Gerhardt Star Wars/Close Encounters lovefest

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He'll occasionally come up in threads, but it seems like it's been a while since a dedicated discussion? Too long.

All three albums--Close Encounters and Star Wars, Empire and Jedi--are absolute gems. I know that Gerhardt's recordings popped a lot of film music cherries. I've constantly seen his recording of the Imperial March brought up in those "top and best" discussions. I've felt that Gerhardt remained faithful to Williams' original music and his general "sound", but he also does his own thing and draws out some cues here, extends some other parts there, shortens or removes passages in instances. Whereas Williams was scoring films and arranging/composing his music to sync up with what was going on in the film, Gerhardt was able to take what William had composed and just let loose with the orchestra.

The extended part of Luke's First Crash where he goes up the harpoon under the walker is amazing. I'm not sure what the story there is. I'm unsure whether that repeated part would have fit in the film or if Gerhardt just liked it a lot and decided to repeat it? It's saying a lot considering the LSO film recordings of Empire are amazing that Gerhardt's recordings are still worthy and occasionally give the LSO a run for their money.

His version of Han Solo and the Princess concert/symphonic suite arrangement (which Williams has apparently never recorded) is among my top SW tracks. The sound quality is tops, Into the Trap is a remarkable thing, there's that unique orchestral original finale from Jedi and of course the finale from Close Encounters. I mean, there have been some okay and even some very good re-recordings of Williams' music. But none of them have really nailed his sound like Gerhardt. He had something. Not just the National Philharmonic, which certainly deserve props. It's plain to hear why Williams endorsed these albums.

[Jay 37,326]

Yea the Han Solo And The Princess recording on that TESB CD is sublime.

I still don't have the CE3K/SW one, and the Jedi one's OK. But I love the TESB disc.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Not a huge fan of ESB. Some bits are nice (love theme), but I just don't think he does the score justice, and some of it is a mess (The Asteroid Field). But the others, especially SW/CE3K, are dynamite.

His version of The Last Battle is like the greatest thing ever,

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

They are fantastic, and I love the TESB album.

[Marian Schedenig 8,180]

Star Wars is the best recording ever of this music. It's never felt as alive and sweeping - Gerhardt not only did not have to conform to a fixed film tempo, he also knew how to treat this music without one. CE3K is on the same level. ROTJ is really good. And I stick to what I've said before: ESB is a mess. Poor performances, poor recording (it sounds like they hid all the strings behind the brass) and even Gerhardt's direction is all over the place.

[Datameister 2,037]

I don't have these, I'm afraid. Just the original recordings. I hear good things, though...

[Jay 37,326]

All 3 are on amazon used for $2-$4

TESB is available new for $3

http://www.amazon.co...78625271&sr=8-1

[Datameister 2,037]

Hmmm...tempting, but I think I'm gonna hold off for now. The original recordings are enough for me, and I'm low on space anyway.

[Dole 17]

I love his ESB. It was my introduction to the score on CD. As mentioned above, "Han Solo and the Princess" is beautiful, and I much prefer what I think is a smoother transition from Yoda's theme to the Imperial March during the End Title.

ROTJ is a little strange. I'm not sure why he decided to include both The Ewok Battle and its concert version The Forest Battle. I think the End Title though is superior to the OST version, and the orchestral version of the Yub-Nub Song is nice.

Don't have SW/CE. I didn't realize it was so cheap on Amazon. Have to pick it up.

[Quintus 5,399]

They are excellent renditions, but these days they suffer from the same played-out fatigue associated with the scores in general. At least as far as my ears are concerned, anyway.

[publicist 4,643]

They are excellent renditions, but these days they suffer from the same played-out fatigue associated with the scores in general. At least as far as my ears are concerned, anyway.

I concur. I sadly cannot listen to a lot of STAR WARS music without feeling a tad goofy. There are cues which are indestructable like THRONE ROOM or the ESB finale or the Emperor music from JEDI, but whenever yoda, ewok/forest battle or jabba music comes into play, i do not gain much pleasure from it.

