Sherlock (BBC)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The fun thing is, compared to the other two solutions, the one Sherlock gave seems quite sensible and plausible.

It isnt of course. It's completely preposterous, and unlikely...but not completely impossible. Which is why it works.

[KK 3,307]

How is it still open ended? How could Sherlock's account not explain the thing entirely without any remaining doubts?

I myself was a bit disappointed by the real solution, but I expected that. What I was really impressed with was how they cleverly addressed that, especially when Sherlock addresses that "everyone's a critic".

For a while I was thinking we might not even get the real solution in this episode because the "how" didn't matter. The "why" did, which would have been such a cop-out.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, after two years of feverish speculation I guess it was impossible for it not to have a "Oh...is that it?" feeling. They must have realized it and cleverly addressed it.

In a way the same thing happened with the resolution of the series one cliffhanger. Sherlock nearly shoots, but then Moriarty gets a call and blows the whole thing off....

That works because it's funny...

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

To me the reason Sherlock tells Anderson is because Anderson represents the "fans"....us, who have been waiting for two years how he pulled it of. It's a great meta joke. Like Anderson's reaction of disbelief to it.

For most of the Story John doesn't give a shit about how he did it, and even if he did he certainly wasn't gonna give Sherlock the satisfaction of explaining it. He just wanted to know why he had not been in contact for two years. Only at the end, when things between them are OK again, does John actually ask. But by that time it's no longer relevant.

[Jay 37,281]

Well I am not as enthusiastic about the episode as others here. In fact I'd say it was easily the worst of the 7 episodes aired so far. The editing was all over the place, like they just filmed a bunch of separate ideas and then tried to edit it all into a cohesive episode somehow... and for me it didn't fully work.

Like once Sherlock was back in london, and one by one we got these little vignettes of him revealing himself to different characters, some of them were just off and could have easily been deleted, like him returning to 221B for the landlady to see, complete with slow dramatic reveal timed to the main Sherlock theme...... it was like it was a parody of itself!

Also so much time was spent with explanations for surviving the fall, discussions about the past 2 years and what people did, and why people did, there was so little time left for the actual case they solve in the episode, it was like an afterthought. And to all be stopped by flicking an off switch was just kinda dumb.

I also didn't like how at the end of the episode, we see another maniacal master villain was in charge of everything. We already did that throughout seasons 1 and 2 with Moriarty, it would have been nice if Season 3 was just 3 different unconnected cases that they solve together. Mix it up a bit. Oh well.

As for how he survived the fall, Marcy and I realized probably halfway through the opening explanation that it had to be a fake one, and Sherlock's own explanation at the end I don't think is real either. I think those paralyzing flowers will still be involved somehow, especially since Molly was supposed to be an important part and she really wasn't is his explanation. Perhaps it will tie into the season finale somehow or something.

So overall kind of a meh episode for me, but still a great show and I can't wait for Sunday nonetheless.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Like once Sherlock was back in london, and one by one we got these little vignettes of him revealing himself to different characters, some of them were just off and could have easily been deleted, like him returning to 221B for the landlady to see, complete with slow dramatic reveal timed to the main Sherlock theme...... it was like it was a parody of itself!

In a way you are correct. Most of the episode was about it reveling it it's own popularity, and for me they got away with it.

[Jay 37,281]

Well, I hope they settle down and do a proper case on Sunday without all this meta stuff.

I also didn't like that once again, Sherlock tricked John and then laughed in his face at the end. I think in this one circumstance, Sherlock should have just been honest and humble to John. It just felt wrong.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

As for how he survived the fall, Marcy and I realized probably halfway through the opening explanation that it had to be a fake one, and Sherlock's own explanation at the end I don't think is real either.

Wait? You realized that half-way?

The moment BULLOCKS was heard I knew it was not the real one.

You probably don't know who Derren Brown is.

