Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

'until' means that when the force theme starts, they stop?

At first i understood as if you meant that when the force theme comes, the drums start.

[Giftheck 916]

I've turned the volume as loud as it will go up in GoldWave (to about 500%) and it does indeed seem as though Williams mixed in the Taiko drums, but quieter - a lot quieter. There's a trumpet fanfare in the album that's not in the film version as well... but I'm not sure why it was omitted.

The Big Japanese Drum Part, I think this is separate from this taiko drum piece, and I believe the taiko drums were probably a suggestion by George Lucas - hence why taiko drums with the similar one-two rythm appear in They're Coming Around, and in Anakin's Dark Deeds. It was definitely recorded separately, and I think that the game files have it right as far as what they were supposed to sound like in the film only. It's a shame we don't have the missing brass section without those drums though, I wonder if somebody has thought of making a mockup for it.

2M1 was untitled by Williams, but there was a clip on the ROTS DVD, where Lucas stated:

Lucas: "It's not on here, it's not on there, I think you forgot to put a title on it. Since I was right, can I name that cue?"

Williams: "I wonder if it's actually true that there was not a title on that cue?"

So "Grievous and the Droids", as revealed on the Star Wars Hyperspace cue list, was probably the name George Lucas gave that cue - and this seems to be supported by the fact that 2M1 was the only cue to be left untitled.

3M8 - Was it decided whether this cue was called "Obi-Wan Faces Droids" or "Obi-Wan Faces Death"? I think the former sounds more likely, but that's just me.

Have we found out yet what any of the insert stuff in Attack of the Clones is yet? I'm talking of the 5M6 Insert (possibly already in the album version of the Conveyor Belt somewhere), and the 6M2 Sweetner (by any chance is this a statement of the Love Theme)

[Jilal 569]

'until' means that when the force theme starts, they stop?

At first i understood as if you meant that when the force theme comes, the drums start.

Yes, they stop when the force theme begins playing.

[Sido-Dyas 0]

The original version was retained in some places as a variation on the theme (e.g., the very first horn statement of the theme in the final version of the concert suite).

Just to clarify, are you referring to the very first statement of the theme in the opening seconds of track 3 on the soundtrack? That variation of the theme is actually heard throughout "The Boys Continue" rather than the "main" version. I thought it was said that cue was revised, but it seems to me like it was not. Maybe I am just misunderstanding things.

[Datameister 2,037]

The Big Japanese Drum Part, I think this is separate from this taiko drum piece, and I believe the taiko drums were probably a suggestion by George Lucas - hence why taiko drums with the similar one-two rythm appear in They're Coming Around, and in Anakin's Dark Deeds. It was definitely recorded separately, and I think that the game files have it right as far as what they were supposed to sound like in the film only. It's a shame we don't have the missing brass section without those drums though, I wonder if somebody has thought of making a mockup for it.

The taiko drums remain a bit of a mystery. We know that all the percussion heard in the film version of "Moving Things Along" was written by Williams, so clearly, those drums were part of his intention for the score, and because they were omitted from the album, we cannot rely on album versions to tell us what Williams wanted for the film. (We also know that they were recorded separately, of course. Most or all of the percussion in this score seems to have been recorded separately.) However, the 1...(2)...3...1...(2)...3...1... rhythm heard in the film version of "Boys Into Battle" AND in the film and OST versions of "They're Coming Around" are NOT in the sheet music at all. "Boys Into Battle" calls for big Japanese drums briefly at the beginning, but it's a different rhythm that can't be heard in the actual recordings, and that cuts out when the Force theme comes in, like Alexander said. And then there's "Heroes Collide", the film version of which contains all kinds of taiko stuff that doesn't really work musically, and that wasn't in the sheet music, and that Williams didn't use on the album, either...

Sooooooooo...they had big Japanese drums available because Williams called for them in at least two cues, and at some point, they also recorded that plodding triple-meter rhythm that got mixed into "They're Coming Around" and the film version of "Boys Into Battle." (And quietly into the album version, too.) Or maybe they just sampled the recording of that drum and didn't need to actually record that rhythm with the drum itself. Whether it was Williams' idea or not is unknown, but he was clearly sufficiently involved in the whole thing to include part of it in the album version of "They're Coming Around."

3M8 - Was it decided whether this cue was called "Obi-Wan Faces Droids" or "Obi-Wan Faces Death"? I think the former sounds more likely, but that's just me.

