Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

8 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

 

That is most curious.

 

The speed of blowups is more akin to the one on my own edit as I sped up the intro after realising it had been artifically slowed, but my edit doesn't combine the two versions.

 

After checking just now, turns out I was wrong... their opening of Blowups is identical to mine. What is the name of that file? I want to check the spectrogram as well.

[Giftheck 916]

1 minute ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

After checking just now, turns out I was wrong... their opening of Blowups is identical to mine. What is the name of that file? I want to check the spectrogram as well.

SW02_Music_GameModes_SpaceBattles_Lucrehulk_Phase2Complete_01

SW02_Music_GameModes_SpaceBattles_Lucrehulk_Phase3NearComplete_01 is just Blowups.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

Alright so after the opening section it's not 100% identical to mine. Also there is no spectrogram cutoff for this cue either, so they appear to be using an official source for it.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

I just thought of something: do we know exactly how much of the choir was re-recorded for the ROTS version of Duel of the Fates? Do we know if it was just the section as it is edited in the film, or if they recorded the whole thing? Could there be an entire re-recording of the choir for ROTS that we've only heard a small portion of?

[Arpy 4,145]

I know that the mixing of the choir in the 2018 remaster is louder - especially in 'Anakin vs. Obi-Wan', probably meaning they had the choir recordings separated, right?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

9 hours ago, Arpy said:

I know that the mixing of the choir in the 2018 remaster is louder - especially in 'Anakin vs. Obi-Wan', probably meaning they had the choir recordings separated, right?

 

Yes, we already knew both the choir and percussion was recorded separately. But my question was about how much of the re-recorded choir they recorded for Duel of the Fates, since only a portion of the full cue appears in ROTS (when Yoda and Palpatine fight). I'm curious if they just recorded the choir for that section, or if they re-recorded the choir for the entirety of DotF.

[oierem 151]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:04 AM, Manakin Skywalker said:

I just thought of something: do we know exactly how much of the choir was re-recorded for the ROTS version of Duel of the Fates? Do we know if it was just the section as it is edited in the film, or if they recorded the whole thing? Could there be an entire re-recording of the choir for ROTS that we've only heard a small portion of?

 

I've wondered about this for a long time.. do we know fore sure the choir was re-recorded? And if so, why? I mean, it sounds pretty much the same as the TPM version to me...

[Giftheck 916]

5 minutes ago, oierem said:

 

I've wondered about this for a long time.. do we know fore sure the choir was re-recorded? And if so, why? I mean, it sounds pretty much the same as the TPM version to me...

 

Yes. It is on the log as 6M5 Duel of Yoda and Sidious **Choir Only** but it wasn't assigned a particular date.

 

There are performance and mixing differences. Don't know why Williams wanted it re-recorded.

[oierem 151]

1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

 

Yes. It is on the log as 6M5 Duel of Yoda and Sidious **Choir Only** but it wasn't assigned a particular date.

 

There are performance and mixing differences. Don't know why Williams wanted it re-recorded.

 

I know it's on the log, but as there wasn't an asigned date, I thought that maybe they didn't re-record it.

 

So, I'm assuming that the choir was not recorded separately during TPM and they wanted to mix it differently this time around?

 

Still, I can't hear the differences, and they must be really minor, since it wasn't a rewrite, just a new performance.... (and there were more than one recorded for TMP).

[crumbs 14,287]

It is curious. Something about the existing choral section must have displeased Williams, or he just wanted a new performance because the choir was there. Who knows.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

I was just thinking, I wonder what the source of this music is. I'm also curious what the reasoning was behind shooting this shot to begin with... George probably originally wanted source music to be playing throughout the scene I'll bet.

 

 

[Faleel 5,326]

Almost seems like it was made to fit with the fanfare bit of Flag Parade to me

[Falstaft 2,132]

6 hours ago, The River (Fal) said:

Almost seems like it was made to fit with the fanfare bit of Flag Parade to me

 

10 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I was just thinking, I wonder what the source of this music is. I'm also curious what the reasoning was behind shooting this shot to begin with... George probably originally wanted source music to be playing throughout the scene I'll bet.

 

Hmmm... Never really considered this cue before. It really does matches the rhythm and key of The Flag Parade quite perfectly, which you can just barely hear under the (synth calliope?) source music. Composed specifically for the extended scene on DVD, perhaps, so that it wouldn't be completely jarring to cut to a bunch of Bith musicians? Is "additional music by" listed anywhere on the DVD credits?