Unless the other two episodes still deal with Sherlock's supposed death or Moriarty and his network, then I really think the solution Sherlock have Anderson is the correct one. It's the only one that matches.

But I do agree that I hope they move on from that. Only 2 eps to go!

Btw, what we saw in this episode seems to contradict Many Happy Returns. At least the Anderson part, when he claims Sherlock is ever getting closer and closer.

At first I thought this was an error until I realize we actually never see Sherlock in those clips of solved cases, his presence is suggested but never shown.

Which in my mind means that Anderson, as usual got it wrong!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I also didn't like that once again, Sherlock tricked John and then laughed in his face at the end. I think in this one circumstance, Sherlock should have just been honest and humble to John. It just felt wrong.

There is something to be said for that. There is a very narrow line they walk with Sherlock being awesome and brilliant or just being a complete asshole. Series two gave us a slightly more human Sherlock. His prank with the bomb seemed out of character even for Sherlock. If I were John I would have bunched him. (again)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Anthony 572]

How is it still open ended? How could Sherlock's account not explain the thing entirely without any remaining doubts?

I myself was a bit disappointed by the real solution, but I expected that. What I was really impressed with was how they cleverly addressed that, especially when Sherlock addresses that "everyone's a critic".

For a while I was thinking we might not even get the real solution in this episode because the "how" didn't matter. The "why" did, which would have been such a cop-out.

It's still open ended because the 'real solution' was recounted by Sherlock to a member of the fan club. It cannot be certain that he is telling the truth, maybe the truth is a secret he doesn't want to get out and so he has to tell a different story. It could of course be the true account of what happened. That is what I like about it, whilst it could be a disappointing solution I always thought of it as just what Sherlock said to the guy and that we won't know for certain.

What SafeUnderHill said. Hopefully we'll never know whether what he told Anderson was correct.

I hope Watson doesn't even find out.

Whatever the "true" solution is will be disappointing - the fun comes from guessing - and Mark Gatiss addressed this perfectly in the script by offering several implausible and one slightly-more-plausible explanation. If you want to view that as the actual set of events so be it.

I still think there is some other sort of explanation (or maybe none at all!) but I'll be satisfied if we never hear of it again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep, perfectly ready to move on!

"One of our men died to get this information" is a phrase that pops up several times in the episode. I wonder...

Jason, what were the parts of the ep you did like?

I loved Mary, and the fact that she likes Sherlock.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I dont shave for Sherlock Holmes!

[Anthony 572]

T-shirts are already available.

(I'm not kidding).

Mary, played by Amanda Abbington is Martin Freeman's wife.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah i just read.

Lucky bastard!

Ok, I just watched it a second time.

I agree with Jason about the structure of the episode. Basically it breaks down in 4 different categories.

1- The Solution: Several scenes dealing with how Sherlock survived.

2- Underground Network: The scenes dealing with the terror attack and the kidnapping of John, most likely the start of this series connecting arc.

3- The Return Of Sherlock Holmes: Everything dealing with his actual return. The scenes in the restaurant and diners with John and Mary. The vignettes where he reveals himself to his friends, the early scenes with Mycroft

4- Odds and ends: a lot of character stuff that isnt directly related to any of the other categories. There was actually quite a lot of that. For example most of the scene between Mycroft and Sherlock in Baker Street. Sherlock and his parents and the whole stuff about "How i Did It!" by Jack The Ripper and Sherlock's day with Molly.

This results in a episode with the loosest structure since The Blind Banker. Lots of brilliant stuff, that doesnt all fit in a single overarching plot. Which is really a first in this series.

The bomb having an off switch seems a bit like a cop out. Though to be honest that is the least interesting part of the episode anyway. I'm tired of bombs with red letter timers counting down (do bombs in real live have timers like that? Why would they???)

Jason's objection to Sherlock's behavior during the countdown is valid. But it also brings up a larger issue.

