Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)

[bcf236 0]

Thanks for these lyrics!

[Giftheck 916]

Good work on the guide. Did you ever hear back from Jesse Harlin about the Tremolo Swell cue?

I have just a couple of things to point out:

-Your guide doesn't account for the sped-up/slowed down material in the UE, nor does it account for some of the microedits like those to End of Darth Maul. I did release an 'editing package' containing most of this material fixed.

-m_tension_16 of the Obi-Wan game is actually artifical reverb. At first I thought it was the clean ending of the cue but then I heard the true clean end to Courtyard Crossfire in the FMV files of Revenge of the Sith the video game. It ends the way the Jedi Power Battles file has it (minus the mixing of Big Army over the top, of course). JPB Track 05a contains the clean opening for Laser Fight March.

-Augie's Great Municipal Band does have a clean ending somewhere (the LEGO game doesn't count since that's reverbed). I can't remember where I heard it, I'm sure at first I thought it was in the Deleted Scenes Episode I documentary but that, while containing the clean ending, has SFX all over it. For my edit, it's the only bit I've ever had to pull from somebody else's set.

-LEGO Star Wars II has the clean opening for End Credits from the same take as the one used on both the album and in the UE.

-The ANH End Credits, to my belief were never meant to be used. I'm not even sure why they recorded that, unless it was as a 'practice session' or somethin. Eh, without the list of cues we might never know for sure. (Speaking of which, why don't we have one yet?)

- Your assembly of Duel of the Fates is missing one piece that would truly make it the original recording: Disc 2, Track 22 of the Ultimate Edition contains the original version of the 7th verse (at about 2:55 of the album version). Williams chose to loop the instrumental section at 3:55 instead for this bit. The album ending comes from the alternate, 'concerty' version of Duel of the Fates (which is found in its entirety between two files in the Obi-Wan video game)

I have a theory on how Drums Insert was meant to be edited in. I believe it was actually meant to go pretty much as it is shown in the Ultimate Edition (minus the loop and removed pieces and the overlaid Gungan War Horn), meaning that the last note of what is Forest Mist overlays with the last timpani hit of Drums Insert.

[Jilal 569]

-m_tension_16 of the Obi-Wan game is actually artifical reverb. At first I thought it was the clean ending of the cue but then I heard the true clean end to Courtyard Crossfire in the FMV files of Revenge of the Sith the video game. It ends the way the Jedi Power Battles file has it (minus the mixing of Big Army over the top, of course). JPB Track 05a contains the clean opening for Laser Fight March.

Bounty Hunter has the true ending for Courtyard Crossfire.

Notice how the ANH end credits contain updated percussion to make it sound more 90's-00's?

[Giftheck 916]

-m_tension_16 of the Obi-Wan game is actually artifical reverb. At first I thought it was the clean ending of the cue but then I heard the true clean end to Courtyard Crossfire in the FMV files of Revenge of the Sith the video game. It ends the way the Jedi Power Battles file has it (minus the mixing of Big Army over the top, of course). JPB Track 05a contains the clean opening for Laser Fight March.

Bounty Hunter has the true ending for Courtyard Crossfire.

Notice how the ANH end credits contain updated percussion to make it sound more 90's-00's?

You mean file 100? That's exactly the same as the Obi-Wan game.

Revenge of the Sith video game, MOV_M04_010 contains the ending to Courtyard Crossfire, but as I said, it's mired in SFX.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Just to throw this into the discussion:

I admire you guys for your dedication and intensity with which you immerse yourself in this music to mend the mayhem Lucas caused.

[Giftheck 916]

As it's been said many times, Lucas isn't the sole perpetrator: Burtt (I nickname him Butthurtt because he hates Williams because he knows Williams is better) played a massive role too.

[Jilal 569]

As it's been said many times, Lucas isn't the sole perpetrator: Burtt (I nickname him Butthurtt because he hates Williams because he knows Williams is better) played a massive role too.

:w00t: :w00t:

[Trent B 337]

Good work on the guide. Did you ever hear back from Jesse Harlin about the Tremolo Swell cue?

I have just a couple of things to point out:

-Your guide doesn't account for the sped-up/slowed down material in the UE, nor does it account for some of the microedits like those to End of Darth Maul. I did release an 'editing package' containing most of this material fixed.

-m_tension_16 of the Obi-Wan game is actually artifical reverb. At first I thought it was the clean ending of the cue but then I heard the true clean end to Courtyard Crossfire in the FMV files of Revenge of the Sith the video game. It ends the way the Jedi Power Battles file has it (minus the mixing of Big Army over the top, of course). JPB Track 05a contains the clean opening for Laser Fight March.