[Datameister 2,034]

Most definitely created to meld with the underlying score, which wasn't written to that cut of the scene. I'm guessing this was just doodled into a keyboard for the extended version.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

Maybe that is Joseph Williams's source cue that we've been hearing about for years. 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

SW Squadrons does seem to have a bit of unreleased music... there was at least one file I've come across that has material that's not been in a video game before (the full ending of Spare Canister Caper from AOTC). There are a ton of files so it's going to take a while to go through all of them.

 

EDIT: Strange, I noticed some minor SFX in that cue. I compared it to my YouTube edit and they are exactly the same. I noticed something similar in Battlefront 2 last year... it's almost like they're taking files from my channel and just porting them into the game. 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

I'm working on a project right now and am curious, has anyone ever figured out what 6M2 Sweetner is for AOTC? 

[crumbs 14,287]

6 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I'm working on a project right now and am curious, has anyone ever figured out what 6M2 Sweetner is for AOTC? 

 

Maybe the drums heard when the monsters enter the arena? Possibly not SFX but actually JW source.

 

Or maybe the timpani roll that ends the first portion of the cue, before the rest is dialed out? Lucas might have asked JW to improvise a new ending for the first half of the cue during the sessions, if he decided to drop all that music after hearing it. Does anyone know if that timpani roll is tracked?

 

 

6m2 is Entrance Of The Monsters for anyone wondering.

 

EDIT: There's some speculation about the sweetener here. I found this from Datameister:

On 6/7/2011 at 4:20 AM, Datameister said:

Well, the cue sheet in the post you linked to lists more than 90 musicians as playing for that three-measure cue, so it would have been something utilizing pretty much the whole orchestra. IIRC, that timpani roll was just taken from "Dooku vs. Obi-Wan."

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

Yeah it's definitely not the drums considering it utilizes most of the orchestra. My initial thought is that it could be the orchestra "hit" that is heard throughout the film, but that certainly isn't 3 measures, unless it's just part of the sweetener.

 

Plus we also still don't know what that Conveyor Belt insert is either.

[Faleel 5,326]

@GoodMusician's edit calls the other version of the percussion in Zam is Eliminated the sweetener.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

1 minute ago, Spider-Fal said:

GoodMusician's edit calls the other version of the percussion in Zam in Pursuit the sweetener.

 

That's definitely not it. No idea why he thought that was correct.

[Faleel 5,326]

What if the cue list had a mistake and it wasn't the full orchestra? it is a sweetener, not an insert, after all.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

2 minutes ago, Spider-Fal said:

What if the cue list had a mistake and it wasn't the full orchestra? it is a sweetener, not an insert, after all.

 

Could be. However due to it being percussion-only and having a high tempo, I'd be more inclined to believe it might be the Conveyor Belt insert; however that only only lists strings and brass. Very confusing. I'd imagine due to the simplicity that the percussion was improvised, but that's just a guess.

[Jay 37,249]

Maybe it didn't get used in the film so we've never heard it

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Maybe it didn't get used in the film so we've never heard it

 

That's the most likely scenario. And due to the short length I question whether it would even be on an official expansion either.

[Faleel 5,326]

The short stab with horns for when Padme falls into the vat is from the alternate Finale right? Sounds like it to me anyway.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

2 minutes ago, Spider-Fal said:

The short stab with horns for when Padme falls into the vat is from the alternate Finale right? Sounds like it to me anyway.

 

Yeah, that's the general consensus. There's some weird horn melody at the end that doesn't match up with the sheets, but it sounds like it otherwise.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

Just for fun I spent about ~10 minutes completely re-editing the music in the conveyor belt sequence from scratch, only using the two cues that were originally intended to be used, just to see how it could have sounded had they not chopped it up so much. It's still not great due to the sequence itself being heavily re-edited and reshot, but in my opinion it's much better than what we got in the film.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RXE3qL7UHb5Xd_737a09TURXS-ktj_ua/view?usp=sharing

[enderdrag64 624]

On 11/08/2013 at 8:03 PM, dylan345 said:

Dude, I already answered that question for you with proof from a two hour interview I did with Conrad Pope. The sheet music is the film version and original, the version on the soundtrack, according to Pope, is most likely an edit as he was almost positive there were no revisions, inserts or concert versions of that cue.

