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What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)


Ollie

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I found FK underwhelming.

On the commercial release yes, the complete score on LLL has at least 20 minutes of classic Goldsmith adventure like the Princess's abduction and the HORSES & CAVES's cue that balance the more stale Holst/Mars action stuff.

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If there is one composer whose music almost always benefits for expanded release, it must be Goldsmith. There is some great architecture behind most of his works, which can be quite elusive on short albums.

Karol

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Since when composers knew best about the album arrangements in film music circles? We can find fault in the most perfect of perfect film music complete release even if it is just one wrong coloured bar in the cover graphics.

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Truth to be told, i was very lukewarm on FIRST KNIGHT's old Epic album when it came out in '95. It felt rather mechanical and the themes, especially the AFO-like main theme sounded odd in context of an Arthurian epic. After watching the movie - a pitiful sight if there ever was one - i realized that there was another half of the score delivering more of what i envisioned such a score to be: muscular, dynamic, lighthearted (all the Lancelot stuff and the variations on the ambush cue etc.).

What Goldsmith really did was streamlining his sound tailoring it to the needs of the already dawning slick blockbuster style of the coming years: gone are the busy and bustling musical figures that still were present in LIONHEART (already in diminished form), hello to hummable John-Barry-lite tunes for matters of love and americanized hero themes marching along in easily graspable meters and bombastic battle stuff modelled after the dreaded Mars-temptracks.

With stripping down his orchestrations to an absolute minimum (you can count the extravagant flourishes on one hand) he arrived at something which might look clumsy and cumbersome at the surface but years later i realized that it still was an ace JG epic score - just more economically realized (certainly hard to love for fans of JW's more ornamental efforts). If you accept that the themes are simple and the hits are too punchy, you may start to realize that there is not one wasted note in this thing. Which is kind of amazing, especially for such a genre.

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Crucify me if you want, but SW is actually a pretty good album, the Anthology disc is even better.

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With stripping down his orchestrations to an absolute minimum (you can count the extravagant flourishes on one hand) he arrived at something which might look clumsy and cumbersome at the surface but years later i realized that it still was an ace JG epic score - just more economically realized (certainly hard to love for fans of JW's more ornamental efforts). If you accept that the themes are simple and the hits are too punchy, you may start to realize that there is not one wasted note in this thing. Which is kind of amazing, especially for such a genre.

I'm not an especially big fan of it, but there is a certain quality about First Knight that makes it timeless - it would work for a 1960's epic, would be great in 1980's and and even now few people would moan about it. It's quite a rare gift, really.

Karol

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If there is one composer whose music almost always benefits for expanded release, it must be Goldsmith. There is some great architecture behind most of his works, which can be quite elusive on short albums.

Hm. Nevertheless I find that most original Goldsmith albums work well and represent the whole score without dropping significant highlights (First Knight is one of the biggest exceptions to this). Whereas I think that many Williams albums are a mess. Perhaps it's because Goldsmith was always very economic with hit spotting, both in the total amount of music he wrote and also the nature of his underscore, while Williams has always tended to write wall to wall score with self contained set pieces.

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Count me in as one of those who enjoyed LLLR expanded First Knight. It brings a lot to whatever was lacking in the film too. It has it's fair share of themes (King Arthur, Lancelot, Guinevere, Malagant , I think even the settings Camelot and Leonesse even have one as well). It's a fun 90s swashbuckling adventure score, which never loses it's appeal after repeated listens, imo. Probably one of my favorites from Goldsmith in the 90s.

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The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring - Howard Shore

Love Viggo's "Song of Luthien"

Of all the score you picked Viggo's crooning and weak performance as the one to get the honorary mention. ;)

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Meh. Best music of the trilogy will always be "Flaming Red Hair". Shore's material doesn't even come close to that.

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Meh. Best music of the trilogy will always be "Flaming Red Hair". Shore's material doesn't even come close to that.

Yeah shivers down my spine every time I listen to that song. A classic.

Creation by Christopher Young

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Towering Inferno. A couple of favourite moments one being the final few moments of "Trapped Lovers" as Wagner makes his suicidal run as well as the end of "Planting the Charges" accompanying the zoom-in on the actors' faces including McQueen's "I've had enough of this" expression.

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It's a rip-off of Rosza's Spellbound .

I heard a suite of Spellbound the other day, can you show which cue you mean?

I mean the main phrase of the theme. Dom -Du-Du - Doooom. The difference is that the Cliffhanger theme doesn't really go anywhere beyond that 4 note phrase, it just meanders.

No it doesn't, it develops into a fully fleshed out theme for the movie and is well suited to the mountainous setting. As I said: I had a good listen of Rosza's Spellbound music (mostly the main theme) last week, and frankly (though NOT surprisingly) to say your off-handed comparison is clutching at straws - both stylistically and thematically - would be a bit of an overstatement to say the least. But that's just you, isn't it.

There's the opening four notes and that's literally ALL THERE IS. Beyond that the two pieces couldn't be further apart - especially on an aesthetic and musical storytelling level. A "rip-off of Rosza's Spellbound" you say? Bullshit. It's like comparing E.T. to Les Baxter's 'Joy' and calling the Williams score a "rip-off" of that album. I'm laughing you off for that reason.

You know what Promo? The more I get to know your contributions here over the weeks and months; the more I think you're a bullshit artist. A total phoney.

