Jump to content

Potterdom Film/Score Series Thread


John Crichton

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah, it way too agressively-graded.

 

Oh here we go again. :sarcasm:

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Order of the Phoenix is my favourite Potter. If it were up to me, it would have been edited quite differently, but when it comes down to it, I don't think there's a better encapsulation of the themes of this series then Harry's conversation with Sirius and the subsequent climax of the film.

 

 

I'm glad you can see all that in it. I just don't. I won't lie that the content and ideas present in the source material is great. The execution falls flat for me and I don't quite know why. The script is not great for me, even the actors seem to struggle with what they're given, the cinematography is pretty bland too, certainly a step down from Goblet and the far superior Half-Blood Prince for me. It certainly feels like it was created by a group of people from TV, which makes the subsequent films even more surprising for me. Half-Blood Prince, especially on a technical standards soars compared to 5 for me.

 

But what do I know? I think Half-Blood Prince is graded just fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Alex It sucks the magic out of the Wheezes scene for sure, but I think the exterior shots of the shop in the alley are more than satisfactory at illustrating how much the Wizarding World had faded after the return of Voldemort. Whilst I don't like how grimy some of the shots are in HBP, I can forgive that scene for the fact that it almost captures the feeling (in real life) of even cheerful moments not being bright enough to break through the darkness. 

 

If you want to see some awful, or rather, mishandled color grading, watch Solo which is so murky it's like there wasn't any light at all.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Alex It sucks the magic out of the Wheezes scene for sure, but I think the exterior shots of the shop in the alley are more than satisfactory at illustrating how much the Wizarding World had faded after the return of Voldemort. Whilst I don't like how grimy some of the shots are in HBP, I can forgive that scene for the fact that it almost captures the feeling (in real life) of even cheerful moments not being bright enough to break through the darkness. 

 

If you want to see some awful, or rather, mishandled color grading, watch Solo which is so murky it's like there wasn't any light at all.  

 

Lol. I disagree on what others are saying on Half-Blood Prince (I view it similar to how you view it), but I also disagree about Solo.

 

Honestly for me, my eyes adjust to both those films and they wind up not being as dark or murky once my eyes adjust.

 

There's a clear purpose and intent behind the color grading for Half-Blood Prince. I can't say that for Solo for sure, but I do know that for HP6. I think the lesson here is that just because you don't like it doesn't make it objectively bad. It's art. Not every film or scene needs to be super colorful and wondrous and fun.

 

Just like how don't particularly like Order of the Phoenix, but others clearly do. They see something in it that I don't.

 

As far as Solo. Personally, I am tired of overly sanitized films where you can see every little detail, especially when it's unrealistic for it to be so. If it's dark in a room, let it be dark. Honestly I find it rather silly when I watch films and the characters are in a dark environment and you can see literally everything. I get over it pretty quickly, especially if it's a good film, but I see nothing wrong with letting darkness be represented by actual darkness. Especially with such high dynamic range these days and when it was graded and meant to be viewed in a dark theater, the eyes adjust pretty quickly. I was shocked after having come out of Solo and hearing complaints that it was too visually dark. I saw everything I needed to see perfectly fine, but again. It's art.

 

Just because I like it doesn't mean you have to.

 

I'm sure many of you prefer the on-set colors present in many of the films stills:

harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-l

harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-l

harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-l

 

But to me, the color of those doesn't really say anything and looks utterly average. They all really look like a film set. Whereas the current grading looks like an organic world. I'm sure they could've met in the middle, but meh. I like what we have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys it's all down to Bruno Delbonnel. He's one of the greatest cinematographers in the world. He has 5 oscar nominations.

 

For what it's worth, I thought the cinematography in HP6 was very refined and very stately. Almost at odds with the film itself.

 

Watch his other films. You will realize that is Delbonnel's house style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Alex said:

C9D799C1-F3A9-4148-AF2D-2AD64EA7E078.jpeg
 

B47D1149-3ED5-41EC-BE5F-49146E69A29B.jpeg

 

The grading just sucks a lot of the wonder and fun out of Weasley Wizard Wheezes IMO.

