A question about Star Trek (lore)

[Quintus 5,399]

Am I right in thinking that in the future planet Earth becomes one united 'nation', with the work of the Star Fleet being on behalf of all on Earth? If so, how (if at all) are Earth's internal disputes regarding conflicts, religion etc, explained? Are all our international problems solved, in Roddenberry's 'universe'?

[Brónach 1,301]

They're supposed to be solved in a few years after the First Contact, because humanity has got a new perpective of things. Or something like that.

[Wojo 2,453]

And First Contact itself occurred after the Third World War, which would have been a direct result of the Eugenics Wars that took place in Star Trek's 1990s (Khan's reign on Earth). The details of this WWIII (the factions) are never established, but they say that over 600 million die in the genocide and nuclear disasters that occur. Poverty, hunger, disease, and humanity's prejudices towards each are gradually eradicated in the decades that follow First Contact with the Vulcans.

Until humanity sees itself as part of a larger interstellar community, we will continue to allow petty squabbles like religious differences, greed, and penis envy divide the race.

[Ollie 1,059]

But to answer the question, yeah everyone on Earth gets along.

[Wojo 2,453]

Yea, after all the troublemakers die in WWIII.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

Personally, I prefer the Interstella Alliance.

[Quintus 5,399]

Right okay, so it's a perfectly reasonable yet highly unlikely explaination. We all get along. Yeah right!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I do worry that individualism and free enterprise is phasered out by the 23rd century. Although I wonder if people in the Federation have the right to bear phasers?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

So, tell me, guys, how come there is no money? I am not advocating a capitalist society, but it seems to me that motivation would be pretty thin on the ground if there was no "reward" at the end of a hard day's work. As Lilly says, "Where were your evolved sensibilities then?!".

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I am not advocating a capitalist society

I am.

[Andy 4,090]

They're supposed to be solved in a few years after the First Contact, because humanity has got a new perpective of things. Or something like that.

Kinda like in Independence Day, which should be retconned to be Star Trek canon.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Even in this Utopia I'd continually piss off Datameister, Henry Buck, and Jason Lebland would still have me on ignore.

Life would be wonderful.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

I am not advocating a capitalist society

I am.

Let me re-phrase my last post. If everyone simply took what they wanted just because they thought they deserved it, this would, in all probability, lead to anarchy. A society in which a person is paid a fare wage for their work, seems to be the way of things...for now. If, in the 23rd/24th Centuries, there is no wage for labour, then who decides what is valuable; has integrity; is worth keeping, and who decides what to throw away? Also, what about class structure? IMO, the crew of The Enterprise/DS9/Voyager seem to be "white collar"? Is there any other kind in Roddenberry's universe?

[Wojo 2,453]

They're supposed to be solved in a few years after the First Contact, because humanity has got a new perpective of things. Or something like that.

Kinda like in Independence Day, which should be retconned to be Star Trek canon.

Except in Independence Day, the total number of human casualties surely exceeded 600 million. We'll see what they decide when the sequel (ID5? ID42?) comes out.

It's never stated how the Federation/human society works without money. I'm not convinced that it can function without some kind of credit or barter system.

Kirk has his own flat in San Francisco, and collects antiques. Picard's brother still operates the family vineyard in France. All the characters show level of fond nostalgia for centuries past, which acts as a way to anchor the show in the modern era but also suggests that they had a way of buying these items, if they didn't replicate or inherit them.

Communist societies have never worked in human history because human nature -- greed, jealousy, and ambition -- drives the leaders to pad their pockets and exploit the lower classes, who do live in relative poverty under the guise of a false equality, that they're working for their fellow man, to better themselves.

It's possible that the newfound awareness and second renaissance enjoyed by humanity in Star Trek's future does unite the species, permitting such a Utopia to flourish removed from the greed of our past.

I'm sure that transporters and replicators also help. If you're hungry, you can just walk down to the local replicator and zap up a sandwich. You don't need to dig into your pocket for money, sit on the corner with a coffee can begging for money, or kill the local pizza boy for his wallet. But there would have to be some method of controlling the replicators, to keep people from replicating massive amounts of junkfood and eating themselves into diabetic, obese monsters.

But there are still people with very well-to-do lifestyles that commit crimes, abuse their loved ones, abuse drugs, and all around lead very worthless lives. What could we expect from the lower classes of people in the 23rd and 24th centuries? The reason we never see very much of the civilian, everyday life in Star Trek is that it nobody knew how to make it work well.

This "unified humanity" was created for two main storytelling reasons. There is something very attractive about an optimistic view of the future. In addition, Star Trek worked as an allegory for modern society, where the aliens and interstellar situations took the place of the bad guy nations and people on contemporary (60s) Earth. That way, they could make the aliens be as bizarre and treacherous as they wanted, without offending the corresponding people in the real world.

Will it ever be like that? No.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

The evidence about money in 23rd Century seems to indicate that they don't have money in a traditional sense, but they do have "Credits", which can be used like money.

It's all very intentionally vague.

[Melange 446]

Are all our international problems solved, in Roddenberry's 'universe'?

[Brónach 1,301]

I've seen a few movies and a few episodes. My impression is that it works like a communist prehistoric society, but in a futurized version. Or something like that.

Some things cost something, some things are free for everyone (so things like SPACESHIPS can be build). State is kind of dissolved... The credits can be an earned amount by working that can be used to buy things that cost something.

[Wojo 2,453]

You could get rid of money if you remove the need for it.

Why do we have money? To buy the things we need. What do we need? Food, water, shelter, and clothing (can be considered shelter). Everything else is a luxury item centered around either helping us to achieve those basic needs, or to improve our quality of life, which gives money to other people so they can buy their basic needs.

