Hans Zimmer's influence on himself

[Tallguy 3,386]

40 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

And for me (and like-minded) Gladiator didn't stand out.

 

Which is fine. But it was popular enough to get a second CD.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Gladiator was huge in its day, and its most popular legacy - Lisa Gerard's wailing vocals - have stayed with us ever since as a (frankly rather trite) ubiquitous film scoring convention.

 

Oh, and duduks! Goodness, so. many. Duduks!

[GerateWohl 4,365]

2 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Which is fine. But it was popular enough to get a second CD.

Yes. And "Achy Breaky Heart" was on top of the charts. It were crazy times in the 90s.

[mstrox 6,651]

Yes, it wasn’t just us freaks - the Gladiator score album crossed over to Normies.

[GerateWohl 4,365]

7 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Yes, it wasn’t just us freaks - the Gladiator score album crossed over to Normies.

Since when is that a proof for quality?

[Badzeee 110]

This thread - begun as it was, back in 2010 - makes for very interesting reading regarding the perceptions of Hans Zimmer’s place in film culture. Personally, I always quite liked Gladiator as a score and as a listening experience (and that was as much to do with Lisa Gerrard’s contributions, being a bit of a Dead Can Dance fan). Compared to its contemporaries, no way was it a standout, but it was certainly enjoyable enough.

 

Prior to that, the only soundtrack of Zimmer’s that had entered my consciousness was The Thin Red Line, which I felt owed more to the influence of Brian Eno than any previous film score I’d ever heard. (Anything scored by Tangerine Dream or Vangelis notwithstanding.) I began to notice Zimmer’s name more and more, and I recall feeling that film music composition and sound design were beginning to merge. For what his approach was, during the early 2000s, Zimmer did that textural rythmic thing rather well (whether he stole from himself or not); it’s just that now it, as a creative approach to musical storytelling in film, is almost ubiquitous.  

 

That said, I have to say, I absolutely love Interstellar, and I still like The Thin Red Line and the first two Batman ones. I’ve listened to a lot of his other work too, but a lot of it is as pleasantly gossamer as a summer breeze, while probably less memorable.

[Tallguy 3,386]

38 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Since when is that a proof for quality?

 

You didn't say quality. You said "stand out". And Gladiator was notable even to people who didn't follow scores. Right or wrong, it's a fact.

[Sweeping Strings 2,358]

Thread title makes me think of the Twelfth Doctor's example of a 'bootstrap paradox' -
 

'So there's this man, he has a time machine. Up and down history he goes, zip, zip, zip, zip, zip, getting into scrapes. Another thing he has is a a passion for the works of Ludwig van Beethoven. And one day he thinks, 'What's the point of having a time machine if you don't get to meet your heroes?' So off he goes to 18th century Germany, but he can't find Beethoven anywhere. No one's heard of him. Not even his family have any idea who the time traveller is talking about. Beethoven literally... doesn't exist. This didn't happen by the way. I've met Beethoven. Nice chap, very intense - 
 

[holds up a bust of Beethoven and strikes a similar expression]
 

- loved an arm wrestle. No, this is called the 'bootstrap paradox'. Google it. The time traveller panics. He can't bear the thought of a world without the music of Beethoven. Luckily he brought all of his Beethoven sheet music for Ludwig to sign. So he copies out all the concertos and the symphonies, and he gets them published. He becomes Beethoven. And history continues with barely a feather ruffled. But my question is this - who put those notes and phrases together? Who really composed Beethoven's 5th?

[plays the first notes of Beethoven's 5th on his electric guitar]'.  

[Thor 7,503]

Isn't that the plot of ANONYMOUS?

[GerateWohl 4,365]

1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said:

But my question is this - who put those notes and phrases together? Who really composed Beethoven's 5th?

The same guy, who build the first Terminator. 

[Richard Penna 3,687]

3 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Since when is that a proof for quality?

 

It's proof of the reception of the score amongst normies and how effective it must have been in the film for people to seek it out.

 

All that's happened is that it didn't match your tastes for how to score a film like that. There are certainly some things I'd change about the score to perhaps lighten the RCP aspects a little bit, but I still love how it works in the film and on album.

[bored 309]

The first 3 Pirates of the Caribbean scores are personal classics to me. Gladiator's fine, but I'll take the fun and bombast of Pirates any day over wailing any day. Obviously yes, it's derivative of many Zimmer scores like Gladiator, but the score's energy is infectious to me every time I watch the film, especially in the climaxes of each of the 3 films. 

