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https://www.facebook.com/varesesarabanderecords/photos/a.207302096128750/1417357701789844/

Awareness of what fans have written us over the years, sites like this or FSM, my own interests in specific composers.  Other factors apply.  It's not random as much as it's about what's available, ho

I don't know what you guys are talking about, it looks fine to me.  

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

Dude, read the post 2 posts before yours

Jay, what do you mean? Iam talking about Brainstorm ( hoping its the single VCL title that varese is releasing on Friday) 

 

Nevermind, OH wait! Now i get it LOL

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34 minutes ago, Amer said:

Jay, what do you mean? Iam talking about Brainstorm ( hoping its the single VCL title that varese is releasing on Friday) 

 

Yes, and so was Bryon Davis, the poster 2 posts before yours who is the "Varese producers [...]under the new regime" you mentioned.  In that post, he tells us its his goal to make Brainstorm happen!

 

9 hours ago, BryonDavis said:

It is a goal of mine to try and make this happen.

 

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6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yes, and so was Byron Davis, the poster 2 posts before yours who is the "Varese producers [...]under the new regime" you mentioned.  In that post, he tells us its his goal to make Brainstorm happen!

 

Silly me. Yes, oh.. well someday.... :)

4 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

The original album (LSO re-recording, engineered by Eric Tomlinson) sounds amazing, with tremendously wide dynamic range. If part of the new release I sincerely hope they don't screw up the mastering.

That's one of the best sounding Shawn Murphy recorded album.! I only had a tape dub..

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6 hours ago, Amer said:

 

Silly me. Yes, oh.. well someday.... :)

That's one of the best sounding Shawn Murphy recorded album.! I only had a tape dub..

 

I know where we can go to find Shawn's recording files. My only hope is they have the tapes. Bob Townson was not big on backing up anything. If it were up to me raw high res transfers would haveen be stored on everything.  I pushed for it in many a meeting only to have him ignore it.

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A clew!
 

Quote

Since you were all begging for it, here's a clue. This is going to be you folks when we announce the new CD Club title this Friday. Giddy up.

Image may contain: 1 person, hat

 

https://www.facebook.com/varesesarabanderecords/posts/1485111805014433

 

Oh, I hope it is Marc Shaiman's City Slickers!

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7 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said:

Ha, I just watched CS2 tonight. Amazing score that one.

 

Totally agreed

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Whereas City Slickers II got a rather more generous 50 minute album on Columbia, the original City Slicker album on Varese was just 37 minutes...so it’s possible there could be more substantial material to expand it with. But someone more familiar with the film would have to speak to that.

 

We already know Intrada asked Horner about Young Guns and he nixed it at the time.

 

Yavar

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  • 2 weeks later...

@BryonDavis, I loved reading your droplets of insights from a producer's point of view that you've provided here recently.

 

There's something that I've been wondering about for a while: Varese Sarabande has done a large number of rerecordings of classic film scores. Many of them are very popular, and have been out-of-print for a long time. Recently, Varese Sarabande re-released McNeely's Shadows of the Empire. Is there a chance we'll get other re-releases of other popular recordings you've done, such as Herrmann's Marnie and North by Northwest?

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16 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

@BryonDavis, I loved reading your droplets of insights from a producer's point of view that you've provided here recently.

 

There's something that I've been wondering about for a while: Varese Sarabande has done a large number of rerecordings of classic film scores. Many of them are very popular, and have been out-of-print for a long time. Recently, Varese Sarabande re-released McNeely's Shadows of the Empire. Is there a chance we'll get other re-releases of other popular recordings you've done, such as Herrmann's Marnie and North by Northwest?

 

Thanks!

 

Some issues make that slim.  The declining CD market makes reissues like these harder to do.  Keep in mind, when a label like Varese cuts out (Deletes from the catalog or makes something out of print if you will) it's based on sales.  If something isn't selling enough every year to justify a reprint, it is axed and becomes digital only.  If any of these get reissued it will be as vinyl (I know).  Unlike an older 30 minute union film score where we can find more music and issue as a deluxe edition, the whole idea of having a long term inventory of CD releases is not feasable in today's marketplace. 

 

One never knows if they come back out.  Star Wars SOTE made sense because they wanted to do vinyl so reissuing the CD was of great interest.  So basically, time will tell if we do.  With the RIAA saying 85% of all sales dollars to the music industry were to streaming and digital it goes to show that CD releases have to be special to appeal to the core fans who buy them.

