What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)

[Incanus 5,714]

I kind of always hoped there would be a larger context for this theme. Not only the Sith vs Jedi, but also to accompany Anakin's battle within (sounds grandiose, I know). Probably because of its ambiguous title and also the poem phrases Williams chose (about battle raging inside your head or something). It's disappointing they never took the theme further, tweak it and such - it always feel a bit like copy and paste.

Karol

Yes.

It was a one off for that 3-way duel in Phantom Menace and that's fine, but it might have been cool to work it more into the overarching trilogy narrative as a central theme. As it is that little cameo in AotC has "cool" copy/paste written all over it.

Sadly it was never used in a way that it would have had some kind of dramatic arc or purpose throughout the new trilogy. The piece itself would have lent itself very well for such a treatment as it had three very separate musical ideas that could have been varied through the story. E.g. the ostinato would have made fine connecting material that is recognizable and could have been used for the dramatic "larger things at work" idea for these films and not just for the duels. Ah an missed opporturnity.

[crocodile 8,012]

I mean he does use it in that way a bit in the first film - it's not only about the duel. The theme (or, as Incanus puts it, "themes") has this mythical but ambiguous tone - it's both about rage and nobility. Perfect device to illustrate the fulfilling double-edged prophecy.

I also regret Williams didn't expand on that boy soprano solo from Attack of the Clones. One of the most chilling musical moments and probably speaks better to the subsequent tragedy than the lament itself.

Having said the, the rehash of funeral music from The Phantom Menace in Revenge of the Sith I find really cool. I know Williams didn't have time to re-orchestrate Padme's death, but the subsequent burial and Star Destroyer scene (with Vader's theme) is nothing short of sublime.

I wish there was a bit more Shore about Williams when it comes to prequels, in terms of planning. But then again, for Howard it was a certain breakthrough. Williams had many decades of success already behind his belt at that point.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

For me the biggest musical crime of that trilogy is Lucas' treatment of Anakin's theme - specifically the soaring statement of it which could have led to some, you know, actual emotionally charged scenes and character resonance.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

but Duel of the Fates earlier is about as jarring as scoring gets and shouldn't be there.

I love that statement. From a story perspective it may well be copy & paste, but musically it's well integrated.

It was a one off for that 3-way duel in Phantom Menace and that's fine, but it might have been cool to work it more into the overarching trilogy narrative as a central theme.

The biggest problem is that both Battle of the Heroes and the ESB rehashes at the end of ROTS fall severely short to DOTF. Which means that the point when the prequels have finally managed to get decently dramatic is musically weaker than the entire TPM finale.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I gotta say I prefer the building motif in the first half of It Cannot Be over the fanfare at the end.

Same here. So moving.

[Quintus 5,399]

but Duel of the Fates earlier is about as jarring as scoring gets and shouldn't be there.

I love that statement. From a story perspective it may well be copy & paste, but musically it's well integrated.

Okay then, how in your view does it make narrative sense?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I didn't say it does.

[Quintus 5,399]

So what do you mean then by "well integrated"?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

...though considering a large part of the film's finale basically ended up unscored, and ROTS went in a completely different direction (and also reused tons of music during its own finale), it's hard to say whether it could have been justified. When it came out, it wasn't yet obvious that the theme wouldn't come up again and get some sort of arc.

So what do you mean then by "well integrated"?

Musically. I love the arrangement, and the musical effect of its placement. I actually didn't remember this until I listened to the score again a while ago and was surprised that, musically, it's more than simple copy & paste.

[Quintus 5,399]

In the film it's jarring and not particularly well integrated at all, it feels tracked in just because George thinks it sounds cool. But on the album it may well work nicely as music, I wouldn't know.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

So what do you mean then by "well integrated"?

The way it morphs out of the last phrase of Force Theme. It feels like a natural progression.

[Quintus 5,399]

I've never heard the cue outside of the film.

Actually that's a lie because I did buy the ost but haven't spun it for a decade.

[publicist 4,643]

The biggest problem is that both Battle of the Heroes and the ESB rehashes at the end of ROTS fall severely short to DOTF. Which means that the point when the prequels have finally managed to get decently dramatic is musically weaker than the entire TPM finale.

The BotH concert piece to me is a much tighter and less bloated piece than the overly faux-dramatic DotF (a line BotH only oversteps fleetingly). DotF in context of the innocous first movie just doesn't seem a good fit.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

To save Lee the bother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b8K7krHgek

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

The BotH concert piece to me is a much tighter and less bloated piece than the overly faux-dramatic DotF (a line BotH only oversteps fleetingly). DotF in context of the innocous first movie just doesn't seem a good fit.

BotH has a cool intro, but that's about it. It just sounds like uninspired autopilot to me, just... uninteresting.

