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Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)


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I think I know what the 6M5 Insert may be. I think it's the material from 7:59 of track 12 (or alternatively, 6:52.5 of track 2 of the Galactic Battlegrounds CD), because when I listened to the film rip of that track (which I use to fill in the three missing parts of the Force Theme of 6M5) there is a considerable gap at that point between the brass ending and the strings beginning - not faded, and it doesn't seem to be artificial reverb either.

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I think the finished version works better, for two reasons. One, its more focused. Lucas mercilessly threw out material partaining to the establishment of the rebellion, the resolution of the mystery

Almost seems like it was made to fit with the fanfare bit of Flag Parade to me

I found something rather interesting. Not really important at all, but interesting. I've been going through my rip of Jedi: Fallen Order (I've only examined a handful of files thus far). There appears

I think I know what the 6M5 Insert may be. I think it's the material from 7:59 of track 12 (or alternatively, 6:52.5 of track 2 of the Galactic Battlegrounds CD), because when I listened to the film rip of that track (which I use to fill in the three missing parts of the Force Theme of 6M5) there is a considerable gap at that point between the brass ending and the strings beginning - not faded, and it doesn't seem to be artificial reverb either.

Actually no the 6m5 insert is from Battlefront 2 file going_after_dooku-tusken_camp the first 19 seconds of that piece. I don't remember where I heard it I think it was either TFU 1 or 2 but it had the opening for 6m5 which started at the 19 second mark.

The part at the end of 6m5 was looped in the film when they tracked it into "The Conveyor Belt" scene. You can't really hear the loop because it's covered by some sfx and I remember replicating it once a long time ago.

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I think I know what the 6M5 Insert may be. I think it's the material from 7:59 of track 12 (or alternatively, 6:52.5 of track 2 of the Galactic Battlegrounds CD), because when I listened to the film rip of that track (which I use to fill in the three missing parts of the Force Theme of 6M5) there is a considerable gap at that point between the brass ending and the strings beginning - not faded, and it doesn't seem to be artificial reverb either.

Actually no the 6m5 insert is from Battlefront 2 file going_after_dooku-tusken_camp the first 19 seconds of that piece. I don't remember where I heard it I think it was either TFU 1 or 2 but it had the opening for 6m5 which started at the 19 second mark.

The part at the end of 6m5 was looped in the film when they tracked it into "The Conveyor Belt" scene. You can't really hear the loop because it's covered by some sfx and I remember replicating it once a long time ago.

TFU 2, 5.ogg_conv is probably what you're thinking of, but since it starts in exactly the same place as the BF2 cue it's hard to tell. Before the Force theme kicks in it goes back on itself, before going out to They're Coming Around. It definitley sounds like a fade to me between the looping (there's a note in the begiining of the loop that is, to me anyways, quite clearly faded in)

If the Force Theme contains looped material in the film, it's a pair of very odd loops because the second loop occurs twice, once in the Conveyor Belt and again where the cue is meant to go in the film. They certainly don't sound like loops listening to the front channels. I might send you my edit of the cue so you can see what I mean.

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The 6m5 Insert is the force theme that plays in the film and on the OST (it replaces 1:28-1:47 of the original version - that timing obviously including the two unreleased bits put back in)

As originally written, the love theme played in that scene instead

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The 6m5 Insert is the force theme that plays in the film and on the OST (it replaces 1:28-1:47 of the original version - that timing obviously including the two unreleased bits put back in)

As originally written, the love theme played in that scene instead

Ah! So my very first theory WAS right then. I wonder if it's been heard anywhere. I can't actually picture it though, and that would explain the gap between the end of the Force Theme and the rest of the track in the film.

Have you got a mock-up for this missing bit?

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No, no mockup yet

And the OST track is 100% correct as far as containing the entirely of the insert, and it being properly replacing the original music. In the film there is some creative editing around that area

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How did you come across the info that the album has the Force-theme insert correct?

On an unrelated note, I'm surprised that there's no concert suites for Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith besides Across the Stars and Battle of the Heroes. Even TPM had some other concert suites.

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How did you come across the info that the album has the Force-theme insert correct?

On an unrelated note, I'm surprised that there's no concert suites for Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith besides Across the Stars and Battle of the Heroes. Even TPM had some other concert suites.

Well.. built upon what themes?

but to me Anakin's Betrayal is DEF worthy of being published as a Williams Signature Edition

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TPM had concert suites of the Flag Parade and Jar-Jar's Theme (although the Jar-Jar's Theme concert suite, Adventures of Jar-Jar, is really just a mixutre of parts from various cues).

