What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)

[Jay 37,287]

only if you're talking about the thing you say to dogs when you're in a iditarod race.  The term he was talking about rhymes with bush.

[publicist 4,643]

Johnny Mercer made a hugely successful career out of wrong rhymes then.

[Jay 37,287]

Well anyway it's too bad you can't let yourself enjoy the Dances With Wolves score for what it is.  I love it!

[publicist 4,643]

So Jay, what is it?

[Jay 37,287]

What?

[publicist 4,643]

You must know, you just advised me so. What is it that i didn't write? 

[Jay 37,287]

It just sounded in your review that you wanted Barry to approach the job completely differently then he did, and don't like it because of that, instead of trying to appreciate what he DID write.

 

I think the themes are all excellent, highly memorable, and interplay well with one another.  I don't think its overly simple, or bombastic for the sake of bombast or all one tempo or tone throughout.  I think its nicely varied are developed an thematically varied *shrug*

 

But I totally agree if you didn't like the OST, then there's no way you're going to like the new presentation either.  It's not going to change anyone's minds about the score, just enhance the appreciation of it by those who already did.

[publicist 4,643]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

 you can't let yourself enjoy the Dances With Wolves score for what it is.

 Thus, what is it?

[Jay 37,287]

I just said!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

Masters of the Universe

[Jay 37,287]

John Williams - Star Wars: The Force Awakens

 

A simple playlist that was just the OST, with "Finn's Trek", "Snoke", "The Resistance" and "The Bombing Run" added chronologically into the mix, with "Rey's Theme" and "March of the Resistance" moved to be in front of the main titles (worked as a nice overture), and "Sherzo for X-Wings" moved to be BEFORE Ways of the Force.  Nice listen.  Enjoyed the Finn and Poe material more than ever and I'm just in love with the end credits suite.

 

Joe Kraemer - Mission Impossible - Rogue Nation

 

Love it, haven't gotten tired of any of it yet!

[publicist 4,643]

19 minutes ago, Jay said:

Huh?  I'm sorry, you lost me

 

It just sounded in your review that you wanted Barry to approach the job completely differently then he did, and don't like it because of that, instead of trying to appreciate what is there.

 

 

 

You seem to have saved your full reply later.

 

While i agree it IS highly memorable - if depressingly simple in idea and execution - the movie presents such ripe opportunities for intelligent music i just cannot get over the fact how badly Barry failed that mark (not that he concerned himself with the task of telling the John Dunbar story aside from his big sugarcoat).

 

But then, i said that i guess it's futile to argue for the finer points of musical dramatization: in a way, this was a logic and tangible development when you could tell the complex and sophisticated 70's were over, even in thinking man's epics. Apart from stuff like 'Michael Collins', which was not a huge success, most of the big hits, think 'Titanic', suffer from the same overly simplistic approach musically.

[Jay 37,287]

Maybe Barry didn't have time to make it more complicated.  I read the liner notes of the new release last week and it tells an interesting story about how he had some kind of health issue in 1988 and things looked bad but he recovered and DWW was his first score back.  I can't recall but I don't think he was signed on super early into the process; it did say he told Costner he wouldn't have time to do any source music and he wasn't involved with it at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Barry never really did "complicated". A superior melodist. But certainly never innovative when it comes to orchestrations.

[Marian Schedenig 8,174]

On 17/01/2016 at 10:37 PM, Stefancos said:

I just checked and I actually have to correct myself.

 

That makes the track order for the OST even more stupid....

 

Perhaps Brachio is a bonus track on side 1...

[publicist 4,643]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

Maybe Barry didn't have time to make it more complicated.  I read the liner notes of the new release last week and it tells an interesting story about how he had some kind of health issue in 1988 and things looked bad but he recovered and DWW was his first score back.  I can't recall but I don't think he was signed on super early into the process; it did say he told Costner he wouldn't have time to do any source music and he wasn't involved with it at all.

 

Barry almost died from a 'health' drink to which he developed an allergic reaction. The original DWW album was dedicated to the doctors that saved his life. DWW was originally offered to Basil Poledouris who declined - to his greatest regret - to score John Milius' 'Flight of the Intruder'.

