Intrada presents Spacecamp

[Wojo 2,453]

It's not supposed to be funny, Mojo. I just don't understand how you can be so angry for something which is basically a non-issue.

A non-issue? It's only a non-issue because people like you don't make soundtracks. The day that happens, I'll stop buying soundtracks.

As I have already started to do, much due to the pervasive C&C ideology. Thankfully, most commercial labels outside the niche labels still present soundtracks "my way", so I still buy the occasional soundtrack. And of course - when FSM or some other label releases a C&C soundtrack of a Williams score that has not been previously available, I have no choice but to pick it up (since I am a Williams completist). I'll just have to live with that.

<sigh> You do that.

[Quintus 5,399]

However, we can still SPEAK UP and put our preferences, choices and tastes into words. In fact, I believe that is what boards such as these are made for.

Indeed. Apparently it's the "ad-nauseam" thing which irks a few of the members

Wojo, you're not serious, are you? Come back ya loon!

[Wojo 2,453]

Wojo, you're not serious, are you? Come back ya loon!

I'm never serious about anything.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go look for my sister. She's not answering her cell phone.

[Jacob 0]

Consider Disc 4 of the Star Wars Anthology. Is it fair to assume that just because all of the outstanding music on that disc could not fit onto the original albums or even onto discs 1-3, the cues were unfit for listening? Because they weren't good enough for the original concept albums, they should be considered to be inferior and never be heard outside the film?

Yeah, in a way. Although I don't mind them being on that "bonus disc", as I never play it anyway. I've got my STAR WARS experience covered by the previous three discs.

So your Star Wars experience excludes cues such as Carbon Freeze?

Fascinating.

I take it you passed on the '97 expansions, as well as the more recent Indy box?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

This is the best thread in the world, ever.

[Thor 7,493]

I take it you passed on the '97 expansions, as well as the more recent Indy box?

No, I owned the RCA 2CD's for many years, but only played them once or twice in that time. I sold them just a few months back, as I just played the Arista CD's anyway.

I picked up the expanded TEMPLE OF DOOM, just to give it a chance, but hated it (the presentation, not the score). It's now on my sales list. I'm content with the old INDY soundtracks, and even think the DCC RAIDERS could have been shortened a bit (the Polydor is superior that way).

[Wojo 2,453]

Did you know I'm also the biggest Led Zeppelin fan in the world? I'm actually a Led Zeppelin completist, you could say. But I only want the greatest hits on Mothership remastered. I don't have time to listen to all the albums. I used to have the LPs but who wants those things sitting around. I only want those 20-some songs hand selected by Jimmy Page that are the best. The other songs just aren't worth my precious time.

[Erik Woods 555]

The fact is that I've never - EVER - thrown out personal insults unless provoked first.

Reeeeeeeeeeally?

http://www.maintitles.net/forum/discussion/73/20/david-arnold/#Item_4

-Erik-

[Nemesis 245]

Klaus Badelt is the future.

[Delorean90 42]

I almost feel like my issue with Thor's ideology takes a slightly different slant from most. Frankly, Thor, I'm a bit confused as to why you buy an album of music, or what you like about music in general. Particularly your comments on the Star Wars Anthology are baffling, because some major music from these works wasn't available until Disc 4. You're telling me that you rarely (if ever) listen to "Carbon Freeze"? It's a stupendous piece of music, and one of the standout cues in a brilliant score. It gives me the impression that you're almost more concerned about the mold of the thing than its contents. If your Star Wars experience is limited to the previous three disc, that's quite the Reader's Digest condensation you've got there.

It's as though you're trying to place film music in a pop box--the artist writes a bunch of tunes, and the ones they like the best make the cut--it's all for the goal of an album. But film score is much closer to ballet or opera (and I know you've disputed the similarities, but bear with me). Suites and complete works give different, good, experiences. When I buy a score album, I want to hear the music that the composer wrote for the film, straight up. If he wants to revisit it on album, that's nice and I welcome the alternate experience, but in the world of film scores, we don't have the same kind of opportunity for both preservation and tinkering as some other genres. (And BTW, while they're not as much of an impact today, I think you're underestimating the impact of spacial and financial concerns--often tied in together--on score albums. Heck, Varese expanded Star Trek and STILL couldn't afford all the choral costs!)

