Danny Elfman's Batman (2CD Complete)

[Trent B 337]

Still, it's strange that the clear ones can't seem to be found in stores, but the black ones can. Is there an exclusive patent on them that I'm not aware of?

I'm not too sure about that. Perhaps most stores don't realize you can buy blank 2-CD cases at various online places.

I would generally get a clear single disc case as a lot of our Limited Editions say "Limited Edition" on the back inside tray picture.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I still haven't received it yet, but after reading all these complaints about the sound quality, it doesn't sound all that bad on the LLL website clips.

[Jay 37,337]

Other than the clipping in the main title on disc 1, the sound is fine and people are overreacting

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Yeah I heard some clipping in track 1 (I had to at least preview it and confirm that this isn't a score for me) too, but since I own 4 or 5 other LLL limited releases and they all sound amazing, it's a clear case of doing the best job with crappy elements.

[Jay 37,337]

Yep

[Wojo 2,453]

I'd love to hear this album.

Who's gonna get theirs first, me or Koray.

[Andy 4,118]

Still, it's strange that the clear ones can't seem to be found in stores, but the black ones can. Is there an exclusive patent on them that I'm not aware of?

I'm not too sure about that. Perhaps most stores don't realize you can buy blank 2-CD cases at various online places.

I would generally get a clear single disc case as a lot of our Limited Editions say "Limited Edition" on the back inside tray picture.

Where on line is the best place to get the clear double cases?

[Ollie 1,059]

They are beginning to make these damn cases cheaper and cheaper. I hate the double jewel cases. Frankly I prefer the old clamshell, because they were much sturdier.

I miss the plain original jewel cases with the black trays. None of my old CD jewel cases have cracked. My original Cocoon CD from 1987 has managed to survive all these years compared to the newer released which seem to crack whenever you sneeze on them.

Here's a place you could try:

http://www.sleevetown.com/

Both Krull and Batman arrived in great shape until I opened the case, then I discovered that both trays were broken and no longer attached. If they weren't clear I could have fixed them with leftover parts but since they are clear I'm going to have to find some somewhere. And I don't want to bother LaLaLand with this because based on how the trays were attached the odds of them breaking again are strong.

[fommes 153]

Just got this together with Krull and Batman: The Movie!

Just as an aside: did LaLaLand finally stop with those annoying sticky stickers on the top of the CD case?

[Ollie 1,059]

They aren't putting them on limited editions but they are for regular releases. Predators has it on the case.

[Andy 4,118]

Thanks for that link, Mark!

I have to replace my case for Tombstone. Got it from an FSM member, and it reeks of cigarette smoke. Yecch.

[Jacob 0]

Guys remember when ever you get a broken CD case it's not the label's fault it's the fault of the postal service.

Wasn't complaining Trent. I realize the labels don't send out broken cases and that they get damaged during shipping.

But when primarily online vendors use a particular style case that experiences frequent breakage in the mail, it can be frustrating.

It's an opening for the labels to improve their service and engender some extra goodwill.

[paleo 63]

Guys remember when ever you get a broken CD case it's not the label's fault it's the fault of the postal service. The post office people really don't handle packages very well if there's nothing written on it that says, "FRAGILE" in big letters.

Plus you can easily buy a bulk of blank 2-CD and single disc cases from various online sources for very cheap. Just buy the bulk and replace the cases it's that simple. No need to bitch about the broken cases.

Sorry, but I disagree. It would be very easy to just use a more robust case, particularly since everybody knows how mail is handled. There are plenty of other jewel case models out there, and I'm just fed up of having to replace the jewel case every time. And, the clear double cases are not easy to get and not cheap.

Just think of it that way: if I send fossils to a colleague by just putting them in a paper envelope, he/she is also not likely to blame the inevitable damage on the USPS, but on me, and rightfully so.

And finally, bitching is fun

[Ollie 1,059]

It doesn't matter how well they pack them, they still can crack or break because they are flimsy.

[paleo 63]

Wasn't complaining Trent. I realize the labels don't send out broken cases and that they get damaged during shipping.

But when primarily online vendors use a particular style case that experiences frequent breakage in the mail, it can be frustrating.

It's an opening for the labels to improve their service and engender some extra goodwill.

Well, if that isn't complaining . But I guess we have the right. Should a vendor not be interested in hearing criticism, so that they can improve their customer service? Bestbuy sends me surveys all the time, for example...

It doesn't matter how well they pack them, they still can crack or break because they are flimsy.