 

But that has got nothing to do with the way DWW sounded. Barry just wrote this way from the mid-80's onwards and never changed - lush tunes, stately tempos, simplistic harmonic backing, counterpoint? Never heard of it! - and while this may work in movies like 'Playing By Heart', 'Chaplin' or 'Indecent Proposal', DWW is an especially vicious example where it simplifies the movie and the core theme it carries - the long way to understanding and accepting a foreign culture.  

 

That's why i lash out at it, pretty as a lot of it is (especially the love theme).

[Jay 37,287]

Gotcha.

[publicist 4,643]

 

 

JOHN WILLIAMS - Born on the Fourth of July

 

Many an eyebrow is raised around here when this score is placed among the composer's very best efforts - sadly, one may say, as per swarm intelligence there seem never to be enough derivative Star Wars, Indiana Jones or Harry Potter sequels to take these high honours.

 

Especially noteworthy as it is one of the select few collaborations with oddball director Oliver Stone, who may not be Robert Altman but whose gripping and polarizing style seems to have rejuvenated the old 70's juices in Williams like the older Altman once did. And just about the right time: in 1989, success already had embalmed the composer in a precious layer of nostalgia-thick vaseline, made of wistful reminiscences of a golden past (all the Lucas and Spielberg blockbusters) and pompous proclamations of an indeed bright american present (literally hundreds of jubilee fanfares for all kind of festive occasions).

 

The academic gusto with which Williams attacks Stone's wistful, pathetic and angry Vietnam recount seen through the eyes of a returning vet, Ron Kovic, makes it abundantly clear that intellectually he was more than up for such task (one wonders how he must have languished in the putrid ponds of, say, 'Always', 'Amazing Stories' and 'Spacecamp').

 

A static trumpet lament opens the score, an eulogy for the dead, and it's one of those classic Williams ideas that sound as if they must have been around forever but also immediately establishes a powerful spell over the whole score, which formal brilliance lies in the treatment of the disparate elements: the solo trumpet, the earthy string orchestra for the yearning look back (another classic theme) and the avantgardist tableaus of the battlefield flashbacks are all rigorously interwoven in aid of Stone's storytelling to which Williams not acts as mere illustrator but indeed a loud musical messenger.

 

And while the thematic material by design doesn't shy away from big pathos, Williams carefully avoids toppling over by juxtaposing the melodramatic moments with either the dreadful stillness of his dirge-like trumpet call or even brutal Ligeti-inspired dissonances (note the ghostly whispers in the latter half of 'Cua Viet River' and the uncompromising atonality of 'The Shooting of Wilson'). This is brilliant stuff and it bears mention that it neither is the norm for the typical end-of-the-year Oscar bait nor indeed for Williams himself.

 

The final apotheosis, the aptly titled credit sequence 'Born on the Fourth of July' dashingly summarizes the whole score and movie in what is one of Williams' most formally ripe cues (he would later expand on the academic air, unusual for film music anyway, and expand it for some of his 90's and 00's scores, mostly in tandem with various solo artists). The MCA crossover album, usually a case for grave concern, is equally conceptually satisfying: there's no dead air, no material simply aiding some movie sequences, the 25 minutes are a perfect summation and while i probably would buy a complete score for archival reasons, this album (or at least all the Williams cues) should have a place in every self-respecting Williams collection.

 

[Incanus 5,713]

It is the most linear of Williams/Stone collaborations and really even in the 25 minute form has a great narrative to it. I think the sincerity with which Williams epitomizes the small town American life with his theme for Massapequa is nothing short of brilliant and not to mention smart. The way he wrenches every ounce of lyricism from the orchestra in the pre-Vietnam scenes of childhood nostalgia and dreams makes what is to come all the more potent. And how the music sinks into the nightmarish (yet not unlistenable) avant garde to depict the chaos and fear of war works as potently on the album as it does in the film. And the majestically glowing End Credits is one of those unmistakable Williams classics.

 

The suite which Williams recorded with Boston Pops and Tim Morrison (who also played the trumpet on the soundtrack) and which is available on the Sony Classical album Music for Stage and Screen along with his suite for The Reivers is worth checking out for the slight re-envisioning of the main elements of the score into an even tighter narrative for orchestra. Of course Williams also adds some subtle orchestrational touches that I think even manage to improve upon the mightily accomplished original in places.

[Bespin 8,480]

For tomorrow, as I just received the CD:

 

John Williams - Sleepers

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The Empire Strikes Back OST

Wow! What a mood-changer that was! 70 minutes later and I'm high as a kite. What a perfect album! The Sony remaster is superb! I love John Williams.