It's not that I don't sympathize, either. I feel like the album for Silvestri's Dutch could've used some resequencing, and cues like the "Brandenburg Concerto" excerpt could've been relegated to the bonus section. But I didn't want the full thing to be unrepresented.

What do you think, by the way, of Intrada's approach that they tried with The Mean Season? You had the album experience, with all remaining cues off to the side, and those that are willing can resequence it in chronological order--and it costs the regular $20. Not every score could be done this way at the same price, but when they can, do find that to be satisfactory?

I feel a bit like I'm rambling at this point, but perhaps any response you give might help me to better organize and focus my thoughts here.

[Wojo 2,453]

I wish Klaus Badelt would score Deathly Hallows 2. Then we'd get a complete score.

[Faleel 5,346]

i think expanded soundtracks are awesome for example TLC i like the expanded "Indy's First Adventure" and "The Boat Scene" plus "On The Tank" and "Marcus Is Captured", and i wish "The Other Jones", "Dont Call Me Junior, and "Der Konnigratzer" were on the album.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Did you know I'm also the biggest Led Zeppelin fan in the world? I'm actually a Led Zeppelin completist, you could say. But I only want the greatest hits on Mothership remastered. I don't have time to listen to all the albums. I used to have the LPs but who wants those things sitting around. I only want those 20-some songs hand selected by Jimmy Page that are the best. The other songs just aren't worth my precious time.

Hey, I'm the biggest Led Zeppelin fan in the world!

[Wojo 2,453]

Did you know I'm also the biggest Led Zeppelin fan in the world? I'm actually a Led Zeppelin completist, you could say. But I only want the greatest hits on Mothership remastered. I don't have time to listen to all the albums. I used to have the LPs but who wants those things sitting around. I only want those 20-some songs hand selected by Jimmy Page that are the best. The other songs just aren't worth my precious time.

Hey, I'm the biggest Led Zeppelin fan in the world!

Yes, but you have all the albums. You are robbing yourself of the experience that is earned only by listening to a hand picked selection of songs. Jimmy Page knows his music better than his biggest fans. You must allow yourself to become special and listen to the absolute minimum quantity of music by this artist, or it will destroy the special experience. Do not be deluded by the idea that a complete and chronological presentation of rock music is superior to the special experience garnered by the greatest hits compilation, a sacrosanct concept album and one you are unworthy to recreate yourself.

[Demondm810 399]

Can't remember if this is a Spacecamp thread or not.... But it was delivered and sounds glorious.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Does anyone know how the sound quality compares to the Japanese release? (Or has that been discussed already?)

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Thor, however, seems to have a very, I don't know, almost militant way of bringing up the subject ad-nauseam on occasion, and when people disagree, two posts turn into a debate where the same points are brought up multiple times.

I would appreciate it if you gave a more nuanced picture of the situation if you're going to reference previous debates. The fact is that I've never - EVER - thrown out personal insults unless provoked first, but I've been the recipient of HUNDREDS (from being likened to cancer to being wished dead....I kid you not!....and only because I have a different approach to soundtracks)! You talk about me being "militant" and repetitative, but I only give my views when it is relevant for a score I like that is presented in a format I DON'T like. The ensuing debates only occur because people continually question my taste - as if the world crumbles beneath their feet because someone else likes a thing differently than they do. I would be perfectly content to just say my piece and leave it be, but others want it differently. I've been a member of the FSM board since the beginning, many years before yourself, so I would appreciate it if you bore that in mind before you quoted "FSM history". Thank you.

Thor, virtually every thread this issue comes up, it is usually rooted in a comment to the effect that you don't want the score in the C & C form, or congratulating a re-issue of an existing Album release (as in this very thread) specifically for producing an Album presentation.

Anyone who wishes you dead or other insults must have a large insane streak, and have nothing to do with the general response in the forums.

You bring it up where it is relevent, but you do so EVERY TIME it is even REMOTELY relevent, i.e. almost any CD release announcement where the score may interest you.

Perhaps you should bear in mind that your CURRENT behavior, TODAY, is what most of us who frequent FSM will see.

The history is something I've seen through the posts I've observed since joining FSM a year or two back, and did I not also state that my OWN experience of debating you was healthy and friendly?

Your reputation is one largely of your own making here, and like anyone else, I can only speak to what I observe in both your writings, and other's replies.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Currently posting from space. It's a bit hissy, but it sounds good. I think I heard an error in "In Orbit".

