Indiana Jones - Secondary Action Cues

[Josh500 1,615]

Here's a crazy theory: it seems to me that these 8 pieces have many many more things in common than one would assume at first. People like to claim that JW's writing style has changed a lot over the past 3 decades, but when you listen to these pieces one after the other, they might all have been from the same movie.

So his style, hasn't changed that much over the years, or at least not when it comes to Indiana Jones. JW is still able to write the way he did in the 80s . . . All 8 pieces are fast-paced and action-oriented, masterfully orchestrated, and with the right dose of humor thrown in.

So which one's your favorite, and why? What are your thoughts on these 8 great action cues?

[Datameister 2,041]

Relatively speaking, I'd say there are still considerable stylistic differences between these. But yet again, I can't pick. It's not either of the KOTCS cues, and it's not "Fast Streets of Shanghai", but all the others are really neck-and-neck for me. You forgot "Pffist Fight", though, which I feel is a very strong contender. Really sweet action cue.

EDIT: And I don't think "Flight from Peru" should be on here. It's not really an action cue in the normal sense. (It is, however, utterly brilliant.)

[indy4 155]

I definitely disagree--I think that while there are a good amount of similarities between the cues, they are each pretty distinct. Of these options I'd pick either "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra," "Escape from Venice," or "Ants!" I was tempted to add "Flight from Peru" to the list, but seeing as the best part is only about a minute long I decided against it.

So in the end I voted for "Escape from Venice," because at the moment that what I'd most want to listen to.

I'm also curious as to what qualifies these as "secondary" action cues.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hmmm, "Flight from Peru" seems to me in the same category as "Escape from Venice" and "A Whirl Through Academe."

Except that JW decided to use pizzicato violins in the former.

Relatively speaking, I'd say there are still considerable stylistic differences between these.

You say considerable stylistic differences. Care to elaborate?

I'm also curious as to what qualifies these as "secondary" action cues.

The main action cues in all 4 movies are abundantly clear:

RotLA: Desert Chase

ToD: Short Round Helps

LC: Belly of the Steel Beast/On the Tank

KotCS: The Jungle Chase

For convenience's sake, I consider every other action cue "secondary," and out of these I picked 2 from each movie which I personally like best.

[Datameister 2,041]

Perhaps. I suppose the scenes do have comparable levels of action; Williams just scored them in vastly different ways.

As for the differences...well, it's a lame answer, but they're a little too intangible for me to describe them much. "A Whirl Through Academe" is the most obvious example - that and, say, "The Basket Game" are night and day. Williams just throws in a bunch of his action scoring trademarks - jabbering trumpet lines, shrieks of woodwinds and piano and percussion, certain complex harmonic tendencies, etc. A lot of it is pretty good stuff - and very orchestrationally impressive, naturally - but he's done various permutations of it so many times that I really don't need to hear much more of it. In contrast, "The Basket Game" is a tightly focused action cue based on a few recognizable motifs that are quite unique (aside from some similarities to a melody from "The Asteroid Field"). Much of the cue is built around developing and alternating between those motifs, with some Mickey Mousing and that dazzling horn feature in the middle. Then comes a dramatic shift toward the end, of course, but there's still none of that generic action scoring. It's all either thematic or based on new motifs that fit the emotions of the scene like a glove.

The differences within the original three films are much, much subtler, but they're still there. Raiders' action music is the darkest and most serious by far, even though it's still tremendously exciting and sometimes grin-inducingly weird (e.g. the aforementioned pizzicato passage). TOD gets frantically energetic a lot of the time, and then TLC goes all the way in the opposite direction with a lot more humorous elements and a certain quality that I can't even find a word for. It's hard to describe, but it can get on my nerves a little if I'm in the wrong mood. (That's not the case with "Escape from Venice", though, which is a really great action cue in my book. Listening now. )

EDIT:

The main action cues in all 4 movies are abundantly clear:

...

