams is still in another league.

He shouldn't. As charming as parts of it can be, it still is (very) old news musically and to award a veteran composer for the umpteenth time for mastering his craft just seems a bit too reactionary.

[TownerFan 4,983]

As charming as parts of it can be, it still is (very) old news musically and to award a veteran composer for the umpteenth time for mastering his craft just seems a bit too reactionary.

Wow, that's a tad too dramatizing. It's a children film, written and shot in a very decipherable style and it's accompained by music that should be as easily decipherable by a kids audience. But it's not "child-ish" music. Sure, it doesn't break any new ground (for Williams nor film music in general), but it's mastered with such wit, grace and gusto (and musically solid as rock) that it's impossible not to be impressed.

Of course Williams doesn't need more Oscars than he already got, but if I would have been part of the Academy I would have give my vote for JW that year.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Let's be honest, PoA seems a like a Walt Disney kid's adventure movie... with a higher budget, that is.

Wait... what? That's my problem with the first two films. If anything, the third is the least formulaic and Disney like of the Williams films. It goes on its own way with a building plot but no cliche, pre established direction like the first three. It's not about some typical Voldemort conspiracy like the first two. It's more about just what happened during Harry's third year. It's certainly far too mature and dark to just be a Walt Disney Kids Adventure. No way.

POA is a more personal story, but it doesn't need to be "epic" to be good.

[Josh500 1,615]

Wait... what? That's my problem with the first two films. If anything, the third is the least formulaic and Disney like of the Williams films. It goes on its own way with a building plot but no cliche, pre established direction like the first three. It's not about some typical Voldemort conspiracy like the first two. It's more about just what happened during Harry's third year. It's certainly far too mature and dark to just be a Walt Disney Kids Adventure. No way.

Well, formulaic or not, IMO the first two movies seem more like parts of a larger canvas: like I said, certainly more epic, but also more grand, more profound. The kids are smaller, but that has nothing to do with the overall feeling of the movie. The third movie feels like just one summer spent with Harry Potter and his friends on some adventure (which is Saving Buckbeak). PoA--while it's good--of course, doesn't have this grandness, somehow.

[publicist 4,643]

As charming as parts of it can be, it still is (very) old news musically and to award a veteran composer for the umpteenth time for mastering his craft just seems a bit too reactionary.

Wow, that's a tad too dramatizing. It's a children film, written and shot in a very decipherable style and it's accompained by music that should be as easily decipherable by a kids audience.

It's a heavy-handed score, for sure and it stately reinforces the weaknesses of Columbus' direction. As such it was rightly critizized for its overbearing nature when the movie came out (by now, the nostalgic waxing already has set in). That it has its charm is without question, but Oscar-worthy? Hardly...

[Datameister 2,037]

As such it was rightly critizized for its overbearing nature when the movie came out...

Wait...HPSS is overbearing, but FOTR isn't?

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

if this is not oscar worthy...75 % of the nominees (and many winners) should not even be nominated in the 1st place...

[Ollie 1,059]

If any JW score was worthy of the Oscar that year it was A.I.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

yes, that is what i think too, but hearing the complete score i can realy see why HP was recognised too.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

If any JW score was worthy of the Oscar that year it was A.I.

Yeah, I like HPSS, but it's not in the same league as AI. Though, an oscar for either would satisfy me.

[King Mark 3,626]

I think HPSS>>> A.I.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I think HPSS>>> A.I.

WELL I THINK A.I.>>> HPSS SO NYAH!

Just kidding...

[Richard Penna 3,675]

HPPS runs round in circles over A.I. The latter actually bores me in places.

Put it this way - if the A.I. sessions had just leaked, I wouldn't be celebrating very much.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's a heavy-handed score, for sure and it stately reinforces the weaknesses of Columbus' direction. As such it was rightly critizized for its overbearing nature when the movie came out (by now, the nostalgic waxing already has set in). That it has its charm is without question, but Oscar-worthy? Hardly...

You're a fool. And you will lose...everything.

A.I. and POA are easily the most overrated scores among JW fans.

HP1 is the best score JW composed in the 2000's. My favorite since Hook. The first sign that we were in for a treat was the trailer. On November 16 it was obvious from the WB logo (all of 5 seconds of music, mind you) this was a JW modern classic. I was enthralled for all 2 1/2 and hours of it. A.I., on the other hand, had me on the verge of falling asleep. Not even JW's music could keep my attention. When that happens, you know your film and its score are screwed.