The original Darth Vader's Theme

[Sandor 459]

Of course we all know The Imperial March, also known as Darth Vader's Theme. It's one of the very best and most famous signature themes in history.

However; John Williams originally composed a different theme for Darth Vader which was heard only in and discarded after Star Wars (1977).

In the original liner notes of the LP, Williams calls this theme exactly that: "Darth Vader's Theme", and it seemed to have as much weight as "Luke's Theme", "Ben's Theme" and "Leia's Theme". We now mostly refer to it as 'The Imperial motif' or something like that and it has almost completely been erased from the Star Wars musical lexicon.

I love The Imperial March, but sometimes I wonder how a more developed version of Darth Vader's original theme would have sounded had Williams opted to use this melody as the foundation of his Empire Strikes Back score.

What are your opinions on the original Darth Vader Theme?

[Charlie Brigden 5]

As a motif it's nice and harsh, reflecting Vader's spirit well, but I'm unsure how it would have fared being expanded to help carry a full score with Vader as the central musical character. Although I do wish it would have been looked at for ROTS.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

I think you can edit the title.

As for ROTS, I think Williams forgot he wrote this theme.

[Sandor 459]

I think you can edit the title.

As for ROTS, I think Williams forgot he wrote this theme.

I've tried to find a way to edit topic titles before, but I don't think it's possible for 'lowly' members such as myself.

[Jarbas 1]

I'm pretty sure that Vader's original motif was used in AOTC score at the Ambush on Coruscant (film version).

[Sandor 459]

I'm pretty sure that Vader's original motif was used in AOTC score at the Ambush on Coruscant (film version).

You sure? Never heard it in there.

PS. To whoever edited the topic title as I requested: thanks.

[Wojo 2,442]

If it was used in AOTC, it was by virtue of the sloppy cutting and pasting that surprised me that the Ewok theme didn't make an appearance.

And I could have sworn it was used in ROTS in some sequence involving holographic communication between the Jedi and Yoda on Kashyyk when Jedi were still the good guys, but it's not in Vosk's edit.

[Naïve Old Fart 6,637]

I have always thought of that motif as a "mini-theme" for The Death Star, and I was saddened not to hear it in ROTJ.

[Wojo 2,442]

It was used. It was discussed here a few months ago, and I believe it comes into play at some point in the Battle of Endor when the DS II fires on a Rebel capital ship, and maybe when the Executor crashes into it, and maybe in the core or explosion sequences. Not entirely sure, but if you blink, hey, you missed it.

[indy4 152]

Both themes are great. I think we should also note the often overlooked ascending 4 note motif, heard for instance at the end of "TIE Fighter Attack."

[Muad'Dib 1,514]

The perfect moment to use that motif in ROTS would have been after we hear the combination between the Funeral theme and the Imperial March (brilliant moment by the way, one of the few times in the film where you don't have to make an effort to listen to the music) and then...

Daaaa-da-de-daaa!

And where exactly did it appear on AOTC?

[Incanus 5,519]

Both themes are great. I think we should also note the often overlooked ascending 4 note motif, heard for instance at the end of "TIE Fighter Attack."

You mean the Death Star motif.

The old Imperial/Darth Vader motif from Star Wars would have been nice to hear as a complementary bad guy material both in the OT as well as in AOTC and ROTS to hint at the subtle build up to the Empire and as bridging material for Imperial March. It would have been perfect in that capacity.

I find the Imperial motif to be somewhat like the Nazi theme from Raiders of the Lost Ark, a short slightly militaristic and menacing auxiliary motif. It might have turned into a proper character theme if Williams had really worked on the short snippet in the following films but I am quite happy that JW opted to write a new and proper theme for Vader.

I don't think the Imperial theme ever appears in the Prequels, certainly not in AOTC.

[crocodile 6,294]

Well, you know, if you accept SW continuity as it is, The Imperial March is a variation on the Anakin's theme and it represents everything that is human about the character. The Imperial theme from SW is, well, in fact THE Imperial theme. Anakin Skywalker doesn't appear in SW. There is only this guy in the suit who does evil things. Only in TESB his storyline resumes, so to speak

Karol

[Jay 27,216]

Interesting way to look at it...

[Jarbas 1]

You can hear the motif in AOTC after Cordé expires.

[Luke Skywalker 1,285]

You can hear the motif in AOTC after Cordé expires.

yes

but i think its coincidentical, not intentional.

Now, that the kamino music sound likes departure of boba fett, now there you have something to think about

[Charlie Brigden 5]

I don't hear it. I hear something that sounds vaguely similar, but I don't think it's supposed to represent that motif (not that Williams hasn't been similarly thematically inconsistent before).

[Incanus 5,519]

I don't hear it. I hear something that sounds vaguely similar, but I don't think it's supposed to represent that motif (not that Williams hasn't been similarly thematically inconsistent before).

