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La-La Land releasing David Arnold's Independence Day


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Say what you will, but ID4 is on a selective list of scores I can listen to all the way thru without skipping cues.

I agree and I am the same way when it comes to the score for ID-4.

I don't get the mentality of this board, that if you don't think Williams is "god" or that if you think another composer is better than him then you're practically labeled an out-cast. I know that sounds strange but it seems to be the mentality of this board lately. Grant not with all of you, only some of you.

Honestly in MY opinion, I don't think Williams is the best film score composer and I do think there are others that are better than him.

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I don't get the mentality of this board, that if you don't think Williams is "god" or that if you think another composer is better than him then you're practically labeled an out-cast. I know that sounds strange but it seems to be the mentality of this board lately. Grant not with all of you, only some of you.

Honestly in MY opinion, I don't think Williams is the best film score composer and I do think there are others that are better than him.

With more and more new and old people here saying coments like that LATELY, i can hardly believe that you are regarded as an outcast when you say them. You dont know how much this site has changed since 2001.

In fact, i think that the John Williams fan is an endangered species, and in the near future this place may end up changing its name...

BTW, it would never occur to me to join Hans-Zimmer.com or the hornershine to express my actual opinion of those composers and talk mainly about the good deeds of Williams. There is a reason i am here and not there, but maybe that's just me.

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Whew...on a whim, I just ordered ID4! I'd been debating it, since the price seemed steep...but all this talk of it possibly being the best score of its entire decade convinced me. I doubt I'll wholly agree with that statement, but I think I'll certainly enjoy it, based on the samples and on what I remember from the film.

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Whew...on a whim, I just ordered ID4! I'd been debating it, since the price seemed steep...but all this talk of it possibly being the best score of its entire decade convinced me. I doubt I'll wholly agree with that statement, but I think I'll certainly enjoy it, based on the samples and on what I remember from the film.

Ya I bet you'll thoroughly enjoy the score once you get it. I always find myself listening to it all the way through most of the time.

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I don't get the mentality of this board, that if you don't think Williams is "god" or that if you think another composer is better than him then you're practically labeled an out-cast. I know that sounds strange but it seems to be the mentality of this board lately. Grant not with all of you, only some of you.

Honestly in MY opinion, I don't think Williams is the best film score composer and I do think there are others that are better than him.

With more and more new and old people here saying coments like that LATELY, i can hardly believe that you are regarded as an outcast when you say them. You dont know how much this site has changed since 2001.

In fact, i think that the John Williams fan is an endangered species, and in the near future this place may end up changing its name...

sleepy.gif

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I think having discussions that just cater to Williams and Williams only would be dull. One of the things that makes this board fun is the varied array of topics and interests here.

Look at some of the other forums devoted to composers.... ;):sleepy: :sleepy:

It may days / weeks in between posts. Most of us here love Williams and think he's the best in his profession.

But my love and appreciation for him has opened up a whole new world of film music. I love film music, but Williams is my favorite and is responsible for directing my time and energy to all this great music for films.

Williams is the bulk of discussion here, it's not like he's being pushed off this board. But I believe in order to appreciate you also have to be able to be critical.

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There's nothing wrong with being critical of JW, but I don't anybody in this thread who is claiming that JW is a flawless God. There's a difference between liking most of JW's scores over ID4's score and thinking he's a diety.

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But my love and appreciation for him has opened up a whole new world of film music. I love film music, but Williams is my favorite and is responsible for directing my time and energy to all this great music for films.

We didn't drive to Ft. Worth to get an autograph and handshake for nothing!

It's hard to constantly talk about Williams when there's little fresh to bring to the discussion. With Williams' decreased output and the general crappines of film scoring in general lately, it's releases like these that are going to get our attention.

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Well I suppose for those who can dissect music or are blessed with a strong musical education, discussing Williams would be no problem.

However, while I do find some of it interesting to read, I think those discussions tend to drift towards a "Williams is God" mentality and no one else is capable of doing as well or better.

And that's something that might even cause Williams to give someone stern tongue lashing. Although I just can't picture him getting really mad. :blink:

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And that's something that might even cause Williams to give someone stern tongue lashing. Although I just can't picture him getting really mad. ;)

He'd use really, really big words. :blink:

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:blink:

Anyhoo back to this wonderful release by LaLaLand.