The finale of Reichenbach was incredibly dramatic, and also deeply emotional. With a heartfelt and sincere sacrifice from Sherlock. The eternal loner and cynic, giving his life to save his friends....

But of course it wasnt. It never was anything more then just another clever plan by Sherlock. A fiendish manipulation. Like he manipulated John at the Baskerville army base, to test out a theory. Or how he manipulated Irene Adler throughout A Scandal In Belgravia. And how he manipulated John into forgiving him in the underground.

It's actually weird. For two years we all knew Sherlock had somehow arranged his death. Yet his emotional last scenes rang true.

I wonder if they still will now that we know, actually saw what (probably) really happened? In a way the we all know the trick now.

The real brilliance of the show might ultimately be in the character of John. While Sherlock is an arrogant SOB who loves to trick and manipulate for fun, John Watson is the character the viewer really invests in, just like in the stories.

Cumberbatch is great in this episode, as always. But Martin Freeman is absolutely fantastic. He plays the role completely straight.

"Am I the only one who is acting like a human being?"

His attempt at proposing to Mary is genuinely funny and moving, and when Sherlock finally pops up, the expression of his face, his reaction is simply haunting.

For a show that is occasionally too smart and self aware for its own good Freeman manages to keep it at a human level. He is the shows anchor.

Even in the more comically intended scenes where John attacks Sherlock, you can see Freeman is not playing it for laughs.

[Omen II 1,235]

Ocean's Twelve has scenes taking place at Amsterdam Central Station that were filmed in Haarlem Central Station.

Nobody cares!

I don't disagree with you regarding whether or not they used the right filming locations, Steef, or even the plausibility of being able to uncouple a Tube train carriage between stops without anyone noticing; my observation concerned the continuity error of having a patently different type of train carriage in the climactic scene than the one that was seen on the CCTV footage earlier in the programme.

The train shown on the CCTV footage (a Jubilee line train) is a smaller train with sets of double doors while the train in the tunnel with the bomb on board (a District line train interior) is a larger train with only sets of single doors, so it could not possibly have been part of the same train that was seen on the CCTV. It's not a big deal but is surely a continuity error for a series that invites its audience to pay attention to the minutest detail.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I dont disagree. I'm sure fans will read something into this

[Jay 37,281]

I also liked Mary, thought she was great with Watson, and great with Sherlock. I liked Sherlock solving little mini cases - I always love those scenes. I always loves scenes when he's investigating the crime, and the words pop up on the screen showing you what he's smelling or thinking.

So I liked the Jack the Ripper scene, because Sherlock gleamed a bunch of clues, and then solved everything using them and it all made sense. I didn't like the earlier scene where he tells his captor that his bathroom has no electricity and his wife is cheating on him with his neighbor,etc - and then we never see the clues that led him to those conclusions. I wanted to know how Sherlock gleamed that!

I really enjoyed Sherlock wanting to surprise Watson, and him walking into the restaurant, coming up with a disguise, trying to get Watson to see him earlier but him not, coming back, the final reveal, the way Watson stood up, etc. And then how they kept getting kicked out of restaurants as Watson kept punching him was really funny.

But then what the episode should have had was them reconciling, a valid explanation from Sherlock of WHY he faked his death without telling John, and true deep apology. But instead it went from there into a bunch of different directions before stumbling to an unsatisfying conclusion.

In the end, the whole faking death thing doesn't make a lot of sense. In last season's finale, it was built up that Sherlock was sacrificing himself to save John and others, it was a noble act. Within that same episode, it was shown that Sherlock didn't really die, leaving us to ponder for 2 years not only how he faked his death, but also why it was necessary to fake it without letting John in on it (or at least revealing it shortly after it happened). Surely there was a strong answer to this, and we figured in the next season it would all make sense, and be satisfying.

