Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)

[King Mark 3,625]

Well ,this was a specific moment where Williams could have composed something original and very powerful

There's that "dark side" motif that appears a lot in the unreleased music (Revisiting Padme, Be Careful of your Friend, It's can't be, Padme's Visit and other cues).He could have done something with that with a big choir or something

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

I always thought that scene should have had a sort of mix between the quick string part from Duel of the Fates (da-dee-dadada) and the Imperial March, in a slow tempo. And of course, a choir.

[Giftheck 916]

yes, that's the one place in RotS where there's no excuse for tracked music

I'm inclined to believe that this scene was meant to go before the scene where Yoda executes Gree after Order 66 is given, given that it seems the missing bit of Lament in the film seems to fit that scene pretty much perfectly. I think tracked music was initially only planned for the Utapau scenes that ended up being after this scene.

[Datameister 2,037]

Whoa...that's a very interesting theory! If only the sketch of "Lament" were available for study...it might give some indication of what was supposed to be happening onscreen during the omitted music.

[Jay 37,281]

It is annoying that that's the ONE cue we have in orchestrated but not sketch!

[Datameister 2,037]

By the way, another piece of evidence for the 3PO subplot in the droid factory being there all along: there are live-action elements of R2 grabbing his head and re-attaching it to his body in the arena scene. Those shots would have been done with the droid factory in mind...otherwise, there'd be no reason for the heads to be switched. Since the droid factory sequence itself was already shot pretty late, I highly doubt they could have added the head-swapping a few months after that and still had time to shoot live action elements. If the head-swapping had been added later, they probably would have just gone full CG for both droids.

[Jay 37,281]

Hmmm ok, so its possible a fan-created assembly of all the original music as recorded might just match the final cut of the film?

[Datameister 2,037]

Well, I'm guessing there was recutting involved after Williams scored it, so such an assembly might not fit perfectly, but I'm guessing that he did indeed write music for, say, the droids on the ledge and 3PO getting his head swapped.

[Jay 37,281]

Those scenes have some of the worst dialogue in the entire movie

"Shut me down! Machines creating machines?"

Terrible

[Datameister 2,037]

"Oh, I'm quite beside myself..."

Even when I was a young fanboy, those lines made me cringe.

[Giftheck 916]

Well, the film version of the Conveyor Belt, with all its tracking, stands at about 5:30. The original sequence, if the cue sheet is correct, would stand at about 4:22, and with the insert at 4:25, so something else would have been added to the sequence, I'm sure of it. As to how the sequence itself would have gone, that's a mystery since we still don't know what was exactly in the Conveyor Belt, because there's evidently still bits missing from it.

[Datameister 2,037]

Well, I wouldn't put too much trust in the lengths provided on the cue sheet. We know at least some of them are inaccurate, and not just by a couple of seconds. But in any case, yeah, it seems like the sequence was lengthened. I'm gonna chalk it up to the fact that Williams most likely only had an animatic to work with during the spotting sessions, and the finalized visual effects shots ultimately added up to a longer end product. The 3PO subplot would only account for a few seconds, anyhow.

[Jay 37,281]

"Oh, I'm quite beside myself..."

Even when I was a young fanboy, those lines made me cringe.

I know, me too

[Giftheck 916]

Also, it seems that part of the insert is used in the film. It's at the point where Anakin goes "Not again... Obi-Wan's going to kill me." It's only the fading gong followed by three brass notes (that are missing from the Bounty Hunter file). But it's obious that it's edited in, even if not in its entirety.

[MrJosh 892]

Man....conveyor belt = messy.

So quick question. Any place I can go find the rots sketches. I am pretty fascinated with studying Johnny's scores. I'm also not sure how one gets into the whole "score trading" hobby, especially when one doesn't have much to trade :/

Anyways, I love the theory about the Vader/ troops at temple scene being meant for part of the lament. Can't wait to get home and edit the scene with the music! The arena cue is WAY too upbeat for that.

[Datameister 2,037]

I'll PM you some information about score trading, Josh.

[Krang 1]

Well, the film version of the Conveyor Belt, with all its tracking, stands at about 5:30. The original sequence, if the cue sheet is correct, would stand at about 4:22, and with the insert at 4:25, so something else would have been added to the sequence, I'm sure of it. As to how the sequence itself would have gone, that's a mystery since we still don't know what was exactly in the Conveyor Belt, because there's evidently still bits missing from it.