[Incanus 5,714]

The BotH concert piece to me is a much tighter and less bloated piece than the overly faux-dramatic DotF (a line BotH only oversteps fleetingly). DotF in context of the innocous first movie just doesn't seem a good fit.

BotH has a cool intro, but that's about it. It just sounds like uninspired autopilot to me, just... uninteresting.

I am sort of in the middle with BotH. It doesn't have the purely visceral impact of DotF and I find the purely ooohhh-aaaah choral work a bit uninspired (some lyrics might have given the piece a bit of edge) but I like the drive and main melody of BotH quite a bit.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

some lyrics might have given the piece a bit of edge

Absolutely.

[KK 3,307]

I kind of always hoped there would be a larger context for this theme. Not only the Sith vs Jedi, but also to accompany Anakin's battle within (sounds grandiose, I know). Probably because of its ambiguous title and also the poem phrases Williams chose (about battle raging inside your head or something). It's disappointing they never took the theme further, tweak it and such - it always feel a bit like copy and paste.

Karol

Yes.

It was a one off for that 3-way duel in Phantom Menace and that's fine, but it might have been cool to work it more into the overarching trilogy narrative as a central theme. As it is that little cameo in AotC has "cool" copy/paste written all over it.

Sadly it was never used in a way that it would have had some kind of dramatic arc or purpose throughout the new trilogy. The piece itself would have lent itself very well for such a treatment as it had three very separate musical ideas that could have been varied through the story. E.g. the ostinato would have made fine connecting material that is recognizable and could have been used for the dramatic "larger things at work" idea for these films and not just for the duels. Ah an missed opporturnity.

Agreed completely. It's a great standalone piece, but just the way its constructed makes it perfect for the kind writing that allows it to span across the trilogy. As Karol well put, the piece could have been adapted by the way of Shore's "motivic cell" method. Duel of the Fates, moreso than Williams' other compositions for SW, is built off numerous motivic cells playing off each other, it's why I find it so much more interesting that BotH. Dispersing the five note ostinato across key moments in the story, manipulating the overarching melodic idea to hint at what is to come, even just having ominous chanting of the famed lyrics to underscore Anakin's internal struggles.

He was doing all that in TPM to an extent, but its a real shame the idea just got abandoned over the next two films.

[crocodile 8,012]

I mean, he does use Force theme a great deal in the prequels, with some amazing results, so it kind of counts as the "Destiny" theme as well. It's always there when something important happens. But it would have been nice to have some new material to make it a bit fresher. As I said, the only new theme that is consistently used is Across the Stars. Not only as the backbone of Attack of the Clones, but in Revenge of the Sith - there's more of it in there than people realise.

I've actually listened to Trent's edits of both AOTC and ROTS today. Fantastic job!

Karol

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Duel of the Fates, moreso than Williams' other compositions for SW, is built off numerous motivic cells playing off each other, it's why I find it so much more interesting that BotH.

Motive-wise, BotH is not less complex or integrated than DotF. BotH has got the ostinato, the main melody and accompanying harmony and the rhythmic trumpet motif which plays off the ostinato, and along with the whole B section in triple time. One of things that DoTF lacks is a contrasting B section - it just builds and builds, dies down, then builds to another (and very similar) climax.

[crocodile 8,012]

What is impressive about Battle of the Heroes is not what the material is, but how Williams uses it. It's quite a sequence.

What I don't like it is that for the main identity of the score (it's hit single, if you will), it doesn't have much personality.

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

Alice in Wonderland by Danny Elfman

[Romão 2,274]

What is impressive about Battle of the Heroes is not what the material is, but how Williams uses it. It's quite a sequence.

What I don't like it is that for the main identity of the score (it's hit single, if you will), it doesn't have much personality.

Karol

I agree with this view. In a way, it would be as if Clash of the Lightsabers was the sole concert suite of the Empire Strikes Back, instead of the Imperial March and Yoda's Theme

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

What is impressive about Battle of the Heroes is not what the material is, but how Williams uses it. It's quite a sequence.

What I don't like it is that for the main identity of the score (it's hit single, if you will), it doesn't have much personality.

Karol

I agree with this view. In a way, it would be as if Clash of the Lightsabers was the sole concert suite of the Empire Strikes Back, instead of the Imperial March and Yoda's Theme.

I hear you. It's a shame that ATOC and ROTS only had one concert suite each. It would've been great to have suites for Kamino, a condensed version of The Arena, along with Anakin's Betrayal, Grievous's Theme, that 'idea' in It Can't Be and finally a concert arrangement of the The Emperor's theme.

[crocodile 8,012]

You know, this cue almost plays like a concert suite for Emperor's theme. Almost.

Karo

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm just thinking it'd be an impressive thing to hear live, with all those basses.

[crocodile 8,012]

Yes!

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

You know, this cue almost plays like a concert suite for Emperor's theme. Almost.