I can't hear it either. There is a dark horn section for Cordé's death but nothing clearly connecting to the Imperial motif.

[Jarbas 1]

But it's very similar!

[Delorean90 32]

It's startlingly similar. I first noticed it, actually when it was tracked from AOTC into that aforementioned holographic council scene from ROTS. It suddenly hit me that I was listening to the Imperial motif from SW, and then upon further research found that it was tracked from AOTC. In both instances, it seems pretty clear a comparison to me. It's slightly abridged, but it's obviously there.

[Datameister 1,394]

It's a coincidence in AOTC, in my humble-but-quite-strong opinion. Williams was not intentionally quoting a theme he very purposefully abandoned over twenty years earlier.

I think the Imperial motif works just fine for Star Wars. But I'm very glad Williams replaced it with the Imperial March in later installments. One less talking point for the "Star Wars is a ripoff of The Planets!" fanatics.

[Delorean90 32]

Eh, I figure it's six of one, half dozen the other, 'cause they always somehow manage to come to the conclusion that "THE IMPERIAL MARCH IS mARS!!!11!!!!11"

If there's one theme I would've liked to have formally reprised throughout the saga but wasn't (other than the Imperial motive), it's the droid theme from ESB. It's a great little theme, and it would've been cool to hear that in scenes like the meeting of Artoo and Threepio.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

It's a coincidence in AOTC, in my humble-but-quite-strong opinion. Williams was not intentionally quoting a theme he very purposefully abandoned over twenty years earlier.

Next thing you know they'll claim to find traces of Han Solo and the Princess in the prequels.

[Demodex 479]

If there's one theme I would've liked to have formally reprised throughout the saga but wasn't (other than the Imperial motive), it's the droid theme from ESB. It's a great little theme, and it would've been cool to hear that in scenes like the meeting of Artoo and Threepio.

I agree, but I also can't believe we didn't get to hear any of Luke and Leia's theme in ROTS.

[Delorean90 32]

Ah, yes! Very true.

[Jay 27,216]

I think the Imperial motif works just fine for Star Wars. But I'm very glad Williams replaced it with the Imperial March in later installments. One less talking point for the "Star Wars is a ripoff of The Planets!" fanatics.

Nah, its a ripoff of "

"!

[Wojo 2,442]

If there's one theme I would've liked to have formally reprised throughout the saga but wasn't (other than the Imperial motive), it's the droid theme from ESB. It's a great little theme, and it would've been cool to hear that in scenes like the meeting of Artoo and Threepio.

I agree, but I also can't believe we didn't get to hear any of Luke and Leia's theme in ROTS.

Nor did we hear the droid theme make a final reprise in ROTJ. Did we?

It's not as if they had zero opportunities to "bond:" the walk to Jabba's palace, their adventures inside and on the sail barge, their reunion on the Rebel Mon Cal cruiser, and their time on Endor.

Which reminds me...why would any of the Rebel troopers on Endor bother to wear camo if Threepio didn't? I can understand Chewie and Han being stubborn, but it's not like a big shiny golden man fits right in with the green and brown of the California Endor forest.

[Jay 27,216]

Don't think about the logic of ROTJ too much or your head will asplode

[Wojo 2,442]

your head will asplode

How appropriate.

[Jay 27,216]

How appropriate.

You fight like a cow

[Luke Skywalker 1,285]

The Droids have a different theme in ROTJ, those approaching jabba's palace (and the luke deleted scene) tracks.

But i think the ESB theme appears during the battle of Endor, when R2 goes to the bunker to help leia and han open the door. Or maybe it is the aforementioned one.

[Demodex 479]

Yes, there is a very brief statement of the original droid motif on Endor. I just can't remember exactly where it is.

EDIT: I put on my ROTJ DVD. The motif is barely heard over the sound effects, but it is at the time stamp 1:39:14, during the montage of Ewoks battling stormtroopers. It is much more obvious on the complete soundtracks that came out in 1997.

[Andy 1,492]

Interesting that the Droids never got a consistent theme. You have the Dune Sea/Jawa music for Star Wars. The wonderful theme introduced in the Echo Base scenes and repeated in Chewie's jail scene for Empire. The humorous motif for the Jabba's palace approach in Jedi. Did Williams forget he already wrote a motif with each successive film?

[Luke Skywalker 1,285]

The theme is different but the mood-feeling is very similar.

[fommes 126]

I'd rather hear Ben Burtt's awe-inspiring sound effects for the droids instead of their musical song anyways!

[Jay 27,216]

ha!

[Henry B 49]

EDIT: I put on my ROTJ DVD. The motif is barely heard over the sound effects, but it is at the time stamp 1:39:14, during the motage of Ewoks battling stormtroopers. It is much more obvious on the complete soundtracks that came out in 1997.

It comes in at 6:15 in "The Battle of Endor I" on the SE soundtrack. Sounds like a pretty clear quote to me. Isn't there a shot of R2-D2 at that point in the film?