There was something almost perverse about the way it slid in between Amazing Stories Vol. 3 and The Witches of Eastwick.

[Thor 7,493]

Delorean:

I almost feel like my issue with Thor's ideology takes a slightly different slant from most. Frankly, Thor, I'm a bit confused as to why you buy an album of music, or what you like about music in general. Particularly your comments on the Star Wars Anthology are baffling, because some major music from these works wasn't available until Disc 4. You're telling me that you rarely (if ever) listen to "Carbon Freeze"?

That's right. I have no particular need for that piece - or any other unreleased piece - as long as the representation I've got works as a fluid listening experience. Remember - I NEVER use the film as a frame-of-reference when enjoying soundtracks. Never.

It's as though you're trying to place film music in a pop box--the artist writes a bunch of tunes, and the ones they like the best make the cut--it's all for the goal of an album.

Yup, that is exactly what I think (pop music, classical, electronic, you name it), and it has been the ideology of soundtrack producers for many decades. It is only in the last decade or so that the C&C ideology has spread like wildfire.

When I buy a score album, I want to hear the music that the composer wrote for the film, straight up.

That's fine if you do. I, however, don't.

If he wants to revisit it on album, that's nice and I welcome the alternate experience, but in the world of film scores, we don't have the same kind of opportunity for both preservation and tinkering as some other genres.

I don't think there should be any more tinkering there than other genres. Except by the album producer when he prepares a listening program for us.

What do you think, by the way, of Intrada's approach that they tried with The Mean Season? You had the album experience, with all remaining cues off to the side, and those that are willing can resequence it in chronological order--and it costs the regular $20. Not every score could be done this way at the same price, but when they can, do find that to be satisfactory?

It's an OK compromise solution. It's only when you do the same across more CD's (and consequently higher price) that I don't like it. I would prefer two separate soundtrack releases, though.

Onebuckfilms:

Thor, virtually every thread this issue comes up, it is usually rooted in a comment to the effect that you don't want the score in the C & C form, or congratulating a re-issue of an existing Album release (as in this very thread) specifically for producing an Album presentation.

Of course. It is part of who I am and what I think about soundtracks. It will inevitably be part of my criticism if a score I have a relationship to is presented in a format I like/dislike. Just like when you guys complain about given cues that have been left off the soundtrack. It's kinda hard to leave it out, and I see no reason why I should. Album presentation is one out of many facets that warrants commenting - in addition to the music itself, the performance, the sound quality and so on.

The history is something I've seen through the posts I've observed since joining FSM a year or two back, and did I not also state that my OWN experience of debating you was healthy and friendly?

Your reputation is one largely of your own making here, and like anyone else, I can only speak to what I observe in both your writings, and other's replies.

Indeed, and if you've paid attention, you'll see that it is always a question of me receiving tons of personal offenses (not necessarily by you, but by many others) for just having a different taste in things. I never initiate these things; it's always a question of over-defensive people with low tolerance levels for opposing preferences.

[Datameister 2,042]

We're still talking about this?

Demondm810, I'm jealous that your copy arrived. I checked my doorstep, but nothing yet. Oh well, I figure it can't be more than a couple more days. Hopefully.

[Wojo 2,453]

Great to have this out (I was on holiday and just barely caught in time), so that I can chuck the ol' CD-R of the Japanese CD in the trash bin. And even BETTER to see that it is NOT C&C and that they have kept the original LP program, in remastered format.

Applause to Intrada!

I never initiate these things; it's always a question of over-defensive people with low tolerance levels for opposing preferences.

I...never...initiate...whatever.

Thor, since you don't like complete and chronological, I won't tell you how I really feel about you. I'll just leave you with this:

[Thor 7,493]

Great to have this out (I was on holiday and just barely caught in time), so that I can chuck the ol' CD-R of the Japanese CD in the trash bin. And even BETTER to see that it is NOT C&C and that they have kept the original LP program, in remastered format.

Applause to Intrada!

I never initiate these things; it's always a question of over-defensive people with low tolerance levels for opposing preferences.

I...never...initiate...whatever.

Thor, since you don't like complete and chronological, I won't tell you how I really feel about you. I'll just leave you with this:

Oh yeah....I forgot - I actually applauded Intrada for releasing a CD that catered to my taste.

Oh my, the controversy! The outrage! THE HUMANITY!

[Datameister 2,042]

We're still talking about this?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

So do we prefer the album "SpaceCamp" or Erich Kunzel's?

