Source Music and You

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

So I was thinking lately of source music.

I usually listen to the "Temple of Doom" and "Anything Goes" tracks in my TOD playlist. I remember when the Indy set came out, some people were upset that the "Anything Goes" source music wasn't in the "Nightclub Brawl" track. I'd like both versions, but I'll admit that I'm not bothered by the album version. I kind of hoped that the palace music when they go to dinner would have been included. But then I thought of ROTJ.

Technically, the Ewok horns aren't source music, but the "First Ewok Battle" never sounds quite right to me when the Ewoks attack and there isn't any battle fanfare. Maybe a bad example. When it comes to ROTJ source music, I actually desire it all. I just rarely listen to it. When I was previously in the mood, I'd program it all with the orchestral score on my playlist. I haven't been in such a mood for a long time now.

"Fluffy's Harp" and TPM source music from the UE are useless tracks to me.

My Titanic playlist includes the source music that is featured in the film in chronological order alongside the orchestral score. For me, it's a part of the whole experience.

I'm curious where people stand when it comes to source music. Do you find it necessary under certain circumstances? Is it blasphemous to mention such music when it comes to us stuffy classical score nerds?

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

The Gungan march original version does not need the gungan horns.

But I think the film version benefits from those, and the OST track 'lacks' something.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Great topic. I think it comes down to me on a case-by-case basis, usually on how much I like the music or how important I feel to the score it is, and also the cue's length. With ROTJ, I love all the Ewok source music, but the Jabba's palace stuff turns me off. If I'm editing my own album, unless it's mega, mega important, I'll put the source music at the end if I want to include it. For my Indy edits, I put all the source music (aside from the instrumental Anything Goes) on the last disc with all the alternates.

[Marian Schedenig 8,159]

"Fluffy's Harp" and TPM source music from the UE are useless tracks to me.

But Fluffy's Harp isn't source music. It's a concert piece which adds a bassoon part to the solo harp from the film score. Very witty, I think.

[Greg1138 3]

Not blasphemous in the slightest.....like you - it depends on the mood one is in...

[indy4 155]

For me, it's just like any other type of music. If it's a good listening experience outside the film I like it. If it's not, I don't.

[Diego 21]

Well, it depends for me. For example I couldn't listen to Star Wars without the Cantina Band, which technically is source music, I also quite like Jabba's Baroque Recital, on the other hand stuff like "Luthor's Luau" I never listen to.

[ChuckM 1]

It just depends on whether or not I like the source music. It's the same as with whatever pop songs are included. Much of them I will cut out, but I'm likely to leave some in.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

"Fluffy's Harp" and TPM source music from the UE are useless tracks to me.

But Fluffy's Harp isn't source music. It's a concert piece which adds a bassoon part to the solo harp from the film score. Very witty, I think.

Well that's interesting to know, but I still don't like it.

[Datameister 2,034]

"Fluffy's Harp" and TPM source music from the UE are useless tracks to me.

But Fluffy's Harp isn't source music. It's a concert piece which adds a bassoon part to the solo harp from the film score. Very witty, I think.

Contrabassoon, technically. Even wittier!

As for source music in general...I dunno. My opinions vary from score to score and from time to time.

[Trent B 337]

Generally nearly all of source music tends to drive me up the wall. I will either not include it or just skip it in general for when putting onto my iPod.

The source music for The Phantom Menace is the worst source music ever.

[John Crichton 4]

Luthor's Luau may be my favorite piece of Williams' source music. That or both Cantina Bands, and those are the only ones I listen to regularly.

[Andy 4,071]

Stu Phillips is the Master of Source Music. His Battlestar Galactica disco cues are the best. And don't forget "Something Kinda Funky" from Buck Rogers. Get down!

[Incanus 5,713]

The source music or diegetic music is an interesting topic. For me personally it really depends on the film and the feel of the music in conjunction with the actual score. Usually diegetic or source music is very much in the backgroud, composed either with deliberate intention or for general purpose to create a suitable soundscape for a scene. Source music tends to be more tied to the reality of the film than the score, representing the actual music of this world the film makers are trying to create so it is by nature different from the score. In some films this is achieved by period songs (these tend to be more than background music though) but sometimes the composer is requested to write some original music. And this music can vary from pop or rock song playing on the radio to a main character playing an instrument (Davey Jones playing an organ in PotC, Hagrid playing the recorder in HPPS, many characters playing the violin in the Red Violin). The music can be part of the score, meaningful or mood filler. So of course the way we react to it varies from case to case and from film to film. In some instances the source music is so integral part of the experience for me, it becomes part of the score experience as well. Sometimes I do not really care for it as it is so different in style and mood from the score that it distracts from the music.

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is a good example where the diegetic music is near inseparable from the score. Anything Goes is the first piece of music we hear in the film, it becomes sort of a musical motif for the whole night club sequence and Williams with great humor inserts it into his own composition as a wink and a nod to the absurdity of the pit orchestra playing it during the fight, creating a cartoony ballet feel for the scene. I have always thought it to be a very integral part of that musical joke.

The music for the Temple itself, the sacrificial chant, beyond exhibiting Williams' versatility and musical inspiration and skill, becomes part of the score later in the film as it musically relates to Mola Ram as he is trying to rip Indy's heart from his chest of course reminding us of the sacrifice in the temple but at the same time of Mola Ram's supernatural powers. It is simply iconic music, easily identifiable and dramatically apt.

In these cases I personally can't or won't separate the score from source music but on the other hand I never ever think the Indian diegetic music heard in the palace as something I would like to hear outside the film, not even for completeness' sake.

An example where I gladly accept source into the score listening experience is LotR where the diegetic music, while different from the score, somehow fits into the overall picture of the music, enhancing the listening experience for me.

