Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's (Philosopher's) Stone

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I'm not sure that I'd agree with all the sentiment that this score was one of the all-time Williams greats. There's definitely a lot of great little unreleased bits, but none of it adds up to the degree of putting this in the top 10.

On the other hand main theme for the series is easily one of the greatest, if not the greatest theme Williams has written. Fits the series like a glove. But the score as a whole is not particularly amazing during a full listen, especially for those of us who remember Home Alone and Hook. In the movie it's hit or miss at best. There are times it's absolutely riveting, like Harry finding his wand, or the Blue Forest, and there are times it's downright obnoxious and out of place...like when Hagrid is breaking into the getaway at the beginning of the movie.

Prisoner of Azkaban still takes the cake as one of the top ten, due to its uniqueness and elegance. In Sorcerer's Stone Williams hit a home run with the majority of the scenes. In Prisoner of Azkaban, he nailed each and every scene.

I find myself listening to Sorcerer's Stone too often waiting for the next awesome part to happen, perhaps a side effect of its awkward underscore-concert piece-underscore-concert piece structure. Azkaban tends to be more musical storytelling which I prefer.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Prisoner of Azkaban still takes the cake as one of the top ten, due to its uniqueness and elegance. In Sorcerer's Stone Williams hit a home run with the majority of the scenes. In Prisoner of Azkaban, he nailed each and every scene.

I still can't get my head around what everyone hears in PoA. It's a good score, but particularly towards the end it just gets less and less musical. There are literally three unreleased cues I want from this score. That is all.

Plus the usual problem - JW ruins for me any scary or dramatic scene with woodwinds.

I was discussing this with someone else from this board, and we agreed that virtually all of Williams' output in the noughties is indicative of a golden/silver age composer trying to adapt to modern scoring, and not succeeding with every project. I know many won't agree with that, but it's what we think.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The latter half of PoA loses me. It's the only one of the HP soundtracks I skip tracks.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

If I had to choose only those cues that I really felt meant something to me and worked over a prolonged period, I'd probably ditch 1/3 of the score.

But I respect the franchise too much. Same thing happened with Raiders. I only had maybe half the album, but decided to keep the whole thing when I got the box. It just felt right.

[MrJosh 892]

For me, adding woodwinds doesn't mess any of the scary stuff up. I do feel the same about POA otherwise. I even made myself a complete edit of the score and after listening a few times, I too only really am wanting just a few of the unreleased cues. There is some great stuff in PoA but it doesn't connect to me like it does others on the boards.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Plus the usual problem - JW ruins for me any scary or dramatic scene with woodwinds.

What can i say, T-Rex rescue and Finale is full of frenzy woodwinds everywhere, and its one of the more Williams' thrilling cues of recent times (and one of the top including past times).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Plus the usual problem - JW ruins for me any scary or dramatic scene with woodwinds.

That's because you are being conditioned by the Zimmer style, were they are used seldom.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Sounds like brainwashing to me.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Plus the usual problem - JW ruins for me any scary or dramatic scene with woodwinds.

What can i say, T-Rex rescue and Finale is full of frenzy woodwinds everywhere, and its one of the more Williams' thrilling cues of recent times (and one of the top including past times).

Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't.

When you've got a big, dark, chilling dementor peering into your train carriage and the music does a series of woodwind flourishes... well I think there are other devices that would better convey fear.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I find the dementor's music scary and chilling.

But i havent seen the film.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I'll give you that, richuk.

Occasionally I find Williams shows his age with his "this is where you should feel ________" scoring.

There are moments you just want to take the orchestra and shove their instruments up their asses and tell them to shut up and let the visuals speak. One of those moments for me has always been the Dementor scenes in HP3.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Really? I still think "The Dementors Converge" is one of Williams' best cues in the last decade.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I like it on album. In the movie it's too much. I think no music would have served the scene better.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Really? I still think "The Dementors Converge" is one of Williams' best cues in the last decade.

Great evidence of varying tastes here. PoA contains some of my least favourite Williams music of his career.

If the sessions ever leak, I can't imagine keeping the whole thing like I have with HPPS. I want Sirius' rescue, the film version of 'locking down the castle' and the two sequences with the past theme (on the bridge and outside the whomping willow). I'd gladly have had them on album instead of any of the time travel stuff, dementor material or knight bus/monster book stuff.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I'm not particularly bothered with a complete PoA. If I want to hear the unreleased music I tend to just watch the movie. I'm still not tired of watching it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I'm certainly not the biggest fan of POA, not to say it's poor or anything. But there are chunks I find uninteresting.