[Faleel 5,346]

Great to have this out (I was on holiday and just barely caught in time), so that I can chuck the ol' CD-R of the Japanese CD in the trash bin. And even BETTER to see that it is NOT C&C and that they have kept the original LP program, in remastered format.

Applause to Intrada!

I never initiate these things; it's always a question of over-defensive people with low tolerance levels for opposing preferences.

I...never...initiate...whatever.

Thor, since you don't like complete and chronological, I won't tell you how I really feel about you. I'll just leave you with this:

Oh yeah....I forgot - I actually applauded Intrada for releasing a CD that catered to my taste.

Oh my, the controversy! The outrage! THE HUMANITY!

to me, "Album Flow", "listening experience", and "Musical Narrative" take the backseat to a little thing called: Emotion

which is why i love the unreleased cue "A Child Returns" TOD and i like the expanded TLC tracks "Indy's Very First Adventure" and "The Boat Scene"

[Thor 7,493]

to me, "Album Flow", "listening experience", and "Musical Narrative" take the backseat to a little thing called: Emotion

Interesting point. To me 'emotion' belongs very much to those things. I only get emotionally involved in the soundtrack if there is some kind of musical flow that has been arranged specifically for those purposes. A C&C issue only creates irritation (but that's an emotion too, I guess).

[Datameister 2,042]

We're still talking about this?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Has everyone already received a shipping notice? Mine is still pending fulfillment, which is worrisome.

[Datameister 2,042]

Mine was fulfilled on Tuesday...hope yours is soon!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

When did you place your order? Mine was around 12AM, only a few hours after it was announced.

[Faleel 5,346]

to me, "Album Flow", "listening experience", and "Musical Narrative" take the backseat to a little thing called: Emotion

Interesting point. To me 'emotion' belongs very much to those things. I only get emotionally involved in the soundtrack if there is some kind of musical flow that has been arranged specifically for those purposes. A C&C issue only creates irritation (but that's an emotion too, I guess).

tell me how that gives you emotion, the film gives you emotion, listen to Desert Chase by itself, without Indy or anybody else being in peril you wouldnt know whats going on or feel the emotion, thats why i dont like classical music, but love film music

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Has everyone already received a shipping notice? Mine is still pending fulfillment, which is worrisome.

I now own it.

What the hell is the discussion in this thread? I came in expecting pages of gushing over late 80s John Williams and I see a lot of line-by-line quoting which I have zero desire to attempt to read through.

[King Mark 3,631]

Indeed, and if you've paid attention, you'll see that it is always a question of me receiving tons of personal offenses (not necessarily by you, but by many others) for just having a different taste in things. I never initiate these things; it's always a question of over-defensive people with low tolerance levels for opposing preferences.

No,it's more that you make no sense whatsoever in some of your arguments. In that respect I think it's just a slightly delusional obsession you have so it's not worth debating you because when your cornered you revert to not making any sense.

[Datameister 2,042]

When did you place your order? Mine was around 12AM, only a few hours after it was announced.

On the west coast, it was around 4pm on the 16th.

[Demondm810 399]

Does anyone know how the sound quality compares to the Japanese release? (Or has that been discussed already?)

Slight hiss, but the sound is significantly more detailed, bright, and crisp. The bass is very full, but not overpowering. It's a very obvious difference. Can hear individual instruments more clearly. I'm very, very pleased. The old one is already on eBay!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It looks like Williams is looking down at your post and reacting to your putting his score on eBay.

[Datameister 2,042]

[King Mark 3,631]

But your all selling bootlegs. I have a REAL Japanese c.d...it's still precious

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's obsolete.

[Demondm810 399]

I'm selling the real one too!!!! I must admit it pains me to part with it. It was my baby for so many years. But now the new, shinier edition wins out!

[King Mark 3,631]

Shine a light through the disk,do you see tiny holes like I do?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I still have the Japanese Temple of Doom mint with obi strip from the Star Wars fan club. I keep it for nostalgia and it may have superior sound quality/mixing to the new version. I haven't gotten rid of any of my old CDs.

[Demondm810 399]

Not that I can tell....but now that I've taken it out I'm feeling a little nostalgic.

Just ended the listing. Good call KM, I may have regretted that.