Star Trek suggests a world where most of the basic needs are provided for very inexpensively. Fusion power seems to provide electricity, which we need to cook the food, clean the water, and heat the shelter. Fusion converts hydrogen into helium, and since hydrogen is found in water and scattered throughout space for our spaceships and space stations, it is in infinite supply. There goes your fossil fuel infrastructure, nuclear fission becomes obsolete, and wind and water turbines become expensive novelties.

Magical science #2 is the equal exchange of matter back and forth into energy. Replicators. An infinite supply of electricity yields an infinite supply of food and clothing. Yes, people still grow and make their own food, and make their own clothing. These people are appreciated for holding onto the old arts.

And with space travel a possibility, humanity is no longer forced to live in cramped spaces around the globe. They build colonies in space and offworld. It's not infinite, as we know from other races who push back on unbridled expansion (Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians), and these lead to exciting frontier stories.

Now that the bare essentials can be found for so cheap or free, people don't have to fight over basic resources. They can pursue specialized interests without having to worry about how they're going to make ends meet. Society is enlightened and will care for them, provided they do something constructive in return. If there's one type of person that Star Trek doesn't show us, it's the do-nothing deadbeat character. I suppose they became extinct.

Oh, and it appears that Starfleet officers have an unlimited amount of movies and music at their disposal in the ships' databases. So copyright law goes the way of the dodo bird, and artists make music and art for the sake of their fans' enjoyment, not for amassing vast collections of material wealth and then alienating their fans and suing them to ruin for downloading a few songs for free.

[Brónach 1,301]

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

[Quintus 5,399]

It's possible that the newfound awareness and second renaissance enjoyed by humanity in Star Trek's future does unite the species, permitting such a Utopia to flourish removed from the greed of our past.

Nah, wouldn't happen. Good 'ol religion would see to that.

I think a far more interesting and realistic outcome, or "beginning", would've been if Mankind continued (after WWIII) on as it always had done - at odds. First Contact might have begun another international "space race", accept this time it would've been for new alliances with alien beings to be forged - ahead of the competition, the benefits of which should be obvious, back on Earth. Sure, the Vulcans would likely take issue with such human in-fighting, but other than retreat back into the depths of space, they could do bugger all about it. Humanity is too busy hating each other, for any other alternative. Kirk and Picard et al would be merely explorers and ambassadors for their respective earthly factions.

[Wojo 2,453]

Well, Zefram Cochrane was American and launched the Phoenix from the USA. I don't know if the USA, or any world government, survived into 2063 or beyond.

Roddenberry wanted Star Trek to concentrate on the conflicts between the alien races and humanity. He didn't want the show to be about all the different factions left on Earth that were competing for control of the planet or solar system. The best way to do that would be to present Earth united under one banner, that of the Federation. For all we know, the Vulcans and other future Federation planets would not consider entering into an alliance with Earth until humans could demonstrate that we would not let petty squabbles like religion and turf wars drive the planet into protracted civil wars.

Is it "realistic?" Probably not. There would be many people on Earth who would feel that aliens from other planets arriving in fancy ships with new technology would just be another trick by the Americans to convert them to our way of life. They would also feel that showing other peoples from so far away would undermine their religious perceptions of being a chosen people of humans.

What we also have to remember is that WWIII is not the last great war to face humanity. In Star Trek lore, there is a long bloody conflict between Earth and its allies, and the Romulans. That war leads to the formation of the United Federation of Planets and the Romulan Neutral Zone, formed after Starfleet. The Earth of Jonathan Archer's "Enterprise" show seems just as politically stable and harmonious as that of Kirk's "Star Trek" show, but if there's anything that could unite religions and political factions on this planet, it would be the presence of a third party that promises complete and equal destruction, not selective like our current state of religiously-inspired wars are.

[Marian Schedenig 8,177]

So, tell me, guys, how come there is no money? I am not advocating a capitalist society, but it seems to me that motivation would be pretty thin on the ground if there was no "reward" at the end of a hard day's work. As Lilly says, "Where were your evolved sensibilities then?!".

The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity.

[Quintus 5,399]

Roddenberry wanted Star Trek to concentrate on the conflicts between the alien races and humanity. He didn't want the show to be about all the different factions left on Earth that were competing for control of the planet or solar system

Oh I realise that, and I find the motivations to be completely acceptable and good. I'm just offering an alternative idea of what might have been, had there been aspirations of creating a truly deep, almost Tolkienesque history of the Star Trek universe.

The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity.

I think more than a few hundred years of human evolution would be necassary for Humanity to begin to think that way. Try tens of thousands.

[Wojo 2,453]

There was either an ultimatum for those people who didn't want to play along, or they were defeated. Roddenberry's Utopia was, after all, born out of disaster.

[Trent B 337]

By the way as far as money itself goes...ya Earth has what's called "credits" but other species like the Frengi clearly have money what we know is "Gold Press Latinum".

Who knows if this Earth will eventually transform itself into the Utopia that is in the Star Trek Lore...it would be nice if it did but like Quint said I don't see it happening for a couple thousand years.

[Brónach 1,301]

Yeah, but that's because of the political frontiers. Imagine, if your transformed somewhere into this utopia, the place would still have to communicate and trade and everything with the rest of the world, which would lead to its invasion by the greedy neighbours or selfdestruction and stuff.

I can see it happening in "isolated" colonies in space. Not really isolated, but the longer distance would change that. The point for them would be to survive, to make their conditions better and save all the culture and knowledge they have... sounds familiar?

Whsch is one of the many reasons we HAVE to expand the species as much as we can. We have to explore everything that's out there. Because it's there.

I like this aspect of Star Trek.