Potterdom Film/Score Series Thread

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

 

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Out of pure boredom I'm watching the HP1 bonus features. Steve Kloves claims adapting the book was the most challenging thing he's ever done. Why would he say that? HP1 seems like a story anyone could adapt. Not to discredit him, but it's all really straightforward.

[mrbellamy 6,270]

The basic structure's the same but I guess there's a lot of shorthand that he must have had to figure out in terms of introducing all the characters, getting all the essentials of the world, the mystery and backstories across in short movie scenes. Things she'd describe in the narration that had to be put in dialogue and stuff. Probably just like all the homework of going through the book and deciding everything that was relevant to keep. I can't think of any examples but I feel like there are a lot of lines and pieces of information that are scattered elsewhere in the movie than in the book, because like if you take out one scene but you need a piece of information in there then you have to figure out where that bit goes. And there are invented scenes in the movie that are combinations of multiple unrelated scenes in the book, put in a different setting etc so even though it looks obvious because it does all come straight out of the book he still had to figure out how to create those. That'd be my imagination of the process.

[oierem 151]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Out of pure boredom I'm watching the HP1 bonus features. Steve Kloves claims adapting the book was the most challenging thing he's ever done. Why would he say that? HP1 seems like a story anyone could adapt. Not to discredit him, but it's all really straightforward.

He compared the first two books, saying that HP1 was harded to adapt because it was very episodic, and the actual plot doesn't start until the second half of the book. 

[Chen G. 3,941]

12 minutes ago, oierem said:

HP1 was harded to adapt because it was very episodic, and the actual plot doesn't start until the second half of the book. 

 

Which is just about what happens in the movie. It doesn't have much of a plot to speak of until very late in the game. It gets by using the novelty of introducing the magical world to the audience, but its still a bit much for me.

 

Kloves didn't really adapt the book, though. He just made an abridged version of the novel, formatted as a screenplay. The issue with adapting novels to film goes far deeper than books being too long for films to fully accomodate them, and therefore just abridging the book isn't really enough.

[Alex 2,833]

The first three chapters of HP1 are basically JK Rowling making sure everyone knows that the Dursleys = bad.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Adapting a 70,000 word novel into a 160 minute movie with a light plot? Dear god somebody get me this writing gig.

 

I have written screenplays recreationally and some that I hope will be produced some day and they are rather tricky and difficult to write. But by far, BY FAR, the biggest challenge is keeping the page count down and cutting and cutting and cutting.

 

160 mins for such a short novel is an outrageous luxury and honest to god almost anyone could do it.

 

HP1 coasts by purely on the strength of its world building and elaborate production (and score). The screenplay is not something that stands out.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

But HP1 and 2 didn't need adapting at all... It's from 3 onwards it got difficult.

[Arpy 4,145]

@Chen G. It was an adaptation, not your semantic bullshittery. Way to downplay the job!

[Chen G. 3,941]

Hey, I like the movie. But I don't think the script does it any favours. Not in terms of how long it takes to plot to pick up, and not in terms of quite how the magical world is revealed.

 

That little prologue with Dumbeldore (which is only there because the script is just an abridged version of the book) diminishes the surprise of discovering the Wizarding World with Harry.

 

Starting with the Dursleys and portraying them as more of a normal family, making Harry's disappearing glass trick more ambigious, etcetra - would have made the fantasy all the more wonderous. Kloves and Columbus should have followed William Wyler's advice: "If you want to shock an audience, get them almost to the point of boredom before doing so."

[mstrox 6,637]

Imagine going into Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s/Sorcerer’s Stone and discovering half an hour in that the movie is actually about WIZARDS(!?)

[Edmilson 7,369]

The fact that the movie is 150 minutes long always made me laugh. It's funny that they authorized such a long movie made for children, when the majority of kids flicks isn't much longer than 95 minutes. 

 

And even despite the film had the tremendous job of keeping a child's attention for 2 and a half hours, it was entirely successful.

[Chen G. 3,941]

I still think there was room to tighten the thing slightly; which is to say nothing of its even longer sequel.

[Richard Penna 3,664]

Potter should have been done as a TV miniseries - say 6 hours. That's enough time to allow for lots of sub-plot, and works with the episodic nature of the story.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

I still think there was room to tighten the thing slightly; which is to say nothing of its even longer sequel.

 

Yet COS feels shorter.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Its certainly ups the pace, but not to the degree that's I'm expecting a second chapter to do.

[gkgyver 1,645]

16 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Potter should have been done as a TV miniseries - say 6 hours. That's enough time to allow for lots of sub-plot, and works with the episodic nature of the story.