For AOTC, I would love to have seen a live take on the Arena theme, and possibly the Kamino battle. For ROTS, Lament makes a very good candidate, and I think one for Anakin's Dark Deeds. Darth Sidious' theme also needs a concert version, it would interesting to see what way that would have been taken. As a matter of fact I edited together a few 'concert suites' from various pieces of material myself.

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I think Williams was simply not as inspired by the films AOTC and ROTS, not to mention much busier.

For TPM, he had no other scores to write that summer, so he had time to create concert arrangements and such and hone them in live performances. Plus the score he wrote was richer in themes to begin with.

For AOTC, I don't think he was very inspired, not to mention probably a bit POed about how his score to TPM was edited in the final film. Plus he had less time to write the score, and had to record it further away from the final cut of the film being ready - he only really had time to compose cues for the film, and even then wasn't able to do the entire final battle. I think the only reason we even got Across the Stars is because Gelb wanted something to sell the soundtrack in stores. Plus he had to leave AOTC in mid-January to go work on Minority Report.... and then right after that, go do Harry Potter 2 and Catch Me If You Can. No chance to write more concert suites, no time to go on tour and perform them.

ROTS, is about the same thing. He only had so much time before he had to leave to go write War Of The Worlds, then Geisha and munich. We're probably lucky we even got Battle of the Heroes

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Huh? It didn't have the same approach at all. He didn't have to rush off to score other films, AND the score had more themes, AND the OST had more concert arrangements, AND her further embellished those on tour...

You just proved my point :P

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I'd really like to hear a concert suite of the Trade Federation March from TPM.

So, I have a question after viewing the AOTC cue list. Were the following cues: 3M9, 5M4, 6M3, 6M4 pre-planned to be tracked music, or does it seem that Williams did in fact originally compose music for those tracks but they ended up not recording the music and using tracked music instead?

Andy

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As far as we can tell, those cues were never written. During the spotting sessions, they must have decided to use tracked music in places where it wouldn't be possible to write new music, and they reserved the appropriate cue numbers for those parts of the film. (Although there are, of course, parts of the film that use tracked music instead of what Williams originally wrote.)

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As far as we can tell, those cues were never written. During the spotting sessions, they must have decided to use tracked music in places where it wouldn't be possible to write new music, and they reserved the appropriate cue numbers for those parts of the film.

That's bizarre.

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As far as we can tell, those cues were never written. During the spotting sessions, they must have decided to use tracked music in places where it wouldn't be possible to write new music, and they reserved the appropriate cue numbers for those parts of the film.

That's bizarre.

My own guess is that Williams wasn't that comfortable writing music to sequences that were just unfinished/rough animatics--he comes from a school that was trained to compose the score to a locked pictures, or at least something as much as close. Also, after the TPM experience, I guess he didn't feel that great to write long, time-consuming action sequences that in the end would probably have been trimmed/removed/conformed (i.e. butchered) to the final edit during the mix. Considering also that action sequences in Star Wars movies require a lot of busy and demanding music, I guess he preferred to concentrate on underscoring the actual storyline and sequences that gave him a bit more variety, maybe just to keep himself at least more engaged.

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I think it was more a case of him having to leave to go do Minority Report. If Minority Report didn't exist, he wouldn't have had to of finished recording all the music in January. He could have kept writing through Feb and March as the picture kept changing, and recording final pieces in March or April that matched the final cut. But he didn't have that luxury, so he composed what he could before he had to leave

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I think it was more a case of him having to leave to go do Minority Report. If Minority Report didn't exist, he wouldn't have had to of finished recording all the music in January. He could have kept writing through Feb and March as the picture kept changing, and recording final pieces in March or April that matched the final cut. But he didn't have that luxury, so he composed what he could before he had to leave

It could very well be the case, but that didn't prevent TPM score being severely butchered. I remember an interview with Williams back in 1999 where he explained this very situation--at a certain point, the composer's pencil has to stop, as recording venues and musicians have to be booked and the score must be recorded, no matter how finished the film is.

So, in the case of AOTC and ROTS, I guess Williams and Wannberg tried a kind of "minimum damage" option and agreed to use tracked music in certain instances.

UPDATE: I found the Williams 1999 interview I mentioned above:

http://www.askmar.com/Film/Movie%20Music.pdf

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Speaking of AOTC, does the Across the Stars piece belong in Dooku vs Obi-Wan? It's the bit where the clones find Padme and she tells them to get a transport. It seems to end too abruptly, and I suspect it may belong elsewhere, at least partially.

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Speaking of AOTC, does the Across the Stars piece belong in Dooku vs Obi-Wan? It's the bit where the clones find Padme and she tells them to get a transport. It seems to end too abruptly, and I suspect it may belong elsewhere, at least partially.