That wasn't my point; I'm well aware of that (there's just no direct analogy in my job). Anyway, I see the choice of jewel case as first step in getting a quality product to the customer. If it's flimsy, don't use it for your product. On the other hand, packing does matter at least to some extent. LaLaLand uses bubble wrap, and at least normal jewel cases survive most of the time. Other retailers like MovieMusic use a cardboard box (without any protection at all), and most of the CDs I got from them were broken; even the single jewel cases.

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't care how cracked the case is as long as the CD is undamaged. Some people who work for the various mail services are very attentive to fragile objects -- a CD shaped box is often obvious, especially if the return address seems to be music related -- but the rest of them are jerks who see "fragile" as an invitation to play hockey with your mail.

[Ollie 1,059]

SAE is probably the best at packing and I've still received cases that get broke during shipping. Either that or they are leaving the factory already damaged on the inside because quality control sucks.

As far as the labels go I wish they wouldn't use the all clear cases because the trays on those have a tendency to break easier.

[Jacob 0]

Wasn't complaining Trent. I realize the labels don't send out broken cases and that they get damaged during shipping.

But when primarily online vendors use a particular style case that experiences frequent breakage in the mail, it can be frustrating.

It's an opening for the labels to improve their service and engender some extra goodwill.

Well, if that isn't complaining .

Nah. I just mentioned mine was broken also, that it wasn't a big deal for me, and then dispassionately offered an objective analysis.

I ordered Batman, Krull, and A Guide for the Married Man through MovieMusic.

They all came together in the same box and only the tray for Batman was partly damaged.

[Nemesis 245]

SAE is probably the best at packing and I've still received cases that get broke during shipping. Either that or they are leaving the factory already damaged on the inside because quality control sucks.

As far as the labels go I wish they wouldn't use the all clear cases because the trays on those have a tendency to break easier.

Yes SAE is very good, but I like Intrada also very much if not even more.

[John Crichton 4]

The first order I ever got from LaLa was just a single disc, but all the "teeth" that hold the disc in place had broken. Fortunately the disc wasn't scratched. Nothing like that has happened to me since, though.

I seem to recall getting a broken 2-disc set at some point, probably from SAE, but I can't remember what it was.

These things just happen. You'd be better off griping about the post office workers doing it than blaming the labels.

[Trent B 337]

When I got my copy of FSM's "The Search For Spock" from Movie Music the case was cracked. Luckily though, Peter sent an extra blank 2-CD clear case for me to replace the broken one.

[Wojo 2,453]

I put all my CDs into binders and throw the paper and plastic cases away. Who needs 'em!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Movie Music's boxes seem to be the best in my experience. But I've not had a bad experience with SAE. La-La Land is the only offender as far as the labels go. Every case has come cracked or in one case destroyed. With the Lost in Space set, it seemed to be partly the fault of the jewel case. It's a bad egg. Literally every part of the case seems to be defective, like not correctly proportioned. Really poor quality control.

[Trent B 337]

I agree that Movie Music's boxes are the best.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Listening to it right now. I think the sound quality is fine aside from a few minor hiccups here and there. Some people had me thinking it was going to sound like a vintage 1930's recording.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Movie Music's boxes seem to be the best in my experience. But I've not had a bad experience with SAE. La-La Land is the only offender as far as the labels go. Every case has come cracked or in one case destroyed. With the Lost in Space set, it seemed to be partly the fault of the jewel case. It's a bad egg. Literally every part of the case seems to be defective, like not correctly proportioned. Really poor quality control.

I've noticed LLL physically writes addresses on their envelopes. Haven't they heard of printers?

Intrada's packaging is the best I've seen - combination of a small box and layers of bubblewrap. I think I've only ever had one CD cracked, and it was just a tiny one on the back.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I like that MV hand writes all the addresses. Good ol' quality service. I've never had problems with broken CD trays. With the teeth, once or twice, but never the tray (at least when they come from these labels, from eBay on the other hand...)

[Trent B 337]

When I got my Predator CD I noticed Peter had sent a blank clear case along with it and wondered why. I examined the case and at first didn't notice anything then I noticed the top part for the other side (not the spine area) was cracked to hell. Apparently Peter got it like that, so it's definitely the fault of the post office. I really wish the postal people would handle packages better.

[Jay 37,337]

Just read these interesting tidbits over at FSM boards:

Quote

The Batman album seems to be a hybrid of the original album and LLL's expanded edition. What's really weird is the track "Joker Flies to Gotham/Batwing I" which, on the LLL album, ends on a somewhat unresolved note, like it just fades out with more music playing.

On this version, the track has a proper ending. I wonder if this came from Elfman's archives or a better source was found after LLL released their version.

Quote

I'll throw in my confirmation that "Joker Flies To Gotham & Batwing I" does indeed not have the fade out that the Lalaland record has. I guess Lalaland just didn't have nearly the same amount of time, man power or Elfman himself to help out.

