crocodile 7,990 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 When it comes to film score critics, James Southall's my main man. Even when I disagree with one of his reviews (i.e. GRAVITY) I still respect the thought processes and values behind it. Southall has mastered the art of witty banter and sometimes plain hilarious jokes but his reviews often lack greater musical context. I don't know how often i found generalities like 'a beautiful theme that tugs at the heartstrings' or 'exciting action cue' just to find another unremarkable piece of deja vú modelled on countless predecessors. I hand that to Clemmenson: the background info he provides on the scores (and movies) he's reviewing is often vast and interesting and far exceeds the musical analysis.I used to love his reviews, back in the days of blue pages, but he's lost it in past few years, sadly. He seems to have only two reviews up his sleeve with only titles changing.Christian I still read every now and then. He's often hearing things I don't. He stated a few rimes his reviews are written from the perspective of mainstream average collector. Hence, some more challenging scores get lower rating.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I enjoy his insight into the obvious score greats, but his sneering dismissiveness towards anything which isn't sumptuously orchestrated and traditional in design (ie anything which doesn't align with his own music tastes) ultimately makes me dismissive of him as a reliable critic. Sort of an Alexcremers with a bigger readership. I'm more into objective analysis and critique than I am agenda filled protective zealousness, and thankfully there's plenty of that about. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 He's a bit too hard on Zimmer, to be honest. Sometimes it feels more like a personal vendetta, rather than informed criticism.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 But when has a go at Hans, it's a proper domestic.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 As he should be!Horrible people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 He tends to be harsh for Desplat's drama and almost everything Alex North has ever done (except Cleopatra).Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Yeah it's mind boggling none of them has won an Oscar yet. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Monuments Men by Alexandre Desplat: A very old fashioned throwback of a score where you genuinely feel that Desplat stepped back a bit with his voice and channeled the modes and styles of the war movie of the yesteryear to create a generally upbeat and fun thematic war drama score with a dose of suspense and danger. There is definite brassy patriotic Americana swagger to the piece combined with comedy, unabashedly romantic interludes and hints of local European colour.The main theme and supporting material are hummably memorable and exude energetic old fashioned mood but it never becomes pure pastiche of what has historically come before. The score is above all highly melodic and accessible and the suspense, bursts of action and heroism bring to mind the likes of Williams and Goldsmith and perhaps not surprisingly the Medal of Honour scores by Michael Giacchino in the most starry-eyed moments of patriotism. Desplat ultimately stamps the score with his trademark lyrical sensibility, excellent orchestrational clarity of the writing and it all comes together very nicely and the 1 hour album flies by in no time. Another fine effort from Mr. Desplat.Jurassic Park by John Williams: In honour of JWFan.com's 15 anniversary I thought I would listen to the score that started it all for me and perhaps in a way lead me to this place. Bless you John Williams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'm still waiting for my copy of The Monuments Men.In the meantime, I've been listening to both The Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions and another disc of Superman: The Animated Series.Karol - now listening to The Matrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'm listening to the samples of the new Beauty and the Beast by Pierre Adenot and it might be something I want. Reminds me of Georges Auric score.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Do you understand what I mean? Yes, but don't you acknowledge that CC is potentially prejudicing budding film score fans with his disclaimers and 2/5 * ratings for modernist scores or simply scores by composers he has some kind of grudge against (i.e. Leonard Rosenman)? Maybe he set back the possibility of you appreciating North by several years, and it wasn't until you visited JWFan that your prejudices could be de-constructed, like crumbling sandstone? I don't deny that he has the best intentions, but I believe in the self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you tell certain people (not all, granted) that a piece of music is challenging and unlistenable the more that person will believe it, and simply avoid it. Only through revisiting that piece will the listener begin to open his mind to the music, and forget the reactionary nonsense drilled into him by the well meaning reviewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hans' best, even with the Thin Red Line reprise towards the end. From about 5:20 to 7:30 is transcendent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Do you understand what I mean?Yes, but don't you acknowledge that CC is potentially prejudicing budding film score fans with his disclaimers and 2/5 * ratings for modernist scores or simply scores by composers he has some kind of grudge against (i.e. Leonard Rosenman)? Maybe he set back the possibility of you appreciating North by several years, and it wasn't until you visited JWFan that your prejudices could be de-constructed, like crumbling sandstone?I don't deny that he has the best intentions, but I believe in the self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you tell certain people (not all, granted) that a piece of music is challenging and unlistenable the more that person will believe it, and simply avoid it. Only through revisiting that piece will the listener begin to open his mind to the music, and forget the reactionary nonsense drilled into him by the well meaning reviewer.I agree. It's not hard to just say, "Hey this is tough music to get into, but it's fantastic once you do. Buyer beware." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score_Fan 36 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hans' best, even with the Thin Red Line reprise towards the end. From about 5:20 to 7:30 is transcendent. LOVE LOVE LOVE Angels and DemonsLast thing Iistened to was "Pokémon Reorchestrated: Kanto Symphony", which is basically an orchestra performing the scores for the first two Pokemon games, with added bits. I love it. Sounds like how Williams himself would score a live action Pokemon movie. Here's a few tracks : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Do you understand what I mean?Yes, but don't you acknowledge that CC is potentially prejudicing budding film score fans with his disclaimers and 2/5 * ratings for modernist scores or simply scores by composers he has some kind of grudge against (i.e. Leonard Rosenman)? Maybe he set back the possibility of you appreciating North by several years, and it wasn't until you visited JWFan that your prejudices could be de-constructed, like crumbling sandstone?You have a point. I've come to look at it more as an evolution of my personal tastes though. I usually find that he can back up his aversion to that kind of music well enough for mainstream listeners to understand why they might not like that kind of music.But then again, you raise a good point about not allowing people to give that material another try. Who knows, CC may be responsible for my general dislike and aversion to Vangelis....nah, I just don't like all his music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Do you understand what I mean?Yes, but don't you acknowledge that CC is potentially prejudicing budding film score fans with his disclaimers and 2/5 * ratings for modernist scores or simply scores by composers he has some kind of grudge against (i.e. Leonard Rosenman)? Maybe he set back the possibility of you appreciating North by several years, and it wasn't until you visited JWFan that your prejudices could be de-constructed, like crumbling sandstone?You have a point. I've come to look at it more as an evolution of my personal tastes though. I usually find that he can back up his aversion to that kind of music well enough for mainstream listeners to understand why they might not like that kind of music.But then again, you raise a good point about not allowing people to give that material another try. Who knows, CC may be responsible for my general dislike and aversion to Vangelis....nah, I just don't like all his music What I don't like is Clemmensen's bazillion different ratings! Well okay not bazillion but he should settle for one rating/score I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Sometimes I appreciate those, sometimes I don't.Still better than saying a score sucks entirely because the album is too long (ahem....Southall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Sometimes I appreciate those, sometimes I don't.Still better than saying a score sucks entirely because the album is too long (ahem....Southall).Yes James has gone into autopilot mode these days. Real life interfering with internet cavorting I suspect.Clemmensen is a hit and miss but he sure writes some interesting stuff and does sometimes extremely in-depth background write-ups for the scores he reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Yeah. I love the funny reviews he used to write in the past (his review for The Da Vinci code is one of my favs), but lately, I don't get much out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I have to admit my own review output here has been diminished by the real life stuff getting in the way. I'll try to make a comeback like you did with some appropriately in-depth Hobbit related material in coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Haha, for sure. I'm definitely the last person to have the right to make quality-decline observations...but yes, I'm getting back on track.I can't wait for you to start releasing the Hobbit analyses. The excerpts I've read were fantastic. But I know how laborious it is. Writing stuff like that just takes up so much time, time that is hard to squeeze out of the already hectic schedule of reality and life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Haha, for sure. I'm definitely the last person to have the right to make quality-decline observations...but yes, I'm getting back on track.I can't wait for you to start releasing the Hobbit analyses. The excerpts I've read were fantastic. But I know how laborious it is. Writing stuff like that just takes up so much time, time that is hard to squeeze out of the already hectic schedule of reality and life.Not to mention the revisions I'll have to make to the AUJ analysis in the light of Doug's revelations during the year and the release of DoS score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Lol, I still haven't fixed the "Shadow Over Mirkwood" concept in my own review.These scores can be rather frustrating, at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Sometimes I appreciate those, sometimes I don't.Still better than saying a score sucks entirely because the album is too long (ahem....Southall).Haven't read any of this person's reviews but I factor in album/score length into my reviews, as it pertains to the listening experience and musical development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Right, which is fine. But is it fair to dismiss high quality writing entirely on the basis of just album presentation alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Right, which is fine. But is it fair to dismiss high quality writing entirely on the basis of just album presentation alone? Album presentation and the film score are actually two different things although we tend to forget it quite often. Still I don't put too much weight on the presentation (although it obviously has an art and value in and on itself) but rather the musical content as album is a rather malleable concept these days, when you can whip up your favourite playlist in no time if you don't like the 75 minute presentation. On the other hand we should not in the age of complete scores underestimate the value of a well conceived concept album when soundtracks are concerned. More is not always necessarily better.And no I am not going all Thor on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Right, which is fine. But is it fair to dismiss high quality writing entirely on the basis of just album presentation alone? I don't think that ever happened, it's just that mundane scores are so often spread over 80 minute-albums these days so that it has become a vital point of reference in his reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Right, which is fine. But is it fair to dismiss high quality writing entirely on the basis of just album presentation alone? I don't think that ever happened, it's just that mundane scores are so often spread over 80 minute-albums these days so that it has