In February of 2005 Lucas had his final round of reshoots. They filmed at least two scenes regarding Order 66. The first being the shot of the female Jedi riding the speeder bike. The second was Vader walking into Shaak Ti's room in the Jedi Temple and killing her. The latter of course was not used. So it adds credibility to the fact that George was seriously tinkering with Order 66 late in the game. So what did it look like before these reshoots and what was shown to Williams when he began to write? hmm

[TownerFan 4,983]

So it adds credibility to the fact that George was seriously tinkering with Order 66 late in the game. So what did it look like before these reshoots and what was shown to Williams when he began to write? hmm

I guess the sequence was edited differently, because the "Lament" cue has several bars edited out in the final film mix.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'll just say it was a MAJOR missed opportunity for Williams to contribute. I was soooo disappointed to hear tracked music.

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

Didn't someone upload a video with the sequence restored with the Lament music? I can't remember...

[Giftheck 916]

Both me and GoodMusician (BrachioInGen) have, mine's no longer available since I closed my YouTube account.

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

And how accurate are those? And could you post a link to the ones' that available, please? I would love to listen/watch it!

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

Sorry for the double post, but I was recently sitting on the piano and tried to do my own Duel of the Fates vs. The Imperial March and here's the sketchy result...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2C3PJRCX

It even contains a small reference to Across the Stars. Let me know your opinons, please!

PS: Sorry for the crappy synths.

[rpvee 805]

That was really cool! I heard much more DOTF than the March, though. I liked the Across reference.

[Krang 1]

So it adds credibility to the fact that George was seriously tinkering with Order 66 late in the game. So what did it look like before these reshoots and what was shown to Williams when he began to write? hmm

I guess the sequence was edited differently, because the "Lament" cue has several bars edited out in the final film mix.

Also, when we first see Kashyyyk and it shows the female Jedi (Luminara Unduli) talking with some clonetroopers, that was originally part of Order 66. Only there was more to it as the clones turn on her while she's talking with them. Lucas just cut the turning of the clones and put the rest of her footage earlier in the film. Wouldn't at all be surprised if that change happened as late as early 2005 when he was filming other portions to the Jedi purge and Williams was writing and recording. Some of that score may very well match an extended portion of her death scene.

[Delorean90 42]

Okay, I'm confused. There is still material missing from "Lament"?

[Datameister 2,037]

The only material missing from "Lament" on the OST is the quiet passage in the Jedi Temple, and that's cleanly available from one of the game files. But part of the cue wasn't used in the film, which is why there's all this speculation about what it might have been written for.

Also, totally off-topic, but I have to share my excitement with someone: I finally found a quick, easy, neat way to make big wavy lines that repeat indefinitely in Finale. Very useful for filling in measures of ad lib material. I finally found a font with a usable wave shape in it and used it to create a custom Smart Line. Boom. Instant beautiful wavy lines wherever I need 'em. My life is now complete.

[King Mark 3,625]

The only material missing from "Lament" on the OST is the quiet passage in the Jedi Temple, and that's cleanly available from one of the game files.

It's too bad it didn't show up in later files. The Galaxies file is only 128kbps and one missing second makes it hard to edit back into the OST track

One of Williams most frustrating OST microedits ever along with the end of It Can't Be

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the Galaxies file is compressed, although it's not the sort of passage that sounds truly awful with mp3 compression. And with the right software, it actually should be possible to almost perfectly recreate the original. I was talking with Trent about this earlier. All you really need is to stretch out the sound a little bit in the right places. (Paulstretch is fantastic for that, and totally free.) I haven't done anything with that cue since before I got Paulstretch, but one of these days, I'm going to redo my edit of "Lament", and I'm guessing it'll sound pretty much identical to the real thing.

[King Mark 3,625]

well, if you can do an ultimate edit of Lament I want to hear it

[MrJosh 892]

So it adds credibility to the fact that George was seriously tinkering with Order 66 late in the game. So what did it look like before these reshoots and what was shown to Williams when he began to write? hmm

I guess the sequence was edited differently, because the "Lament" cue has several bars edited out in the final film mix.

Also, when we first see Kashyyyk and it shows the female Jedi (Luminara Unduli) talking with some clonetroopers, that was originally part of Order 66. Only there was more to it as the clones turn on her while she's talking with them. Lucas just cut the turning of the clones and put the rest of her footage earlier in the film. Wouldn't at all be surprised if that change happened as late as early 2005 when he was filming other portions to the Jedi purge and Williams was writing and recording. Some of that score may very well match an extended portion of her death scene.