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4 hours ago, BryonDavis said:

 

Thanks!

 

Some issues make that slim.  The declining CD market makes reissues like these harder to do.  Keep in mind, when a label like Varese cuts out (Deletes from the catalog or makes something out of print if you will) it's based on sales.  If something isn't selling enough every year to justify a reprint, it is axed and becomes digital only.  If any of these get reissued it will be as vinyl (I know).  Unlike an older 30 minute union film score where we can find more music and issue as a deluxe edition, the whole idea of having a long term inventory of CD releases is not feasable in today's marketplace. 

 

One never knows if they come back out.  Star Wars SOTE made sense because they wanted to do vinyl so reissuing the CD was of great interest.  So basically, time will tell if we do.  With the RIAA saying 85% of all sales dollars to the music industry were to streaming and digital it goes to show that CD releases have to be special to appeal to the core fans who buy them.

Thanks for the update. The Vinyl market is doing rather well with cd sales declining. I only hope Joel McNeely recording of Herrmann's VERTIGO is possible someday. You have no idea how many of us want that on Vinyl. 

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Just now, Amer said:

Thanks for the update. The Vinyl market is doing rather well with cd sales declining. I only hope Joel McNeely recording of Herrmann's VERTIGO is possible someday. You have no idea how many of us want that on Vinyl. 

 

Anything is possible.  Issue is always how many can we sell.

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13 hours ago, BryonDavis said:

 

Thanks!

 

Some issues make that slim.  The declining CD market makes reissues like these harder to do.  Keep in mind, when a label like Varese cuts out (Deletes from the catalog or makes something out of print if you will) it's based on sales.  If something isn't selling enough every year to justify a reprint, it is axed and becomes digital only.  If any of these get reissued it will be as vinyl (I know).  Unlike an older 30 minute union film score where we can find more music and issue as a deluxe edition, the whole idea of having a long term inventory of CD releases is not feasable in today's marketplace. 

 

One never knows if they come back out.  Star Wars SOTE made sense because they wanted to do vinyl so reissuing the CD was of great interest.  So basically, time will tell if we do.  With the RIAA saying 85% of all sales dollars to the music industry were to streaming and digital it goes to show that CD releases have to be special to appeal to the core fans who buy them.

 

Thanks for an informative reply. I've noticed that a few of Varese's re-recordings that seemed to be OOP have come back lately, such as Body Heat and Somewhere in Time. So I guess the earlier sales numbers of these were good enough to warrant reprints?

 

Some of your re-recordings were limited editions, for example, North by Northwest was limited to 3000 units, and has been highly sought after for many years (fortunately, I got a copy). What about re-releasing such popular limited releases?

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Personally what I think might sell well on CD is a budget box set (CDs in sleeves, inside an attractive cardboard box, a la what a lot of classical labels have done) of  all of Varese’s re-recordings. Silva has regularly done budget repackagings and they seem to keep being able to mine sales from their back catalogue of recordings.

 

Or if that would be too big of a box set to try out, how about just a box set of the Varese Herrmann re-recordings, to test out the waters with something smaller (and Herrmann is a very popular composer still). Say $50 or $60 to own all of the Herrmann re-recordings Varese has done (all the McNeelys plus Debney’s 7th Voyage, etc.) People love a bargain, and Varese already spent the money and owns the recordings, largely making what profit they would off of them. Everything at this point would be gravy...

 

Yavar

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14 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Personally what I think might sell well on CD is a budget box set (CDs in sleeves, inside an attractive cardboard box

 

Too big a box, especially with the super thick liner notes book (which is essential).

 

15 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Or if that would be too big of a box set to try out, how about just a box set of the Varese Herrmann re-recordings, to test out the waters with something smaller (and Herrmann is a very popular composer still). Say $50 or $60 to own all of the Herrmann re-recordings Varese has done (all the McNeelys plus Debney’s 7th Voyage, etc.)

 

That's a better suggestion. :)

 

16 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Silva has regularly done budget repackagings and they seem to keep being able to mine sales from their back catalogue of recordings.

 

Yes, but their recording sessions surely are cheaper than Varese's.

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18 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Personally what I think might sell well on CD is a budget box set (CDs in sleeves, inside an attractive cardboard box, a la what a lot of classical labels have done) of  all of Varese’s re-recordings. Silva has regularly done budget repackagings and they seem to keep being able to mine sales from their back catalogue of recordings.