Haha I kept the Japanese Temple of Doom as well.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah I'm sure it won't got for 300$ anymore so you may as well keep it

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The liner notes are kind of depressing, recalling a time when we still traveled to the stars and anyone cared about the space program, River Phoenix, Star Trek IV and all the other 1980s entertainment we'll never have anything like again. Makes me feel old.

But the book smells wonderful. Is there an air freshener with a similar scent? I've been meaning to ask this.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Does anyone know how the sound quality compares to the Japanese release? (Or has that been discussed already?)

Slight hiss, but the sound is significantly more detailed, bright, and crisp. The bass is very full, but not overpowering. It's a very obvious difference. Can hear individual instruments more clearly. I'm very, very pleased. The old one is already on eBay!

Well that's frustrating! I was hoping you'd say they were identical so I could still gloat about my Japanese version, and not feel too upset at not having found out about the rerelease until it had sold out. Way to brighten my evening, Demondm810!

[Demondm810 399]

Does anyone know how the sound quality compares to the Japanese release? (Or has that been discussed already?)

Slight hiss, but the sound is significantly more detailed, bright, and crisp. The bass is very full, but not overpowering. It's a very obvious difference. Can hear individual instruments more clearly. I'm very, very pleased. The old one is already on eBay!

Well that's frustrating! I was hoping you'd say they were identical so I could still gloat about my Japanese version, and not feel too upset at not having found out about the rerelease until it had sold out. Way to brighten my evening, Demondm810!

Aw, sorry. but that one sounds quite flat now...

[Jacob 0]

Listening to Training Montage for the first time...

Wow.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

[Delorean90 42]

Delorean:

I almost feel like my issue with Thor's ideology takes a slightly different slant from most. Frankly, Thor, I'm a bit confused as to why you buy an album of music, or what you like about music in general. Particularly your comments on the Star Wars Anthology are baffling, because some major music from these works wasn't available until Disc 4. You're telling me that you rarely (if ever) listen to "Carbon Freeze"?

That's right. I have no particular need for that piece - or any other unreleased piece - as long as the representation I've got works as a fluid listening experience. Remember - I NEVER use the film as a frame-of-reference when enjoying soundtracks. Never.

But see, I'm not talking about the film--I'm talking about the piece of music itself. The "film as a frame-of-reference" issue may apply to the "relive the film" crowd, but all I care about is the quality of music--is it music I want to hear? I enjoy the way music and film work together, but with regards to pointing out unreleased cues I want, the film functions more or less as a radio, alerting me to the existence of a piece of music that I want to be able to revisit.

It's as though you're trying to place film music in a pop box--the artist writes a bunch of tunes, and the ones they like the best make the cut--it's all for the goal of an album.

Yup, that is exactly what I think (pop music, classical, electronic, you name it), and it has been the ideology of soundtrack producers for many decades. It is only in the last decade or so that the C&C ideology has spread like wildfire.

Again, I think you're definitely downplaying the constraints of album space and financial feasibility. I think it's perfectly reasonable--and wise!--to artfully move around the cues when you're having to select excerpts from a score. I can even enjoy the album presentation; I am greatly enjoying the expanded Batman, but there are also things I can enjoy from the album presentation, such as going from "The Bat Cave" to "The Joker's Poem." I'll even acknowledge that some of the greatest film composers have favored album reworkings, but I don't think it's so much that the C & C ideology has so much spread in the last ten years as it has been made more feasible.

If he wants to revisit it on album, that's nice and I welcome the alternate experience, but in the world of film scores, we don't have the same kind of opportunity for both preservation and tinkering as some other genres.

I don't think there should be any more tinkering there than other genres. Except by the album producer when he prepares a listening program for us.

Hm. Okay. I mean, I think that's what I was talking about...Not sure I understand what you're getting at.

What do you think, by the way, of Intrada's approach that they tried with The Mean Season? You had the album experience, with all remaining cues off to the side, and those that are willing can resequence it in chronological order--and it costs the regular $20. Not every score could be done this way at the same price, but when they can, do find that to be satisfactory?

It's an OK compromise solution. It's only when you do the same across more CD's (and consequently higher price) that I don't like it. I would prefer two separate soundtrack releases, though.

I understand.

At this point, the thing that's making least sense for me in all of this is the apparent emphasis on form at the expense of content: I'm just not making sense of the seeming inability to allow in any more quality music from a given work once you've heard it in one form.

EDIT: Oh, and Data, I'll be glad to join in on the Spacecamp discussion when I receive it.