Quote

Aside from some missing music here, two differences from the La La Land release is that the ending of track 2 does not fade out as quickly and track 23 has the complete ending to the cue. If you have both, some minor editing can occur to have the best of both worlds.

More info at: http://chrono-score.blogspot.com/2011/01/batman.html

[Ollie 1,059]

MV had originally posted that they used the same source material LaLaLand did.

So one of two things could have happened, they found the missing material or it was recreated by editing.

That's just pure speculation on my part.

[Trent B 337]

That is an interesting read. Nice find there Jason.

[Turbo 54]

Here are the last 13 seconds of the "Joker Flies to Gotham / Batwing I" from each release so you can compare for yourself. Their bitrate is 192.

Elfman Box:

http://www.4shared.com/account/audio/nNHkYdw0/Elfman_Box.html?&page=g

La La Land Release:

http://www.4shared.com/audio/axmNnknB/La_La_Land.html

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I always thought that fade-out was weird on the LLL but I put up with it because I thought that might have been the best quality from the film mix sources they might have had. There's another odd mixing difference in "Roof Fight" where we hear the piano in the film and the album, but it's not in the LLL complete score.

[Ollie 1,059]

The Elfman box set sounds different, almost like an edit or another source was used after the statement of the Batman theme.

[Trent B 337]

Someone who has this set, was kind enough to send me the cue.

My analysis is based on the time from the LLL set. The first 20 seconds or so of both pieces the mix is virtually identical. However, after that point the version on the Elfman / Burton set the mix is different. The music is left and right channels, really no middle section like you hear in the LLL version. However, the cue that's on the Elfman / Burton set definitely sounds like it was meant to end this way and not a hard fade out. Either some how LLL overlooked this when they were doing the score, or most of the film mixes they used were directly from the film stems themselves (for the music only portion) and even had to do a bit of reconstruction for listening purposes.

Either way it is cool to know the real ending of this cue was found and I'm for sure going to use it for my personal edit of the score for my iPhone. I never really cared for that fade out like how it is in the film and on the LLL set for this cue.

[Jay 37,337]

Wow thanks for the links Turbo. Definitely prefer the Elfman Box version.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

MV will be pressured to send out replacement discs.

[Trent B 337]

MV will be pressured to send out replacement discs.

It wouldn't surprise me if people demand replacements.

Honestly I'm happy with the LLL set, I can just easily replace this particular cue with the Elfman / Burton versopm for my iPhone.

[bigjimwilson 253]

I believe the LLL version was taken from the mix stems in the film, and the fade out was there to allow for a transition into the Prince song in that scene. But you can really hear the difference in sound quality in the two versions. It's nice to hear the proper ending to the cue, but it sounds nasty!

If that's what most of the stuff LLL had to work with sounded like, I applaud their efforts even more in producing the 2-CD set. (Which I utterly love)

[Ollie 1,059]

Yeah LaLaLand took that from the stems. Makes me wonder if a better source was found or some creative editing?

[Jay 37,337]

You can't create that from editing, they clearly had access to the full original recording. I'd guess the makers of the Elfman Box had access to some stuff from Elfman's personal collection that LLL didn't have access to

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Not some, ALL!

He had a storage unit filled with all of his demos and worktapes and recordings, etc.

[Ollie 1,059]

It's a shame the same material couldn't have been provided to LaLaLand.

I'm curious to hear if there are any other differences that will pop up, especially concerning the sound quality.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

In terms of LLL's releases, or in general? Because Beetlejuice definitely sounds a lot better than the OST, to my ears.

[Ollie 1,059]

For Batman.

LaLaLand's release has some sound issues, which MV explained was due to the quality of the material. It would be a shame if after their exhaustive effort to round up all the material, Elfman had better kept material all along.

[Jay 37,337]

That is indeed what sounds like happened!

For my personal edit, I might start with the Elfman box as a base, then start mixing in material that only appears on the LLL set until I have a complete and chronological score. I already prefer Descent Into Mystery with the louder choir as heard on the OST/Elfman Box more than what appeared on disc 1 of the LLL set anyway, so now's as good a time as any to make a custom complete score.

[Kevin 22]

So overall, was I right to not order the LaLaLand release and keep my original one?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Uh, no.

[Jay 37,337]

There is still music exclusive to the LLL release that is not in the Elfman box, not the mention the exclusive liner notes and packaging, and remastering of the OST tracks that got changed for the Elfman box

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Aren't all liner notes exclusive? Have two releases of the same score used the same booklet? I mean if you want to get technical, the Elfman box has exclusive liner notes as well