As for Gerhardt's ESB - it is plagued by early 80's shrill 'digital' sound also known from some of the Boston Pops recordings (By Request), where the bass seems to be surgically removed. I wonder if there's a better LP master? The later JEDI recording sounds booming and bombastic, despite being recorded later.

[Ollie 1,059]

I suppose if you are a collector of all Star Wars material then these discs are of some value.

Once the Anthology and RCA discs were released these became useless to me and I sold them off. Some nice efforts by Gerhardt but the pale in comparison to Williams' original recordings.

[A24 4,328]

The performance is a bit more messy on them Gerhardts.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I suppose if you are a collector of all Star Wars material then these discs are of some value.

Once the Anthology and RCA discs were released these became useless to me and I sold them off. Some nice efforts by Gerhardt but the pale in comparison to Williams' original recordings.

So you will never hear 'Han Solo and the Princess' Concert version ever again?

That's having guts

[Ollie 1,059]

I was never that impressed with the concert version as everyone seems to be.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

still...

[Quintus 5,399]

The performance is a bit more messy on them Gerhardts.

Not necessarily a bad thing, wouldn't you agree? There's a time and a place for boisterous orchestral performances like these.

[A24 4,328]

Indeed, for it makes John williams more ... human.

[Datameister 2,037]

Nobody's perfect, Saavik.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

For the SW Trilogy, you need:

Anthology

Special Editions

Gerhardt trilogy

Varujan Kojian

Boston Pops, collected on Music from the Star Wars Saga

Skywalker Symphony somewhat more optional, but I consider it necessary for some pretty cool renditions of Imperial March and Jabba's theme. But overall it isn't as strong as Gerhardt or his earlier Boston Pops recordings.

[Andy 4,092]

Ordered the SW/CE3K disc. Looking forward to it.

[STORM 1]

I`VE heard all of them and i`m very impressed,i think jedi is the best in performance,but what i liked most about them at the time they had extra music that had`nt been released before very nice.But it is good to hear other interpertions of those superb scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

ROTJ is a little strange. I'm not sure why he decided to include both The Ewok Battle and its concert version The Forest Battle. I think the End Title though is superior to the OST version, and the orchestral version of the Yub-Nub Song is nice.

I agree, the performance and recording on ROTJ is top noitch, but the selections could have been more varied.

Ofcourse it does not help that JW wrote half a dozen concert versions for ROTJ.

[Diego 21]

Jedi's biggest flaw is the absence of the Emperor's theme which is a mayor theme of the score. Guess they couldn't afford a choir, but then again, maybe that's why we got the cool orchestral finale.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I figure Gerhardt liked the forest battle piece. That's why the film version and concert version were included. I agree that the Emperor's theme should have been featured, like Emperor's Death. But I've always considered that something of a failure on Williams' part. The Emperor's theme was begging for a concert arrangement, not the Ewok battle.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

An ochestral version of the Emperor's Death (hypotetical concert version) would have been great.

I agree, the performance and recording on ROTJ is top noitch, but the selections could have been more varied.

Ofcourse it does not help that JW wrote half a dozen concert versions for ROTJ.

Huh? Its the one with less concert versions...

Jabba's theme

Luke and Leia

Parade of the Ewoks

The Forest Battle

I dont know if 'Return of the Jedi' is a concert version propper.

Star Wars has 6 and ESB has 5.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Most of them were written after the fact. For ROTJ already wrote all the concert versions when he did the score.

Also, apart from Parade of the ewoks, I never really liked the ROTJ concert tracks.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I dont understand what you mean...

The Gerhards CDs were recored the same year of release of the films. He expanded on the concert suites Williams had already written.

The impression i have for Star wars is thet that suite has been there from the very beggining, and ESB liner notes seem to imply that too.

Anyway, ROJ does not have half a dozen concert versions...

[Dole 17]

Isn't the Ewok Celebration/Finale also a concert version?