But instead this episode basically just glossed over it saying he spent 2 years taking down Moriarty's network (how? Why? And why did that have to be done by Sherlock in secret instead of with help?). And cheapened the effect of Watson not knowing by revealing that Molly knew, and 25 homeless people knew, and Sherlock's parents knew, and etc etc. I don't really feel like the episode adequately explained why Watson had to be the last to know, whatsoever. And that should have been the primary goal of the episode quite frankly.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In the end, the whole faking death thing doesn't make a lot of sense. In last season's finale, it was built up that Sherlock was sacrificing himself to save John and others, it was a noble act. Within that same episode, it was shown that Sherlock didn't really die, leaving us to ponder for 2 years not only how he faked his death, but also why it was necessary to fake it without letting John in on it (or at least revealing it shortly after it happened). Surely there was a strong answer to this, and we figured in the next season it would all make sense, and be satisfying.

But instead this episode basically just glossed over it saying he spent 2 years taking down Moriarty's network (how? Why? And why did that have to be done by Sherlock in secret instead of with help?). And cheapened the effect of Watson not knowing by revealing that Molly knew, and 25 homeless people knew, and Sherlock's parents knew, and etc etc. I don't really feel like the episode adequately explained why Watson had to be the last to know, whatsoever. And that should have been the primary goal of the episode quite frankly.

Again, very good points.

From what little we know about Moriarty's criminal network we know that no one ever met him, and no one really knew how they were connected with the whole organization. Moriarty facilitated fairly independent criminals and criminal enterprises very much behind the screens.

With his death, should that not all have fallen apart? Like a messageboard, if the server dies, the whole thing stops and you have to move to Koray's phantom board....

None of this is addressed in any way but a throwaway remark made my Mycroft.

IIRC the original story The Empty House gives Holmes a far stronger motivation for doing what he did. First of all his death was not planned by him. Secondly he could not alter Watson that he was still alive because one of Moriaty's henchmen was at the scene. And his return was actually done so that the last of Moriarty's friends could be rooted out.

All of this was there, in the story, but they didnt use it.

From what info we have now, it might just be that the point of the whole pretending to be death stuff was just to create an epic cliffhanger.

In The Empty House only Mycroft knew, which makes sense (Mary even comments on that ) For this Episode they could justify Molly knowing it. Though it seems a bit out of character for her to not tell John, if she knew how much he had been hurt. The homeless network should probably not have been mentioned at all. They could have just been agents of Mycroft, and therefore under strict orders not to reveal anything.

Speaking of Mycroft. The producers need to settle on who is more alienated from "normal" people. Him or Sherlock. Mycroft thinks of Normal people as goldfish, but unlike Sherlock he wasnt actually surprised that John no longer lives at Baker street and moved on with his life, or was trying to. Something Sherlock seemed to not even have considered. (as always Gattis and Cumberbatch spar brilliantly with each other)

One possible clue about Sherlock not contacting John might be found in an early scene though.

The one between John and Mrs. Hudson. Where she blames him for not picking up the phone once...just once. And him replying that after a while it just got more and more difficult.

In his way John did exactly the same to Mrs. Hudson that Sherlock did to him.

Only John apologizes unreservedly, something Sherlock seems incapable of doing.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Right just watched it, and how good it is to have it back. Loved Molly tagging along for the day. Mary has great presence. I agree that the bomb thing was cruel even for Sherlock, but throughout the rest of the episode he felt decidedly warmer than he has yet. And I also agree that nothing more needs to be said on the death-faking front.

Looking forward to the next two. Bring back Irene!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Mary has great presence.

"Six months of bristly kisses and then his nibs turns up...."

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Lol! She seems more than capable of going toe to toe with Sherlock for John's attention/affection which is great.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

God, I hope they don't kill her of in the series cliffhanger!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I'm betting Gatiss and Moffat have better tricks up their sleeves than just killing people off.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah.

The thing is, how can they beat the previous cliffhanger? And should they even try?