 

Would I have wanted Silvestri to do the films? Could have been interesting, but at this point, I'd never want to replace those scores now. They were absolutely childhood classics! 

 

(Also at one point in the video that sparked this discussion the guy compares the 2000s Zimmer scores with memorable themes to John Williams which was hilarious to me.)

[Tallguy 3,386]

The Kraken and Davy Jones' themes are two pieces that I tend to forget how much I loved. Might be time to revisit them.

[Edmilson 7,439]

26 minutes ago, bored said:

The first 3 Pirates of the Caribbean scores are personal classics to me. Gladiator's fine, but I'll take the fun and bombast of Pirates any day over wailing any day. Obviously yes, it's derivative of many Zimmer scores like Gladiator, but the score's energy is infectious to me every time I watch the film, especially in the climaxes of each of the 3 films. 

 

Zimmer's epic phase (from 1998 to 2007) is my favorite from him, but I still take King Arthur, The Last Samurai, The Thin Red Line and At World's End over Gladiator though. Maybe even Pearl Harbor.

 

On the other hand, I prefer Gladiator over things like Batman Begins and The Da Vinci Code (this one is a little overrated, the complete score is just so tiresome and meandering). 

[bored 309]

Zimmer's complete scores have that issue a lot at points. I cannot get through stuff like The Peacemaker and The Rock, as it's just too monotonous. I'm sure some would say that's the case with the Pirates scores too but I feel they have much more noticeable melodies and unique moments. Batman Begins and The Dark Knight at least have James Newton Howard to spice them up and add a little variety. Begins is actually surprisingly melodious when you compare it to the later two scores. 

[Mephariel 451]

I vastly prefer Gladiator over the first 2 pirate scores. But At World's End is a true contender for my favorite Zimmer score. Gladiator is a true creative, visionary score, imo. It defined the Zimmer sound in almost all ways. From masculine melodies to female vocals. My favorite Zimmer era is from 1994 - 2009. I think it begins with The Lion King, and ends with Angels and Demons. I never understand certain people's insistence that the best era is 1988 -1994. CC from Filmtracks insists on this. To me, that is my least favorite era. I also don't understand the love for Crimson Tide. I think something like Wonder Woman 1984 is far superior.  

[badbu 123]

Backdraft is my all time favourite!!!! <3

[GerateWohl 4,365]

I am half way through watching The Creator and must admit, that in movie context the score is quite good.

 

[Trope 527]

I fell in love with The Thin Red Line the first time I heard it, and it instantly became my favourite of his. Followed by The Last Samurai, Gladiator and Rain Man! Prince of Egypt is excellent too, I hope they release a full score for it someday.

[GerateWohl 4,365]

13 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

, but I still love how it works in the film and on album.

Which is perfectly fine. Imagine we had all the same taste. Terrifying.

 

For the normies argument I would like to add, that I think, they sometimes buy scores, like we did in the beginning, because they liked the movie in the first place and take the score as some kind of souvenir, and not because the loved the music in the first place.

[Chen G. 3,949]

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I still take King Arthur, The Last Samurai, The Thin Red Line and At World's End over Gladiator though.

 

But King Arthur and Gladiator have practically the same score?

[Richard Penna 3,687]

48 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Which is perfectly fine. Imagine we had all the same taste. Terrifying.

 

For the normies argument I would like to add, that I think, they sometimes buy scores, like we did in the beginning, because they liked the movie in the first place and take the score as some kind of souvenir, and not because the loved the music in the first place.

 

Yes true, and I've done that with some horror scores where I want to complete a set and maybe don't love the score like the others. But the same would apply to Star Wars - millions of people would have loved the movie and bought the soundtrack based on that. At some point you just accept that tastes differ and a lot of people like Gladiator  

 

26 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

But King Arthur and Gladiator have practically the same score?

 

That sort of assessment is only possible if you haven't listened to either in any great detail. Actually, it's the same ignorance that leads the public to say that SW and JP sound the same.

 

---

 

Only three Zimmer scores are properly interesting to me in full form - Gladiator, Da Vinci Code and Angels & Demons. Other than that, he's a good concept album creator - TTRL is one of the best abstract concept albums I've ever heard and I tend to find that for most of his albums I want to add two or three additional cues on top.

 

In King Arthur's case I love the album to bits but one of the battle cues that's presented truncated I like in its full form ('Rain of Arrows' on the boot).

 

For Pirates 3 I actually found that for the bulk of the score the album is fine - the bit I love is the full Maelstrom sequence so I have a bonus playlist that has 40 minutes which is every single bit of music from the start of the battle to the credits.