Both! One is on Williams' sketch, one is on the orchestrator's manuscript. (Can't remember which, but I think "Death" was on the sketch.) I prefer to use "Droids", but that one's really up to you.

Have we found out yet what any of the insert stuff in Attack of the Clones is yet? I'm talking of the 5M6 Insert (possibly already in the album version of the Conveyor Belt somewhere), and the 6M2 Sweetner (by any chance is this a statement of the Love Theme)

Those are still a complete mystery. Almost all the material we have is accounted for by other cues. The only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head are the big tutti minor chords overlaid into a few cues and the alternate percussion rhythm heard in the film version of the Coruscant chase sequence. "On the Conveyor Belt" is just the cues "Finding the Conveyor Belt" and "The Conveyor Belt" edited together correctly but with other edits in both. No inserts there. And we don't have any statements of the love theme that are unaccounted for, although the one heard in the final version of "Padme Falls" is an insert. Keep in mind that the mystery inserts are very, very short, based on the measure numbers in the cue list that PHOENIX posted.

The original version was retained in some places as a variation on the theme (e.g., the very first horn statement of the theme in the final version of the concert suite).

Just to clarify, are you referring to the very first statement of the theme in the opening seconds of track 3 on the soundtrack? That variation of the theme is actually heard throughout "The Boys Continue" rather than the "main" version. I thought it was said that cue was revised, but it seems to me like it was not. Maybe I am just misunderstanding things.

That's the one I'm referring to, yes...if I'm remembering everything correctly, which I think I am. (I don't really have access to my sheet music or soundtrack collections at the moment.) I don't remember which cues specifically were revised, but the revised melody line is the one you hear when the choir first comes in in the concert suite. That first big statement of the theme is a good example of the revised melody line, and the very first statement near the beginning of the track is a good example of the original version.

[Jilal 569]

I've turned the volume as loud as it will go up in GoldWave (to about 500%) and it does indeed seem as though Williams mixed in the Taiko drums, but quieter - a lot quieter. There's a trumpet fanfare in the album that's not in the film version as well... but I'm not sure why it was omitted.

The Big Japanese Drum Part, I think this is separate from this taiko drum piece, and I believe the taiko drums were probably a suggestion by George Lucas - hence why taiko drums with the similar one-two rythm appear in They're Coming Around, and in Anakin's Dark Deeds. It was definitely recorded separately, and I think that the game files have it right as far as what they were supposed to sound like in the film only. It's a shame we don't have the missing brass section without those drums though, I wonder if somebody has thought of making a mockup for it.

2M1 was untitled by Williams, but there was a clip on the ROTS DVD, where Lucas stated:

Lucas: "It's not on here, it's not on there, I think you forgot to put a title on it. Since I was right, can I name that cue?"

Williams: "I wonder if it's actually true that there was not a title on that cue?"

So "Grievous and the Droids", as revealed on the Star Wars Hyperspace cue list, was probably the name George Lucas gave that cue - and this seems to be supported by the fact that 2M1 was the only cue to be left untitled.

3M8 - Was it decided whether this cue was called "Obi-Wan Faces Droids" or "Obi-Wan Faces Death"? I think the former sounds more likely, but that's just me.

Have we found out yet what any of the insert stuff in Attack of the Clones is yet? I'm talking of the 5M6 Insert (possibly already in the album version of the Conveyor Belt somewhere), and the 6M2 Sweetner (by any chance is this a statement of the Love Theme)

Fanfare? Where?

[Jilal 569]

We have the clean ending for Chase Through Coruscant I, but we don't have the clean opening for the next part... or do we? I got it from the DVD of the film and crossfading the material seems to work quite well crossfaded into the cleaner material. But I also have a question. In BF2 we have an alternate version of the measures starting 7:52 of track 3, so which is the true piece?

Also, I had a thought about Boys into Battle... what if the low japanese drums which become louder in the film is how it starts? And then as the fighters race by we go into the rest of the piece as it appears in BF2 instead of how it jumps in later in the film... I say this because the opening sequence was supposed to have more battle in it, but Lucas cut it down, even though I know he filmed it.

In which BF2 file?