-Augie's Great Municipal Band does have a clean ending somewhere (the LEGO game doesn't count since that's reverbed). I can't remember where I heard it, I'm sure at first I thought it was in the Deleted Scenes Episode I documentary but that, while containing the clean ending, has SFX all over it. For my edit, it's the only bit I've ever had to pull from somebody else's set.

-LEGO Star Wars II has the clean opening for End Credits from the same take as the one used on both the album and in the UE.

-The ANH End Credits, to my belief were never meant to be used. I'm not even sure why they recorded that, unless it was as a 'practice session' or somethin. Eh, without the list of cues we might never know for sure. (Speaking of which, why don't we have one yet?)

- Your assembly of Duel of the Fates is missing one piece that would truly make it the original recording: Disc 2, Track 22 of the Ultimate Edition contains the original version of the 7th verse (at about 2:55 of the album version). Williams chose to loop the instrumental section at 3:55 instead for this bit. The album ending comes from the alternate, 'concerty' version of Duel of the Fates (which is found in its entirety between two files in the Obi-Wan video game)

I have a theory on how Drums Insert was meant to be edited in. I believe it was actually meant to go pretty much as it is shown in the Ultimate Edition (minus the loop and removed pieces and the overlaid Gungan War Horn), meaning that the last note of what is Forest Mist overlays with the last timpani hit of Drums Insert.

The reason why I didn't make note of the speed issues for the U.E. material is because for the most part I went with other sources that were generally had the correct speed.

You're wrong about Track 05a. Because if you hear Track 04, skip to the 2:33 mark and listen to until 2:40 you'll hear the trumpet note from Track 05a. They just decided to split it up for Track 05a for some weird reason.

How I have it in the editing guide is correct. Obi-Wan, Galaxies and a couple of other games supported how I have the end for "Courtyard Crossfire" is correct. There really is no clean opening for "Laser Fight March". All though with a bit of creativity you could make your own.

If you find that Augie's Great Municipal Band piece, let me know.

[Giftheck 916]

With regards to my theory on Drums Insert placement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlbBFNrL6EE

EDIT: I see I was ninja'd I wasn't aware that Galaxies held anything from Laser Fight March.

As I said, one of the ROTS Game FMV files contains what I believe to be the true ending of Courtyard Crossfire. It fades out on that note naturally enough, it's too long to be just reverb as well.

[Trent B 337]

With regards to my theory on Drums Insert placement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlbBFNrL6EE

EDIT: I see I was ninja'd I wasn't aware that Galaxies held anything from Laser Fight March.

As I said, one of the ROTS Game FMV files contains what I believe to be the true ending of Courtyard Crossfire. It fades out on that note naturally enough, it's too long to be just reverb as well.

It's hard to hear that Game FMV file because of all the sound effects and such. It can be easily replicated. The Phantom Menace computer game, Obi-Wan, Galaxies and I think 1 or 2 more games featured the ending of "Courtyard Crossfire" exactly how I have listed it in the editing guide.

With a bit of editing it's not that difficult to make a clean opening for "Laser Fight March" but in any case the two cues were meant to segue together.

I also made two changes to the editing guide, so those of you who click on it next time those changes should show up.

[Jilal 569]

With regards to my theory on Drums Insert placement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlbBFNrL6EE

EDIT: I see I was ninja'd I wasn't aware that Galaxies held anything from Laser Fight March.

As I said, one of the ROTS Game FMV files contains what I believe to be the true ending of Courtyard Crossfire. It fades out on that note naturally enough, it's too long to be just reverb as well.

I'm sorry to nitpick, but "Drums Insert" starts a bit too late.

I need to learn how to make these great cd covers...

[Jilal 569]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJYSs-FBAlU

Is this an insert or is it tracked?

[Giftheck 916]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJYSs-FBAlU

Is this an insert or is it tracked?

Yes, it's a small section from Escape from Naboo.

[Jilal 569]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJYSs-FBAlU

Is this an insert or is it tracked?

Yes, it's a small section from Escape from Naboo.

Ah, i see (or hear) now. There's some weird tracking and editing in TPM. Not to mention that AOTC has more than 7000 edits. (fact)

[Jilal 569]

For “Dooku’s Death,” five giant drums are played to signal his beheading. Williams decides to add the drums to a later percussion-only session that will facilitate the recording process.

[Trent B 337]

TFU 2 file 452144910 is the said drum piece for when Dooku is beheaded.

