Jump to content

What is the last GREAT theme?


Quintus

Recommended Posts

I'm in the "Hedwig's Theme is JW's last great theme" camp.

I'll buy that. There are good themes in HP3, but Hedwig's is probably the most far reaching and seminal.

I thought Harry Potter was much more than a niche thing like Twilight. I mean every kid and most adults in the world read the books and the movies are the highest grossing franchise ever

You underestimate the purchasing power of the romantic teenage/20-something girl with low self-esteem and suppressed sexual needs. HP may be more appealing, with its solid stories, excellent cast, and slick look, but it is still high fantasy and those are long movies, and the books are longer. It's not something everybody can or wants to get into. Not every kid in the world read it. Like I told you, some individuals hate it.

Highest grossing franchise ever? Not yet. According to Box Office Mojo, the Star Wars franchise (7 films, counting the Clone Wars) has grossed $1.918 billion, while the Harry Potter franchise (6 films) has grossed $1.713 billion. After that comes James Bond (22 films) at $1.608 billion.

Now if you do the math, Harry Potter is on pace to become the highest grossing franchise, because its average per movie is the highest of the three franchises. Additionally, three of those Star Wars movies were re-released two decades later, which gained them more money, but I would consider them to be different movies. HP's box office strength is on first-run of six movies, which gives it momentum.

At least those numbers are all adjusted. Otherwise I would contend that HP is so high grossing just because ticket prices keep going up. Someday the Avatar franchise will sit on top, but only because of all those millions of 3-D ticket sales.

you're being US centric, forgetting that the Harry Potter phenomenon is world wide and world wide Harry Potter has brought in quite a bit more than Star Wars. Perhaps in adjusted grosses it may be Star Wars, but the figures are in standard dollars not adjusted.

Hedwigs theme is the last big theme to break into public being.

Mark, do you really believe what you just said, that there hasn't been any great themes in 30 years? That would mean that nothing from The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders, E.T., TOD, 84 Olympics, Empire of the Sun, LC, Hook, Home Alone and Jurassic park, or Schindler's List. Surely there is one or two great themes in there, not to mention the other great composers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 76
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

According to my experiences, "He's a Pirate" from PotC is a very popular theme with the casual viewer. Yes, sometimes there's someone who think it's the music from Gladiator, but that's it.

"Hedwig's Theme" is also quite recognizable by people who are not into film music, especially kids (and that's great imho).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably something, yes. Though no one theme in particular, methinks. I think there have been several great themes. Not culturally iconic ones, no, but considering how little the public cares about film music, that doesn't really trouble me. Re: Titanic- yes, the song is the theme, but its iconic as a song. I can't think of any time, outside of a film-music centric event (or part of an event), that the score proper was used as a bit of iconography.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to my experiences, "He's a Pirate" from PotC is a very popular theme with the casual viewer. Yes, sometimes there's someone who think it's the music from Gladiator, but that's it.

And they'd only be half wrong, if that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure which of the themes in that track you're referring to, but the new theme Zimmer wrote for Jack in the second film is one of the most obnoxious Zimmer themes I've ever heard. And I say that as someone who definitely does enjoy some Zimmer - even the first Pirates score. (I know, I'm a real infidel.) Sometimes I get really frustrated and confused about why Zimmer went to all the trouble of writing a new theme when Jack Sparrow already had a perfectly good theme in the first film.

Then I remember that Jack Sparrow isn't in Dead Man's Chest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think some people are just reading the thread title and skipping Quint's initial post. This thread is about how recognizable a theme is, not how great it is from your perspective. Music from Empire of the Sun, Home Alone, Schindler's List, etc., may have some great themes, but not in the way Quint means.

With that in mind, I'll say probably "He's a Pirate," with an honorable mention to "Hedwig's Theme." I'll also add that as much as I love the latter, it's nowhere near as popular as Indy, Star Wars, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm thinking along the lines of Jerome Moross' BIG COUNTRY, John Williams' E.T.: THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL and Horner's TITANIC.

Big iconic pieces of movie music which transcend the movie itself and pass firmly into the realm of popular culture. Someone needs to remind me of whatever managed it, post Titanic, 'coz I've obviously forgotten already.

The Big Country is as popular and recognizable (or was at the time) as ET or Titanic?

