Why did Goldsmith score so many shite movies?

[Quintus 5,399]

Just been watching a bit of The Haunting (remake) and eventually remembered that Jerry scored that piece of shit, just as he scored other movies of its calibre. To add insult to injury, the score of The Haunting is just as bad as the movie itself! Did he phone the notes in?

Seriously, it is little wonder that Goldsmith is nowhere near as famous and revered as John Williams, since the latter clearly has a greater degree of self respect and good taste! Compared to his deceased peer I mean, rest his soul.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I enjoyed The Haunting for what it was, but yeah, it's pretty awful. I miss Catherine Zeta Jones, though. What happened to her?

[Datameister 2,034]

Because his music was no better than the films it accompanied!

Kidding, of course. I'm really not sure why. Perhaps people who make crappy movies are statistically likely to enjoy the sort of music Goldsmith wrote.

[Quintus 5,399]

Goldsmith is like the Anthony Hopkins of movies scores. Williams? Well he's Olivier. Clearly!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Goldsmith is like the Anthony Hopkins of movies scores.

That's actually a pretty spot on comparison.

[Melange 446]

Why did Goldsmith score so many shite movies?

Because he didn't wear a turtlekneck?

[Wojo 2,453]

I'm guessing that if you're signed up to score a movie, but after you watch it, you back out saying "oh, I can't score this, your film's garbage," then you're not going to be invited to score many more movies.

[John Crichton 4]

Maybe he just didn't know a good movie from a crap one.

[ETMusic 1]

I think Goldsmith was a work-a-holic. He would rather be working on crap films and turning out tons of scores. JW seems to inclined to work on his own concert works (albeit very slowly) and play golf, than score tons of films. I'm pretty sure JG averaged 4-5 films a year while JW averages (averaged?) 1-2.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Probably because he wasn't up his own arse like John. But seriously, I imagine it's because he was never Spielberg's in-house composer. When you make very good scores for very popular movies you're bound to get more respect than the next guy (who in this case was Goldsmith), and get some of the choice projects offered to you first. Although like ETMusic said, Jerry certainly averaged more scores.

I think as well, while he's remembered for scoring crap movies, he scored a lot of very good movies too. They just don't usually have spaceships and lightsabers.

[publicist 4,643]

To add insult to injury, the score of The Haunting is just as bad as the movie itself! Did he phone the notes in?

Smear camapign! :cool:

The score is not awful. The VERTIGO harp isn't very inspired but the main theme as such has a very elegant tone, which elevates the movie whenver it appears over shots of the house.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

I guess that the question a composer asks is: "what can I bring to this movie?". Just think about all the bad movies that have brilliant Goldsmith scores. Some are my absolute favourites-"The Swarm", "Link", "Logan's Run". Maybe, J.G. was more prepared to step outside of his "comfort zone", than J.W. is.

I have a feeling that, although J.W. will always be the most popular composer that (possibly) will ever live, J.G. will be more revered than him.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

Why do people keep forgetting that Goldsmith scored so many good movies?

Anyway, The Haunting (remake) is a shit movie and the score as a whole is rather average, but it does have a wonderful main theme.

[John Crichton 4]

I think as well, while he's remembered for scoring crap movies, he scored a lot of very good movies too. They just don't usually have spaceships and lightsabers.

Why do people keep forgetting that Goldsmith scored so many good movies?

He did do his share of good movies, including at least one great one that could fight with any at the top of Williams' resume (Patton). His are just not as well remembered as the Williams-scored classics.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I regard Jerry Goldsmith's work ethic in the same way I regard Christopher Walken's, or Morgan Freeman's.

The'd rather work then sit around waiting for "the perfect script" or that "dream role".

So occasionally you'll see their names attached to some pretty second rate stuff, but for some reason it does not affect the respect and admiration that these people enjoy from their peers, or the average movie goer.

[A24 4,322]

John Williams sits around waiting until George or Steven calls him up. What's so great about that?! I mean, is that being critical? I'm sure George and Steven are the only people willing enough to pay his fee.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Rutger Hauer is another one. He can be in Turbulence 3: Heavy Metal, Deathline or Warrior Angels, and dozen's of other Z grade films, but still keep a measure of admiration and respect in the industry.