Interesting!! Where did you find this out? That would have been an interesting addition to the purge.

[lordskylark 1]

Not sure the exact source, but there are lots of deleted elements in the 'Shooting Script'. I also recall seeing an early animatronic for that scene, which I think was included in one of the documentaries.

[Krang 1]

This is what I think happened.

The shooting and final scripts had outlined the death of Luminara Unduli during Order 66. It starts off pretty much how her scene in ROTS does, only it continues with the clones pulling out blasters and shooting her to death. The comic adaptation of ROTS shows this too.

Just before principal photography began in Australia during the summer of 2003, many actors who played Jedi extras in AOTC had costume and makeup tests to reprise their roles for Episode III. Mary Oyaya returned to play Luminara Unduli again. However, Lucas didn't end up filming with her that summer. Nor Mimi Daraphet who returned to play Bultar Swan. Nor Nalini Krishan who returned to play Barriss Offee. The extras that did get filmed for their returning Jedi roles were filmed because their scenes had sets built that summer. Tux Akindoyeni returned as Agen Kolar and got cut down in the Chancellors Office. Lily Nyamwasa returned to play Stass Allie and she sat down in her seat on the Jedi Council. But the Jedi scheduled for off world/set deaths got bumped unless you were Silas Carson playing both Ki-Adi-Mundi and Nute Gunray.

The next round of pickups was very short and only involved minor actors and characters at ILM in California during the spring of 2004. Here he filmed the death scene of Aayla Secura according to a set diary and the making of episode 3 book. Now is this when he filmed Luminara Unduli? We know that Mary Oyaya was replaced with Fay David. David was a visual effects supervisor for the prequels. It would have been very easy to film this scene then with David being close by as it didn't make sense to fly Oyaya from Australia. This would have been a year before the films release and about 9 months before the score was recorded.

The next set of pickups occured in England during September of 2004. This involved plenty of the main cast and lasted a week or two. He shot Shaak Ti's new Order 66 death scene here. This wasn't too long before Williams began to write the score. But this death scene was never used. Not sure how long it lasted before it was cut though.

In January of 2005, the Hyperspace webcam picked up filming at ILM. Here Lucas filmed the death of Stass Allie. In the summer of 2003, he filmed Lily Nyamwasa as Stass Allie sitting on the Council. During pickups a year later, he had Tayce Bayliss sit in for her in the council because pickups were now in England. Finally he decided to shoot a death scene on the bike and used Nina Fallon play her.

The final bit of pickups lasted a couple of days in early February of 2005 in England. This would have been just before Williams recorded the score.

I think Lucas figured that the Unduli death was too repetitive and so he decided to replace it with Stass Allie's death scene which was a tad more unique than just another Jedi standing around before getting shot. He had Allie film her death scene in early January of 05 and took part of the Unduli death scene and added it as part of the establishing shot for Kashyyyk earlier in the film which as it turns out had tracked music. I think he cut the Shaak Ti scene because it didn't make any sense for the Jedi Master to be sitting around the Temple while Clones are marching up and down the hallways shooting Jedi. She'd have to be the dumbest Jedi in the galaxy. But he filmed that in September of 04 which makes you wonder how long it remained in the film before he cut it.

Either way, Order 66 was not locked in place by January of 2005 and I suspect greatly that the music playing over Allie's death was originally intended for Unduli just before Yoda gets attacked.

So back to Anakin marching up the temple steps. It is almost unthinkable that for such a dramatic and iconic scene they just decided to use tracked music again. The idea that it might have been moved late in production sounds more comfortable than Williams agreeing to tracked music when it absolutely wasn't necessary. MAYBE Lucas cut the Luminara Unduli death scene, replaced it with Anakin marching up the temple steps, then changed his mind again and replaced it with Allie. Not that he didn't always plan on the marching up the steps, but when Williams was writing it was in a different position in the film. Then when it was bumped to the front of Order 66, it was now too far ahead of the start of the lament. Then that would mean it would have cut from Palpatine smiling to the battle of Utapau with no original music up until Obi-Wan being shot off the cliff. hmm Unless some of that was a transplant. Tough to figure out.

I'm sure the only consolation prize for Williams was that the tracked music was cut music from AOTC. At least it was featured on screen...twice.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

In ROTS, which cue exactly was 'A Plot to Destroy the Jedi' tracked from?