[Romão 2,274]

8 hours ago, publicist said:

 

 

JOHN WILLIAMS - Born on the Fourth of July

 

Many an eyebrow is raised around here when this score is placed among the composer's very best efforts - sadly, one may say, as per swarm intelligence there seem never to be enough derivative Star Wars, Indiana Jones or Harry Potter sequels to take these high honours.

 

Especially noteworthy as it is one of the select few collaborations with oddball director Oliver Stone, who may not be Robert Altman but whose gripping and polarizing style seems to have rejuvenated the old 70's juices in Williams like the older Altman once did. And just about the right time: in 1989, success already had embalmed the composer in a precious layer of nostalgia-thick vaseline, made of wistful reminiscences of a golden past (all the Lucas and Spielberg blockbusters) and pompous proclamations of an indeed bright american present (literally hundreds of jubilee fanfares for all kind of festive occasions).

 

The academic gusto with which Williams attacks Stone's wistful, pathetic and angry Vietnam recount seen through the eyes of a returning vet, Ron Kovic, makes it abundantly clear that intellectually he was more than up for such task (one wonders how he must have languished in the putrid ponds of, say, 'Always', 'Amazing Stories' and 'Spacecamp').

 

A static trumpet lament opens the score, an eulogy for the dead, and it's one of those classic Williams ideas that sound as if they must have been around forever but also immediately establishes a powerful spell over the whole score, which formal brilliance lies in the treatment of the disparate elements: the solo trumpet, the earthy string orchestra for the yearning look back (another classic theme) and the avantgardist tableaus of the battlefield flashbacks are all rigorously interwoven in aid of Stone's storytelling to which Williams not acts as mere illustrator but indeed a loud musical messenger.

 

And while the thematic material by design doesn't shy away from big pathos, Williams carefully avoids toppling over by juxtaposing the melodramatic moments with either the dreadful stillness of his dirge-like trumpet call or even brutal Ligeti-inspired dissonances (note the ghostly whispers in the latter half of 'Cua Viet River' and the uncompromising atonality of 'The Shooting of Wilson'). This is brilliant stuff and it bears mention that it neither is the norm for the typical end-of-the-year Oscar bait nor indeed for Williams himself.

 

The final apotheosis, the aptly titled credit sequence 'Born on the Fourth of July' dashingly summarizes the whole score and movie in what is one of Williams' most formally ripe cues (he would later expand on the academic air, unusual for film music anyway, and expand it for some of his 90's and 00's scores, mostly in tandem with various solo artists). The MCA crossover album, usually a case for grave concern, is equally conceptually satisfying: there's no dead air, no material simply aiding some movie sequences, the 25 minutes are a perfect summation and while i probably would buy a complete score for archival reasons, this album (or at least all the Williams cues) should have a place in every self-respecting Williams collection.

 

 

great post

[Matt C 452]

Stargate: The Arc of Truth - Joel Goldsmith

 

 

 

I definitely hear shades of his late father in this score, but the way Joel utilizes his harmonic lines and brass writing sets him apart. He skillfully incorporates David Arnold's title theme several times (as he did in the TV series), while writing the score in grand symphonic fashion as well. It's not one of Joel's greatest scores, but it is a very enjoyable listen from start to finish. It's a shame the disc is OOP, it's hard to find a decently-priced copy online now.

 

I sincerely wish MGM had greenlit that Stargate Atlantis DTV sequel, I would've loved to hear Joel's extension of his music for the spinoff series as well.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I think TAOT and Continuum were each limited to 1,500 copies, and were snapped up by fans at the time.

 

Joel signed my Continuum booklet.

[Incanus 5,713]

4 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

The Empire Strikes Back OST

Wow! What a mood-changer that was! 70 minutes later and I'm high as a kite. What a perfect album! The Sony remaster is superb! I love John Williams.

The programme is a bit wonky and the dramatic arc is a bit lopsided but you can't fault the music.

[Trent B 337]

About to finish up the complete score (on the End Credits) for Star Trek Nemesis.

 

The more I listen to it in complete form the more I like it.  It's one of those scores that a lot of good and interesting material was left out of the OST and needed an expansion.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

 

followed by

 

Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

 

followed by

 

Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

 

I think I like this score.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Jerry Goldsmith - The Haunting

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

49 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

 

followed by

 

Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

 

followed by

 

Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

 

I think I like this score.