 

I think that some of you are imagining that there are bright vibrant colors hiding in all of these scenes that the grading is removing almost entirely. I'd argue thats not really the case.

 

Particularly in the two shots you linked, especially in the top one. Could the hills have been greener? Maybe, but it's a very cloudy day, so they won't be very green by default, but also Slughorn and Hagrid are both covered in Earthy tones. Harry has an Earthy toned jacket and a little blue on his button down, plus the maroon shirt, but again, under the weather conditions, the color would already be reduced anyway. Plus, it's a funeral scene for crying out loud. You're not missing much, especially in that first shot.

 

Wizard Wheezes, you've got the bright vibrant blue on the statue (or whatever you want to call it) in the back there. There's some vibrant reds in the back on the stack of boxes. You've got the red and yellow hat looking things on the wall there, but costume wise the twins are also wearing Earth tones. Harry is wearing a gray coat. There's nothing vibrant or fun you're particularly missing out on with the characters, which are more the focus of this particular shot. Most of your background you're missing out on isn't even remotely the focus of that shot, quite a bit of the more vibrant parts in the far back there are being washed out by the stream of light, not the color grading. Now let's look at these where the environment is far more part of the shot.

 

FredGeorgeWeasley_WB_F6_FredGeorgeAtWeas

fred-and-george-at-weasleys-wizard-wheez

 

Particularly between these two shots, the change really isn't that extreme. Is it a bit more dull and subdued? Yeah, but the color is clearly still there relative to the change. Even the women with the multicolored costume still pretty much maintains her colors in this shot:

vlcsnap-00014.jpg

 

But it's not like the large wooden shelving off to the left is a deep vibrant red...it's brown. The ceilings are good ole eggshell white. The only thing I think does get a touch lost in translation is the dark purple painted banisters.

 

Plus, we're conveniently ignoring these shots from the scene, which feature some very vibrant colors. The love potion display is certainly intended to be the most vibrant thing in the shop.

vlcsnap-00015.jpg

vlcsnap-00016.jpg

vlcsnap-00017.jpg

 

The colors are certainly there and still coming through for me, but I also think there was a very intentional push in the production design towards more Earth tones and getting some of what is being called a "murky" look in the sets and the costumes before they shot anything. Wizard Wheezes is still the most vibrant scene in the film because it's supposed to be. 

 

But if you're missing those nice green grasses from the funeral scene...they are here in the Quidditch Tryouts vs the Funeral scene:

vlcsnap-00019.jpg

vlcsnap-00020.jpg

 

Now all this being said. I certainly still see the colors in this film, when they are supposed to be there originally. But like I said, not everyone does and that's fine. And even if you could concede that the colors are there I'd imagine that it's still too dark and murky for most who already don't like it. That's also fine.

 

Note: Something to take into account is that all these images are being displayed (most likely) on a bright white background here on the forum. That tricks human eyes into making them look darker than they actually are and can even give the illusion of less detail. When viewed in a dark theater or on a TV Screen, the images will brighten up and more details will be visible by default. Human eyes are easily tricked when under not so ideal conditions.

 

But that's my feeble attempt at defending the look of the film. Ultimately, I like it. Most don't. The end. Lol.

 

But the main point is that dislike does not mean that it's objectively poorly done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The worst book is definitely 5. She didn't quite know what she was doing there it felt like.

 

6 is in some ways essentially padding. Just setting up some pieces and giving backstory. Does not materially advance the story in any way. 

 

6 has the least amount of plot to work with - even less than the first. So I think she did reasonably well with what little she had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my last reread I breezed through 5 and enjoyed it. Chamber of Secrets OTOH was so tedious and clunky that I almost just gave up. Chekov's nuclear space missile platforms planted just below the surface then left there for the whole thing, everyone conveniently overlooks solutions to problems and just leaves petrified students gathering dust for a year (nobody else on the planet has ripe mandrakes?) or someone messing up every spell endangering everyone (seriously, you have practice brooms but no spare wands?). And that death day party thing. And Harry and Ron going to the teacher's room to tell everyone about the Chamber... but then not doing it. And everything else. Just a pile of paper thin contrivances and conveniences with barely any fluff to disguise them or make them more palatable.