Time to skip you methinks. Sussed out and can't be trusted.

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Look, I just don't like Trevor Jones's theme for Cliffhanger. It rubs me the wrong way. Sure, maybe the Spellbound connection was clutching at straws and an attempt to intellectualise an emotional reaction (like you've never done that?). Over all, I think the score is ridden with arch cliché after cliché , and sounds incredibly plodding and dated for 1993. I can't help watching it thinking what Goldsmith or even Kamen might've done.

I like Jones, but more for his fantasy and drama scores (Angelheart, Missisipi Burning, Sea of Love, Runaway Train, The Dark Crystal, Nate and Hayes) . I don't think action music is up his street. At least it doesn't seem to come naturally.

PS. What else have I said lately that's phoney (discounting the Jeremy Soule/Hook stuff, obviously)?

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Look, I just don't like Trevor Jones's theme for Cliffhanger. It rubs me the wrong way. Sure, maybe the Spellbound connection was clutching at straws and an attempt to intellectualise an emotional reaction (like you've never done that?). Over all, I think the score is ridden with arch cliché after cliché , and sounds incredibly plodding and dated for 1993. I can't help watching it thinking what Goldsmith or even Kamen might've done.

I like Jones, but more for his fantasy and drama scores (Angelheart, Missisipi Burning, Sea of Love, Runaway Train, The Dark Crystal, Nate and Hayes) . I don't think action music is up his street. At least it doesn't seem to come naturally.

PS. What else have I said lately that's phoney (discounting the Jeremy Soule/Hook stuff, obviously)?

This quoted post is an admission of guilt. The difficulty is that I agree with many of your statements regarding Cliffhanger in your above post, but cannot take you seriously because of the way you, imo, undermine your more perfectly reasonable claims with that oh so typical flippant and reactionary style in which you (pretend) to court a challenge. It's all a big show, a bluff.

You knew the Cliffhanger theme bared insignificant resemblance to Spellbound, but you rolled with it anyway. You're flagrant for the sake of it, which is fairly easy to rummage out in these close knit circles, so why not just knock it off and talk normally about music you like (and dislike) without the pointless ego serving posturing and time wasting maneuvering. Stop trying to impress people all of the time!

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You knew the Cliffhanger theme bared insignificant resemblance to Spellbound, but you rolled with it anyway. You're flagrant for the sake of it, which is fairly easy to rummage out in these close knit circles, so why not just knock it off and talk normally about music you like (and dislike) without the pointless ego serving posturing and time wasting maneuvering. Stop trying to impress people all of the time!

That's part of a persona I've developed on other forums, a sort of agent provocateur. It's not really me, but people expect it, and they're in on the joke.

Cast your mind about a few weeks ago when you wrote this.

Shame though, [sharky] hadn't chimed in with a random "risible capitalist drivel" type remark for a while when dipping into a chat about something like It's a Wonderful Life. Those little gems always make me chuckle at him.

I thought that's what you want?

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Cast your mind about a few weeks ago when you wrote this.

Shame though, [sharky] hadn't chimed in with a random "risible capitalist drivel" type remark for a while when dipping into a chat about something like It's a Wonderful Life. Those little gems always make me chuckle at him.

I thought that's what you want?

What I want? I was being facetious. Wry.

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:music: Red Canvas by James Peterson

Karol

Derivative love letter to other composers. O tempora o mores!

It is actually very nice. :)

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Cast your mind about a few weeks ago when you wrote this.

Shame though, [sharky] hadn't chimed in with a random "risible capitalist drivel" type remark for a while when dipping into a chat about something like It's a Wonderful Life. Those little gems always make me chuckle at him.

I thought that's what you want?

What I want? I was being facetious. Wry.

British humour doesn't always translate well on the internet, as I've learned first.

Anyway, I'll give the people want they want, like when chuckster decided to cut out the gif spamfests.

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:music: Red Canvas by James Peterson

Karol

Derivative love letter to other composers. O tempora o mores!

It is actually very nice. :)

I keep hearing a sort of action version of Ben Hur

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Why don't you just be yourself?

Sure I'm a twat a lot of the time, but I ain't ever a bullshitter! Folk appreciate that.

Be yourself? There's no fun in that!

Hooper drives the boat, CHIEF.

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:music: Red Canvas by James Peterson

 

 

Karol

Derivative love letter to other composers. O tempora o mores!

 

 

 

 

It is actually very nice. :)

 

 

I keep hearing a sort of action version of Ben Hur

 

:music: Red Canvas by James Peterson

 

 

Karol

Derivative love letter to other composers. O tempora o mores!

 

 

 

 

It is actually very nice. :)

 

 

I keep hearing a sort of action version of Ben Hur

That's exactly what it is. :)

Karol

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Yeah. The Moving Images Suite that is featured on the album has some obvious allusions to different genres and composers as well. I guess it works like a show reel of what Peterson can do.

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Yeah, it's a very nice album overall. I'm not so sure I like the performance so much, but it's a minor quibble.

The Matrix (Deluxe Edition) and both La-La Land sequel releases - The Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions. What an onslaught! That last one is gracing my ears pretty much every day (in bigger or smaller doses) - ever since the album arrived through my letterbox. I even wrote a not-so-brief and not-so-modest review for Charlie Brigden's Entr'acte website, if you fancy reading some more detailed thoughts on it. ;)

Karol

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