I can't stop playing tracks 2 & 3 on disc 2. When I saw the film originally, & it's subsequent releases on Laserdisc and DVD, it sounded like there was some tracking and looping in those scenes, but the music is all newly composed.

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The sound on this set is fantastic. I was thinking last night how numbed I've become to these huge releases. Less than a year ago I would have been pinching myself "ID4! I can't believe this!". Now it's just the latest in the long line of gloriousness.

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:blink:

Anyhoo back to this wonderful release by LaLaLand.

I can't stop playing tracks 2 & 3 on disc 2. When I saw the film originally, & it's subsequent releases on Laserdisc and DVD, it sounded like there was some tracking and looping in those scenes, but the music is all newly composed.

Ya there definitely is tracking and looping going on with those two cues in the film. I can't get enough of those cues as well. ;) I absolutely love that music for the score.

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Disc 2, tracks 1-4 have definitely gotten 3x as much play as the rest of the album for me. Love it all.

Though his original approach was good too.

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The whole finale is one stunning piece of work. It's scored action specific, but doesn't feel mickey-mousey. The stuff inside the mothership is also wonderfully atmospheric; there's so much within this 20 mins or so of film that I can connect the music to.

On Trent's point, the main thing that aggravates me above all is when anyone says "well score xyz is good, but Williams would've give us a masterpiece." That may have been true during his golden years (70s, 80s etc), but those were his moments, and I think he's passed the point where other composers are matching him in quality.

Everything, and I mean everything that I credit to JW as making him a great composer I hear in ID4.

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and I think he's passed the point where other composers are matching him in quality.

Where are they? Are they scoring films? because i can only think of two or three.

What about when people would have prefered to hear Arnold's The Patriot instead of the Williams version?

Nobody gets aflame? :thumbup:

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Disc 2, tracks 1-4 have definitely gotten 3x as much play as the rest of the album for me. Love it all.

Though his original approach was good too.

I feel exactly the same! I keep playing those tracks over and over and over again! So much going on in all of them, and the exhilaration is hard to match! But I admit, when I first heard the film version of "The Day We Fight Back", I was a bit iffy on if I liked it better than the original version or not. I still DO love the original version. In a way it does actually flow better, especially with the grand moments. It's almost like a concert piece version. But the film version is WAY more "oh this is kick-ass!" adrenaline-surged awesomeness!

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This is a marvellous score. I guess I'm just not over my bombast phase yet, but this really makes me long for 1990s film scoring to return. I think the closest example to a recent score in the ID4 vein is Giacchino's Star Trek - I really like that one too. I was especially excited to read in the ID4 liner notes that Arnold sees Dawn Treader as his chance to return to the same scoring style as ID4 - that's incredibly promising!

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Me too. This score is too much fun. Since when did it become so sheik to hate on the bombast? Bombast is underrated.

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Bombastic scores are my favorites, for sure. Though ape-shit insane action scoring like TEMPLE OF DOOM almost tops it. I think of a score like that as entirely different kind of bombast.

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Oh yes, I do love Cutthroat Island, especially the Prometheus 2 CD version, of course, if only because it has the entire battle music at the end! That track is just 18 minutes of bombastic and dramatic glory, that is only matched or topped by scores like ID4. Which there aren't really THAT many to go around that come that close.

Although I still stand by this year's How To Train Your Dragon as having the most honest bombast I have heard in a looong time.

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Both scores are great, but ID4 leaves Cutthroat Island in the dust, on a desert island to die, and burns all the rum.

I hope so - Cutthroat Island has never appealed to me as much as I expected it too. I can't pinpoint what it does wrong...I mean, it's good music with a real orchestra, but somehow I just don't really enjoy the score as a whole. Perhaps it's just too repetitive. I have high hopes for ID4, though.

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Yeah, I've mimicked the OST in a playlist, and I think I agree. Which is sad, because I'm such a big supporter of complete soundtrack releases! :P Just goes to show that there's value in both methods of presentation, I suppose...which is why I wish every film score would receive a single-CD release that then gave you the option of downloading the complete, unedited score in a lossless (or high-bitrate) format, perhaps for another few dollars.