 

 

6 is a return to the breezier lighter and more fun atmosphere of the first 3 to provide relief for the characters and the reader after the much more heavy 5th (Harry even suspects Malfoy again and everything), providing better contrast for the dark ending, while also going deeper into Voldemort than ever before to set up 7. So why the hell did movie 6 throw 90% of that latter out the window, and focus on the former by representing it with insufferable cringy garbage? And why is Yates' direction and blocking so stilted and lifeless? And why did somebody suddenly smear their poopoo on the lenses? I think I've only seen this thing once, and not planning to ever suffer through it again. Marathons can go to hell, this movie franchise is a giant failure as far as I'm concerned because of 4-8. (OK, maybe 5-8, 4 can be fun on some days just based on how insanely dumb and over the top it is and didn't necessarily mess up or leave out anything too crucial that the latter ones need, and not that 1 and 2 are great but they weren't the ones to sink it). A book reread marathon will always be infinitely more pleasant and satisfying to me. Even with CoS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fourth book is my least favorite, and of the six later/better movies, it's my least favorite of those.  The whole Triwizard tournament and mysteries surrounding it were fairly boring.  The interesting stuff is all in the margins, until the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, TSMefford said:

Lol. Welp. I once again have a dissenting opinion on Potter. I'm shocked.


To be fair, I think the only commonly shared HP opinion here is that JW should have scored them all haha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think I read the books past Azkaban, so I don't remember much of reading the earlier ones, either. So I'm judging all of these films purely cinematically. I don't care what they dispensed with, all I know is what I've got, and I like it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alex said:


To be fair, I think the only commonly shared HP opinion here is that JW should have scored them all haha

 

True.

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

So I'm judging all of these films purely cinematically. I don't care what they dispensed with, all I know is what I've got, and I like it.

 

Honestly same. It's been quite some time since I've read the books and even back when I had the books fresh...the films really need to be viewed as their own separate things. As especially the later ones get...more questionable in their adaptations and don't really compare. I also like what we've got.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems I've (re)opened a can of worms with my mention of the HBP color grading...whoops. :lol:

 

I tend to favor pretty naturalistic color rendition in most films. I can't offer any objective reason why that's "better" or anything; just personal preference. In the case of HBP specifically, it's actually a fairly lighthearted installment, considering how dark the world has gotten by that point. That puts the tone of the film somewhat at odds with the dreary grading. A lot of the film ends up looking like it's yet another Pensieve memory. (Incidentally, I think those scenes are perfectly graded; there, the dull coloration serves a purpose I can get behind.)

 

Again, purely personal preference, and I'm sure y'all have debated this ad nauseum before. Sorry for dredging it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I don't think I read the books past Azkaban, so I don't remember much of reading the earlier ones, either. So I'm judging all of these films purely cinematically. I don't care what they dispensed with, all I know is what I've got, and I like it.

That's a shame as I think you might find OotP is a much heartier read, managing to merge the school-life drama with the more serious elements of Voldemort's return and the Order. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Datameister said:

It seems I've (re)opened a can of worms with my mention of the HBP color grading...whoops. :lol:

 

I tend to favor pretty naturalistic color rendition in most films. I can't offer any objective reason why that's "better" or anything; just personal preference. In the case of HBP specifically, it's actually a fairly lighthearted installment, considering how dark the world has gotten by that point. That puts the tone of the film somewhat at odds with the dreary grading. A lot of the film ends up looking like it's yet another Pensieve memory. (Incidentally, I think those scenes are perfectly graded; there, the dull coloration serves a purpose I can get behind.)

 

Again, purely personal preference, and I'm sure y'all have debated this ad nauseum before. Sorry for dredging it up.

 

Lol you're fine. It's usually just me and like two other members against everyone else so it always ends up about the same.

 

I'd argue that the "at odds" you describe is exactly the point. This was brought up earlier in the thread:

15 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Alex Whilst I don't like how grimy some of the shots are in HBP, I can forgive that scene for the fact that it almost captures the feeling (in real life) of even cheerful moments not being bright enough to break through the darkness. 