Does anyone know if this interview is available somewhere to read/listen to?

[darkspine10 9]

On 20/11/2020 at 2:57 AM, Manakin Skywalker said:

Just for fun I spent about ~10 minutes completely re-editing the music in the conveyor belt sequence from scratch, only using the two cues that were originally intended to be used, just to see how it could have sounded had they not chopped it up so much. It's still not great due to the sequence itself being heavily re-edited and reshot, but in my opinion it's much better than what we got in the film.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RXE3qL7UHb5Xd_737a09TURXS-ktj_ua/view?usp=sharing

Could you possibly reup this link? It seems to be dead now and I'd like to see how the scene would play with the originally intended score.

[ragoz350 450]

1 hour ago, darkspine10 said:

Could you possibly reup this link? It seems to be dead now and I'd like to see how the scene would play with the originally intended score.

In fact, I once did a similar restore for myself (I also mockuped a little section). Not everything is right here (especially the ending, plus since that time there is already a photo of the first page of the cue sketch with right sync hints), but can get a rough idea.

 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

Where was the part after the album track's ending found? 

[ragoz350 450]

1 minute ago, SilverTrumpet said:

Where was the part after the album track's ending found? 

I think, it ripped from the movie by @Manakin Skywalker (I used his edit).

[SilverTrumpet 638]

It sounds a lot cleaner than I'm used to hearing that part. 

[Giftheck 916]

Part of it was found in The Force Unleashed. Some of it, from 4:10, is definitely still DVD rip, you can still faintly hear the machines in the background.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

Yep, opening was from TFU, the ending was from a Blu-ray rip.

[Giftheck 916]

It has been a while since anything has been posted to this thread. May I present to you: Duel Of The Fates, without choir

 

 

This was done by using LALAL.AI's new V4 Orion model, and then using what we had from before to fix a few spots. It's not perfect, but it's actually not that bad. We are not far off being able to just do these sorts of things for ourselves without having to rely on game rips at all. If they do a V5 model, I expect it'll be even better.

[ThePenitentMan1 741]

19 hours ago, Giftheck said:

It has been a while since anything has been posted to this thread. May I present to you: Duel Of The Fates, without choir

 

 

This was done by using LALAL.AI's new V4 Orion model, and then using what we had from before to fix a few spots. It's not perfect, but it's actually not that bad. We are not far off being able to just do these sorts of things for ourselves without having to rely on game rips at all. If they do a V5 model, I expect it'll be even better.

Nice work!  This really showcases how good this composition is, even just as a purely orchestral piece.

 

The only thing that really betrays the fact that this was written to accompany a choir is 3:06-3:20, when the orchestra gives way to the choir solo; this is how I handled this in my own fanedits:

 

I took the trumpet bit at 2:02 and copied it over 3:05 to remove the sustained horns, and then put 3:23 immediately after.  I used the Timpani roll from 3:10-3:17 to smooth over the transition and get the listener to expect the skip.

 

 

This is my new edit:

 

The same edit with the 2:02 trumpet bit, but now it overlaps with 3:32 instead.  3:34 is looped to better preserve the feel of the original pacing.  You get less of the composition, sure, but with this you're left with a much more tasteful reduction of the piece in its place.

 

(Of course, this isn't to say that I want this bit of the instrumental to be left off of MM's eventual expansion; I think it sounds better edited like this, but it's far, far more important for an expansion to preserve the cue as it was recorded and let the faneditors worry about making it flow more nicely)

 

(On the other hand, if an edit like this is the only way Williams would approve the track, and it's either the edit or nothing, I'll gladly take the edit.)

[1977 1,743]

Do we have any spreadsheets setting out the complete scores and available music for the Prequels?

[Groovygoth666 650]

32 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Do we have any spreadsheets setting out the complete scores and available music for the Prequels?

There's some in this thread that might be useful - 

 

[Giftheck 916]

15 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

Nice work!  This really showcases how good this composition is, even just as a purely orchestral piece.

 

The only thing that really betrays the fact that this was written to accompany a choir is 3:06-3:20, when the orchestra gives way to the choir solo; this is how I handled this in my own fanedits:

 

I took the trumpet bit at 2:02 and copied it over 3:05 to remove the sustained horns, and then put 3:23 immediately after.  I used the Timpani roll from 3:10-3:17 to smooth over the transition and get the listener to expect the skip.