[Sweetmeats 2]

Man. You guys really know your stuff. I have nothing to contribute to this thread but just wanted to say thanks for an instructional and entertaining read.

[Jilal 569]

TFU 2 file 452144910 is the said drum piece for when Dooku is beheaded.

I know, but i think he meant the "taiko drums". Or maybe instead of taiko drums, they used 5 gran cassas in They're Coming Around. That would explain why they sound different than in "Boys Into Battle".

[Giftheck 916]

Man. You guys really know your stuff. I have nothing to contribute to this thread but just wanted to say thanks for an instructional and entertaining read.

Hey, I of know you from FFShrine. Welcome

TFU 2 file 452144910 is the said drum piece for when Dooku is beheaded.

I know, but i think he meant the "taiko drums". Or maybe instead of taiko drums, they used 5 gran cassas in They're Coming Around. That would explain why they sound different than in "Boys Into Battle".

The drums also sound different in Grievous and the Droids, in Moving Things Along and in Anakin's Dark Deeds. Doesn't mean they weren't the same drum.

[Sweetmeats 2]

Thanks for the welcome. I've been here since 2005 actually but don't participate in conversations that much. Not to sound all "woe is me" but the knowledge here is a little intimidating at times but I do enjoy reading everything quite a bit.

[Jilal 569]

Thanks for the welcome. I've been here since 2005 actually but don't participate in conversations that much. Not to sound all "woe is me" but the knowledge here is a little intimidating at times but I do enjoy reading everything quite a bit.

The prequels are so complicated...

[Jilal 569]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_EdKGOwno0

(made by me)

[MissPadmé 17]

That's very interesting!

But after seeing all this music put back into the first 17minutes, I clearly feel that some of it works better without, not that those scenes aren't great in itself, but 17minutes of music are just to much, you need some air to breath!

But great that Williams had to write it anyway

[Jilal 569]

I found this somewhere nearly one year ago:

DISC 1

01. Main Title

02. Ambush on Coruscant

03. The Senator is Alive

04. Dark Mysteries

05. Jedi Archives

06. Dexter's Diner

07. Arrival at Kamino

08. Expected Visit

09. Army for the Republic

10. Clone Army Revealed

11. Anakin, Padme, and the Meadow Picnic

12. Jango Fett/The Mandalorian

13. Anakin and Padme Eat Lunch

14. Jango vs. Obi-Wan

15. To Tatooine

DISC 2

01. Bad News/The Tusken Raider Camp/Shmi

02. Yoda's Senses

03. The Conveyor Belt/Geonosis

04. Shmi's Funeral/Going to Geonosis

05. The Droid Factory

06. Captured/C-3PO is Demolished

07. The Arena/Jedi Strike Back

08. Attack of the Clones

09. Following Dooku

10. Duelling with Count Dooku/Much to Learn

11. Yoda's Fight

12. Dooku Escapes/Darth Sidious

13. The Clone Wars

14. Clone Army/Marriage

15. End Credits

Then on the now defunct SW Message Boards i read that a friend of a poster there worked with Sony Classical and that they had finished the 2-disc set by april 2010.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

The track names are very Un-williams albums...

Main title would never be sepparated from ambush on coruscant...

[Jilal 569]

The track names are very Un-williams albums...

Main title would never be sepparated from ambush on coruscant...

I think it's more of an "ultimate edition" track list.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Too few tracks then.

[Jilal 569]

Somehow i really have the feeling they're going to release complete scores...

But ofcourse, that's good ol'

Speculation

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

They will some day, but that track arrangement does not look very official, just that.

[Jonesy 55]

Where is 20th Century Fox Fanfare? All Star Wars expanded releases use to include it

[Giftheck 916]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYjhb6oDatk

This here should show the way I believe Tremolo Swell would have been edited in. I should have edited out the snare roll into it a bit better, either that, or the fuzz at the beginning of the Tremolo Swell is a snare roll (unlikely considering the source). The vid also contains Armies Face Off/Drums Insert. With this one I did a little fixing as suggested (Drums Insert starts earlier). I also found a much better-quality clean ending for it in Republic Commando (file musGEN_jwbattle05b_ep in case you're wondering).

As an added bonus, it seems the YoUTube sensors haven't picked this one up, so people in Germany should be able to watch it (at the time of typing).

[Jilal 569]

Sounds good to me.

Wait, what's with the drum at 2:06 of Drums Insert? I don't think its supposed to be there.

[Giftheck 916]

Sounds good to me.