 

Reminds of when I recently listened to Independence Day three times to prepare for Harald Kloser's glorious new score.

[Jay 37,287]

Independence Day is one of my absolute favorite film scores of all time.  I think I'll listen to it now.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Would that constitute a joke?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Arnold's score is good, but I have a feeling Kloser and Wanker's will be better.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

So far, I have the following lined up for today:

 

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

Star Wars Sony remastered OST

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'll see if I can shave Philosopher's Stone down to 40 minutes. It might be possible, but I reckon if I can't let some tracks go, I can settle for 50 minutes instead.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's a rare case of a 2+ hour score where it's all good and can be enjoyed apart from the film.

[Jay 37,287]

I love "Three Note Loop"

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's truly one of those desert island scores.

[Incanus 5,713]

Heidi by John Williams: A lovely piece of writing from the Maestro, particularly for the woodwinds and strings. There is an innocent child-like enthusiasm and lyricism to most of the material complimented by the ruminative woodwind moments for the grandfather and the gentle bashful almost courtly love theme that gently winds through the album and is fully heard in the special arrangement at the end of the main programme. It really is an early showcase of Williams' drama skills which are best on display in the yearning and passionate Shadows and the slow beautifully unfolding finale in Miracle, which sparkle with his customary magic.

 

Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? by Alex North: A superb Baroque tinged piece of dramatic scoring that delves with subtlety and no small amount of compassion into the troubled relationship of the main couple of the story. Chamber-sized approach feels entirely right for the play turned into a film and North brings his usual unusual to the orchestrations and achieves some wonderful effects with it that give the music its distinct coloration. The music plays a fine line between detached and involved but culminates into Party's Over which begins with subdued but powerful emotional release full of regret and sorrow in the form of a religioso theme turned lullaby and continues with Sunday, Tomorrow - All Day where the main Baroque tinged nocturne theme gently offers a final small kernel of hope with its stately but tenderly orchestrated calm. Well worth investigating but be prepared to delve deeper than hummable themes with this one as much of its power resides in the nuances of the excellent orchestration, writing and musical concept although the disc is not devoid of purely emotional rewards either as North manages to bring in some gorgeous melodies as well.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Lincoln 

The Lost World 

Assassin's Creed's Syndicate 

The Hateful Eight  

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

NBC News recording sessions

Williams Olympic themes collection

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

 

Nothing is better than it!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Except for Star Trek Nemesis.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Nothing is better than it!

 

Then why isn't it part of your Holy Trinity?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

It transcends rankings!

[Lewya 360]

Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Catch Me If You Can - John Williams

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Lewya is Gulliermo del Toro?! 

[Incanus 5,713]

A John Williams fan eh? I like this del Toro fellow.

[Lewya 360]

Yeah, but at the same time he has mentioned 26 composers. Here is a list of all the composers he has mentioned on Twitter, someone made a list - http://www.imdb.com/list/ls031012914/ Hm, notable exception: No James Horner! He must be a pretty big film music fan at least! 

 

I also found this:

July 2014 Guillermo del Toro: The way Spielberg used the camera, and still does to this day... I remember one of the first times I noticed the director was Duel. I was watching Duel and I was like, “Wow!” I saw it at a drive-in theater. I remember when the truck goes over the edge and it has that dinosaur roar... I remember catching all that at that age. The way he staged it, I remember thinking “Wow, how does he do that?” His filmmaking is classic and timeless.

Quint: Especially in that era. Even 1941, which is sloppy and overproduced, but I still love it. Everything from Duel and Sugarland Express through to about Temple of Doom has a particular edge, a hunger to it. That's not to say he doesn't have that skillset now... The rise of the Tripod in War of the Worlds is as masterfully staged as anything he did in the '70s and '80s.

Guillermo del Toro: And the entirety of Catch Me If You Can, if you ask me.

Quint: I love it, too.

Guillermo del Toro: For me Catch Me If You Can is a master class in brisk cinema. You watch that movie, it's a lesson in effortless, perfect staging. It's one of those movies that I watch at least 4 or 5 times a year. Not always from the beginning, but it grabs me and I'm there. I scouted one of the locations in Catch Me If You Can here in Canada, in Quebec. I wanted to shoot part of Crimson Peak there as just a geek saying I'm using the same plaza that Spielberg used. Unfortunately for Crimson Peak it was too expensive to move the crew in, so I had to give it up.

