Lost

[Datameister 2,037]

I thought I remembered them saying that the final scene(s) in the the church were also part of what JJ conceived very early on. But I can't find any evidence of that now; maybe I misremembered.

[oierem 151]

23 minutes ago, Datameister said:

I thought I remembered them saying that the final scene(s) in the the church werr also part of what JJ conceived very early on. But I can't find any evidence of that now; maybe I misremembered.

Nope. Here Lindelof explains how the flash-sideways idea originated somewhere around season 4.

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, Datameister said:

I thought I remembered them saying that the final scene(s) in the the church were also part of what JJ conceived very early on. But I can't find any evidence of that now; maybe I misremembered.

I remember this as well, and it was cited as the reason why Shannon and other Season 1 characters were in the church. 

[Tallguy 3,381]

13 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

I remember this as well, and it was cited as the reason why Shannon and other Season 1 characters were in the church. 

 

That's not because they wrote it at the beginning. It's because the final scene was a callback to the entire series.

 

That's a bit like saying that O'Brien was in the Star Trek: The Next Generation finale because they conceived the idea at the same time as Encounter at Farpoint.

 

On 13/03/2023 at 1:39 PM, Tallguy said:

Everyone here has seen the whole show, yeah? We're talking re-watches?

 

We watched it again about... three years ago? There are a few dead ends that I wish they had either pursued or wrapped up. The last season with Jacob meanders more than I wanted it to (when they should have been winding down rather than asking more questions).

 

But I will stand by the finale (the full version! There is a short version that is TERRIBLE) being probably the most satisfying finale I've ever seen. (I mean, Star Trek: The Next Generation might edge it out.) It hits all of the characters and lands every emotional beat that gets thrown at it. (I will say again: DO NOT WATCH THE EDITED VERSION.)

 

On 06/05/2023 at 9:22 PM, Tallguy said:

We watched it again a few years ago. It was amazing.

 

I watched the back half of season 1 "live" and then season 2 to 3. I don't remember where I dropped off. I just remember watching season 2 week to week was excruciating. Revisiting the aftermath of the season 1 finale from different view points for 3 or 4 weeks was awful. But binging it on disk was great!

 

We caught up on disk and then watched the last few seasons as they aired.

 

I have always considered the finale to be one of the finest things I have watched on TV. (The FULL episode, dammit!)

 

The only thing that was disappointing then that continues to be is the whole Jacob and the Man in Black story. It was too late in the game to be introducing MORE and it just landed flat, no matter how cool Titus Welliver was.

 

But for all that, the ending was two hours of saying goodbye to all the people that I had loved for however many years. And they pulled that off perfectly.

 

The last scene with Ben and Hurley is one of my favorite things in the entire series.

 

 

He's really just amazing. I remember watching the finale and saying "If Sawyer and Julia don't get a happy ending I will beat the show runners to death with one of James Burrows' Emmies." I can't think of a couple I have shipped harder.

 

Not only am I repeating myself, I'm getting less concise. I'm going to be so much fun in the home.

[oierem 151]

29 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

That's not because they wrote it at the beginning. It's because the final scene was a callback to the entire series.

 

Yes. Besides, none of those characters is essential to that scene. They are just there.

Whenever they concieved that scene, I doubt it was much more specific than "Every main character of the show is in the church greeting Jack and ready to move on". 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Oh I agree. There are only a handful of core plot elements that were carried through the entire series.

 

They didn’t even know what was in hatch when Season 1 ended. Ben was supposed to be a guest star for a few episodes. The magic of network TV!

[Tallguy 3,381]

I often forget what an amazing whirlwind Ben Linus was.

 

Then I watched him for four years on Person of Interest. Just as good if more likeable and a little more conventional.

[Tallguy 3,381]

On 05/05/2023 at 7:17 PM, Koray Savas said:

Sawyer is still one of my favorite fictional characters.

 

I just remembered the scene were Jack gave Sawyer the total runaround before telling him he needed glasses.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

On 09/05/2023 at 1:20 AM, Koray Savas said:

Oh I agree. There are only a handful of core plot elements that were carried through the entire series.

 

They didn’t even know what was in hatch when Season 1 ended. Ben was supposed to be a guest star for a few episodes. The magic of network TV!

 

And that kind of flexible plotting is far more commonplace than people realise. Both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul were only written one season at a time; any season cliffhangers were figured out when writing for the next began, and in the case of BB Jesse was intended to be killed off after the first episode The same happened in Barry; Bill Hader initially killed off NoHo Hank after a few episodes but was so enthralled by Anthony Carradine's performance that he became a regular, and arguably the emotional core of the show in the last few seasons.

 

It always annoyed me when I heard people complain that LOST should've been completely thought out from the very beginning, or that it was somehow a lesser show because the writers didn't plan everything from the start. That version of the show would've been terrible and wouldn't have lasted more than a couple of seasons. Good television is flexible and plays to the strengths of its actors and their chemistry; every scene with Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson is electric, so it's no wonder Ben became such a key figure in the show.