Wait, what's with the drum at 2:06 of Drums Insert? I don't think its supposed to be there.

It's the only edit of that cue that the UE got right: The last drum hit of Drums Insert is overlaid with the last drum hit of the Forest Mist piece.

On a different note, how do you guys decide which material has precedence over each other? For me, it's this:

Musical Journey DVD > OST Album > Ultime Edition (Phantom Menace only) > Force Unleashed II > Force Unleashed >Battlefront II > Other games

[Jilal 569]

Sounds good to me.

Wait, what's with the drum at 2:06 of Drums Insert? I don't think its supposed to be there.

It's the only edit of that cue that the UE got right: The last drum hit of Drums Insert is overlaid with the last drum hit of the Forest Mist piece.

On a different note, how do you guys decide which material has precedence over each other? For me, it's this:

Musical Journey DVD > OST Album > Ultime Edition (Phantom Menace only) > Force Unleashed II > Force Unleashed >Battlefront II > Other games

How do you know that?

[Giftheck 916]

Because an insert is supposed to replace a certain piece of music and be edited in correctly. The Drums Insert is not long enough to justify a space between the last timpani hit, and the timpani roll that begins the Droid March section. As well as this, working on previous scores, including RotLA, and Attack of the Clones, has shown me how Williams would have written insert cues, so that the material they blend in with goes seamlessly with the original material.

Speaking on Starfighter though, I've just noticed that the track n09 contains part of the missing piece of Take To Your Ships... the same take that the UE uses up to 0:58.5 (then it cuts to a different take on the UE with a somewhat noticeable fade-in of the timpani drum)

[Henry B 50]

Starfighter Special Edition has 48000 khz WAVE sound. Best of all, I think.

[Giftheck 916]

Starfighter Special Edition has 48000 khz WAVE sound. Best of all, I think.

It is the best quality if you're editing at 48000 khz. However, the album material, and what most of us edit at, is 44100 khz, as is most of the other material. Starfighter is the best material in regards to that downgrading it to 44100 khz doesn't have much of an impact on the quality itself, but upscaling the other material creates a contrast - you can tell the difference between what was at a lesser playback rate.

[Trent B 337]

ggutck,

I don't think your assessment on the ending for "Drums Insert" is correct. That's the ending for "Forest Mist". "Drums Insert" is heard in it's entirety (minus starting over) in TPMG file sqstalk1. The clean ending is sqstalk1end.

[Giftheck 916]

ggutck,

I don't think your assessment on the ending for "Drums Insert" is correct. That's the ending for "Forest Mist". "Drums Insert" is heard in it's entirety (minus starting over) in TPMG file sqstalk1. The clean ending is sqstalk1end.

I'm using the take used in the album track 14 with the RC track to give it a clean ending. The quality is much better with that construction. The clean ending for Drums insert comes in the file musGEN_jwbattle05b_ep from Republic Commando (the file starts out with the UE mix of the cue Jabba Introduction, there are three different versions of the file, each starting with the UE mix: musGEN_jwbattle05a_ep ends with Jabba Introduction's intro, musGEN_jwbattle05b_ep ends with Drums Insert's clean ending, and musGEN_jwbattle05c_ep combines the two).

The way I have it in that video is with the insert edited into the cue. Drums Insert is intact, with the end of Forest Mist overlapping the end of Drums Insert, as it does on the UE.

[Trent B 337]

I remember one of the tracks of Jedi Power Battles having the unused section for "The Big Army" play in full but it was covered by sfx. So I think it was during game play. I wish someone would play the game with just the music going if you can turn the sfx and voices off. It's been years since I played the game so I don't remember if you could or not.

I also remember either The Phantom Menace game or Obi-Wan having the clean ending for "Bubble World" but it too was covered by sfx. So like "The Big Army" piece it would probably be during game play of those games.

It's been years since I've actually played all three.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I think you mean cutscenes, because those games' music files (without sfx) play when you are playing the levels...

[Trent B 337]

I think you mean cutscenes, because those games' music files (without sfx) play when you are playing the levels...

Ah possibly.

Separate post...

John Takis and I were talking last night about TPM score and he has a very rather interesting theory.

He believes that the opening of "The Arrival Of Tatooine" on the U.E. is correct but edited down. The first 8 seconds or so of "Introducing Jar Jar" on the OST is actually the opening of "Arrival Of Tatooine" but another take. That's why there's a cymbal present on the OST material but not on the U.E. He believes the opening of "Introducing Jar Jar" starts at the 8 second point and we don't have the clean opening for it. All though it's not difficult to simulate a clean opening.

