crocodile 8,000 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I can't completely disagree with you on this last bit. It does wander towards his Americana sound, true. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I can't completely disagree with you on this last bit. It does wander towards his Americana sound, true.KarolThat it does but it could be said more to be of Williams' own sound, which is so informed by what we call Americana. Still material like Homecoming sounds like it could have been written by Vaughan Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I wish his Star Trek concert arrangement was more than just the Klingon theme sandwiched between the main theme. He did a fantastic 30 minute suite from TMP in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 452 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Turbulence - Shirley WalkerI still love it. It's a challenging but enjoyable and clever listen. Her scoring voice was truly refreshing and memorable... I miss her. Wish she had the chance to do Goldsmith-sized output... I would probably buy every single one she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Fall and Resurrection by John TavenerThe massive piece he wrote to grace the new millennium. It has some really cool stuff in it. At times a bit too monolithic for my tastes, but it has some really heinous moments where the choir and the orchestra really bring hell to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Well, it's better than War Horse ...A John Williams lite?Great sonics on this one ...Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 What was the last John Williams score that you really liked, Alex? Dead Again (Patrick Doyle)Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 He doesn't like any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 What was the last John Williams score that you really liked, Alex? Dead Again (Patrick Doyle)KarolMy bet is on Empire of the Sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 That we know, but I was wondering if there's anything in post-2000 repertoire that tickles Alex's fancy.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 - The Mecha World- Catch Me If You Can- The Phantom Menace CD 2Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I like Catch Me If You Can too and very much so.So you didn't like Geisha then? Have you heard the superb 30-minute suite? It's terrific.What about War of the Worlds? That's a completely something else from Williams. No "themes", nostalgia, the film is not heavily spotted, oppressive and cold music - can't accuse him of playing it safe on this one. In fact you could say he successfully managed to alienate a lot of his fans. Whenever I hear those timpanis in The Ferry Scene (or, in fact, all the score) I am reminded of Alex North, his 2001 in particular. And his use of voices and synths together is really chilling, but subtle - The Intersection Scene is marvellous. War of the Worlds (Williams)Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I like Catch Me If You Can too and very much so.So you didn't like Geisha then? Have you heard the superb 30-minute suite? It's terrific.What about War of the Worlds? That's a completely something else from Williams. No "themes", nostalgia, the film is not heavily spotted, oppressive and cold music - can't accuse him of playing it safe on this one. In fact you could say he successfully managed to alienate a lot of his fans.Whenever I hear those timpanis in The Ferry Scene (or, in fact, all the score) I am reminded of Alex North, his 2001 in particular. War of the Worlds (Williams)KarolOh yes WotW is superb modern action/horror score. Both spectacularly spooky choral techniques and nice Rite of Spring type orchestral mayhem with a Williams-y twist.Catch Me If You Can is both gorgeously melodic and entertaining throwback score and highly effective in the film I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I like Catch Me If You Can too and very much so.So you didn't like Geisha then? Have you heard the superb 30-minute suite? It's terrific.What about War of the Worlds? That's a completely something else from Williams. No "themes", nostalgia, the film is not heavily spotted, oppressive and cold music - can't accuse him of playing it safe on this one. In fact you could say he successfully managed to alienate a lot of his fans. Whenever I hear those timpanis in The Ferry Scene (or, in fact, all the score) I am reminded of Alex North, his 2001 in particular. And his use of voices and synths together is really chilling, but subtle - The Intersection Scene is marvellous. War of the Worlds (Williams)KarolI like Geisha but you asked which ones I 'really' like. Haven't really listened much to WOTW yet. No themes but written in the symphonic idiom which sounds quite familiar for Williams to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Williams and the Martian fart foghorn of Doom were by far the best things about WotW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Williams and the Martian fart foghorn of Doom were by far the best things about WotW.Pretty much yeah. Gotta to love the timpanis on overdrive in that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Broadly speaking the score is the sort of thing I'd like Williams' concert works to be more like. Not every cue would fit the bill, but there's a lot of nice idiosyncrasies in there which would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I know what you mean, something more primal and aggressive, like William Kraft. Proactive rather than reactive. Maybe if Williams gets round to a concerto for percussion... KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Going through Superman: The Animated Series. It is actually much, much better than I expected.