 

I'll just leave it at that. That's roughly my interpretation as well. You're right, we've been through this before. I like it. Most hate it. It's fine. Lol. No harm done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching the music documentary now. Hearing David Yates say that music is the soul of the film is totally surreal. Later JW lists some of the HP1 themes and we hear totally inappropriate music accompanying his words. Should I laugh or cry?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Datameister said:

I see your point; whenever I next watch the film, I'll try to view it through that lens and see how it feels. (I should also say that I think HBP is strong in terms of cinematography.)

 

Feel free, but there's no reason to go out of your way to change your view or anything. That's just how I've always seen it. I think most actually agree that Half-Blood Prince is one of the strongest when it comes to lighting and shot composition, but most complain that it is hampered by the murky grading. I think the whole film is utterly breathtaking when it comes to the visual aspect. The artist and paintings that Bruno Delbonnel discusses being inspired by for the film are right within my wheelhouse and always the kind of paintings I gravitate towards when I visit museums. 

 

I should mention that I also love vibrant and lush paintings as well (also referring to grading here) but one can like both but prefer one over the other given contexts. Personally, despite all the fun in the film, I think it would've been inappropriate to continue the bright and lush color palettes present in the earlier films given the darkness right before the film and the darkness in the later half and continuing onward. Just because the characters have found some temporary beacons of light doesn't mean the world is suddenly a brighter place. Plus I tend to prefer the more organic lighting the series shifted towards after 1 and 2, 3 is a mix of both, but 4 onward all have pretty "organic" lighting. What I mean by that is that most of the time, the light has an obvious source of some kind, be it street lights, daylight, moonlight, source lights, etc. 1 and 2 are more theatrically lit, where the lighting doesn't always make sense, but everything is lit beautifully. For example, when Harry, Ron, and Lockhart go deep underground in Chamber of Secrets...where on Earth is all that light coming from? It does tend to feel more like the scene is lit and you're on a set vs you just being in a world, for me, but that's just me. Doesn't mean it's not beautifully lit or anything though.

 

All that being said, I can and do still enjoy vibrant and colorful color grading as well as the more theatrical lighting vs the organic lighting. Just depends on the film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TSMefford said:

That's just how I've always seen it. I think most actually agree that Half-Blood Prince is one of the strongest when it comes to lighting and shot composition

 

Agreed. I may find the grading overdone, but it has the best framing of all the films. Great performances (I love Jim Broadbent in this!), too.

 

Very good movie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Agreed. I may find the grading overdone, but it has the best framing of all the films. Great performances (I love Jim Broadbent in this!), too.

 

Very good movie.

 

Oh yeah definitely! This is also one of the couple of the films that I feel actually captures the feeling and spirit of the books I felt as I read them too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really? HBP felt like I was reading a Disney cartoon. There was a fair bit of shit in that book that was wisely omitted from the movie. Still didn't make the movie any good, but it could have been worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said:

Really? HBP felt like I was reading a Disney cartoon. There was a fair bit of shit in that book that was wisely omitted from the movie. Still didn't make the movie any good, but it could have been worse.

 

I haven't seen such dark Disney cartoons.

 

That 'fair bit of shit' was nothing big, OH WAIT, it was just Voldemort's relevance to the story, the story behind the Horcruxes and the relevance of Snape to both Harry and Voldemort. All these brilliant and juicy details missing from the film. This was probably due to the pacing of the film and how it all could be crammed into the already lengthy runtime.

6 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

Oh yeah definitely! This is also one of the couple of the films that I feel actually captures the feeling and spirit of the books I felt as I read them too.

Yes, as an adaptation I think it's the closest to the books in the sense that the tone and detail wasn't wholly altered (excepting the details mentioned above. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Arpy said:

 

I haven't seen such dark Disney cartoons.

 

That 'fair bit of shit' was nothing big, OH WAIT, it was just Voldemort's relevance to the story, the story behind the Horcruxes and the relevance of Snape to both Harry and Voldemort. All these brilliant and juicy details missing from the film. This was probably due to the pacing of the film and how it all could be crammed into the already lengthy runtime.

