What is your LEAST favorite sequel?

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah, I never got the Bale love, although he was superb in Empire of the Sun.

[Datameister 2,042]

My least favorite sequel is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Never have I been so dissappointed by a film that collapsed on my expectations of it. After the near perfect Raiders, and the superior sequal Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, I had way too high expectations. So my expectations for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull were low, and Spielberg delivered what I expected.

After the unbelievable disappointment that was TOD...after going from near cinematic perfection to a headache-inducing crapfest...I expected little from TLC. I was only slightly pleasantly surprised.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

My least favorite sequel is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Never have I been so dissappointed by a film that collapsed on my expectations of it. After the near perfect Raiders, and the superior sequal Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, I had way too high expectations. So my expectations for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull were low, and Spielberg delivered what I expected.

After the unbelievable disappointment that was TOD...after going from near cinematic perfection to a headache-inducing crapfest...I expected little from TLC. I was only slightly pleasantly surprised.

oh come on and admit it you never saw TOD in it's original release, you're too young. Or am I mistaken about your age?

I'm not trying to trash LC in this case, I'm merely stating it was the one sequel I was really geared up for an it failed to entertain me to the level of Raiders and TOD.

[Jay 37,346]

My least favorite sequel is my second night with your mother!

After the unbelievable disappointment that was TOD...a headache-inducing crapfest

[Wojo 2,453]

After the unbelievable disappointment that was TOD...a headache-inducing crapfest

He's not the only one who feels this way. I know more people who hate TOD than I know who appreciate it. For those lost souls, the dinner sequence and live torture destroy the movie past the point of enjoyment, and they don't even own it.

[Quintus 5,399]

I remember being taken by my mother to see Last Crusade with my younger brother when we were on holiday (vacation) in Wales. We were absolutely spellbound by it.

[Brónach 1,302]

Temple of Doom is a great film! In fact I think is the one with the best plot out of all the Indy films, though my favourite is Raiders. I love all three.

[Jay 37,346]

I love all 3 as well. TOD puts a grin on my face from frame 1 to the the final frame. Love every minute of it.

[Andy 4,121]

Yep, me too. Temple of Doom is absolutely perfect. It sets out on its goal and confidently accomplishes it.

[King Mark 3,631]

Eh,probably not on that list but JP3 is the worst one of these

[Datameister 2,042]

oh come on and admit it you never saw TOD in it's original release, you're too young.

Happily. What's your point, though? I still saw the films in order, with some time between them and limited knowledge about what was coming.

I know more people who hate TOD than I know who appreciate it. For those lost souls, the dinner sequence and live torture destroy the movie past the point of enjoyment, and they don't even own it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't really mind either of those. The things that kill TOD for me are:

* changing Indy's character and making him far less...mythical

* Willie

* dumb humor; a few insanely cheesy moments; generally poor acting

* poor writing

* getting rid of all the globe-trotting and sticking to one location

* Willie

* poor visual effects in some scenes (they're great in others)

* Willie

* underwhelming villain's demise (eaten by crocs or blown up by God...hmmmm...)

* Willie

* underwhelming fake corpses

* Willie

* Willie

I know Spielberg and friends were intentionally trying to do something different, and I'm glad they didn't just do a Raiders rehash. But for me, the only department in which TOD even enters the same ballpark as Raiders is the score. Every frame of Raiders just oozes with awesomeness. It's one of those films that is just utterly permeated with coolness.

Did I mention that Willie gets on my nerves a little?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Leave it alone, you bastard.

[Datameister 2,042]

I've said my thing, I'll shut up now.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

By the way, Mola Ram's demise is AWESOME. It's the only time Indy fights the villain one-on-one (and, really, the only time that would ever work) and the manner in which he dispatches him by saying that curse or whatever and the stones burning up is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in a movie.

[Datameister 2,042]

That part was cool, I'll give you that. Still...turning into a fake-looking dummy being eaten by crocs? Not really my cup of tea. Besides, Indy fought plenty of bad guys in ROTLA, and those fights were a lot more interesting. He just never fought Belloq because, as you said, it wouldn't have worked.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

That part was cool, I'll give you that. Still...turning into a fake-looking dummy being eaten by crocs? Not really my cup of tea. Besides, Indy fought plenty of bad guys in ROTLA, and those fights were a lot more interesting. He just never fought Belloq because, as you said, it wouldn't have worked.

Yet I'm sure you have no problem with some fake wax-heads melting and exploding at the end of Raiders...

[Datameister 2,042]

The melting Toht effect is pretty chilling and convincing, as evidenced by all the nightmares it's induced in younger viewers over the last few decades. Deitrich's instant mummification is extremely convincing - one of the most underrated visual effects of all time, and deliciously grotesque to watch. Belloq exploding...meh, not the most convincing, but still a lot more awesome in concept than falling and getting death-rolled by a few decidedly unremarkable crocodiles. Besides, the music is better.