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 King of Kings 2 CD - MIklos RoszaThe Ten Commandments (Complete Boot) - Elmer Bernstien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Gotta to love the timpanis on overdrive in that score. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I know what you mean, something more primal and aggressive, like William Kraft. Proactive rather than reactive. Maybe if Williams gets round to a concerto for percussion... Williams' concert music needs more moments like that in the first movement of the cello concerto, with those thundering timpani or toms or whatever they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Der Medicus (The Physician) by Ingo Ludwig Frenzel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Der Medicus (The Physician) by Ingo Ludwig FrenzelI wonder why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Precisely why. I'm a fan of CC's year underdog recommendations. Most of them are fantastic hidden gems.This one is a good score, but not as impressive as I'd thought it be. Doesn't bring anything new to the table.And I knew you were one of us Filmtrackers at heart BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 And I knew you were one of us Filmtrackers at heart BB I'm not a Filmtrackser. I just like to know my enemy... Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 After the Horner Shrine closed, Filmtracks became the doorway to Hades as far as I'm concerned.It's where the mentally ill naturally congregate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 And I knew you were one of us Filmtrackers at heart BB I'm not a Filmtrackser. I just like to know my enemy...Likewise, but then a even broken clock is right once every hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 After the Horner Shrine closed, Filmtracks became the doorway to Hades as far as I'm concerned.It's where the mentally ill naturally congregate....The trolls are amusing, which is why they're permitted to post there (although I guess there's only so much one can take). But look past that, and you have a really great community there.And the place offers quality reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 And the place offers quality reviews.Yeah, but not by Chris Clemmensen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The trolls are amusing, which is why they're permitted to post there (although I guess there's only so much one can take). But look past that, and you have a really great community there.Please! That place makes FSM looks decent.THIS is the best place on the web Kalasus Khomanei! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 There are a few porn sites I like better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 And the place offers quality reviews.Yeah, but not by Chris Clemmensen. I don't know who Chris is. But I know a guy named Christian there who runs the place and writes great reviews.The trolls are amusing, which is why they're permitted to post there (although I guess there's only so much one can take). But look past that, and you have a really great community there.Please! That place makes FSM looks decent.Nah, the regulars at Filmtracks are more civilized and less elitist. Not to mention a greater variety of scores (a lot of stuff most people never hear about) is covered at Filmtracks than other places.THIS is the best place on the web Kalasus Khomanei!I don't know...it doesn't get much better than the Youtube comments section! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 And the place offers quality reviews.Yeah, but not by Chris Clemmensen. I don't know who Chris is. But I know a guy named Christian there who runs the place and writes great reviews.Like this shite?http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/africa.htmlhttp://www.filmtracks.com/titles/fantastic_voyage.htmlhttp://www.filmtracks.com/titles/dragonslayer.htmlGimme a break!BTW, Chris is short for both Christopher and Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well, there are definitely many reviews I disagree with. But when compared with most writers out there, he knows how to back up his opinion well, and his work often makes a nice read, with just the right balance of depth and humour (something you don't see a lot out there). I don't have to agree with a review to consider it a good review. I measure a good review by how well he/she can support why he/she did/didn't like the score, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 See, that's what puts me off of him and his site, his almost constant disapproval of "dissonance". And I've never seen him able to back up that opinion well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 KK. It is NOT allowed to post positive comments or praise about Filmtracks on JWfan!Continue this course and you will find yourself both banned and unfriended.If I were to meet a Filmtracks contributor on the street i would poo into my own hand and throw it at him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Don't you usually do that anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If I were to meet a Filmtracks contributor on the street i would poo into my own hand and throw it at him!Some day, we shall meet, and then we shall see what the great Cosman shall do!See, that's what puts