Maybe it's Blade Runner...hmm....

[A24 4,322]

I'm not sure if he gets respect from the industry but to many movie fans he will always be Roy Batty. Of course, I will always remember him as Floris :cool:.

[Quintus 5,399]

And then there are those who will remember him as:

[Jeshopk 8]

Goldsmith didn't have a director of power to allow him the freedom and job stability to continue writing experimentally. In his own words, he started writing safer to keep his job.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In his own words, he started writing safer to keep his job.

Were did he say this?

[Quintus 5,399]

He was in Burger King at the time.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoneyDearBoy

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You take what you can.

[Quintus 5,399]

Clash of the Titans was ace! When I was a kid.

[Jeshopk 8]

In his own words, he started writing safer to keep his job.

Were did he say this?

a 1997 interview

http://www.jazzprofessional.com/interviews/Jerry%20Goldsmith.htm

“When you are in you late 20s or early 30s you have nowhere to go. You either go up or down. Later you get conservative—to protect what you have. The last way out score I did was Alien. Most of the films I do now are very mainstream, very conservative. But I still try to experiment.”

[Melange 446]

Basic Instinct was good.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

L.A. Confidential was great!

[Ollie 1,059]

Depending on who you talk to, they will tell you Goldsmith was a workaholic and scoring "lesser" pictures gave him the chance to tinker. They will also tell you that he was somewhat miffed after his score to Total Recall was ignored come award time, so he started streamlining his music. But I believe Goldsmith also commented that it was neccessary due to the way films are made these days.

Goldsmith had his share of hits, both with the critics & audiences. They weren't huge hits like Star Wars but they were successful.

Just imagine if Spielberg had chosen Goldsmith as his composer instead of Williams.

[Quintus 5,399]

I think we've all imagined that scenario, at one time or another. In an alternate universe, I'd have loved it to happen.

[Ollie 1,059]

I think we've all imagined that scenario, at one time or another. In an alternate universe, I'd have loved it to happen.

Well if the rumors were true, it came down to either Williams or Goldsmith.

[Datameister 2,034]

Whew...close call, then!

[John Crichton 4]

I still wonder about the world where Goldsmith got Superman and Williams got Star Trek: TMP.

[Datameister 2,034]

Oh, it'd be a fascinating experiment, for sure. I'm glad Spielberg picked Williams, but it'd be awesome if we could have it both ways.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

But I believe Goldsmith also commented that it was neccessary due to the way films are made these days.

He kept mentioning the helicopters during his concerts.

[nadeama 8]

I had a conversation several years ago (I think it was 1997) with Buddy Baker, who was a friend of Goldsmith. He told me at the time that even though he had been in the business for over 30 years, and with everything he had done and all the success he'd had, Goldsmith still had a sort of insecurity that made him feel that the picture he was scoring might be his last, that nobody would be interested in hiring him anymore. I don't think it was a conscious thing as much as just a feeling of insecurity, on a subconscious level I guess. Anyway, Baker thought that's why he sometimes scored shitty pictures (he didn't use those words, but said something like "he sometimes takes on projects he shouldn't"). It's at least clear that even people relatively close to him realized he wasn't always working on the greatest masterpieces.

Of course, that was only Buddy Baker's opinion, but maybe it can help answer your question, at least in part.

[Datameister 2,034]

You had a conversation with Buddy Baker?! What was the context of this?

[publicist 4,643]

Goldsmith talked fairly often about insecurities in interviews, albeit only in general terms.

[Morn 8]

Because he lacked the attitude of these two composers:

"If somebody told me what to write I'd say get somebody else, I'm a composer it's my profession I don't need some half wit director telling me what to write" - Bernard Herrmann

"I don't like film composers who go well this would be a great idea but the audience is too stupid so i'll debase the music to their level, and if the director complains a composer with standards should walk away from it and i don't like composers who will settle for what is below their standard to make a buck" - Bernard Herrmann

"The United States and Turkey are the only two countries that don't have some kind of subsidy for the Arts. The whole culture in society has made certain films more acceptable. I turned down so many films in the '60s and '70s." Alex North

"Being an old radical, I like films like Spartacus. I could relate to the hero." Alex North

[Quintus 5,399]

Because he lacked the attitude of these two composers:

"If somebody told me what to write I'd say get somebody else, I'm a composer it's my profession I don't need some half wit director telling me what to write" - Bernard Herrmann

What a legend!