 

So, to do justice to the material, your solution is to give it 1/3 the time of the movie series. 

[Richard Penna 3,664]

No, one series per book.

[mstrox 6,637]

We've watched the first three HPs with my kid over the past few months (I think this is where we stop until she's older, since death/violence really picks up going forward) but she's been a fan.  My spouse is a big HP person.

 

For me. the first two Potters aren't good, IMO, and mainly for their stubborn adherence to the books.  Once the third movie came around, the movies started to get uniformly good.  Great production design and casting in the first two, though - the whole series would have failed without that groundwork.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

I'm always interested when people say films 1 and 2 could have been shorter because every time I try and think of stuff they could have taken out, I can't come up with anything.

[Chen G. 3,941]

The first film shouldn't have been shorter so much it should have been structured differently: get rid (or heavily alter) the prologue with Dumbeldore, make more of the normalcy in the Dursley's house, and introduce the central conflict about ten minutes earlier than when it does now.

 

The second film I definitely would have cut down a size.

[Smeltington 1,436]

The first film should have been longer, so John Williams could have written even more music for it.

 

The second film should have been shorter, since John Williams didn't write enough music for it.

[Edmilson 7,369]

20 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

The second film should have been shorter, since John Williams didn't write enough music for it.

 

But still COS offered plenty of material for William Ross to score 

[gkgyver 1,645]

18 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Adapting a 70,000 word novel into a 160 minute movie with a light plot? Dear god somebody get me this writing gig.

 

I have written screenplays recreationally and some that I hope will be produced some day and they are rather tricky and difficult to write. But by far, BY FAR, the biggest challenge is keeping the page count down and cutting and cutting and cutting.

 

160 mins for such a short novel is an outrageous luxury and honest to god almost anyone could do it.

 

HP1 coasts by purely on the strength of its world building and elaborate production (and score). The screenplay is not something that stands out.

 

I wouldn't put too much weight on stuff like that said on DVD extras, clearly meant to hype the book. 

[bollemanneke 3,334]

HP2 bonus features now. God, half of the adults they interview are dead already.

[Smeltington 1,436]

4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

 

But still COS offered plenty of material for William Ross to score 

 

True, he needed a leg up, so let's not begrudge him, shall we?

[bollemanneke 3,334]

HP3 bonus features. JKR claims Alfonso put things in the movie that would appear in the last two books. What things?

[mstrox 6,637]

Werewolves and Dumbledore

[Jay 37,264]

10 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

HP3 bonus features. JKR claims Alfonso put things in the movie that would appear in the last two books. What things?

 

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/585211/harry-potter-and-prisoner-azkaban-movie-spoiled-future-storylines

 

https://www.beyondhogwarts.com/harry-potter/articles/foreshadowings-in-prisoner-of-azkaban.html

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Ooh, thanks!

 

EDIT: I find most of these examples really far-fetched. Sirius and Lupin did not turn out to be more than friends and Lupin implying that Harry will one day sacrifice himself, like his parents did for him, is even more implausible. The only example I can agree with is Draco being a coward.

[Holko 9,491]

Yeah. One I could maybe think of is Snape shielding the kids from the werewolf instantly. In the book he's just knocked out, then acts very angry, impulsive and immature afterwards. Though in 1 he already protected Harry from Quirrel in the Quidditch match, even more so in the book.

[mrbellamy 6,270]

I think Harry/Lupin on the bridge must have really been what she was referring to mostly, I think the emphasis on Lily's eyes in the film is heavier than in the book and maybe she just felt like they really caught onto that. Sirius doesn't have that moment with Harry at the end in the book either, for example, your loved ones never leaving you. That stuff exists in the earlier books but maybe Cuaron had some influence on beefing it up and she thought they were capturing what she was going to hit at the end.

 

There's also the moment not in the book where Harry talks about a memory of his parents that he doesn't know if it's real, where they're just talking to him. And people have felt there's a parallel there with the flashback in Deathly Hallows when Voldemort arrives and sees them playing with Harry. Maybe she had written that or conceived it already without telling Cuaron/Kloves.

 

Also the line where Fred/George say to Ron "What'd you expect, he fell over 100 feet. Let's walk you off the Astronomy Tower and see what you'd like" but that's more of a throwaway.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Now that makes more sense! God, re-watching that stuff and especially hearing JW's music scattered all over the features really makes me feel nostalgic.

