Lost

[Datameister 2,042]

I greatly enjoyed his S2 appearances the first time I saw them, and I continue to enjoy them now. It was great having no idea if this guy was one of the Others or not, but it's also great to watch it now and watch with relish as "Henry" lies his way through every conversation.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Datameister 2,042]

^ That's the answer. Pretty simple.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Interesting that Rousseau didn't say "He's the one who took my baby !". Well, she did shoot him with an arrow, but still... I'm not completely satisfied with that ! (I know, I know, "They didn't know back then what they were going to do with "Henry Gale""...)

It's probably because he got older. They spent a lot of effort making Michael Emerson look younger. Y'know, they, um... they... They did his hair differently... and um... Yeah.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

From what I remember, Rousseau never even saw Ben. He snatched Alex while she was sleeping, and made a moral choice not to kill her and ran off.

[Datameister 2,042]

No, they had a conversation and everything. Ben told her to run the other way if she ever heard whispers.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I don't remember that at all

But then we could ask, why doesn't Rousseau remember Jin? I think if I saw the same aged guy 16 years later I'd freak.

[Incanus 5,714]

I don't remember that at all

But then we could ask, why doesn't Rousseau remember Jin? I think if I saw the same aged guy 16 years later I'd freak.

The woman was a wee bit mad you know. Conveniently so for the writers.

Oh and I was rewatching the series from Season 1 and spotted another "change from the foreign language to English" effects in a Sayid episode. In his first flashback in the Solitary he starts in Arabic and when the camera passes to the other side of the man interrogated he is speaking in English. So this dramatic trick was used before it was so much maligned and objected in Across the Sea.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Man, just thinking back, they really fucked up with the whispers. So much potential there. I don't understand why they went with the route they took. Made absolutely no sense. Hell, if they're just harmless spirits stuck on the island, why run from them? Why have them appear every time the MIB does? Every time someone pops up out of nowhere only to disappear a moment later? Wasted opportunity.

[Datameister 2,042]

Uh huh.

[Incanus 5,714]

Man, just thinking back, they really fucked up with the whispers. So much potential there. I don't understand why they went with the route they took. Made absolutely no sense. Hell, if they're just harmless spirits stuck on the island, why run from them? Why have them appear every time the MIB does? Every time someone pops up out of nowhere only to disappear a moment later? Wasted opportunity.

But what if that was the boring idea the writers always had for the whispers?

[Datameister 2,042]

They didn't. Originally, it was just going to literally be the Others whispering in the jungle. Then they decided to make it something more. I'm not sure when exactly they decided on the final answer, but I suspect it wasn't until pretty late in the game.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Man, just thinking back, they really fucked up with the whispers. So much potential there. I don't understand why they went with the route they took. Made absolutely no sense. Hell, if they're just harmless spirits stuck on the island, why run from them? Why have them appear every time the MIB does? Every time someone pops up out of nowhere only to disappear a moment later? Wasted opportunity.

But what if that was the boring idea the writers always had for the whispers?

Perhaps, but I seriously doubt it. In Season 2, the whispers are kinda of like spectators watching the survivors. I remember reading the translations on Lostpedia (they're simply people talking backwards), and when Sawyer chases the bore out of his tent and into the jungle and hears them for the first time, they're saying something like "What's Sawyer doing out here in the middle of the night?"

And of course there's Walt saying, "Don't push the button. The button is bad."

The whole way I saw it, the whispers were a result of some type of teleportation method The Others had on the island. When Goodwin's wife appeared to Juliet in the jungle, we heard the whispers and then there she was. I would have preferred if they left something like this open to interpretation.

[Red 75]

If you read the transcripts for the whispers the explanation for them makes more sense. It is fairly obvious from reading them what they were (chorus/commentary of the dead), but the seeming connection with the Others or the smoke monster doesn't really add up. But I don't have a problem chalking that up to coincidence and the Others being aware of them but not really knowing what they were.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

It may also be that the Others' presense prompted the ghosts to stir.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Two For The Road

My god this episode is good. The final scene with Michael killing Ana Lucia and Libby is astonishing, it left me shaking! Giacchino's dead silence goes to show how important it is to know when not to compose music. Not a single sound aside from the gunshots. Breathtaking television.