 

Or if that would be too big of a box set to try out, how about just a box set of the Varese Herrmann re-recordings, to test out the waters with something smaller (and Herrmann is a very popular composer still). Say $50 or $60 to own all of the Herrmann re-recordings Varese has done (all the McNeelys plus Debney’s 7th Voyage, etc.) People love a bargain, and Varese already spent the money and owns the recordings, largely making what profit they would off of them. Everything at this point would be gravy...

 

Yavar

 

$12-25 for mechanicals

It would need to be jewel cases as anything made out of paper products is costly contrary to popular belief. 

 

$99.99 is the price it would need to sell for and I fear that it would not sell sadly.

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Too big a box, especially with the super thick liner notes book (which is essential).

 

 

That's a better suggestion. :)

 

 

Yes, but their recording sessions surely are cheaper than Varese's.

100% right. 

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In what is probably a niche opinion, I tend to think that the quality of the preservation of the music (i.e. sounds good) is all that truly matters with these sets.

 

I mean it's nice to look at the cover art once in a blue moon, but all the liners and essays (particlarly with bigger releases)... I usually skim them, then never read them again. I got the Wild Wild West set a few days ago, skimmed through the notes, and the score sounds great - that's all I care about now.

 

I guess I'd prefer a soundtrack world in which more scores are expanded digitally, than fewer because people want elaborate boxes and presentation.

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32 minutes ago, BryonDavis said:

It would need to be jewel cases as anything made out of paper products is costly contrary to popular belief. 

 

Digipaks are also less sturdy, especially in international shipping... so one has to wonder why record companies keep using that instead of jewel cases.

 

11 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

In what is probably a niche opinion, I tend to think that the quality of the preservation of the music (i.e. sounds good) is all that truly matters with these sets.

 

I mean it's nice to look at the cover art once in a blue moon, but all the liners and essays (particlarly with bigger releases)... I usually skim them, then never read them again. I got the Wild Wild West set a few days ago, skimmed through the notes, and the score sounds great - that's all I care about now.

 

I guess I'd prefer a soundtrack world in which more scores are expanded digitally, than fewer because people want elaborate boxes and presentation.

 

Just get Spotify. ;)

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1 hour ago, BryonDavis said:

 

$12-25 for mechanicals

It would need to be jewel cases as anything made out of paper products is costly contrary to popular belief. 

$99.99 is the price it would need to sell for and I fear that it would not sell sadly.

 

I believe you, but I'm curious: how is it that classical labels (like Sony for example -- think their recent set of Gerhardt recordings, 12 CDs for around $30) can keep reissuing the recordings which they own in inexpensive budget box sets? (And why do they often opt for cardboard boxes over jewel cases, for such sets?) Is it just greater volume, or what? And why would it cost more for Varese to reissue a recording they made, than it would for Silva to do one of theirs? Aren't the recordings owned, outright? I don't think they were ever made with AFM musicians, so there shouldn't be re-use fees to worry about. I get if there are mechanical licensing fees to the music publisher or whatever, but again how does Sony do something like that Gerhardt box at $30? Is it just because they own pressing plants?

Yavar

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3 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Vinyl is certainly not an ECONOMIC alternative for many of us.

The list price for many title seems to average TWICE the CD price.

Understood but the economics of vinyl for labels is more preferable right now. If I prepare a vinyl and CD of a studio archive release.  On a lp sellout of 1k units we could see a profit 14k. A cd is could net a 3rd of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Digipaks are also less sturdy, especially in international shipping... so one has to wonder why record companies keep using that instead of jewel cases.

 

 

Just get Spotify. ;)

Some prefer the digipak.

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22 minutes ago, BryonDavis said:

Understood but the economics of vinyl for labels is more preferable right now. If I prepare a vinyl and CD of a studio archive release.  On a lp sellout of 1k units we could see a profit 14k. A cd is could net a 3rd of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some prefer the digipak.

I really like digipaks when they’re in good condition and don’t have that annoying crease down the spine. (Of course, the challenge is keeping them in that condition.)