[Datameister 2,037]

"Anakin Crawling."

[Giftheck 916]

Actually, I'm fairly sure there was more tracking in there that was from AOTC "Thwarted Attempt". Could be thinking of the wrong scene though.

[Datameister 2,037]

I could be thinking of the wrong scene, too, haha. I had in my mind the one where Mace and Yoda and Obi-wan are riding through Coruscant in the gunship. If we're talking about the war room scene, then yeah, it's all from AOTC's "Thwarted Attempt." I just can't remember which scene the "plot to destroy the Jedi" line was spoken in...

[Jay 37,281]

Wow, Krang. Extremely detailed post. Thanks for that!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I could be thinking of the wrong scene, too, haha. I had in my mind the one where Mace and Yoda and Obi-wan are riding through Coruscant in the gunship. If we're talking about the war room scene, then yeah, it's all from AOTC's "Thwarted Attempt." I just can't remember which scene the "plot to destroy the Jedi" line was spoken in...

It that's scene there - the war room. Sam Jackson spells out for the audience 'I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi!'

[Datameister 2,037]

Okay, yeah, it's all from "Thwarted Attempt", then.

[MrJosh 892]

Would be awesome if Lucas asked Williams to do a few rescores. Kind of like the extensions/changes that Howard Shore did with the EEs of LOTR. I know chances of that happening are 0% but man, I'd pay good $ for a set like that.

[Jilal 569]

EDIT: Never mind.

[Giftheck 916]

If I had a YouTube account (and for some reason YouTube did reactivate my old main account although I cannot access it) I would show you how I thought it would have gone (minus the content they cut after the Across the Stars segment). You're missing the clean opening found in the DS version of The Force Unleashed (although the quality is not good for the louder parts). I should also mention the DVD is, naturally, pitched wrong. You have to manually lower the pitch of material taken from the DVD.

I have reason to believe that the timpani hits at the beginning of Yoda Strikes Back actually belong in Dooku vs Obi-Wan - they're not an insert and they don't fit elsewhere, also they wouldn't be the only drum part of Dooku vs Obi-Wan to be tracked if I'm right. Despite the tracking of "Zam'sDirty Trick" in there, I think those drums go where they're placed there in the film.

[Jilal 569]

If I had a YouTube account (and for some reason YouTube did reactivate my old main account although I cannot access it) I would show you how I thought it would have gone (minus the content they cut after the Across the Stars segment). You're missing the clean opening found in the DS version of The Force Unleashed (although the quality is not good for the louder parts). I should also mention the DVD is, naturally, pitched wrong. You have to manually lower the pitch of material taken from the DVD.

I have reason to believe that the timpani hits at the beginning of Yoda Strikes Back actually belong in Dooku vs Obi-Wan - they're not an insert and they don't fit elsewhere, also they wouldn't be the only drum part of Dooku vs Obi-Wan to be tracked if I'm right. Despite the tracking of "Zam'sDirty Trick" in there, I think those drums go where they're placed there in the film.

Indeed, the beginning of my edit is wrong. I believe the bf2 music editor tackled some timpani hits over the beginning.

[Jilal 569]

Some days ago i read in an article about Star Wars: The Old Republic that it will contain John Williams' music, as well as music composed for the game (by Mark Griskey). Here's a gameplay video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyQKhNj7d9A

[Jonesy 55]

It's a great piece of news, I guess the game will contain unreleased music (I'm sure).

[Jilal 569]

Now let's hope they use an easy convertable sound format!

It seems we will have the quiet part from dooku vs obi-wan which was featured in bounty hunter.

[Jilal 569]

I just uploaded a video of the Obi-Wan vs Jango Fett fight on youtube, and it showed me this:

Your video, Obi-Wan Vs Jango Fett HD , may include content that is owned or administered by these entities:

* Entity: Warner Chappell Content Type: Musical Composition

Maybe Warner Chappell now has the rights to the music? Is this a sign that complete releases are going to be released?

[Giftheck 916]

They own the rights to all of the music of Star Wars, I think. I believe we have discussed this before in this thread.

[Faleel 5,333]

I just uploaded a video of the Obi-Wan vs Jango Fett fight on youtube, and it showed me this:

Your video, Obi-Wan Vs Jango Fett HD , may include content that is owned or administered by these entities:

* Entity: Warner Chappell Content Type: Musical Composition

Maybe Warner Chappell now has the rights to the music? Is this a sign that complete releases are going to be released?

Did it block it?