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Yeah, I've mimicked the OST in a playlist, and I think I agree. Which is sad, because I'm such a big supporter of complete soundtrack releases! tongue.gif Just goes to show that there's value in both methods of presentation, I suppose...which is why I wish every film score would receive a single-CD release that then gave you the option of downloading the complete, unedited score in a lossless (or high-bitrate) format, perhaps for another few dollars.

I think you're on to something here. I think it always depends on a specific score as to how it should be presented. Intrada's Alien is a fantastic presentation, in a way that works for that score.

However there are some releases where I'm not that worried about getting it complete or expanded.

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It's still 100% worth it for every release to be released in complete form. I can always edit a 80 minute or less OST myself any time I want.

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I think what bothers me is when I hear a movie, I may not want ALL the music everytime, but I really want specific parts. And of course, 90% of the time, when the OST comes out, there are at least 2 or 3 cues not on there I was looking for. In fact sometimes an OST comes ANNOYINGLY close to being sufficient enough, save for those extra few tracks. My personal example is JURASSIC PARK. The OST does indeed have most of the desirable cues, save for 2. The most desired one by me is the T-Rex Jeep Chase cue and the one that plays when Tim and Lex are getting into the tour cars before they go on the tour.

These cues weren't very long, but they were highlights that stood out to me in the film that I expected to hear on the album at some point. There definitely would have been room for them, especially if they hadn't included one of the most pointless tracks on a soundtrack CD ever: the End Credits. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? They literally just took the 2nd half of "Welcome to Jurassic Park" and slapped it at the end of the album. A complete copy/paste job, and a waste of 3 minutes. To this day it is the glaring problem of another-wise good album.

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Exactly, Jay - better to provide too much music than not enough. And, if everyone just adopted the system I described, you could have your cake and eat it, too. You'd listen to the OST, and if you liked it and wanted to hear the whole thing...well, you've already paid for the right to listen to the composer's intellectual property, and all you'd need to do is pay a little more so that you could download the complete score. Even if just a thousand customers took advantage of it, no money would be lost, since the only cost for uploading the complete score would be for the online storage space and bandwidth. Not a very steep cost at all. Creating complete soundtrack CDs is a risk, because you don't know if you'll end up pressing more copies than the market is interested in, but digital distribution - again, hopefully in a lossless format - makes even the most obscure complete releases totally feasible.

EDIT: Yeah, you're right, scallenger - the "End Credits" track is the exact same take of the actual end credits cue, just duplicated on the CD with the first half chopped off. "Theme from Jurassic Park" is also the exact same take heard in "Journey to the Island", just with a different intro. Though that one's much more understandable, considering the general public's lack of interest in anything beyond the "theme songs", I still would have MUCH preferred to hear the unreleased music. In fact, if they'd decided not to repeat any material whatsoever, literally the entire complete score could have fit on a single CD.

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Exactly, Jay - better to provide too much music than not enough. And, if everyone just adopted the system I described, you could have your cake and eat it, too. You'd listen to the OST, and if you liked it and wanted to hear the whole thing...well, you've already paid for the right to listen to the composer's intellectual property, and all you'd need to do is pay a little more so that you could download the complete score. Even if just a thousand customers took advantage of it, no money would be lost, since the only cost for uploading the complete score would be for the online storage space and bandwidth. Not a very steep cost at all. Creating complete soundtrack CDs is a risk, because you don't know if you'll end up pressing more copies than the market is interested in, but digital distribution - again, hopefully in a lossless format - makes even the most obscure complete releases totally feasible.

Agreed 100%.

I just can't picture anyone actually doing it from a business point of view - speciality labels are the few companies these days who actually care about score releases.

But also, that's exactly why I've argued that digital distribution makes so much sense. You don't need to anticipate demand at all, beyond making sure a server can handle traffic. Issue a score and only 100 people download it? No problems. Press 10000 CDs and only 100 people buy? Big problem.

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Exactly. The risks involved are practically negligible. Worst case scenario: no one's interested, so you take it off your server and stop paying storage fees.

Of course...I'm sure all the big labels would be concerned about the possibility of people sharing the files online. After all, if you release a physical CD, the files will never make it to the Internet... :P

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Pass.

That's what I think right now as well. It might change though.

Karol - who never listens to the old bootleg or even to the original album

It's not that the music isn't very good or anything; I find the movie dreadful, with ideologies I can't embrace, and I can't separate the movie from the music.

There's plenty of great, and better IMO, Arnold music already available.