[Jay 37,326]

By my count each film has 4 concert arrangements.

Star Wars has Princess Leia's Theme recorded during the film sessions for the OST, and Here They Come, The Little People, and Throne Room and Finale available later.

Empire Strikes Back has Imperial March and Yoda's Theme recorded during the film sessions for the OST, and The Asteroid Field and Han Solo and the Princess available later.

Return of the Jedi has Parade Of The Ewoks, Luke and Leia, Jabba The Hutt, and The Forest Battle, all recorded with the LSO for the OST (though they only ended up putting part of Jabba The Hutt on the OST and now the original recording is supposedly lost forever.)

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

By my count each film has 4 concert arrangements.

Star Wars has Princess Leia's Theme recorded during the film sessions for the OST, and Here They Come, The Little People, and Throne Room and Finale available later.

Empire Strikes Back has Imperial March and Yoda's Theme recorded during the film sessions for the OST, and The Asteroid Field and Han Solo and the Princess available later.

Return of the Jedi has Parade Of The Ewoks, Luke and Leia, Jabba The Hutt, and The Forest Battle, all recorded with the LSO for the OST (though they only ended up putting part of Jabba The Hutt on the OST and now the original recording is supposedly lost forever.)

Star Wars main title (the one that has the end credots attached after blocked runner) is part of the original SW suite.

John Williams says in the Gerhardt ESB liner notes that 'finale' is part of the suite he composed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I dont understand what you mean...

The Gerhards CDs were recored the same year of release of the films. He expanded on the concert suites Williams had already written.

The impression i have for Star wars is thet that suite has been there from the very beggining, and ESB liner notes seem to imply that too.

Anyway, ROJ does not have half a dozen concert versions...

Well I should have been more clear and used the term "album versions". Music not used in the film, or a different recording from the version used in the film, created specifically for use on the OST release.

SW has 2, the Star Wars Main Theme (a combo of the main and end credits) and the Princess Leia's Theme.

TESB has 2 Yoda's Theme and The Imperial March

ROTJ has Parade Of The Ewoks, Lapti Nek, Luke and Leia, The Forest Battle, possibly Jabba The Hutt, and certainly Ewok Celebration.

The OST of ROTJ is half filled with music not really used in the film.

[Jay 37,326]

Stefan is right, the versions of Lapti Nek and Ewok Celebration on the OST were versions specifically created for the OST, done in parallel with the film versions

So the ROTJ OST was basically 6 film cues (Main Title, Into The Trap, Rebel Briefing, The Emperor, Return Of The Jedi, End Credits), 5 concert arrangements (Luke and Leia, Parada Of The Ewoks, Lapti Nek, The Forest Battle, Ewok Celebration), and one track that had half a film cue and half a concert arrangement (Han Solo Returns / Jabba The Hutt)

[Naïve Old Fart 9,508]

It's been a long time since I've heard these, but doesn't ESB have a little quote of the carbon-freeze chamber music, before it segues into DV's theme?

[Jay 37,326]

Yes the Gerhardt TESB CDs has all kinds of little flourishes and other things in every track not on the OSTs which makes it a fabulous and interesting listen.

[Marian Schedenig 8,180]

The SW suite originally consisted of 5 parts, which I think is what Mehta recorded (was he the first to record the suite?). Here They Come was added specifically at the request of Charles Gerhardt when he did his recording.

[Jay 37,326]

Source?

[Marian Schedenig 8,180]

Probably the Gerhardt ESB liner notes? I seem to recall Williams explaining this in his own (written) words.

Update: It's not in the ESB liners. I'm at a loss where I could've read it. Perhaps the original LP or CD release of Gerhardt's SW/CE3K album? I only have the Dolby Surround re-release, which doesn't have liners, but if the original release had notes, I might have seen them online.

[Diego 21]

I remember reading that too, but don't remember where. Maybe it was on this forum though.

[fommes 153]

I checked my CD; is this what you were looking for?