me off of him and his site, his almost constant disapproval of "dissonance". And I've never seen him able to back up that opinion well.I agree, to a certain extent. He seems to look for different things in his film music (but so do a lot of reviewers out there) But I wouldn't say he has an aversion for all challenging material. I mean, he's made a point that he appreciates challenging material you might hear in some of Goldenthal's most introverted scores. But I think Clemmenson lies to review scores on how more mainstream collectors will appreciate it, and how it works in context. He does this well, or at least I think so.In the end, doesn't it boil down to opinion? I think Rosenman's LotR is a ridiculous and plain silly (a hodgepodge of stylistic techniques that create an unbearable product as a whole), while others praise it for its "brilliance" and avant-garde moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If I were to meet a Filmtracks contributor on the street i would poo into my own hand and throw it at him! Some day, we shall meet, and then we shall see what the great Cosman shall do! .When we meet, it shall be as JWfanners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If I were to meet a Filmtracks contributor on the street i would poo into my own hand and throw it at him! Some day, we shall meet, and then we shall see what the great Cosman shall do! .When we meet, it shall be as JWfanners! Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If you want a hidden gem from last year, check out Maurizio Malgnini's The Paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well, there are definitely many reviews I disagree with. But when compared with most writers out there, he knows how to back up his opinion well, and his work often makes a nice read, with just the right balance of depth and humour (something you don't see a lot out there). I don't have to agree with a review to consider it a good review. I measure a good review by how well he/she can support why he/she did/didn't like the score, See, that's what puts me off of him and his site, his almost constant disapproval of "dissonance". And I've never seen him able to back up that opinion well.Exactly. It's not that I disagree with Clementine's reviews. It's his close-mindeness, glib remarks, shallowness of thought and how he wears his musical ignorance as a badge of pride. Written by and aimed at the lowest common denominator.When it comes to film score critics, James Southall's my main man. Even when I disagree with one of his reviews (i.e. GRAVITY) I still respect the thought processes and values behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well, there are definitely many reviews I disagree with. But when compared with most writers out there, he knows how to back up his opinion well, and his work often makes a nice read, with just the right balance of depth and humour (something you don't see a lot out there). I don't have to agree with a review to consider it a good review. I measure a good review by how well he/she can support why he/she did/didn't like the score, See, that's what puts me off of him and his site, his almost constant disapproval of "dissonance". And I've never seen him able to back up that opinion well.Exactly. It's not that I disagree with Clementine's reviews. It's his close-mindeness, glib remarks, shallowness of thought and how he wears his musical ignorance as a badge of pride. Written by and aimed at the lowest common denominator.Hmm...that's a bit much. I guess I'm part of the lowest common denominator then...As for Southall, I don't know. I respect him, but I don't get much out of his reviews. Often I feel that his thoughts aren't necessarily expressed in a superficial manner and a score is being judged for more superficial qualities like album length or so.Oldboy by Roque Banos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well, there are definitely many reviews I disagree with. But when compared with most writers out there, he knows how to back up his opinion well, and his work often makes a nice read, with just the right balance of depth and humour (something you don't see a lot out there). I don't have to agree with a review to consider it a good review. I measure a good review by how well he/she can support why he/she did/didn't like the score, See, that's what puts me off of him and his site, his almost constant disapproval of "dissonance". And I've never seen him able to back up that opinion well.Exactly. It's not that I disagree with Clementine's reviews. It's his close-mindeness, glib remarks, shallowness of thought and how he wears his musical ignorance as a badge of pride. Written by and aimed at the lowest common denominator.Hmm...that's a bit much. I guess I'm part of the lowest common denominator then...... Let me rephrase that. I meant that he seriously underestimates how far collectors are prepared to be challenged. He assumes his own ignorance speaks for the average listener. None of this a slight against you any fans of filmtracks.I'm tired. Night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well that's the thing. Where you see ignorance, I see someone catering to a specific audience.Filmtracks, by Christian's own admission, was never geared towards more academic listeners like you or myself (to perhaps a lesser degree). Christian has always looked at Filmtracks as a platform to introduce more general fans of film music to what's out there.I can't exactly quote him, but he once said that he always viewed Filmtracks as a "gateway" for casual