Quint: Have you ever thought about working with Spielberg on something?

Guillermo del Toro: You know, I've met him and we talked. We talked about Mountains of Madness at some point with Dreamworks, but you know... those things either happen or they do not happen. I would love to watch him stage one scene. Any scene.

Quint: You've never visited him on one of his sets?

Guillermo del Toro: No. Jeffrey Katzenberg has offered to barter me going for a day or two, but unfortunately I'm always working! I have very little down time.

Quint: I'll never forget the surreal feeling of meeting him on the set of War of the Worlds. I've spoken with him a few times since and it's not like the shine has worn off or anything, but there's something about seeing the director of your favorite movie at work, in his element...

Guillermo del Toro: He also knows everything about everything.

Quint: He's so easy to talk to because he's such a geek. He's one of us...

Guillermo del Toro: But that's a little bit like saying that Brad Pitt has two legs and the same anatomy that we do! (laughs)

Quint: True, but it took a huge amount of pressure off of me. The experience wasn't as intimidating as it could have and should have been because he was more interested in engaging in a movie geek conversation than a filmmaker/press guy conversation. I mean, the dude's an icon. Him, George Lucas and maybe Hitchcock... those guys were as famous as their movies...

Guillermo del Toro: That's rare. But beyond that, the batting average is so high. It's great to meet somebody that lives in your times that has that. It's not that he has three or four good movies. You can count them in the dozens.

Quint: Hey, I'm just saying... I recommend going to watch Steven Spielberg work.

Guillermo del Toro: I will, while I can. It would be a privilege. I grew up admiring clean staging and another guy that stages in a different way, but with equal precision, is Polanski. The staging is almost the polar opposite (from Spielberg), but amazing staging. The Coens have amazing staging. In the past, the guy I would have loved to have known is Schlesinger. The way he stages in Marathon Man... even towards the end of his days he did a little known version of Sweeney Todd with Ben Kingsley that is really, really, really incredibly well-staged. And sordid as fuck! I highly recommend people look for it. It smells of urine and dogshit. It's merciless.

Oct- 15 DEADLINE: What other movies have obsessed you?
DEL TORO: I have a handful I watch over and over. The Big Lebowski is one. Catch Me if You Can. Duel. Every day, I watch one or two movies and those are almost like symphonic music or favorite songs. The one that accidentally entered that realm lately is No Country for Old Men because I was reviewing it to interview the Coens. And all of a sudden that one started to echo a lot the way The Counselor and some of the ideas of the world. I started to watch them back to back. Road Warrior is another.

 

He seems obsessed with CMIUC. Damn, why can't he and Spielberg go out and do At Mountains of Madness and let Williams score it while he still is able to. Now THAT is a project I want to see and Williams to score! It is shame that it probably won't happen, at least not while Williams is still alive

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Star Wars, Cinema Gala.

A bit of a lethargic performance. Not as great as Kunzel, Gerhardt or Utah Symphony performances.

[Quintus 5,399]

On 18/01/2016 at 10:57 PM, publicist said:

 

While i agree it IS highly memorable - if depressingly simple in idea and execution - the movie presents such ripe opportunities for intelligent music i just cannot get over the fact how badly Barry failed that mark (not that he concerned himself with the task of telling the John Dunbar story aside from his big sugarcoat).

 

 

"Depressingly simple"? Really? You sound a bit drama queenish here tbh pub. How does a score from twenty odd years ago make you feel so depressed in the here and now? That's no different really to saying, "universally beloved 1977 blockbuster Star Wars has depressingly simple dialogue." How could such a statement ever rise above pointlessness? It's busy thinking for the sake of it, the critic's struggle.  

 

Dances With Wolves is indeed a simple (read: ideological), sprawling movie built for lazy Sunday afternoons. The music Barry provided couldn't be any more befitting. Thank god he didn't approach it in any other, more "ambitious" way, because it'd be a different film entirely, and the broad romantic sweep would be ruined. When I think about it, lightning was bottled when they mixed that movie. The restful narration, character dialogue, sounds and musical score, make Dances With Wolves the kind of ASMR experience I can really appreciate.