[Jay 37,281]

I personally would love it if this season didn't end with a cliffhanger. The season 1 and 2 cliffhangers were great, but not every season needs one.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah. Maybe leave something open for next season. Hints of a new case or something like that. But nothing major.

You can't beat the series 2 cliffhanger.

It would be like GoT trying to outdo Red Wedding! It's impossible, we are onto them now...

[Incanus 5,713]

It would be like GoT trying to outdo Red Wedding! It's impossible, we are onto them now...

I think the death of Eddie Stark was the moment when everything changed in GoT. No one was safe after that.

And oh I liked the new season opener of Sherlock but it indeed have its faults many of which have been pointed out by you guys in the previous posts. Even though Sherlock is the supreme prima donna when it comes to being clever he might have shown a bit more genuine regret for having put Watson through 2 years of grief for losing his best friend.

As such the plot was a bit in the side lines here and became a bit fragmented by the end, the terrorist threat never materializing in a tangible way as there was no build-up to it. Throwing Moran in there as the inept baddie was a bit unsatisfactory as well. Same goes for destroying Moriarty's network, which was glossed over perhaps even more quickly than in the original story.

But there is a lot to enjoy here, much of which is derived from the sheer fun of getting to watch these characters again. Scenes with Freeman, Cumberbatch and Gatiss are always a joy to watch, especially the wry repartee of the genius brothers. And we got to see their ordinary parents!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It would be like GoT trying to outdo Red Wedding! It's impossible, we are onto them now...

I think the death of Eddie Stark was the moment when everything changed in GoT. No one was safe after that.

Spoilers Inky!

I knew he was gonna die before i started watching, so it didnt have that effect on me. And even story wise it wasnt completely unexpected.

[Incanus 5,713]

It would be like GoT trying to outdo Red Wedding! It's impossible, we are onto them now...

I think the death of Eddie Stark was the moment when everything changed in GoT. No one was safe after that.

Spoilers Inky!

I knew he was gonna die before i started watching, so it didnt have that effect on me. And even story wise it wasnt completely unexpected.

I knew it too having read the novel but you can believe it was a shocker when you first read it as in a more heroic story cavalry would have arrived to stop it. I think I started to look for signs of upcoming deaths in the book series consciously in the next novel as bad planning and guileless heroic behaviour were usually the sure mark of the next victim.

And speaking of Sherlock again I think his return was much more of a thing to those Strand magazine readers who had been horrified when Arthur Conan Doyle had killed him off after such a succesful run of stories. Part of the titillating fun here is that we knew already that he had survived but wanted to find out how. I liked the way the episode actual nods at the theories that fans of the show speculated on after the 2nd season finale.

[Jay 37,281]

I wish I hadn't known about that before I saw it, but sadly I did. Never know how it would have impacted me had I not known ahead of time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Scenes with Freeman, Cumberbatch and Gatiss are always a joy to watch, especially the wry repartee of the genius brothers. And we got to see their ordinary parents!

Sherlock and Mycroft, despite not having a very warm brotherly relationship do share a bond in the fact that there is a constant battle of intellectual one-upmanship going on.

I guess neither have any real attachment to their parents, them being "goldfish"".

I can kinda sympathize with Sherlock though. I often don't have the patience to listen to yet another variation of a story from what happened at work that my mum told me 2 times already but forgot about.

[Incanus 5,713]

Scenes with Freeman, Cumberbatch and Gatiss are always a joy to watch, especially the wry repartee of the genius brothers. And we got to see their ordinary parents!

I can kinda sympathize with Sherlock though. I often don't have the patience to listen to yet another variation of a story from what happened at work that my mum told me 2 times already but forgot about.

But they had such smashing time in London!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It does have fantastic matinee performances!

Was it me or was the bombing plot very similar to that of V For Vendetta?

Not just the Guy Fawkes stuff, but more the plot of blowing up parlement with a bombed train, which is what I believe V was trying to do.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Yeah I thought it was a pretty obvious homage or whatever.