[Brónach 1,301]

it's true, but taken all together Lost feels like a meandering early draft

[Tallguy 3,381]

It's not an absolute. But I think there are probably a couple of things that should be nailed down as best you can. "THE CYLONS HAVE A PLAN!" What's the plan? Heck if I know. Isn't that a little important?

 

I admit, I'm annoyed about Walt. They hung a lot of early mystery box on that character. (The polar bear!) They should have figured out a different way to resolve that. Heck there wound up being enough timey-wimey in the show. Say he's older now.

 

What was up with Jack's dad and his ex?

 

I don't expect them to have it all nailed out ahead of time. But I do hate it when you have writers (J.J.) who say "Wow! That just blows your mind, right?" "Totally! What does it mean?" "I have no idea. Isn't that interesting?" "NO!"

 

(I will NOT drag another thread back to Star Wars.)

 

Not to contradict myself, I would have been happier without the "answer" of Jacob and The Man in Black. It wasn't really a good answer and of all the mysteries I never thought "What is the Island" was ever going to have an answer.

 

Still loved the show.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The mythology of Lost is my favorite part of the show. I love that we don’t get all the answers. We just get enough to know that what our characters experienced was a cyclical event that has always happened as far back in time and will happen as far into the future that we’ll ever know.

 

 

[Groovygoth666 650]

On 06/05/2023 at 9:26 PM, Koray Savas said:

I don’t think Abrams had much to do with the show outside of the pilot and the general premise.

 

It was Lindelof and Cuse that were the show runners. And yes, a lot of it was made up as it went along, but that makes the show much more satisfying, in my opinion. Some long running mysteries were poorly resolved, but on the whole, they made it all work quite well.

 

Again, it’s important to understand this show aired during an era where the norm was to run a series into the ground until it got cancelled.

 

Giacchino’s music is his magnum opus, and an important character in the show all on its own. 

Abrams was an executive producer throughout, so it's not a stretch that he would have had some input in any of the major story beats. 

 

With Lindelof and Cuse, I believe Lindelof got the job because of his online comments surrounding Felicity and how he predicted storylines and such. Not sure about Cuse though.

 

Lawrence Bender was also a major part of the creation/filming process as well so his part is often underplayed.

 

But I really do feel that Abrams and Lindelof subscribe to the mystery being more interesting than the answer. So with a show like Lost where multiple mysteries are created, the shows longevity is dependent on those mysteries either never being resolved or drawn out as long as possible.

 

But from a viewer perspective this is incredibly unsatisfying, a huge part of why people watch this type of show is not solely the story but the characters and how the mystery affects them.

 

So for the creatives to have a vague idea of where not only the story but characters are going it can become deeply unsatisfying because there was no clear resolution they were heading for.

 

That final season does try to not only handle but resolve many of those mysteries, but it often feels like they never intended to address them and what they come up with is often rushed/half baked.

 

And I really can't emphasize enough that last scene with Jack and where he lies down seeing the shoe in the bamboo, Vincent running by and Giacchinos music swelling utilizing the Life And Death theme after everything will always for me be the greatest scene scored for TV, like nothing has ever come close to it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

8 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

Lawrence Bender was also a major part of the creation/filming process as well so his part is often underplayed.

I think you mean Jack Bender. But agreed, seeing Written by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, Directed by Jack Bender at the start of an episode immediately let you know you were in for a great ride. 

[Brónach 1,301]

there were a bunch of great wild rides in there definitely

[Groovygoth666 650]

On 20/05/2023 at 11:15 AM, Koray Savas said:

I think you mean Jack Bender. But agreed, seeing Written by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, Directed by Jack Bender at the start of an episode immediately let you know you were in for a great ride. 

Yes you're right, Jack Bender (watched Pulp Fiction the other night and got myself confused)

 

Has Carlton Cuse done much since Lost?

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

34 minutes ago, Groovygoth666 said:

Has Carlton Cuse done much since Lost?

He was the show runner for Bates Motel. 

[Groovygoth666 650]

19 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

He was the show runner for Bates Motel. 

Ah yes that's right. Have you watched it?

[ddddeeee 245]

This is a grim read.

 

‘Lost’ Illusions: The Untold Story of the Hit Show’s Poisonous Culture | Vanity Fair

[SilverTrumpet 638]

On 07/05/2023 at 6:59 PM, oierem said:

Nope. Here Lindelof explains how the flash-sideways idea originated somewhere around season 4.

 

 

I'm kind of confused about what he's saying here. Is he implying that the island itself is a sort of an afterlife? I know thematically it was presented as one from the premiere ("It doesn't matter who we were") and all that, but I think he was saying the Not Penny's Boat thing was knowledge from the afterlife...

 

...or the show really doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 

[Datameister 2,037]

11 hours ago, ddddeeee said:

This is a grim read.

 

‘Lost’ Illusions: The Untold Story of the Hit Show’s Poisonous Culture | Vanity Fair

 

Damn, that's sad to read. The show certainly reserves the best treatment for a group of characters who "happen" to be white, athletic, straight, and predominantly male, but I still wanted to hope that this stemmed from … well, something other than overtly discriminatory horribleness behind the scenes. Like, I thought and said a lot of things in the mid-aughts that strike me now as pretty shitty, so I try to appreciate that people can change and grow. But still. Jesus.