moviegoers/film music collectors to learn about the world of film music and then move on to other communities where you see a more in-depth discussion of just a single passage from a score.And in that view, Filmtracks is a great place to start. It's where I got started at least. In an already small musical niche, the group of people who look into the more academic aspects of music are even smaller in number. Filmtracks isn't for that crowd. For that, you have cool blogs set up like Ludwig's own site.5-6 years ago, when I first got into film music, I would have hated Alex North's work. Now, he's one of my favourites. In that sense, the whole "gateway" concept really did apply to me. I started from the old Zimmer anthems, and more mainstream Williams fanfares for recreational sake, to coming here and discussing the fine-tuned details and thoughts put into more challenging stuff, with like-minded individuals.I certainly understand what you and TGP are pointing out, I just don't think he does it out of "ignorance". He just does it because he keeps his viewers in mind. Filmtracks probably earns the most viewers out of any film music review sites out there. You think all of those people are hardcore fans of Herrmann, Rozsa and North? No. Most of those people are your average movie-goers who may have heard a cool tune in a movie, and wanted to learn more about the music. And I'm sure most of those people won't find much to enjoy out of the more challenging scores out there. So with that function, Filmtracks reviews are a great place to start.I don't visit there as much as I used to, probably because I've come to outgrow it as my tastes have changed over the years. But I understand the site's purpose and I can appreciate that.Do you understand what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 452 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Rudy - Jerry Goldsmith"Tryouts" and "The Final Game" are quite magnificent. The rest of the score is quite good, but those two cues... oh my word. Goldsmith at his melodic best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 When it comes to film score critics, James Southall's my main man. Even when I disagree with one of his reviews (i.e. GRAVITY) I still respect the thought processes and values behind it.Southall has mastered the art of witty banter and sometimes plain hilarious jokes but his reviews often lack greater musical context. I don't know how often i found generalities like 'a beautiful theme that tugs at the heartstrings' or 'exciting action cue' just to find another unremarkable piece of deja vú modelled on countless predecessors. I hand that to Clemmenson: the background info he provides on the scores (and movies) he's reviewing is often vast and interesting and far exceeds the musical analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 154 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hoosiers (The Concert Suite) by Jerry Goldsmith. This is simply JG's "Best Shot"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well that's the thing. Where you see ignorance, I see someone catering to a specific audience.Filmtracks, by Christian's own admission, was never geared towards more academic listeners like you or myself (to perhaps a lesser degree). Christian has always looked at Filmtracks as a platform to introduce more general fans of film music to what's out there.I can't exactly quote him, but he once said that he always viewed Filmtracks as a "gateway" for casual moviegoers/film music collectors to learn about the world of film music and then move on to other communities where you see a more in-depth discussion of just a single passage from a score.And in that view, Filmtracks is a great place to start. It's where I got started at least. In an already small musical niche, the group of people who look into the more academic aspects of music are even smaller in number. Filmtracks isn't for that crowd. For that, you have cool blogs set up like Ludwig's own site.5-6 years ago, when I first got into film music, I would have hated Alex North's work. Now, he's one of my favourites. In that sense, the whole "gateway" concept really did apply to me. I started from the old Zimmer anthems, and more mainstream Williams fanfares for recreational sake, to coming here and discussing the fine-tuned details and thoughts put into more challenging stuff, with like-minded individuals.I certainly understand what you and TGP are pointing out, I just don't think he does it out of "ignorance". He just does it because he keeps his viewers in mind. Filmtracks probably earns the most viewers out of any film music review sites out there. You think all of those people are hardcore fans of Herrmann, Rozsa and North? No. Most of those people are your average movie-goers who may have heard a cool tune in a movie, and wanted to learn more about the music. And I'm sure most of those people won't find much to enjoy out of the more challenging scores out there. So with that function, Filmtracks reviews are a great place to start.I don't visit there as much as I used to, probably because I've come to outgrow it as my tastes have changed over the years. But I understand the site's purpose and I can appreciate that.Do you understand what I mean?I have nothing against CC, he is a competent reviewer with his own style and idiosyncrasies.It's the retard filled forum that I hate!Reminds me of the cannibal rats infested ship heading for England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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