He says for the OST version of the opening of "Arrival Of Tatooine" you can hear the fade in from the previous note from Track 4 of the OST. I never paid attention to it until last night and he was definitely right about that.

I used m_glo from "Insider's Guide" for the opening of "Arrival At Tatooine" and also kept how it is from the OST track for "Introducing Jar Jar" since we don't have the clean opening at the 8 second mark.

I do believe he maybe right about this though.

[Jilal 569]

So... The point is, that we don't have the first 8 seconds from Introducing Jar-Jar?

[Trent B 337]

I believe we do but we don't have a clean opening.

Re-read my post a bit more carefully. Shortly after the 8 second mark on Track 4 of the OST is where John and I believe "Introducing Jar Jar" actually begins. We don't have a clean opening for it but it's not hard to replicate.

Also a lot of us just assumed the opening of "Arrival At Tatooine" on the U.E. was just tracked but after the discussion with John last night we don't believe it is, it is just edited down.

[Jay 37,287]

I know JW likes to microedit his OSTs and all, but I really can't understand why he would have done what you guys are describing. Seems pointless.

[Faleel 5,340]

We don't have a clean opening for it but it's not hard to replicate.

How are you going to replicate it, reverse reverb?

[Trent B 337]

I know JW likes to microedit his OSTs and all, but I really can't understand why he would have done what you guys are describing. Seems pointless.

I don't think it was necessarily Williams himself that moved the pieces around. It was most likely who ever was the actual person who edited the music for the OST.

We don't have a clean opening for it but it's not hard to replicate.

How are you going to replicate it, reverse reverb?

Nope I took the horn note about 21 seconds from track 4 of the OST then took the material from the 8 second mark or so after the initial french horn and mixed it. It's hard to explain but it worked pretty well.

[John Takis 206]

I know JW likes to microedit his OSTs and all, but I really can't understand why he would have done what you guys are describing. Seems pointless.

Listen to Track 7 on the OST, at the very beginning. You can actually hear the final note of the introductory passage (as heard at the start of OST Track 4, and on the UE, albeit microedited) still echoing beneath the opening note. Then compare to the m_glo file from the Insider's Guide. I believe that's the way it was recorded.

A lot of microedits and moved-around bits seem pointless on these OSTs. But in this case, there IS a point -- even if it's a debatable one. Track 4 is the first instance of Jar Jar's theme on the CD, and whoever edited it must have figured that the opening passage for the Tatooine arrival made a more fitting musical introduction. So it was moved. The cymbal (which is NOT present on the UE or IG file) would have either been added at this point, or it represents an alternate take which was used.

Again, I think the evidence here is pretty clear. The "ghost note" at the very beginning of OST Track 7 is the clincher, for me.

[Jay 37,287]

OK I'll check it out!

[Giftheck 916]

I believe we do but we don't have a clean opening.

Re-read my post a bit more carefully. Shortly after the 8 second mark on Track 4 of the OST is where John and I believe "Introducing Jar Jar" actually begins. We don't have a clean opening for it but it's not hard to replicate.

Also a lot of us just assumed the opening of "Arrival At Tatooine" on the U.E. was just tracked but after the discussion with John last night we don't believe it is, it is just edited down.

I know JW likes to microedit his OSTs and all, but I really can't understand why he would have done what you guys are describing. Seems pointless.

Listen to Track 7 on the OST, at the very beginning. You can actually hear the final note of the introductory passage (as heard at the start of OST Track 4, and on the UE, albeit microedited) still echoing beneath the opening note. Then compare to the m_glo file from the Insider's Guide. I believe that's the way it was recorded.

A lot of microedits and moved-around bits seem pointless on these OSTs. But in this case, there IS a point -- even if it's a debatable one. Track 4 is the first instance of Jar Jar's theme on the CD, and whoever edited it must have figured that the opening passage for the Tatooine arrival made a more fitting musical introduction. So it was moved. The cymbal (which is NOT present on the UE or IG file) would have either been added at this point, or it represents an alternate take which was used.

Again, I think the evidence here is pretty clear. The "ghost note" at the very beginning of OST Track 7 is the clincher, for me.

That would imply that both the TPM video game and a bunch of other gams have it wrong too. I did have the file once (I think it was called something like "sqswamp" or "sqjarjar" or something like that) but I no longer have it.

In regards to The Big Army section, you're referring to those percussion hits that go into the reprise of Duel of the fates before the Anakin Takes Off segment, right? It's in Music6a. BUT it does contain ambient noise as well so it's unusable.