Because that wasn't just the plot in that movie, that was what Fawkes himself planned albeit with dynamite and no subway.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Amazon has soundclips and tracktimes for the series 3 CD. No titles yet.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sherlock-Series-Original-Television-Soundtrack/dp/B00HL367FQ/ref=sr_1_19?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1388782403&sr=1-19&keywords=soundtrack

[KK 3,307]

I wish I hadn't known about that before I saw it, but sadly I did. Never know how it would have impacted me had I not known ahead of time.

I didn't know about it when I first read the book. And I went through it with absolute certainty that Ned Stark was going to escape. But then it happens at the end, and I couldn't believe what I read. I mean this is the main character we were talking about here! When I read the second book, I was careful to avoid spoilers and was awaiting Ned's miraculous return. But other deaths happened instead, and that's when I realized that Martins was a ruthless, cold-blooded murderer from which no character was safe. Absolutely no onem

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I knew that Ned was going to die, but I didn't realize how soon into the story it happened, so I was still pretty shocked by it.

[Glóin the Dark 1,218]

I didn't know that was going to happen. Even during the scene (in the TV series), I was thinking: how's he getting out of this, then?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jason, just out of curiosity.

Did you really consider that the solution Anderson gives at the beginning was correct until the middle of the ep?

[Jay 37,281]

No of course not, and I never said that. I said we were with it until maybe midway through that explanation, not midway through the ep.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

LOL phew. I was getting worried.

I still can't believe I kinda bought it up until "BOLLOCKS"

Bringing Derren Brown in was silly enough, but Sherlock kissing Molly?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bloody hell that was awesome!!!

There doesnt seem to be any clear reference to last episodes occurences. So I guess that will be left for the series finale.

This is pretty much like series 2, in which Baskerville was a completely seprate episode save for the brief scene at the end.

Cumberbatch delivers maybe his best performance as Sherlock yet. Certainly the most rounded. The best man from hell, yet in many ways also the best best man... If that makes sense.

Freeman once again makes the perfect straight man, and the character of Mary fits perfectly into all of this. In many ways the anti-matter to Sherlock.

Dozens, possibly hundreds of little character moments. Loved Sherlock and John drunk

The structure slightly resembles Scandal In Belgravia where a bunch of smaller, insignificant cases eventually all connect to the episodes main mystery. No bombing plot this time, but a murder at a wedding.

It's weird that for much of the start of the episode there seems to not be any story, and slowly it all connects.

Stylish direction, love the conceit of the courtroom scene.

Also really noticed the music! Arnold and Price to some very fun variations of the Sherlock theme, and the solemn military music was very good.

There is much, much more actual plot in this episode then in The Empty Hearse. I'll definitely need to see it again.

Sherlock made a speech about vows. The last ep is called His Last Vow...hmmm...I wonder.

[Olivier 5]

Was it me or was the bombing plot very similar to that of V For Vendetta?

Not just the Guy Fawkes stuff, but more the plot of blowing up parlement with a bombed train, which is what I believe V was trying to do.

I thought of that, too, when I saw the train.

Yeah I thought it was a pretty obvious homage or whatever.

Because that wasn't just the plot in that movie, that was what Fawkes himself planned albeit with dynamite and no subway.

The lack of subway at the time must have been the reason for his failure.

I loved the cruel way they toyed with he audience, with two false explanations, a lot of waiting, then giving the solution (while hinting slightly it might not yet be the one-- though I'm sure it is, and they're just making fun of the journalist and the viewers thinking it's too simple to be the truth) right i the middle of a suspenseful scene.

Those solutions were hilarious too.

Mine was missing the "identity" of the cadaver they used as a dummy, and the people carrying the deflating/deflated airbag around the building that had hid it from Watson's view.

Have you seen the documentary "Unlocking Sherlock" that aired a little before (a few daysor so)? Very interesting.