I have to link it. I've never experience this episode like this before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT1B1Uq40xY

[Datameister 2,042]

Definitely a shocking end to an episode, and brilliantly executed in every way - acting, writing, cinematography, editing, and yes, scoring. Honestly, Season 2 got really good in that second half there. It's not a perfect season, but dang, did it become amazing...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yep. I said it a little earlier in the thread. Once you hit "The Long Con," the rest of the season is as good as the series gets IMO. Even more amazing, Michelle Rodriguez is actually acting, and I feel for her. Genuine emotion. She should use that scene in her portfolio, although she doesn't really need it. People know what they get when they hire her.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

So I finally started moving along in the series. About halfway through Season 3. "Flashes Before Your Eyes" is a great fucking episode. Why are all the Desmond episodes so good?

Also, I'm finding the filler episodes like "Stranger In A Strange Land" and "Tricia Tanaka Is Dead" to not be so bad. While they don't move the primary narrative along, they've got some great character moments. Particularly the end of the former, with Hurley, Charlie, Sawyer, and Jin riding around in the VW.

[crocodile 8,012]

You know what? I just realized some of the slower episodes of Season 3 are much better now that we know the context for some things. Take "I Do" for example where Kate freaks out when she learns she might be pregnant. It taps very well into her character development and her motivations in Seasons 4-6 (her being a mother and looking for Claire). I mean, now it makes more sense, at least from the character point of view.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Agreed. Plus it has Nathan Fillion!

[crocodile 8,012]

Season 3 is definitely my favourite. A Tale of Two Cities, The Cost of Living, Not in Portland, Flashes Before Your Eyes, Tricia Tanaka Is Dead, Enter 77, The Man of Tallahassee, Expose, One of Us, Catch-22, The Brig, The Man Behind the Curtain, Greatest Hits, Through the Looking Glass are all awesome episodes. And the titles are great too.

The season might be slow, but the development of the characters is much deeper, like Koray said.

Karol - who also likes the infamous Stranger in a Strange Land episode (it connects very well to the Jack's lonely destiny and his choice in the finale)

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Expose? Really? I'll admit it was a good bit of fun seeing them killed off.

I agree with the rest of what you said. The Man From Tallahassee and The Man Behind The Curtain are two of the best episodes of the series.

[Datameister 2,042]

The filler episodes aren't bad. Some of them are actually quite good. The show definitely didn't need any more of them, so I'm glad they figured out where they were going, But I enjoy the ones that are there. And I think "Expose" is actually a great standalone episode - it has nothing to do with the rest of the show, but it's a very well put together little story that allowed them to kill off a mistake. It's entertaining.

I'm still on kind of a break from LOST, though. A wee bit burnt out. Eventually, I'll revisit the show from start to finish and thoroughly enjoy the memories, I'm sure, but right now, I've seen each episode so many times and I've been so disappointed by the ending that I don't really feel the need to watch the show.

[crocodile 8,012]

My understanding and appreciation of the show is more in tune with this quote from Across the Sea DVD commentary. Which is quite enlightening, actually:

"Again, thematically, to us, the idea of how one should enjoy and appreciate Lost has a lot to do with enjoying and appreciating the journey, as opposed to this notion of answers and destination. ln some sense, we thought people will see this episode and they'll say, "OK, this is what answers on Lost look like." You can get a mythological download. You may think you want a mythological download, but this is what a mythological download looks like."

That's why I wasn't disappointed with the end. I wasn't as interested in the "end game". It is quite obvious the show needs to boil down to... something. And as the grand picture it works quite well, thematically at least. I was kind of more open to all of it. In a of "naive audience" kind of way where you don't have your own expectations and you just watch the story unfold before my eyes.

Karol

[Jacob 0]

In the middle of season 3 also.

I've only seen each episode once before this, so in a lot of ways it's like watching it again for the first time.

The emotional parts still get me, and it's fun noticing little things like Widmore's name on Sun's pregnancy test.

And Giacchino's score is standing out a lot more.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,012]

Karol

[Datameister 2,042]

WUT.

Too bad it wasn't all the numbers, though...

[Jay 37,361]

Oh yea, I guess I never mentioned that here

This was instant news to me, cause everybody here at work played. I saw the numbers and was like hooooooly shit! Wish I had bought a ticket!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Finished Season 3 the other day. Goddamn I love the dialogue in this show. Jack talking to Tom on the radio, and then Sawyer's one-liner after he kills him. Perfect.