Ah, that can cause confusion - it's not a fraction. I know I wrote it like one, but in actual sheet music, they just appear as two numbers, one over the other, with no line between them. Like this:

The top number indicates how many beats there are per measure. So there are 3 beats per measure in the ROTS rhythm, and 5 in the LOTR rhythm. The bottom number just indicates which type of note constitutes one beat. The 4 stands for quarter note, which looks like this:

So if you've got one piece in 3/4 and one piece in 5/4, the only reason they share the 4 in common is because they both use quarter notes as beats.

But to make all this more complicated...I'm realizing now that "Boys Into Battle" is written in 3/2, not 3/4, and "They're Coming Around" probably was, too. But that really doesn't change the way the music sounds at all; the rhythms just get written a little differently. Not really worth explaining.

I think i understand it... With 3/4 as time signature, 3 quarter notes go into a measure. With 5/4 as a measure, 5 quarter notes go into a measure.

[Giftheck 916]

Fanfare? Where?

Album Track 1, at 1:55. This small, three note trumpet fanfare is absent from both the film and BF2 versions of the cue.

[Trent B 337]

Fanfare? Where?

Album Track 1, at 1:55. This small, three note trumpet fanfare is absent from both the film and F2 versions of the cue.

I totally never noticed that before. All though it's easy to do a mix/paste in the film version mix of the BF 2 files for that three note trumpet fanfare. I just did it and it worked perfectly.

[Giftheck 916]

This is what I've done with my edit too.

[Jilal 569]

here is a rundown of Jedi Power Battles to add in the first post:

Track 1

----------

1 SFX

2 Anakin Defeats Sebulba (Perc.)

3 Tentacles

4 Tentacles (Alt.- First Run)

5 Tentacles (ending)

6 The Armies Face Off

Track 2

----------

1 DOTF Instr.

2 SFX

3 Darth and Qui-Gon/The Great Dual start

4 The Droid Invasion ending

5 Droid Fight (Alt.- First Run)

6 The Droid Invasion ending

7 SFX

Track 3

----------

1 The Race Begins

2 Anakin Defeats Sebulba (Perc.)

3 SFX

4 Escape from Naboo (Perc.)

5 DOTF Instr.

6 Gas Leak

7 The Droid Invasion ending

8 Gas Leak ending

9 Gas Leak

10 SFX

Track 4

----------

1 Anakin Takes Off (Alt.- First Run)

2 Take To Your Ships (Alt.- First Run)

3 Moving Forward (First Run)

4 Laser Fight March

5 SFX

6 Escape From Naboo (Perc.)

7 DOTF Instr.

8 SFX

Track 5

----------

1 Droid Fight

2 SFX

3 Moving Forward

4 Droid Fight

5 SFX

Track 6

----------

1 Theed Palace Arrival

2 Queen Amidala

3 Theed Palace Arrival

4 Queen Amidala

5 SFX

6 The Queen and Group land on Naboo

7 Forest Mist

8 The Armies Face Off

9 SFX

Track 7

----------

1 Forest Mist

2 The Armies Face Off

3 You're Under Arrest

4 Theed Palace Arrival

5 The Arrival

6 SFX

7 Tentacles (Alt.- First Run)

8 SFX

Track 8

----------

1 Droid Fight

2 The Queen and Group land on Naboo

3 Droid Fight

4 The Queen and Group land on Naboo

5 The Droid Battle

6 SFX

7 The Droid Invasion

8 SFX

[Jay 37,322]

3M8 - Was it decided whether this cue was called "Obi-Wan Faces Droids" or "Obi-Wan Faces Death"? I think the former sounds more likely, but that's just me.

Both! One is on Williams' sketch, one is on the orchestrator's manuscript. (Can't remember which, but I think "Death" was on the sketch.) I prefer to use "Droids", but that one's really up to you.

Williams' original sketch clearly says "Obi-WAN faces Droids", while Conrad Pope's orchestrated manuscript clearly says "Obi-Wan faces Death". Then JoAnn Kane's breakdown of cue titles by recording date says "Obi-Wan Fares Droids"

[crocodile 7,990]

It's true. We experience the slow and painful death of readership...

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

One wonders is they also make mistakes transcribing the musical notes...

[Jilal 569]

One wonders is they also make mistakes transcribing the musical notes...

They sometimes do. I remember a video in which JW said to horn player David Pyatt to change something on the score. "That higher F shouldn't be there. Change it."

[Jilal 569]

Hey guys,

A looooooooooooong time ago i uploaded a video to youtube: Star Wars 1977 Opening Crawl

Now i get this message from YouTube:

Dear StarWarsFan786,

Your video, Star Wars 1977 Opening Crawl, may have content that is owned or licensed by Warner Chappell.