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5 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

I believe you, but I'm curious: how is it that classical labels (like Sony for example -- think their recent set of Gerhardt recordings, 12 CDs for around $30) can keep reissuing the recordings which they own in inexpensive budget box sets? (And why do they often opt for cardboard boxes over jewel cases, for such sets?) Is it just greater volume, or what? And why would it cost more for Varese to reissue a recording they made, than it would for Silva to do one of theirs? Aren't the recordings owned, outright? I don't think they were ever made with AFM musicians, so there shouldn't be re-use fees to worry about. I get if there are mechanical licensing fees to the music publisher or whatever, but again how does Sony do something like that Gerhardt box at $30? Is it just because they own pressing plants?

Yavar

Simple, they own the material outright. Classical mechanicals are not an issue for music hundreds of years old in some cases.

 

In the case of film music we pay mechanicals.

 

Take the Manicini box. A huge company like Sony has cheaper deals to manufacture these. They own those scores in perpetuity and many have sold hundreds of thousands of units. In some cases Pink Panther alone has gone gold. That's the other factor. That set sold pretty well. A box of rerecordings that is going to be of interest to film score collectors won't sell the kinds of numbers that a Sony box of Mancini or wrll known classical pieces will. For us to make money on an idea like this we'd need to know we can sell at least:

 

A $99 box via retail channels will pay the label about 40-50 a unit. Website sales won't do much for these. So at say 40 bucks a pop we will spend about 30 bucks to make and would need to sell a minimum of 700 to 800 to break even. That could be doable but there are other built in labor costs that are wasted just to break even. For it to be appealing we would need to sell 1500 to 2000 through Universal for it to be appealing at the barest of minimums.

 

The big labels divested themselves of physical distribution centers and manufacturing plants. Sony owns old recordings that in many cases have sold so many units it doesn't hurt to squeeze a few dollars more out of a new configuration. Again, its not worth the time and money to hopefully squeeze a few bucks if we do at all.

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2 hours ago, BryonDavis said:

Understood but the economics of vinyl for labels is more preferable right now. If I prepare a vinyl and CD of a studio archive release.  On a lp sellout of 1k units we could see a profit 14k. A cd is could net a 3rd of that.

 

 

When Waxwork Records released John De Prez's TMNT a couple years back in LP, I thought "ah fuck, I'm not buying that, regardless if I've waited like 27, 28 years for it". But when they finally released a CD a few months later, I bought it immediately.

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12 hours ago, BryonDavis said:

the economics of vinyl for labels is more preferable right now. If I prepare a vinyl and CD of a studio archive release.  On a lp sellout of 1k units we could see a profit 14k. A cd is could net a 3rd of that.

 

Thank you for this. I will quote this anytime someone complains about something coming to vinyl and not CD these days. 

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12 hours ago, BryonDavis said:

Understood but the economics of vinyl for labels is more preferable right now. If I prepare a vinyl and CD of a studio archive release.  On a lp sellout of 1k units we could see a profit 14k. A cd is could net a 3rd of that.

 

But aren't CDs significantly cheaper to manufacture?

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What are you two on about? He already clearly told us the profit difference, which is revenue minus cost. 

 

What part don't you understand? 

 

CDs obviously cost less than LPs to manufacture, nobody would ever suggest otherwise. 

 

CDs sell for $20. LPs for $40. Hence, with production costs factored in for each, they make 3x the profit from from a 1000 unit LP sellout vs a 1000 unit CD sellout. 

 

It's not complicated. 

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22 minutes ago, Jay said:

What are you two on about? He already clearly told us the profit difference, which is revenue minus cost. 

 

What part don't you understand? 

 

CDs obviously cost less than LPs to manufacture, nobody would ever suggest otherwise. 

 

CDs sell for $20. LPs for $40. Hence, with production costs factored in for each, they make 3x the profit from from a 1000 unit LP sellout vs a 1000 unit CD sellout. 

 

It's not complicated. 

 

I missed the word "profit", no need to be rude about it.

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5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I missed the word "profit", no need to be rude about it.

 

Even if we did every unit wholesale through a distributor the profit is better than a wholesale CD. Say all 1,000 of a run sell through. Lps are non returnable (stores who buy stock cannot return their dead inventory) while CDs are and that also kills profitability as those return eat into the money a label receives. Other factors come into play: did we license this with an advance vs having rights and previous sales paying that advance off, having perpetuity or long term rights, no advance deal?

 

The margins still are better on an LP that sells 1000 units than a CD. The only time I'd say a CD blows away an LP in margin is if we sell over 2000 on the website. That is, if we sell over 2000 units anymore.

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