[Jay 37,249]

I still wonder about the world where Goldsmith got Superman and Williams got Star Trek: TMP.

Oh, it'd be a fascinating experiment, for sure. I'm glad Spielberg picked Williams, but it'd be awesome if we could have it both ways.

Spielberg had nothing to do with Superman

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I believe he was indirectly referring to Mark's post about Spielberg picking JW as his in-house composer.

[Jay 37,249]

No, because he already replied to that post before the post I quoted

[Datameister 2,034]

Haha, yeah, I dunno what I was thinking when I wrote that. Believe me, I know Spielberg wasn't at all associated with the Superman franchise. Maybe I'd been reading one post and accidentally quoted another...? I really have no idea.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

Goldsmith didn't have a director of power to allow him the freedom and job stability to continue writing experimentally. In his own words, he started writing safer to keep his job.

What about Franklin J. Schaffner, and Joe Dante?

Depending on who you talk to, they will tell you Goldsmith was a workaholic and scoring "lesser" pictures gave him the chance to tinker. They will also tell you that he was somewhat miffed after his score to Total Recall was ignored come award time, so he started streamlining his music. But I believe Goldsmith also commented that it was neccessary due to the way films are made these days.

Goldsmith had his share of hits, both with the critics & audiences. They weren't huge hits like Star Wars but they were successful.

Just imagine if Spielberg had chosen Goldsmith as his composer instead of Williams.

He did...twice.

Because he lacked the attitude of these two composers:

"If somebody told me what to write I'd say get somebody else, I'm a composer it's my profession I don't need some half wit director telling me what to write" - Bernard Herrmann

What a legend!

"Half-wit director". Like Alfred Hitchcock, for instance..?

Those composers who don't have the ability to even try to be flexible (step forward, Mr. Barry) do not deserve to work.

[Quintus 5,399]

I have great respect for a professional with a proven track record who sticks to his guns; rather than pander to commercial expectations. A bit of arrogance can pay dividends, both financially and artistically.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I think that's one reason why Goldsmith was so good, he didn't think everything he wrote was infallible, and was completely open to suggestions (some of which certainly bettered his music - TMP for example).

[Quintus 5,399]

Perhaps; but I'd just like to clarify that my response was in regards to Richard's comments and not at all a dig at Goldsmith.

[222max 1]

There are several reasons why Goldsmith often scored bad movies. Some have been mentioned. For most of his career Goldsmith was a workoholic who just couldn't stop writing so he scored constantly... often 7-8 movies a year. All of them couldn't possibly be good ones but many of them were. The fact is that he scored far more good movies than bad ones. It's just that his stature as an artist would seem to demand that he didn't score the trash movies that he did.

Another reason is that Goldsmith probably wasn't good at judging material from a script. In his earlier days he would be sent one and sign on to the picture based on that. By the time he got the actual film it was too late to back out despite how awful the translation from script to film had turned out.

Goldsmith was also very serious about relationships. He often took assignments more because of the poeple involved than the actual quality of the project. If he enjoyed the collaborative energy he had with a certain director that was enough to stimulate him. Thus some of his most stellar work came from some of the most mundane material. If anything, this is a testament to how dedicated and brilliant he was... that he could get the full musical potential out of something which didn't deserve such. All the while, none of this destroyed him or his career. He could do these crap assignments and still be in demand by some of the best people in the business because the quality of his work transcended the quality of the film he was faced with. One only has to look at The Final Conflict or Supergirl or Legend or even Star Trek The Motion Picture to realize this.

In the end we have his tremendous legacy to enjoy regardless of the films themselves. Maybe it was when he knew he had a real stinker on his hands that he pushed himself even harder. If that was the case then I am almost grateful that he did his share of clunkers.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

Not to forget, as I've said before, that a great film doesn't necessarily provide a special opportunity for a great score, while an awful film might.