Plus, like you said, I rarely even listen to the bootleg.

Ideologies? It's not like the movie was high-minded and chock full of subtext or anything. The only ideologiy I really saw on display in that movie was self-defense. If you can't embrace that one, well...

and the silly subplot with Alicia's boyfriend and not wanting to die a virgin had the lamest dialogue in the whole movie.

It is sooo awful, I cringe just thinking of it!

Can't wait for this CD release, aside from the terrific writing and orchestrations it also features some of the finest brass playing EVER! The Hollywood horns really excelled themselves with this one and I remember Nicholas Dodd telling me that the recording sessions were simply glorious!

I've got the score for the End Titles and extracted the 1st Trumpet part to play around with and it's unbelievably difficult. The range (repeatedly) goes up to a high E-- very unusual for orchestral players using C or Bb Trumpets-- with a lot of duple and triple tonguing at the same time. And you kinda need the lungs of an elephant to make it through the opening triplet fanfare sequence. Not a lot of opportunity to sneak a breath in there without a noticeable dropout.

The brass in general did a phenomenal job on the entire score. I noticed in the list of players in the liner notes that the principal trumpet is Malcolm McNab. He's also the lead trumpet on the Raiders scores and a half dozen other scores I have where the musicians are listed. Must be a pretty reliable and talented guy to be in such demand. It's not like Hollywood isn't overflowing with musical talent.

I think what bothers me is when I hear a movie, I may not want ALL the music everytime, but I really want specific parts. And of course, 90% of the time, when the OST comes out, there are at least 2 or 3 cues not on there I was looking for. In fact sometimes an OST comes ANNOYINGLY close to being sufficient enough, save for those extra few tracks. My personal example is JURASSIC PARK. The OST does indeed have most of the desirable cues, save for 2. The most desired one by me is the T-Rex Jeep Chase cue and the one that plays when Tim and Lex are getting into the tour cars before they go on the tour.

These cues weren't very long, but they were highlights that stood out to me in the film that I expected to hear on the album at some point. There definitely would have been room for them, especially if they hadn't included one of the most pointless tracks on a soundtrack CD ever: the End Credits. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? They literally just took the 2nd half of "Welcome to Jurassic Park" and slapped it at the end of the album. A complete copy/paste job, and a waste of 3 minutes. To this day it is the glaring problem of another-wise good album.

Another cue I like is the little homage Williams did to Looney Tunes-style cartoon music for the animated sequence which shows the main characters how the dinosaurs were created. You can barely hear it in the film, but I engraved the score into Finale and played it back and it's fantastic. Would have been nice to have that on the album, too.

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Independence Day - Alternate album (in both senses of the word):

01 1969: We Came in Peace (Alternate) 2.06

02 Destroyers Disengage (No Choir) 0.34

03 Cancelled Leave (Alternate) 1.44

04 Commence Lift-off (Alternate) 0.55

05 Lock and Load / Base Attack (Film Version) 6.13

06 Marilyn Found (No Choir) 1.29

07 Target Remains (Alternate) 2.41

08 Target Remains (Film Version) / Rescue 4.53

09 Dad's a Genius (Alternate) 0.45

10 The President's Speech (Unused Take) 3.10

11 Attacker Fires Up (Original Version) 2.01

12 Mutha Ship (Film Version) / Virus Uploaded (Alternate) 6.59

13 The Day We Fight Back (Alternate) 5.49

14 Jolly Roger (Alternate) 3.22

15 Victory (Unused Take) 3.34

16 End Credits (No Choir) 9.07

Since the entire LaLaLand edition is too long, I'm playing the LaLaLand album (until disc 2, track 7) when I want to hear and have time for the complete score; and this album when I'm in the mood for a shorter listening experience. Best of both worlds!

With thanks to Trent and Jason for their breakdown.

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If you're putting the score on an iPod or some other similar device, I would edit the ending of the film version for "Base Attack" into the main score" then edit the alternate one as an alternate.

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No, I'm still working with ancient media like CDrs ;)

I don't really mind the alternate in the main body of the score, really: the Lalaland plays nicely as it is (so it'd be superfluous work for me + superfluous waste of CDrs). I even like the original versions of the finale better than the rescored ones, so ideally I'd even put those alternates back in the main body of the score. Another reason, for me, to play my alternates album regularly!

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