From what I was told, it does. I was also told there is original unused music after that right when Dooku strikes Obi-Wan with his saber and is about to kill him. As we know the sequence for that was tracked from "Zam Chase", right before it went back into the duel music.

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The bad thing is if a complete AOTC score is released, it will feel like it's missing something after the Arena cue.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't include tracked music into my AOTC or ROTS edits like a lot of people seem to for some weird reason.

All though like many here I wish Lucas had allowed Williams to write new music for the Geonosis sequences.

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You mean between all the tracked music they placed between 6M2 and 6M5?

EDIT: Ninja'd by Trent :D Yup, I DO include the tracked music in my edits, but if it came to Intended-Order edits (where I edit it so each cue flows into the other as they would on film) then I tend to omit tracked music.

EDIT2: I think I may have figured out where the unknown tremolo swell goes, but I have no way of confirming this. I think it goes between "Running out of Time" and "Talk of Podracing". The partial cue list we have lists an untitled cue between those two, and I can't see it going anywhere else. It may just have been an insert though, like the Drums Insert or the alternate "High-Council Meeting". As I said, I have no way of knowing for sure, especially without a full cue list for TPM.

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The bad thing is if a complete AOTC score is released, it will feel like it's missing something after the Arena cue.

Nah. I betcha an official AOTC 2CD set would go right from Entrance Of The Monsters to Padme Falls just like the OST does

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It had better not. As much as I like one cue flowing straight into another, it's clear that those two weren't really meant to go together at all anywhere expect for the album. I certainly don't edit them that way. Speaking of which, I wonder if the Galactic Battlegrounds file for that is actually a prototype mix for the album that got rejected.

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It had better not. As much as I like one cue flowing straight into another, it's clear that those two weren't really meant to go together at all anywhere expect for the album. I certainly don't edit them that way. Speaking of which, I wonder if the Galactic Battlegrounds file for that is actually a prototype mix for the album that got rejected.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was.

I too don't like "Padmé Falls" being mixed with the end of "Entrance Of The Monsters".

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I'm not saying we like it, but I do think that's what an album producer working on a 2CD complete score would do

I'm not so sure about that though, if they'e going by composer notes of how the score is supposed to go. In any case, it would be one mighty-long track then because it would go from Love Pledge to Entrance of the Monsters to Padme Falls into Dooku vs Obi-Wan into Yoda Strikes Back into Finale into End Credits. So, unless they're doing it like the Ultimate Edition and splitting each track, it would be a 25-minute track in length (roughly, based on a quick edit I did of those cues).

For all we know, they might also decide to include all the tracked music. I hope not, personally - it would be very much redundant.

That aside, do we have a clean ending for Entrance of the Monsters? I also note that it seems we're missing a preceeding note to the timpani hit at the beginning of Padme Falls, but that is something I won't split hairs over.

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Actually from 5m5 Finding The Conveyor Belt to 6m2 Entrance Of The Monsters is one long connected sequence!

So yea, if that was connected to 6m5 Padme Falls again that would be one lonnnnnng track :P

Sadly we don't have a cleaning ending for 6m2, but one can be faked fairly convincingly.

Of course a properly done set wouldn't include tracked music. Are you high? :P

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The thing is all the Star Wars scores were recorded in London, they don't have to worry about re-use fees to get us the intended version of the Prequels. Lucasfilm is just having a thumb up their ass and not wanting to release them, probably because of the backlash they got from the U.E. of TPM. All though the backlash was justified since they claimed something that was in a sense not true.

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Well, one way or another, eventually we will have the complete scores to the Prequels, so I really didn't understand why they didn't capitalize on that and just release complete scores properly. Granted it is now possible they may just do that, and I hope they do. If not, it is a real shame we can't find anybody with the sessions.

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It is funny that scores nobody's ever heard of get PERFECT complete releases every 2 weeks, but so many GUARANTEED HUGE SELLERS don't get released at all. Funny business we're in

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yea I have high hopes that Sony will release some kind of new versions of the scores to tie in with either the blu ray box set this year or the start of the 3d theatrical versions next year

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Yeah, that was a fun little theme. As much as I hate their antics in the droid factory, can you imagine how the already awesome (mostly unused) music would have been if Williams had thrown in a loud, frantic version of that theme on top of the mechanical frenzy he wrote?

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It is funny that scores nobody's ever heard of get PERFECT complete releases every 2 weeks, but so many GUARANTEED HUGE SELLERS don't get released at all. Funny business we're in

That's probably one of the main reasons they are not released.

They are huge sellers so they can continue to sit on them, waiting for the highest bidder or release them when they feel like it. Lucas knows he can repackage the original trilogy every 5-10 years and add different sparkly packaging, screen savers, and collector cards and people will suck it in.

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