News to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure which of the themes in that track you're referring to, but the new theme Zimmer wrote for Jack in the second film is one of the most obnoxious Zimmer themes I've ever heard.

Then I remember that Jack Sparrow isn't in Dead Man's Chest.

I mean the faster one that appears in all 3 films (and at the start of Fog Bound)

But if going by how recognisable a theme is, it's gotta be Hedwig's theme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mostly girls bought it

Girls bought it for the song, but soundtrack fans bought it because it was Horner at the top of his game.

It's on my iPod. My brother will never admit he bought the CD.

I've never had a problem admitting to owning Titanic. I've been a fan of the movie (and the vessel itself) since 1997 and I got the soundtrack as soon as I could, also being a film (mostly JW) score fan back then. It's one of the rare non-JW scores I own, a list that also includes the Elfman Batmans, ST First Contact and the Back to the Futures. Parts of it annoy the heck out of me, other parts are simply wonderful. I consider Titanic the last big Hollywood epic, and certainly Horner's score provided a fitting musical backdrop. You've got the mystery, romance, drama, action, thrills, chills and memorable themes. It's kind of a relic of the waning days of a bygone age for film music. I don't really like anything anymore, even JW's output of the last few years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you're being US centric, forgetting that the Harry Potter phenomenon is world wide and world wide Harry Potter has brought in quite a bit more than Star Wars. Perhaps in adjusted grosses it may be Star Wars, but the figures are in standard dollars not adjusted.

All I did was cut and paste numbers from Box Office Mojo. Please find a disclaimer at their site to clarify whether their numbers indicate data from solely American theaters or include global theaters.

If a ticket costs $3 in 1977 and the movie makes $300 million, I am impressed. If a ticket costs $6 in 2010 and the movie makes $450 million, I am not as impressed.

Sure, Harry Potter has made a lot of money, because ticket prices are going up as the value of our money goes down.

-+-

Probably Hedwig's theme. If you whistle that in public everyone is going to know what it is and where it came from. The "He's a Pirate" theme is very popular, but I don't think it has as much instantaneous familiarity.

You see, it all depends on what kind of people you deal with. All of my friends went to see the Pirates movies in the theaters, and would recognize the music quite easily. It's loud, bombastic, and sounds cool blaring on massive speakers in public at sports games. What does Hedwig's Theme sound cool associated with? Other than Harry Potter, NOTHING. These friends of mine did not see the Harry Potter movies, and could not give a flying fuck about any of the music. Let me be frank: I know people who couldn't give a flying fuck about Hedwig's Theme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Play those tinkling notes from the Home Alone intro and most people will shout "Potter"!

The problem with HEDWIG'S THEME is simply that it's three melodies (if you count the bridge). The celeste part is only the first, if you take the SCHINDLER-like progression, i doubt much people would recognize this part of the theme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HP is a big phenomenon regardless of Williams .

Whatever one thinks about the films, you cannot ignore the fact that J.W.'s music played a significant part in the success of the films, and has also permeated the public consciousness in the same way that his music has for countless other successful films (and in much the same way that Hooper's music has not). This could be an interesting side thread: many films have had great scores that match what's on screen, but how many have truely taken on a life of their own, away from the films that they support?

As for the last great theme; I would have to go back to either "E.T"., or main title from "The Final Conflict".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've played the island fanfare from Journey to the Island to people, who say "That's Star Wars isn't it?".

But that same person also listened to the brass bit, just before the Blue World theme, from The Great Eatlon, and said it sounded like Harry Potter.

I don't think you can generalise this - depends whether someone even recognises film music, and what franchises they're into.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still don't understand why I'm on John Williams board defending one of John Williams best themes against a bunch of people who think He's a Pirate is better and more "cool"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who is saying that "He's a Pirate" is better? We're saying that it's more recognizable to the general public, which, as I understand it, is the purpose of this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think you can generalise this - depends whether someone even recognises film music, and what franchises they're into.

In 1977, any person on the street knew how to hum or whistle Star Wars. Try this today with Potter and people will react with a blank stare.

In 1978, any person on the street knew how to hum or whistle Theme From Dallas. Try this today with no matter what TV series and people will point and scream, Invasion Of The Body Snatchers-style.

In 1979, ...

In 1980, ...

Alex

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.