I don't remember, does Ben know that the MIB was in Jacob's cabin in The Man Behind The Curtain? Or did he actually think that was Jacob?

[crocodile 8,012]

From what I understand the cabin was used at some point by Jacob, but by that time MIB was already a lodger.

Karol

[Datameister 2,042]

Ben later admitted he was "pretending", and that he was as shocked as John when stuff actually started to happen. He sorta figured that was Jacob, I guess, but it was ostensibly the MIB, of course.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It's a crime that I've only watched Seasons 5 and 6 once, when they aired. Can't wait to blow through Season 4 and get to the good stuff.

[Jay 37,361]

Season 4 IS the good stuff

[crocodile 8,012]

I felt that season 4 took forever to get going and when something finally started to happen... it was over.

Karol

[Red 75]

I felt that season 4 took forever to get going and when something finally started to happen... it was over.

Karol

That is true, but it still had episodes like "The Constant" and "The Shape of Things To Come". The writer's strike had a lot to do with the shortcomings of that season.

[Datameister 2,042]

I felt that season 4 took forever to get going and when something finally started to happen... it was over.

Agreed. I think 4 and 6 are tied for the weakest seasons of the show...which is odd, because they sandwich what I believe to be one of the strongest seasons of the show...

[crocodile 8,012]

It's not that there wasn't a good-to-great material in there. But there was so much set up. And yes, I get this is because of the strike thing. But the finale was pretty good. Probably the best in terms of its filmic and epic quality.

Karol

[Datameister 2,042]

I like the finale, too. Lots of great pacing and tension and whatnot, and the score blows away the combined scores to all the rest of S4's episodes.

S4 was already at a disadvantage because it was the first season I watched live, rather than on DVD after the fact, and I usually feel a sense of sequel-itis when I "catch up" with a show like that. Then the Others were missing, which I really didn't like, and it was a pretty...joyless season. Not that season 5 was any happier, really, but it took a little while for me to get used to the show having a clear direction and abandoning those more lighthearted filler episodes.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think they knew it was MIB. They had him (or rather, a man) sitting in the chair, as well as a small cloud of smoke in it at one point during the commotion. They had the circle of ash, so to me that means they knew something was being kept in/out at that point, and what else would it be other than the smoke? And as we all know, the MIB was using Ben the whole time.

[crocodile 8,012]

Yeah, but then again Jacob's mercenaries are not sure who's using it (in the season 5 finale) and they were clearly looking for him in the cabin.

Karol

[Datameister 2,042]

Darlton knew something was there, but there's no evidence that they'd really worked out the details of who it was. I think they said something about the circle of ash at the time. Can't remember what exactly, but it wasn't a keeping-something-in-or-out idea. It was different.

Again, if we approach it with what we now know, it had to have been the MIB, and the (broken) circle of ash was what failed to keep him out of the cabin, which used to be Jacob's. But at the time, I don't think Darlton had that all worked out.

By the way, "The Man Behind the Curtain" remains one of my favorite episodes to this day. Season 3 got really, really, really good toward the end.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Definitely, Greatest Hits + Through The Looking Glass = Three helluva superb hours of television.

"That's for taking the kid off the raft."

Oooh, soo good. It's the turning point in the series, literally in that the writers figured out their endgame and starting moving towards it instead of away from it, and figuratively in that the characters finally start to carry some gravitas.

[Datameister 2,042]

Definitely, Greatest Hits + Through The Looking Glass = Three helluva superb hours of television.

Let's add "The Man Behind the Curtain" to the list.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

And "The Man From Tallahassee" and "The Brig."

"How 'bout that."

"How 'bout what?"

"Mine name's Sawyer too."

[crocodile 8,012]

"One minute I'm in a car wreck and the next minute I'm in a pirate ship in the middle of the jungle. If this isn't hell friend, then where are we?"

My favourite exchange from season 3:

Ben: What if I told you that somewhere on this island there is a very large box and whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted to be in it, when you open that box, there it would be. What would you say about that John?

Locke: I'd say that I hope that box is big enough for you to imagine up a new submarine.

Karol

[Datameister 2,042]

Yep, that whole last...fourth or third of the season is just amazing. That was when I REALLY started loving the show. (That's not to say that there aren't episodes from earlier in the show that I don't love equally now, but it took me a while to engage the first time through.)