ToD: Short Round Helps

I don't see anything abundantly clear about that. There's soooo much action music in TOD, and I don't think any single cue stands out as THE one.

[Jonesy 55]

I vote for "Fast Streets Of Shanghai", I like the final part when it sounds the "Raiders March"

[indy4 155]

I vote for "Fast Streets Of Shanghai", I like the final part when it sounds the "Raiders March"

I love that part. I think it's one of the, if not the, best renditions of the Raiders March in the entire series.

[Josh500 1,615]

Perhaps. I suppose the scenes do have comparable levels of action; Williams just scored them in vastly different ways.

As for the differences...well, it's a lame answer, but they're a little too intangible for me to describe them much. "A Whirl Through Academe" is the most obvious example - that and, say, "The Basket Game" are night and day. Williams just throws in a bunch of his action scoring trademarks - jabbering trumpet lines, shrieks of woodwinds and piano and percussion, certain complex harmonic tendencies, etc. A lot of it is pretty good stuff - and very orchestrationally impressive, naturally - but he's done various permutations of it so many times that I really don't need to hear much more of it. In contrast, "The Basket Game" is a tightly focused action cue based on a few recognizable motifs that are quite unique (aside from some similarities to a melody from "The Asteroid Field"). Much of the cue is built around developing and alternating between those motifs, with some Mickey Mousing and that dazzling horn feature in the middle. Then comes a dramatic shift toward the end, of course, but there's still none of that generic action scoring. It's all either thematic or based on new motifs that fit the emotions of the scene like a glove.

The differences within the original three films are much, much subtler, but they're still there. Raiders' action music is the darkest and most serious by far, even though it's still tremendously exciting and sometimes grin-inducingly weird (e.g. the aforementioned pizzicato passage). TOD gets frantically energetic a lot of the time, and then TLC goes all the way in the opposite direction with a lot more humorous elements and a certain quality that I can't even find a word for. It's hard to describe, but it can get on my nerves a little if I'm in the wrong mood. (That's not the case with "Escape from Venice", though, which is a really great action cue in my book. Listening now. )

I didn't say they sound exactly the same. Of course not. But they are written in the same style, in the same spirit, somehow...

You have vastly differing opinions of these pieces, I see. I guess that's where we differ. I personally love all these pieces (almost) equally, and I think the similiarities outnumber the differences. "A Whirl Through Academe" is perfect IMO for that chase sequence through the university campus, just like "Escape from Venice" is perfect for the chase sequence across Venice. JW writes what's appropriate for every scene, and in both instances, he exceled himself.

I vote for "Fast Streets Of Shanghai", I like the final part when it sounds the "Raiders March"

Yess!!! Agreed. Also, I love what JW does musically when the blocks are removed from in front of the tires of the plane: kind of anticipatory, yet exuberant (somewhat delaying) music before the "Raiders March" is heard full force!

[Faleel 5,346]

I'm also curious as to what qualifies these as "secondary" action cues.

The main action cues in all 4 movies are abundantly clear:

RotLA: Desert Chase

ToD: The Bridge Battle/British Relief

LC: Belly of the Steel Beast/On the Tank

KotCS: The Jungle Chase

For convenience's sake, I consider every other action cue "secondary," and out of these I picked 2 from each movie which I personally like best.

corrected (thats what i consider the main action cue tho mine car chase is close)

[Datameister 2,041]

I didn't say they sound exactly the same.

Nor did I say that you said that.

But they are written in the same style, in the same spirit, somehow...You have vastly differing opinions of these pieces, I see. I guess that's where we differ. I personally love all these pieces (almost) equally, and I think the similiarities outnumber the differences. "A Whirl Through Academe" is perfect IMO for that chase sequence through the university campus, just like "Escape from Venice" is perfect for the chase sequence across Venice. JW writes what's appropriate for every scene, and in both instances, he exceled himself.