 

Gladiator falls into a whole other category - the score means a lot to me personally, I adore the album arrangement but I also love the full score which is double the album's length. This is not a case of restoring a few missing highlights here and there - Zimmer's album truncates an entire, near consecutive 30 minutes from later in the film, and I'd argue would supersede several Williams scores in terms of importance of a full expanded set.

[Edmilson 7,439]

8 hours ago, Mephariel said:

I vastly prefer Gladiator over the first 2 pirate scores.

Yeah, me too. Pirates 1 suffers from "too many cooks in the kitchen" while the second one... is fine, better than the first, but still doesn't reach the heights of At World's End or Gladiator for that matter.

 

8 hours ago, Mephariel said:

My favorite Zimmer era is from 1994 - 2009. I think it begins with The Lion King, and ends with Angels and Demons. I never understand certain people's insistence that the best era is 1988 -1994. CC from Filmtracks insists on this.

Yes!

 

8 hours ago, Mephariel said:

o me, that is my least favorite era. I also don't understand the love for Crimson Tide. I think something like Wonder Woman 1984 is far superior.  

I haven't heard Crimson Tide in years, but I'm pretty sure WW84 is better, lol. From what I recall, The Peacemaker and The Rock are better examples of "Zimmer's 90s macho action music" than CT, even though that one was crucial for defining his sound.

[JTN 2,009]

23 hours ago, mstrox said:

Yes, it wasn’t just us freaks - the Gladiator score album crossed over to Normies.

It’s not too hard for Zimmer to do that, his minimalist electronic scores can easily be consumed by the general disco going public listening to whatever noise they listen to these days calling it “music”. All they need is two notes, some pulsating rhythm, lots of drums and a couple of BWRAAAAAAAM!s. 
 

 

11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I haven't heard Crimson Tide in years, but I'm pretty sure WW84 is better, lol.

It’s not. Crimson Tide is excellent, kind of the proto version of The Rock, I even prefer the former to the latter. WW1984 is great on its own merits.

 

 

8 hours ago, Mephariel said:

I never understand certain people's insistence that the best era is 1988 -1994.

It absolutely is his best period, ending with ‘96.
Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, Black Rain, Backdraft, Green Card, Days of Thunder, Crimson Tide, The Rock, just to name a few.

[mstrox 6,651]

How many times a day do you all think Hans Zimmer influences himself?

[Thor 7,503]

We all have our favourite Zimmer periods, often depending on how old you are. Mine will forever be 1988-2003. Sporadic greatness both before and since, but nothing like the consistency in that period.

[badbu 123]

In the end, it's all down to personal taste.

My first score for example was Backdraft, so that’s my favourite Zimmer Score ever.

But I also like the „new“ scores, like Dune, The Creator, The Unforgivable, James Bond, WW84.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

My Zimmer period would be 1995 (to cater for The Rock) to 2013 (Lone Ranger).

 

Since then it's hit and miss. I like Dune but WW84 didn't strike a chord. Bond was passable but less engaging to me than Newman's. May give The Creator another go.

[JTN 2,009]

So funny, because the only Zimmer score I really liked since his and JNH's Dark Knight Trilogy, was WW1984. 

[Mephariel 451]

5 hours ago, JTW said:

It’s not too hard for Zimmer to do that, his minimalist electronic scores can easily be consumed by the general disco going public listening to whatever noise they listen to these days calling it “music”. All they need is two notes, some pulsating rhythm, lots of drums and a couple of BWRAAAAAAAM!s. 
 

 

It’s not. Crimson Tide is excellent, kind of the proto version of The Rock, I even prefer the former to the latter. WW1984 is great on its own merits.

 

 

It absolutely is his best period, ending with ‘96.
Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, Black Rain, Backdraft, Green Card, Days of Thunder, Crimson Tide, The Rock, just to name a few.

 

I prefer his epic orchestral era. None of those scores besides The Rock is that. I like Backdraft, but only because of "Show Me Your Firetruck." So I don't agree that this is his best period. The fact that Zimmer sold out arenas in The World of of Hans Zimmer concerts featuring none of the scores you listed tells me that a majority of his fans would disagree with that as well.

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

My Zimmer period would be 1995 (to cater for The Rock) to 2013 (Lone Ranger).

 

Since then it's hit and miss. I like Dune but WW84 didn't strike a chord. Bond was passable but less engaging to me than Newman's. May give The Creator another go.

 

If I stretch my timeline to 2013, I am definitely stretching it to 2014. Because Interstellar is my all time favorite score.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

Good point yes, Interstellar is definitely on the list of strong Zimmer scores.