become a vital point of reference in his reviews.I am looking at you James Horner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 And he's far from the worst offender (meet Brian Tyler, Ramin Djawadi & other RCP slaves, who seem unable to part from even the tiniest bit from their often functional underscore cues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 And he's far from the worst offender (meet Brian Tyler, Ramin Djawadi & other RCP slaves, who seem unable to part from even the tiniest bit from their often functional underscore cues).Brian Tyler is perhaps the composer who does it most consistently with his albums, as a sort of fan service I guess. But yes to the detriment of the whole. Still you can always compile your own nice 30 min. album from that 80 minute presentation. It used to be the composer's job but now it might as well be handed to the entitled fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I am certain riots in the streets would ensue if all those albums weren't 78:59 minutes long, but you have only so much time on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm sure you could squeeze in a few more seconds. If only a stinger or two.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 John CarterUnquestionably Michael Giacchino's finest film work to date and the only one I really like unconditionally. In the very least, way way better than his two Star Trek scores combined. True, towards the end it loses some steam and his action music is his weakest spot (the giant apes fight does very little for me), but the score is so rich and fun anyway. So many themes and motifs and instrumental colours, even the ethnic stuff is integrated successfully. And it also contains one of the most interesting villain themes in recent memory: instead of typical and generic short ominous motif in low brass (or something like that), we get an alluring and quite wondrous ethereal choral material - something that speaks to the nature of the threat very well and doesn't repeat genre clichés at all. It all just feels like a proper space opera and that is something we've not heard since... mid-90's.Speaking of his action music, there's one tiny snippet in Sab Than Pursues the Princess (1:47-2:10) that gets my heart pumping faster with excitement. With that kind of stuff he could maybe pull off a successful Star Wars score, if given a chance. Pity that rest of the cue pales in comparison.Karol - who got his The Monuments Men album just now and will start listening shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I generally "like" this track, it's an above-average Giacchino action music. But that 23 seconds I love.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 This reminds I should take another listen of John Carter. It is a pretty wonderful score. And I agree Karol, the baddie music for the Therns is mesmerizing, really a nice change of pace from the norm. Still the score as a whole is behind Medal of Honor:Frontline for me though, which to date is Giacchino's most appealing score for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug - Howard Shore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 This reminds I should take another listen of John Carter. It is a pretty wonderful score. And I agree Karol, the baddie music for the Therns is mesmerizing, really a nice change of pace from the norm. Still the score as a whole is behind Medal of Honor:Frontline for me though, which to date is Giacchino's most appealing score for me.I rated it as the best "film work". There is still Lost and Frontline and a few animation scores. But this one is up there.In the meantime...The Monuments Men. While it can't be guaranteed the score will appeal to everyone, it is, at the very least, a confirmation of how enormous his talented is. The range is astonishing - from fragile drama scores, through quirky Wes Anderson pictures and temp-plagued Harry Potters, to action-packed Firewall, to something like this. He's just about the most talented and versatile composer working in mainstream at the moment. The themes, orchestrations, the right mix of light-hearted patriotic music with suspense - it's just so infectious and expertly crafted. Never overdone or too silly, which could have easily happened. LSO performs with gusto, as usual. Ladies and gentlemen, we've got the first great score of the year!Something tells me that new French Beauty and the Beast will be second.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Breakfast At Tiffany's (Intrada)Classic. Forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy 55 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 King Kong by James Newton Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 John CarterUnquestionably Michael Giacchino's finest film work to date and the only one I really like unconditionally. In the very least, way way better than his two Star Trek scores combined. True, towards the end it loses some steam and his action music is his weakest spot (the giant apes fight does very little for me), but the score is so rich and fun anyway. So many themes and motifs and instrumental colours, even the ethnic stuff is integrated successfully. And it also contains one of the most interesting villain themes in recent memory: instead of typical and generic short ominous motif in low brass (or something like that), we get an alluring and quite wondrous ethereal choral material - something that speaks to the nature of the threat very well and doesn't repeat genre clichés at all. It all just feels like a proper space opera and that is something we've not heard since... mid-90's.+1. Probably my most listened score in recent years. And agreed on the giant apes fight music being probably the weakest track. The Fight For Helium doesn't feel climatic enough, as well (though the middle part is awesome).Disagree on Sab Than Pursues The Princess, though. Bloody love that track from start to finish.I tried it not once but thrice and still couldn't get anything out of it. I honestly like the LAND OF THE LOST end title more than anything in JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Two full listens of Man of Steel as a penance. Go and sin no more!Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It takes at least 15 times of listening to Giacchino to get anything out of his scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I never bother with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It was only 5 times more than it took for me to get into AUJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Moron! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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