[indy4 155]

I agree that "bad guy dies" effects in Raiders are far superior than those in ToD. (That doesn't mean I don't love ToD with a fiery passion.)

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

The melting Toht effect is pretty chilling and convincing, as evidenced by all the nightmares it's induced in younger viewers over the last few decades. Deitrich's instant mummification is extremely convincing - one of the most underrated visual effects of all time, and deliciously grotesque to watch. Belloq exploding...meh, not the most convincing, but still a lot more awesome in concept than falling and getting death-rolled by a few decidedly unremarkable crocodiles. Besides, the music is better.

Would Belloq's exploding head have been any better, if the censor had not insisted that the shot be "cleaned up", forcing Spielberg to superimpose flames over it?

[Quintus 5,399]

Am I the only one who enjoys Willie? I thought she was a good leading lady with her own identify, plus she had an awesome Rack'o'Doom which is always a bonus. Capshaw was quite a sexy woman, in fact I'd still give her one now.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

At least she's not as breakable as Alison Doody, if ya know what I mean.

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed. But still got to give it to Doody for being the only truly fit leading lady in the whole trilogy.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

They're all quite bangable.

I'd probably rank them 1. Elsa 2. Willie 3. Marion (ROTLA) 4. Irina

And I've always liked Willie. The common, tired complaint is that she screams too much. Maybe I've just become desensitized to that, I consider it a staple of TOD. The movie wouldn't be right without it.

[Andy 4,121]

Am I the only one who enjoys Willie?

Nope.

[Datameister 2,042]

Would Belloq's exploding head have been any better, if the censor had not insisted that the shot be "cleaned up", forcing Spielberg to superimpose flames over it?

Possibly...but I think the problem is with the exploding head itself. Not that big a deal, though. Toht is the one everyone remembers.

And I don't care what y'all say...Willie is the worst thing to ever happen to an Indy film...and I'm including KOTCS in that statement!

[Quintus 5,399]

I disagree. I think David Koepp and a post eightees George Lucas are the worse things to happen to the series.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

How does David Koepp get work?

[Quintus 5,399]

Coz he wrote a decent gangster movie script this one time.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I wouldn't put Revenge of the Sith on that list. It was by far the least disappointing of the prequels. In many ways it was the only one that delivered. Now Phantom Menace, THAT was a horrible disappointment. Of course strictly speaking it's not a sequel so...

Matrix 3: Horrible horrible horrible. So old, slow-moving, and flabby. It's positively middle-aged compared to the adrenaline-filled cool of the original Matrix.

Mission Impossible 2: Dreadful film. The first MI was so clever and sexy. Just a wonderful and surprisingly intelligent spy-thriller. MI2 was a huge disappointement to me. Cartoonish plot line, completely implausible, and completely devoid of any believability. Silly.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

Terminator Salvation isn't that bad, though it could have been better. To be honest I enjoyed watching the film for Sam Worthington's character story more than I did for Christian Bale as John Connor. I'm also in the group that enjoyed Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines.

For Wolverine, it was a pretty good back story leading up to the events of the first X-Men film. Liev Schreiber as Victor Creed was definitely a good choice for that character, much better than Tyler Mane from the first film.

Also BTTF Part II.

One of the best sequels ever made.

I agree!

Anyone who didn't like BTTF Part 2...well no hope for ya.

BTTF pt II will always be my favourite BTTF film, not least for the memory of where I saw it first (on its opening night, in a theatre in Morgantown, W.V.). Great stuff. Best line: "Yes!...No! Ooh La La?...Ooh La La?!" Brilliant, but not quite good as BTTF III's "Have you got a back door?" "Yeah, it's out the back". Genius!!!!

[Datameister 2,042]

All three BTTF films are great. The first is the best if you want really slick storytelling, with not a moment wasted. The second is all over the place, but luckily, I like all the places it visits. The third is probably my least favorite - it sometimes gets a little too earnest, with a couple of parts even starting to develop hints of sequelitis. But it's still great fun, and the setting is a nice change of pace.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

BTTF 2 might be the only movie where "all over the place" is in fact what makes it great.

Coz he wrote a decent gangster movie script this one time.

A great one, actually, one of the best.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Koepp has written a few great scripts. My favorite being Panic Room.

[Diego 21]

I only cared and had expectations for SW and Indy. Did anyone really expect Transformers 2 to be a great movie?? Did anyone care??

Between SW and Indy, I find KOTCS to be mostly boring with a some very ridiculous moments. ROTS on the other hand is pretty much shit from beginning to end, although the real atrocity is AOTC, the point where Star Wars was ruined beyond repair, but that's not on the list.

[John Crichton 4]

BTTF 2 might be the only movie where "all over the place" is in fact what makes it great.

I agree, I've always enjoyed it. Besides, who doesn't love a good temporal paradox?

[Trent B 337]

For Revenge Of The Sith, I love that one more than Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull and Transformers 2 combined.