 

 

This is my new edit:

 

The same edit with the 2:02 trumpet bit, but now it overlaps with 3:32 instead.  3:34 is looped to better preserve the feel of the original pacing.  You get less of the composition, sure, but with this you're left with a much more tasteful reduction of the piece in its place.

 

(Of course, this isn't to say that I want this bit of the instrumental to be left off of MM's eventual expansion; I think it sounds better edited like this, but it's far, far more important for an expansion to preserve the cue as it was recorded and let the faneditors worry about making it flow more nicely)

 

(On the other hand, if an edit like this is the only way Williams would approve the track, and it's either the edit or nothing, I'll gladly take the edit.)

 

Given Williams recorded a brass version of the opening solo, I wouldn't be surprised if he did the same for the second solo as well - it does appear in concerts where Duel of the Fates is performed without a choir. Otherwise, I think I agree: I'd rather an edit like this than for it to not be included at all. Editors like me can always just drop the vocals of the End Credits version in LALAL.AI and create our own edit if we don't like it.

[ThePenitentMan1 741]

1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

Given Williams recorded a brass version of the opening solo, I wouldn't be surprised if he did the same for the second solo as well - it does appear in concerts where Duel of the Fates is performed without a choir.

 

That would be so amazing if that were the case...  Even if the leaked cue list makes it a little unlikely.

 

Even following enderdrag's theory that the brass opening really is the End Credits Insert, there only being one of them listed hurts the possibility that a second brass insert was recorded, unless the two were recorded together.

 

1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

Otherwise, I think I agree: I'd rather an edit like this than for it to not be included at all. Editors like me can always just drop the vocals of the End Credits version in LALAL.AI and create our own edit if we don't like it.

 

Indeed!

[enderdrag64 624]

7 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

Even following enderdrag's theory that the brass opening really is the End Credits Insert, there only being one of them listed hurts the possibility that a second brass insert was recorded, unless the two were recorded together.

7M3 End Credits Insert is the traditional end credits bit that precedes DOTF in the final movie.

 

I don't think it's known for certain exactly what the orchestral opening is, although it was very likely an insert. No sheet music has leaked publicly to my knowledge though

[ThePenitentMan1 741]

44 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

7M3 End Credits Insert is the traditional end credits bit that precedes DOTF in the final movie.

 

I don't think it's known for certain exactly what the orchestral opening is, although it was very likely an insert. No sheet music has leaked publicly to my knowledge though

 

I thought that at first, too, but then I realized the traditional End Credits bit is probably more likely the Throne Room (End Credits) 1:24 cue that's listed right before 1m2 Main Title.  (Which makes sense, since it's marked as being from the published suite, and End Credits Insert isn't)

 

(So...  I guess it wasn't your theory...  it was mine?!)

[Jay 37,249]

7M3 End Credit {4:00} is "Duel of the Fates".  It actually runs 4:14.

 

7M3 End Credit Insert is the music that bridges from the end of Augie's into the start of Duel of the Fates.  It's bars 107-124, then 127-131 of the published suite, followed by 4 new, original bars.  His original sketch for this was called "End Credit Part 1 Short Ending"

 

7M3 Throne Room {3:00}  is a recording of bars 107-end of the published suite.  It was not used in the film or album, but later turned up in a video game.  It actually runs about 3:21.

 

7M3 Throne Room (End Credits) {1:24} is yet another recording using the published suite, but it hasn't turned up in a video game so we don't know what bars they used.

 

[ThePenitentMan1 741]

I see!  I guess I was wrong, then, thanks for sharing.

[Jay 37,249]

Any time!

[Giftheck 916]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

7M3 Throne Room (End Credits) {1:24} is yet another recording using the published suite, but it hasn't turned up in a video game so we don't know what bars they used.

 

 

Just a guess, but if Williams considered ending it 'traditionally' following Duel of the Fates, I'd say either bar 158 or 162 would be a good jumping off point.

 

EDIT: Something like:

 

 

 

[Giftheck 916]

Listening to the Demasters just to hear the differences in editing for when I prepared the OST edits of my own 'LaLaLand-style' edits, and the realisation has just hit me: these suffer the same problems as the OT Anthology. A lot of wrong takes and bad transitions. Were these released in Atmos like the OT? And were they fixed in the same way? I know TESB had issues with its Demaster but a lot of those were rectified for the Atmos release.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

Were these released in Atmos like the OT?

 

Nope, not yet anyway!