In AotC and KotCS I accept the source music (at the end of Jango's Escape and The Journey to Akator respectively) as a part of the score, somehow separate but at the same time continous whole because of their function and overall feel.

Source music in many cases is of course not meant to be heard on its own (some would say the same about film music in general). It is mostly musical fluff. It provides a soundscape, back background of musical reality, wallpaper. Every composer who has ever composed source music must have written something terrible or cheesy but functional for their films. Then there are iconic moments from iconic movies where source is elevated from this wallpaper status to a part of the phenomenon, a case in point being The Cantina Band from Star Wars or the Sacrificial Chant from ToD.

Fluffy's Harp on the HPPS soundtrack is a bit different case as it is a concert arrangement of source music, Williams has turned it into a part of his Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra and dramatic musical story telling, playing on the idea of the magical harp and the contrabassoon representing the slumbering giant dog. So if you do not happen to like harp and contrabassoon duet then it won't work for you.

Also there are films where source music is the score like in Cinderella Liberty where the composer blurs the borders between the two and where the preference for this kind of source music dictates do you like the score or not.

So for me the preference of source music in my listening experience or my general soundtrack experience varies from film to film, how much I feel the source is part of the overall feel, how well it is integrated with the score and how much impact the source has on me.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I cant stand LOTR's Hobbit tavern songs.

Why in the hell did they had to include laughs and cheers from the patrons and make the score sound like an awful DVD rip. that it is not a separated track but united gapless with another adds to this irkig notion.

I dont mind the solo chants (though FOTR's gandalf's and bilbo's i could do without) or instrumental folk music.

I dont mind either TPM's source music...i listened so many times the UE before joining here... that its inclusion feels natural...

[Richard Penna 3,667]

I'm generally not interested in source music. Most of the time they simply ruin the experience for me, especially if they have no thematic or stylistic continuity.

I'd have preferred the solo parts on LotR to have been just the music, andI nearly ripped something from one of the DVD menus to get rid of the last part of Gandalf's ditty.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Perhaps the ultimate source music track is "The Conversation" from CE3K.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

Perhaps the ultimate source music track is "The Conversation" from CE3K.

I'd go a bit further than that. It is clear that Spielberg intended that mankind and the E.T.s. communicate with each other through music. The fact that J.W. called the piece "The Conversation", adds to this intent. A character, at one point in the film, says: "What are we saying to each other?", to which the reply is: "It's the first day of school, fellas". If one looks at "The conversation" as just that: a conversation, then the cue is elevated above scource music, and even far above incidental music, to a vital portion of the script - it IS being spoken, but in a language that only the instruments making and the computers interpreting the music, and the E.T.s could understand.

For the ultimate source/incidental crossover, how about "The Long Goodbye"?

[John Crichton 4]

I cant stand LOTR's Hobbit tavern songs.

Why in the hell did they had to include laughs and cheers from the patrons and make the score sound like an awful DVD rip. that it is not a separated track but united gapless with another adds to this irkig notion.

That does bother me a bit, but the songs are fun to listen to. What annoys me the most is that they've had reverb applied to make it sound like they're singing in a concert hall instead of a little tavern!

The solo singing annoys me more, I wish they had been cut from the CRs. I always turn off the first disc of Fellowship when Viggo Mortensen's awful mumblesinging starts up.

[Richard Penna 3,667]

I get the impression they were trying to aim the set at more than just enthusiasts (those press releases were cringing to read), and I guess including the soloists is part of that appeal.

[Quintus 5,399]

The Rohirrim horns heard just before their charge in RotK are worked superbly into the musical soundtrack, so good in fact that I'd like them to be heard in the score.

But as everyone else seems to have said, it really depends on the particular movie and score. A similar discussion took place recently in the Back to the Future thread.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

The Rohirrim horns heard just before their charge in RotK are worked superbly into the musical soundtrack, so good in fact that I'd like them to be heard in the score.

very true

[jacksparrow900 32]

Theirs some source music I enjoy that shouldn't be seperate from the film like how can you not listen to that's for blashempy from last crusade without listening to the nazi march after that.

[Quintus 5,399]

Excellent choice. I can't help but like the music which plays during the book burning sequence - it's catchy as hell for one, but I would never be heard playing it outside of headphones.

Funnily enough Call of Duty 5: World at War helped to legitimise it abit - it was heard after every axis victory.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

yeah, damn catchy nazi march.

[Jacob 0]

It's not a Nazi march per se, actually.

[Quintus 5,399]

yeah, damn catchy nazi march.

A composer like Wagner gets away with being a classical legend simply because most don't know he was a raving Nazi and mainly because his music rocks regardless.

A situation which is even more fascinating than the actual music.

[Melange 446]

So I was thinking lately of source music.

All the late night smooth jazz moments from K.A.B radio in The Fog (1980) which are delightfully on the Boot version.

It's great to have those because they played such a role in the movie along with Carpenter's actual score itself.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

It's not a Nazi march per se, actually.

yes thanks for remembering.

Still i'm not playing it aloud in the house with windows open, just in case

Hmmm it's the same as with the spanish National anthem. It predates our last dictatorship by 300-odd years, but it was so used and enforced during it that, though its more or less catchy, it has an unpleasant fascit stench in the subsconcious mind of people that make it hard to embrace and openly express liking for it.

[Maglorfin 196]

Personally, I tend to like, respect and listen to all the source music, one can find a lot of great stuff in this "department". I always like it when it can be found on soundtracks and I must say that Luthor's Luau is one of my all-time favourite source cues.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I don't care about source music.

[Ollie 1,059]

If it's originally composed by the composer for the film then I'll listen to it, in most cases.

Now there are some source cues that is crap, like Jedi Rocks.