[King Mark 3,631]

If the sessions ever leak, I can't imagine keeping the whole thing like I have with HPPS. I want Sirius' rescue, the film version of 'locking down the castle' and the two sequences with the past theme (on the bridge and outside the whomping willow). I'd gladly have had them on album instead of any of the time travel stuff, dementor material or knight bus/monster book stuff.

what do you mean keeping the whole thing? You delete part of your soundtracks?

[Datameister 2,042]

I'm certainly not the biggest fan of POA, not to say it's poor or anything. But there are chunks I find uninteresting.

I think POA is fantastic, but there are parts that I really don't care for. The overly minimalistic vibe chords in that one cue...wow. Snore. But when POA doesn't get bogged down in dull stretches like that, it's got some really fantastic music in it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What you're getting at is that Saving Buckbeak is shit, and I agree. It suits the movie I guess, but it has no place on that CD. Skip.

As the kind of "preparatory/mission" music (as I refer to it), it kinda stinks until the end part that's similar to Threepio's levitation from Return of the Jedi. Not like, say, similar stuff from Black Sunday or Planting the Charges from Towering Inferno, where you're on the edge of your seat the whole time. I figure the director wanted something more low key and less awesome.

[Datameister 2,042]

Yes. I'd want it to be part of a complete release, of course, just for the sake of completeness...but it's incredibly boring to me.

The aforementioned cue for the rescue of Sirius, however...oh man. That piece is goosebump-inducing. And I must admit, the echoes of Hermione's scream on the DVD rip don't hurt. But then again, I have a thing for Emma Watson.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The transition to winter with Harry in the clock tower...whew! Best moment of 21st century Williams...

[King Mark 3,631]

yes that's great .No alive composer can match that type of writing

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Ha, I love "Saving Buckbeak". Both parts are great tension builders.

"The Werewolf Scene", "Chasing Scabbers" and "Lupin's Transformation", on the other hand... zzzzz

Edit: Oh yes Blu, I completely agree with that. I still remember sitting in the cinema watching that bit for the first time, nearly knocked me out of my chair. That 30 seconds of music is incredible.

[Datameister 2,042]

So. Freaking. Good. Don't know if I'd call it the best moment of 21st century Williams, but it is incredible regardless. I don't even know why...it's a relatively straightforward transition from a pre-existing arrangement of Hedwig's theme to the POA family theme, with some simple violin stuff up above. Yet it is somehow so compelling. Stuff like that is what makes me love POA.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Well, yeah, that and when Harry uses the charm for the first time on that grim reaper looking thing.

Also the track with the harpsichord melody when he's sneaking around the castle with the map. Even the last bit of the end credits with that harpsichord melody was edited off the album, so Williams must not like what he did there.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well, yeah, that and when Harry uses the charm for the first time on that grim reaper looking thing.

that's another great unreleased moment

But it's all smaller passages than what was missing from HPSS

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yeah, we were certainly in need of all 2 1/2 hours or so of the first score. Is that the longest JW score? It's got to be.

[Datameister 2,042]

It's always hard to tell the exact length, since alternates and so forth don't always make it onto the albums.

[fommes 153]

that's another great unreleased moment

Yep. That, and EVERYTHING ELSE.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

If the sessions ever leak, I can't imagine keeping the whole thing like I have with HPPS. I want Sirius' rescue, the film version of 'locking down the castle' and the two sequences with the past theme (on the bridge and outside the whomping willow). I'd gladly have had them on album instead of any of the time travel stuff, dementor material or knight bus/monster book stuff.

what do you mean keeping the whole thing? You delete part of your soundtracks?

If the released album has a dodgy listening experience or contains something I routinely skip, then yes. No point in having something in your collection that you don't listen to.

I often download sessions not for the entire thing, but to obtain specific cues and make a set that I like better than the official product. Usually happens with films I haven't seen and only want to engage with through music. or just if the score doesn't click in its entirety such as PoA.

yes that's great .No alive composer can match that type of writing

Oh shut it.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

yes that's great .No alive composer can match that type of writing

Are you agreeing with me or Data?

But yeah, the transition to winter piece, I think what makes it so special is that it defines the entire essence of the third book, film, and that is the loneliness of Harry.