Karo

Just that one cue slaughters 90% of his work in the PT.

I hope John can dig much deeper for JJ than he did for George round 2 fifteen years ago.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Too much Star Wars talk going on here. Stop it!

[lonzoe 18]

Anything on the new release? Is it good?

Karol

Sorry for the late response. Bottom line: I thought the EFLA score was great and a lot of fun. It isn't as bleak or grim as the EFNY score was (which I also enjoyed) b/c it's a score to a hokey movie. It also has a nice blend of synthetic and orchestral music. The synth driven tracks by Walker skillfully merges with Carpenter's overall soundscape. The heroic theme/motif she gave Snake(which can be heard in "Submarine Launch", "Hang Glider Attack", "Helicopter Arrival", "Fire Fight") is a highlight as well. IMO this is up there with some of the best sci-fi action scores in the 90s. Recommended to both Walker and Carpenter fans.

[crocodile 8,012]

Too much Star Wars talk going on here. Stop it!

Hey, at least Howard Shore has diminished his presence for the time being. Enjoy your break, dude!

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

The Book Thief by John Williams

How to Steal a Million & Bachelor Flat by John Williams

Empire of the Sun by John Williams

Checkmate & Rhythm in Motion by John Williams

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

I'm not sure how, but those 6 scores work together perfectly.

[Jonesy 55]

Far and Away by John Williams

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

The offical version, or did you combine it with the rather good boot?

[Jonesy 55]

I was listening my custom edit (OST + Bootleg).

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

I was listening my custom edit (OST + Bootleg).

[KK 3,307]

Too much Star Wars talk going on here. Stop it!

Time for a Star Wars subforum!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I don't know...I happened to make a joke about Man of Steel on a friend's post on Facebook, and then the Big Z himself responded. I felt embarassed.

Now I feel like he's always watching. I love you Hans! Please don't send your goons after me!

[crocodile 8,012]

Oh dear what did you say?

Karol

[KK 3,307]

The conversation went as follows:

Friend 1 (Main Post): -Picture of MoS Deluxe Edition- "Nobody home.. Let's just see how high I can pump the volume up "

Me: You sure that's a good idea?

Friend 1: Yes it was

Me: Oh boy. And you sure you weren't wearing earplugs?

Friend 2: Nein, nein, nein

Friend 3: Play it loud John, this score is not for the weak naysayears

Hans Zimmer: I cant hear it...Not loud enough!

It wasn't directed at me (he probably ignores any dismissals of his stuff), but still, no more composer-jokes on Facebook from me!

[crocodile 8,012]

I thought you said something like "If Hans wasn't a Hollywood composer he wouldn't be able to find decent job cleaning toilets". Or something like that.

But then again, that's more a BloodBoal thing to say.

(Peace, Hans!)

Karol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,527]

The conversation went as follows:

Friend 1 (Main Post): -Picture of MoS Deluxe Edition- "Nobody home.. Let's just see how high I can pump the volume up "

Me: You sure that's a good idea?

Friend 1: Yes it was

Me: Oh boy. And you sure you weren't wearing earplugs?

Friend 2: Nein, nein, nein

Friend 3: Play it loud John, this score is not for the weak naysayears

Hans Zimmer: I cant hear it...Not loud enough!

It wasn't directed at me (he probably ignores any dismissals of his stuff), but still, no more composer-jokes on Facebook from me!

Are you sure that it was HZ?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I thought you said something like "If Hans wasn't a Hollywood composer he wouldn't be able to find decent job cleaning toilets". Or something like that.

But then again, that's more a BloodBoal thing to say.

(Peace, Hans!)

Karol

Hey! I don't do toilet jokes!

[crocodile 8,012]

You just did this morning!

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

What? Where? When? How?

[KK 3,307]

I thought you said something like "If Hans wasn't a Hollywood composer he wouldn't be able to find decent job cleaning toilets". Or something like that.

But then again, that's more a BloodBoal thing to say.

(Peace, Hans!)

Karol

Nah. I never stooped to BloodBoal's levels when taking a punch at a composer. Let's hope it never comes to that!

The conversation went as follows:

Friend 1 (Main Post): -Picture of MoS Deluxe Edition- "Nobody home.. Let's just see how high I can pump the volume up "

Me: You sure that's a good idea?

Friend 1: Yes it was

Me: Oh boy. And you sure you weren't wearing earplugs?

Friend 2: Nein, nein, nein

Friend 3: Play it loud John, this score is not for the weak naysayears

Hans Zimmer: I cant hear it...Not loud enough!

It wasn't directed at me (he probably ignores any dismissals of his stuff), but still, no more composer-jokes on Facebook from me!

Are you sure that it was HZ?

Yes, it was him for sure.

[crocodile 8,012]

What? Where? When? How?

Here.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]