[Faleel 5,346]

The melting Toht effect is pretty chilling and convincing........Besides, the music is better.

you take that back! the music of TOD is much better

[Datameister 2,042]

Mmmmm...nope. TOD as a whole is a fantastic score, but just a notch below Raiders - and the difference is greater than that for these particular passages. Straightforward minor-key brass fanfare or full-orchestral orgy of fortissimo spookiness? I know my choice!

[Faleel 5,346]

i think TOD is better arranged, with Raiders its the exiting beginning, then it gets boring in the middle then kicks back up, then after desert chase i dont want to listen anymore, but with TOD its more balanced, more like a star wars movie where its exciting, not so exiting, then exciting again, and i can listen to the whole score, plus its got more themes HOWEVER the thing that raiders has over TOD is the end credits, in Raiders there is this quiet version of the raiders march that plays at the very end of the credits that never shows up in the later scores.

[Williamsfan301 11]

I'm trying to figure out how we could go for three pages talking about crappy movie sequels and not mention Star Trek V.

[Trent B 337]

I'm trying to figure out how we could go for three pages talking about crappy movie sequels and not mention Star Trek V.

To be fair, for the most part Star Trek V was entertaining and enjoyable...at least until they reached the Great Barrier. After that point is when the movie fell apart and killed the rest of it.

[Wojo 2,453]

Star Trek V fell into the trap of condensing Star Trek alien races into a single unified religion. Vulcan mythology has a Sha Ka Ree, while Klingon mythology has their own version, leaving Earth religions with Eden. Except for the fact that Earth has more religions than you can shake a stick at, all with differing ideas of eternal paradise. It's demonstrated that Roddenberry's future is very secular, so as to not offend any specific Earth religions, so when a Star Trek episode or movie comes along and tries to use a Judeo-Christian concept for its plot device, it doesn't work that well. It comes across as forced and preachy. The flip side of the coin is that Bajoran culture on DS9 and Enterprise's attempt to fragment Vulcan society into different religions are not always very interesting or compelling, but they come a generation later.

"Plato's Stepchildren" portrays the Greek gods as powerful aliens who visited Earth to help humanity, and now want humans to populate their new planet and worship them, but Star Trek V singles out "God" as another powerful alien who is imprisoned on a barren world, and can only communicate with an empathic Vulcan to promote his release from jail at the center of the galaxy? It doesn't jive.

I can overlook the notion that the Enterprise-A can get to the galactic core in a few hours, while it takes Voyager, a ship from 100 years into the future, seven years to make a comparable trip. If you take the malevolent super-being from TMP, the marooned aspect from TWOK, and the Klingons who show up late in TSFS as the bad guys, you have the jist of Star Trek V.

The best part of the movie post-Great Barrier? Kirk meets "God" and tells him off. Was that Shatner's message? That he could outsmart God when he meets Him? Puh-lease.

[John Crichton 4]

Star Trek V fell into the trap of condensing Star Trek alien races into a single unified religion. Vulcan mythology has a Sha Ka Ree, while Klingon mythology has their own version, leaving Earth religions with Eden.

I don't think I'd take that as a single religion, they were just seeing Sybok's quest as one for their own version of paradise or, as Sybok, says, "the place from where creation sprang". Kind of like how DS9 (and afterwards Farscape in non-Trek land) got very serious with the idea of every species having their own distinct afterlife, which was very well done I think.

[Williamsfan301 11]

My whole problem with ST:V is that I think it tries too hard to be a humorous in the ST:IV way. Every other line is a pun. Now, it works in the forest scenes at the beginning, but once you get into the meat of the story, all those attempts to replicate the humor of ST:IV kill the seriousness of the drama. I just don't take the movie seriously. That, and the FX suck.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Which, from what I understand, was a Paramount mandate (the humour, not the FX sucking). I think they saw IV's takings and thought 'all of these should be comedies.'

[Williamsfan301 11]

You're right, Charlie. It was Paramount's idea, but I still think they took it overboard.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

You're right, Charlie. It was Paramount's idea, but I still think they took it overboard.

Absolutely. It's hard to do epic when there's constant wisecracking.

[Ollie 1,059]

I blame the SFX partially on Shatner, who felt Bran Ferren could apparently do a better job than the leftovers at ILM. At least that's what he said in one of his books.

Of course blame also goes to Paramount who apparently didn't have enough in the budget to pay ILM.

I put a link in the youtube thread to someone who had added his own CGI effects that blew away the images in the actual film. Too bad Paramount couldn't do or wouldn't do that for the DVD.

[Jay 37,346]

I thought the problem wasn't that they couldn't afford ILM, it was that ILM was busy working Indiana Jones 3, Ghostbusters 2, and The Abyss?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I thought the problem wasn't that they couldn't afford ILM, it was that ILM was busy working Indiana Jones 3, Ghostbusters 2, and The Abyss?

There are different sides to the story. One of them is that they were all busy, the other is that the budget didn't allow for them. Judging from what I've heard about the production, the latter is probably the truth.

Poor Shatner.