Every time I hear it, my heart sinks a little. It makes *me* feel lonely in a room with people in it.

[Matt C 453]

I have a question to ask:

How much of PS/SS was recorded at Air Lyndhurst and Abbey Road, respectively?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I still can't figure out the volume levels for this. They seem to fluctuate. Certain tracks are too low, some are too high. Overall it seems too low, so I've gradually increased and reduced the volume level in iTunes. But I find it's always either too loud or too soft after doing this. When my playlist switches to tracks from the official CD, you can instantly tell.

[Datameister 2,042]

The unedited SS sessions have a very wide dynamic range, which makes them impossible to listen to without adjusting the volume constantly. I used Audacity's envelope tool extensively to sort of manually normalize everything. The OST has a much narrower dynamic range, making it much more listenable in that respect.

[King Mark 3,631]

I think it works raising most of the quieter tracks by 5 db. Some are already loud all the way through so I left them alone

some cues like 3 note loop are more problematic

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yes because there are low parts and a really loud part.

[John Crichton 4]

Instead of mucking about with the files I just adjust the volume of whatever I'm playing it on.

[King Mark 3,631]

yeah well always keep a copy of the unaltered files

But for playing I had to customize it a bit. Personally I don;t want Williams speaking before a cue

[Datameister 2,042]

Instead of mucking about with the files I just adjust the volume of whatever I'm playing it on.

I figure why do it every time I listen when I can just do it once and be done with it? And like KM, it's not as if I mucked around with the files themselves. I mucked around with copies of them.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Volume fluctuations within cues annoyed me to no end. A cue like The Dark Forest needed some enveloping to quieten Voldemort's appearance, then very quickly amplify the track when the strings come in.

It's hard to get it exactly right though. I use Audition because I can see the peaks of the wave, but the envelope feature is very inexact. I can adjust it precisely in Sony Vegas but you can't see the actual wave (can anyone correct me on that? especially whether you can see clipping), and there are so many independent volume controls (track, master, app itself) that it's really hard to figure out what's really going on.

[King Mark 3,631]

I use Magix. Everything shows up a 1 WAV graphic with left and right channel combined and I just raise a button in the middle of the screen to "raise" it .I can split it up and raise individual sections but have to be careful not to create a "jarring" effect of volume jump

I also use that main screen to edit .It's weird because most other editors I tried the WAV is separated in left and right channel but I just work with the "combined channel" WAV graphic .The results are what my ears tell me

I have a feeling I'm not doing this in the normal way though (I wish I could show a screen shot of how I edit but I don't know how)

[Wojo 2,453]

I use Sonic Foundry Sound Forge v4.5 for just about everything. I have only found two tasks that I'm more comfortable doing in Audacity:

1) adjusting pitch of the Raiders tracks, since the values given here were already in units that Audacity could understand, and

2) playing multiple tracks at once when working with separate DVD channels, to see which sections to mute and which passages to glue back together.

But the main interface of Sound Forge is left channel on top, right on the bottom.

[Jay 37,352]

I use Sound Forge as well!

I'm curious, why stay on version 4.5 instead of using the current version (9.0c is what I have)

[Wojo 2,453]

4.5 was free in college?

[Jay 37,352]

Fair enough

[Datameister 2,042]

I stick with Audacity because it's totally free and can do most of what I need to do. MAGIX is great for cleaning up the sound, but I would never want to edit in it. I'm way more comfortable with Audacity - and I very much need to be able to see both channels of a stereo track, since whenever I'm using DVD rips, I do a lot of switching between channels and faking stereo from single channels and whatnot, in order to remove as much of the sound effects as possible.

[King Mark 3,631]

Probably, but for just editing game files into other cues I prefer all the channels clumped into one graphic (the main Magix window). Then I zoom in and do micro adjusting until I can't hear the transition on my headphones . I do it very intuitively by listening exactly when a note ends to join the next segment

I tried doing both channels separately but found it much harder to get a result that sounds right

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You know what's an awesome part? The ending of Checkmate when Harry presses on to the dungeon. It reminds me of Planting the Charges. I love this technique. I can listen to that segment repeatedly.

[Datameister 2,042]

That's an understatedly amazing moment. There's a sense of urgency and ominousness, but it's conveyed in the most subtle way. I really love it.

[King Mark 3,631]

of all the new Williams stuff we got this year, this is by far what I listen to the most