From Gerhardt's liner notes in the original Star Wars/CE3K CD:

Secondly, I asked to include one more movement, Here They Come!, a short, brilliant scherzo depicting a chase and sky flight between space ships, and in including this movement to rearrange the playing order of the now six movements. To this he agreed with enthusiasm.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

he (Williams) liked it so much... that he uses it as concert arrangement since then.

[Marian Schedenig 8,180]

I checked my CD; is this what you were looking for?

From Gerhardt's liner notes in the original Star Wars/CE3K CD:

Secondly, I asked to include one more movement, Here They Come!, a short, brilliant scherzo depicting a chase and sky flight between space ships, and in including this movement to rearrange the playing order of the now six movements. To this he agreed with enthusiasm.

Exactly. And Gerhardt's recording of it is the best I've heard. Not quite as hectic as the LSO OST, but with better sounding horns, and not as lethargic as Williams' own recording. I'm perfectly happy with the tempo on the other Skywalker Symphony tracks, but Here They Come just sounds dead.

[Erik Woods 555]

I checked my CD; is this what you were looking for?

From Gerhardt's liner notes in the original Star Wars/CE3K CD:

Secondly, I asked to include one more movement, Here They Come!, a short, brilliant scherzo depicting a chase and sky flight between space ships, and in including this movement to rearrange the playing order of the now six movements. To this he agreed with enthusiasm.

Exactly. And Gerhardt's recording of it is the best I've heard. Not quite as hectic as the LSO OST, but with better sounding horns, and not as lethargic as Williams' own recording. I'm perfectly happy with the tempo on the other Skywalker Symphony tracks, but Here They Come just sounds dead.

The Utah Symphony does a bang up job of this piece on their Star Wars album!

-Erik-

[Andy 4,092]

My copy of CE3K/SW arrived today, completing my trilogy of Gerhardt recordings. Looking forward to giving it a listen. I should be able to weigh in on this soon.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The Utah Symphony does a bang up job of this piece on their Star Wars album!

-Erik-

Yes.

Also, the aforementioned intro to Imperial March (the Carbon Freeze part from when you see Vader in the smoke and the claw picks up Han) is strictly awesome.

[Marian Schedenig 8,180]

The Utah Symphony does a bang up job of this piece on their Star Wars album!

That's a really good recording, but it feels just slightly mechanic to me, not as alive as the Gerhardt recording. And I can't stand the mix of the prominent harp parts on this album.

[mahler3 478]

Nothing beats The Orlando Pops recording!

[Jay 37,326]

Was looking through my CDs last night and I found that I do have the Gerhardt SW/CE3K cd after all I haven't listened to it in ages.

I still need to get that Zubin Mehta cd at some point

[Andy 4,092]

OK, I listened to the CE3K/SW disc for the first time today...

At the risk of perhaps sounding either ignorant or obtuse, I cannot say I loved this recording. There wasn't really any one track that knocked my socks off. Because I'm so used to the original recordings, I look to the arrangements for sources of inspiration in rerecordings like this. Many of the arrangements I was previously familiar with (Throne Room, Here they Come) from other discs. I suppose if I had heard this one first, I might be more impressed, but nothing here really wowed me.

And The Last Battle... ugh. Too many edits. How can you cut the timpani solo out of the Last Battle? Not to mention the (typical) tempo problems. That slow down of Leia's theme during the "Ben's Death" segment of the Last Battle was like watching paint dry.

As for Close Encounters, the key moment there is of course the 5 note motif when the mothership lifts off. I've heard just about every recording of this, and none come close to the original. I think it's the tolling of the chimes supporting the brass that do it for me. This was nice, but...

I'm happy to have it as a curiosity piece and to fill the collection, but I think I'm with Mr Olivarez. This one seems a bit superfluous when we already have decent sounding original recordings.

[Quintus 5,399]

You're right. Albums like that are nothing more than gimmicks, but I admit that I like the odd gimmicky album. I dunno, as great as the scores are; sometimes I just like to hear an alternative (high quality) recording.