 

It was still a good ASMR book I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Arpy said:

Voldemort's relevance to the story, the story behind the Horcruxes and the relevance of Snape to both Harry and Voldemort. All these brilliant and juicy details missing from the film. This was probably due to the pacing of the film and how it all could be crammed into the already lengthy runtime.

 

I'll admit that I do miss having this stuff in the film, but as I mentioned earlier...at the point that I saw Order of the Phoenix I had to start considering the films their own story and just being inspired by the books. Half-Blood Prince (the film) delves a bit into Voldemorts past, but mostly focuses on the discovery of Horcruxes. I feel like they give far less information and create a more of a struggle for to beat in the films, which is...a way to do it. It works fine in the film world. After Order of the Phoenix the only adaptation points I really consider is how it feels and if they captured the spirit of the books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 8/15/2020 at 2:04 PM, bollemanneke said:

Watching the music documentary now. Hearing David Yates say that music is the soul of the film is totally surreal. Later JW lists some of the HP1 themes and we hear totally inappropriate music accompanying his words. Should I laugh or cry?

The fact that they didn't even get one of the themes right is frankly bewildering. And lazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Harry Potter series, I came to realize, was two movies too long. And that doesn't include Deathly Hallows part 2.

The series has a nice arc from movie 1 through to movie 4.

After that, 5 and 6 feel just like unnecessarily stretched out filler because Rowling had to get her shit in. 

6th movie should have been the end at the latest. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, gkgyver said:

The series has a nice arc from movie 1 through to movie 4.

After that, 5 and 6 feel just like unnecessarily stretched out filler because Rowling had to get her shit in. 

6th movie should have been the end at the latest. 

 

I see where you're going with this, but I think its much too harsh.

 

I've done the exercise of taking film series and laying their story on a three-act diagram as though they were one giant film. Its a nice exercise in terms of trying to understand how we think of serialized storytelling.

 

I was quite surprised when I realized that the end of "Act I" in the Harry Potter series (which is when Voldemort first manifests in the flesh) happens halfway through the series' running time, which is much longer than you'd want, but certainly not unheard of. The classic Star Wars trilogy ends its first act, too, halfway through with "stopped they must be."

 

At least with Harry Potter you do know no later than the last third of the first film that Voldemort is - and will continue to be - the main antagonist. That doesn't happen with Vader in the classic trilogy (much less the Emperor) until The Empire Strikes Back, doesn't happen with Thanos until Infinity War, not to mention Darth-Zombie in...that trilogy. The Star prequel trilogy sets-up the main antagonist quite early on, but when you look at it as part of a six-film suite, it doesn't work as well.

 

As an exercise in telling a story across multiple films, Harry Potter is second only to the Middle Earth films; and that's not a fair comparison because that series was made by one filmmaker (and as two productions as opposed to seven). So I definitely think the film-to-film storytelling in Harry Potter is more effective than it is not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The series arc failure is native to the books.

 

I agree that the 5th and 6th stories are filler. They just set up a lot of the pieces without advancing the story or information in any meaningful way.

 

Arguably Rowling blew her wad too early by bringing the big bad to life at the end of the 4th story. It massively undercuts tension and your bad guy's ability that it takes him 3 years - 3 freakin' years - to mount a final attack on Harry Potter.

 

You can kinda feel that throughout books 5 and 6. You are like - wtf is Voldemort waiting for, why aren't things escalating?

 

Because she had 3 more books to write.

 

I think if ever this series is updated once again for the screen, and of course it will be, they will have to beef up the 5th and 6th stories by adding material from the 7th book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are basically describing why they are fillers! People not believing Harry is an artificial conflict. Even the McGuffin plot of the book is a failure and not incorporated that well into the larger story. Same with book 6, the reveal of the half-blood prince is lame and pointless.

 

Even so, I think she did well with what she had. I still think 5 is a bad book, in that it is badly written. The craft of writing is poor.

 

But story wise, she does what she can to fill the time and its mostly decent stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.