I don't know whether I think the similarities outnumber the differences...that's pretty tough to quantify. All I know is that within the very specific genre of John Williams action music, I think "A Whirl Through Academe" is all the way at the other end of the spectrum from his older action music. It's based more on compositional tools and building blocks that he's already used many times before, and although I like the cue, it doesn't excite me the way something like "Pffist Fight" or "Mine Car Chase" does, because those cues sound totally fresh and unique, even though they're stylistically consistent with Williams' other work.

I love what JW does musically when the blocks are removed from in front of the tires of the plane: kind of anticipatory, yet exuberant (somewhat delaying) music before the "Raiders March" is heard full force!

Yeah, that whole ending to the cue is fantastic. Not my favorite Raiders March rendition, but it's very, very good, as is the music leading into it.

[Faleel 5,346]

Fast streets of Shanghai baby! to me its alot like Desert Chase withought the "HB"

[gkgyver 1,645]

I vote for "Fast Streets Of Shanghai", I like the final part when it sounds the "Raiders March"

I love that part. I think it's one of the, if not the, best renditions of the Raiders March in the entire series.

I second that.

[indy4 155]

I vote for "Fast Streets Of Shanghai", I like the final part when it sounds the "Raiders March"

I love that part. I think it's one of the, if not the, best renditions of the Raiders March in the entire series.

I second that.

I think the main reason I love the rendition so much is because of the great buildup. Throughout the entire cue, JW taunts us with little snippets of Indy's theme. In the beginning it restrained and incomplete little woodwind licks, but eventually it develops into big brass variations. WE finally think we get it, but the last two notes turn sour as the airplane door reveals it's Lao's plane. Then there's a great buildup for what we all know is coming, ending in a magnificent full on version of the theme. It's especially effective considering a lot of audience members were probably waiting for that familiar touch after the unusual musical opening.

[Jay 37,346]

Well said, Indy4!

[ChuckM 1]

"Scherzo" with "Venice" coming in at a close second.

Here's a crazy theory: it seems to me that these 8 pieces have many many more things in common than one would assume at first. People like to claim that JW's writing style has changed a lot over the past 3 decades, but when you listen to these pieces one after the other, they might all have been from the same movie.

True for the first three films. Not even remotely close for the fourth.

[Datameister 2,041]

Nah. If a never-before-heard cue from one of the first three films were leaked today, I'd be able to tell you with 100% confidence which film it was from - even if it didn't include any telltale themes.

[King Mark 3,631]

How about a poll on the Tertiary Action cues?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

I vote for "Fast Streets Of Shanghai", I like the final part when it sounds the "Raiders March"

"Nice try, Lao Che", but "The Basket Chase" gets my vote everytime, especially with the "nazi" motif at the begining."

[Jay 37,346]

Hmm, I thought the nazi motif was only in Airplane Fight and Desert Chase?

[Quintus 5,399]

I seem to remember this poll being done before.

[Nemesis 245]

I think it was about the least favourite cues...

[Datameister 2,041]

Hmm, I thought the nazi motif was only in Airplane Fight and Desert Chase?

There's no consensus about what exactly at ROTLA Nazi motif would be. I think the closest thing in that score is the slightly Rebel-fanfare-like melody heard mostly in the last half of the score.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's the primary motif of Airplane Fight in the second half. It can also be heard throughout the submarine scene, notably right before the march when Indiana Jones is spotted.

[Datameister 2,041]

That's the one I'm talking about.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

I seem to remember this poll being done before.

...and it will be again; that's the beauty of it!

[Josh500 1,615]

Is "The Jungle Chase" as exciting as "Fast Streets of Shanghai"?

No. But almost.

[indy4 155]

It's better than "Shanghai," although nothing in Jungle Chase is as good as the Raiders March buildup.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

The Basket Chase for me is a great fun piece, that ends with a brilliant and suddenly tragic end.

[Faleel 5,346]

i find that airplane fight is better then the Basket Chase and Shanghai just kills the Jungle Chase