[Holko 9,491]

3 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

There's also the moment not in the book where Harry talks about a memory of his parents that he doesn't know if it's real, where they're just talking to him. And people have felt there's a parallel there with the flashback in Deathly Hallows when Voldemort arrives and sees them playing with Harry. Maybe she had written that or conceived it already without telling Cuaron/Kloves.

Hmm I also thought of that, but not quite so literally. In the book his "best memory" at that moment is finding out he's a wizard and would leave the Dursleys, while the movie in general shifts heavily towards the parents. I could even say this change "spoils" the ending revelation with the patronus being James's stag form, Harry drawing on their memory to chase the dementors away... but the movie glances over that explanation and the animagus and Marauder stuff so this is no problem.

[mrbellamy 6,270]

Another way to look at it, yeah. I do think it was just the stuff about James and Lily and that the film was throwing a little more into that which she was pleased with.

 

I love how people ran that quote into the ground for the next three years, though, and kept coming up with stuff. My favorite theory was that Hermione was a werewolf because she howled and WereLupin responded, and they "only respond to their own kind"

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Or it was a throwaway quote Rowling said in the moment and when asked to clarify it, she will totally invent something, pull something out of her ass and then pass it off as her original meeting.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

HP4 bonus features. Such a great DVD. 90% of the documentaries is scored by HP1-3 music, you'd think Doyle never wrote anything, not cool. This is where I'll stop watching. 5-8 aren't worth the time.

[Chen G. 3,941]

49 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

This is where I'll stop watching. 5-8 aren't worth the time.

 

Rubbish.

 

The Half-Blood Prince and especially Order of the Phoenix are terrific films.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

I have no interest in David Yates' depressing voice again. These movies stopped being fun the moment he came in.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Movies aren't all about fun.

 

There's poignancy to be had in things like the climax of The Order of the Phoenix. That's much more meaningful than shallow, jouvenile "fun."

[mstrox 6,637]

It’s true, one thing Madagascar has over Schindler’s List is that all the characters in Madagascar do a big danceable song at the end.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

The climax of Goblet of Fire was also harrowing, but it was still fun because I was invested, I cared.

 

Hey, this is interesting, I'm watching Creating the World of Harry Potter Part 1 and they have a scene with Radcliffe pounding on his cupboard door shouting 'don't burn my letter!' Hard to imagine JW's cue working in that scene.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

4 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

HP4 bonus features. Such a great DVD. 90% of the documentaries is scored by HP1-3 music, you'd think Doyle never wrote anything, not cool. 

Agreed

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Ooh, awesome! All 16 DVDs just fell out of their cases. It just became Harry Potter and the Sweaty Quest of the Discs.

[TSMefford 1,509]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Rubbish.

 

The Half-Blood Prince and especially Order of the Phoenix are terrific films.

 

Agreed on Half-Blood Prince, not so much on Order of the Phoenix, but if I'm doing a marathon, I'd gladly sit through it to get to Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows Part 1, and if I get that far I might as well watch the mediocre Deathly Hallows Part 2.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Order of the Phoenix is my favourite Potter. If it were up to me, it would have been edited quite differently, but when it comes down to it, I don't think there's a better encapsulation of the themes of this series then Harry's conversation with Sirius and the subsequent climax of the film.

 

[Datameister 2,034]

SS is pure nostalgia for me. It ain't high art. I dig it.

 

COS is a turd. What a letdown. The great shots of the castle somewhat make up for it.

 

POA features the most interesting artistic choices, and they're only somewhat hampered by a few really bad ones.

 

GOF...overwrought turd, especially compared to the excellent source material. It's got its moments, though, I suppose.

 

The things that initially irritated me about OOTP and HBP have faded a bit, and the sense of humor has grown on me a lot, especially in HBP. The characters feel most like real teens in that one. If only they'd shot the film in color. 😉

 

DH1 caught me off-guard with how strong it was - easily the most consistently strong of all the films. I disagreed with some of the choices in DH2 once they return to Hogwarts, but I think it's still quite good.

 

Overall, most of the appeal of the films still lies in the scores (mainly SS and POA) and production design for me.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I can't enjoy films with terrible scores. 

The book is masterful. 

The film feels like an obligatory entry to bridge 4 and 6.

[Chen G. 3,941]

4 minutes ago, Datameister said:

in HBP. The characters feel most like real teens in that one. If only they'd shot the film in color

 

Yeah, it way too agressively-graded.

 

Honestly, so is much of The Goblet of Fire.

[Edmilson 7,369]

Of all the Yates-directed Potters, I think my favorite is Deathly Hallows 1. It's the most consistent of the franchise, and also one of the darkest - even DH2 has some humour.