No action is required on your part; however, if you're interested in learning how this affects your video, please visit the Content ID Matches section of your account for more information.

Sincerely,

- The YouTube Team

If this already was owned by Warner Chappell, wouldn't they have told me this earlier?

[Giftheck 916]

Nope. It may only be recently that they may have excercised their rights to the music on YouTube. They claimed that Warner Chapell owned the music when I uploaded the TPM spare End Credits to my old account.

[Jilal 569]

How do you assemble 6M5 New?

[Datameister 2,037]

It's helpful to include the title of the film when referring to a cue number. But I take it you're referring to the cue from ROTS, which is the reprise of Duel of the Fates. The sketch for that cue was ostensibly cut and pasted from TPM sketches, probably based on instructions from Williams, and it pretty much goes exactly as it does in the film. There are just a few parts that got looped or extended in the film that aren't written that way in the sketch - specifically, the ostinato in the beginning, and the big buildup before the choir comes in with the big "KORAH MATAH", sans orchestra.

Oh, and the last measure is confusing...it looks like they copied the wrong bar or something.

[Jilal 569]

It's helpful to include the title of the film when referring to a cue number. But I take it you're referring to the cue from ROTS, which is the reprise of Duel of the Fates. The sketch for that cue was ostensibly cut and pasted from TPM sketches, probably based on instructions from Williams, and it pretty much goes exactly as it does in the film. There are just a few parts that got looped or extended in the film that aren't written that way in the sketch - specifically, the ostinato in the beginning, and the big buildup before the choir comes in with the big "KORAH MATAH", sans orchestra.

Oh, and the last measure is confusing...it looks like they copied the wrong bar or something.

It's just a little bit confusing... When i listen to edits of this cue, they seem to use a 22khz version of the ostinato. Is that from the Obi-Wan game or from the Racer game?

[King Mark 3,626]

It's been a while since we had a videogame with new music

[Datameister 2,037]

It's just a little bit confusing... When i listen to edits of this cue, they seem to use a 22khz version of the ostinato. Is that from the Obi-Wan game or from the Racer game?

I'm not sure what you mean by a 22 kHz version, and I'm not sure what edit you're listening to...for mine, I just used the TPM OST and edited it to match it the way it was in the film. (I'll probably redo it to match the sketch at some point.)

[King Mark 3,626]

Nope. It may only be recently that they may have excercised their rights to the music on YouTube. They claimed that Warner Chapell owned the music when I uploaded the TPM spare End Credits to my old account.

YouTube is getting more useless by the day

[Jilal 569]

Nope. It may only be recently that they may have excercised their rights to the music on YouTube. They claimed that Warner Chapell owned the music when I uploaded the TPM spare End Credits to my old account.

YouTube is getting more useless by the day

Lol

[King Mark 3,626]

it's only a matter of time before a big corporation manages to copyright cat videos and yank all of these out too

[Jilal 569]

6M7 The Boys Continue isolated score:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt5XxgB8cT8

It's been a while since we had a videogame with new music

A new one is coming soon... And with new unreleased music (according to the video game exhibitions' 'walktroughs' of the game (SW: The Old Republic).

[Jilal 569]

Who is 'jkm s'? He is listed as the orchestrator of 7M8 End Credits.

[Jay 37,322]

JoAnn Kane Music Service

[Jilal 569]

JoAnn Kane Music Service

Oh yes, ... I think they assembled the end credits from previous sheet music and then combined it. That's why there never was a handwritten version of End Credits i think.

[Jay 37,322]

Exactly

[Giftheck 916]

It's just a little bit confusing... When i listen to edits of this cue, they seem to use a 22khz version of the ostinato. Is that from the Obi-Wan game or from the Racer game?

I'm not sure what you mean by a 22 kHz version, and I'm not sure what edit you're listening to...for mine, I just used the TPM OST and edited it to match it the way it was in the film. (I'll probably redo it to match the sketch at some point.)

There is the full first two minutes (more or less) of the instrumental in the Galactic Battleground Clon Campaigns files, and as far as I am aware, it's CD quality, and this is the one I use.

Nope. It may only be recently that they may have excercised their rights to the music on YouTube. They claimed that Warner Chapell owned the music when I uploaded the TPM spare End Credits to my old account.

YouTube is getting more useless by the day

Indeed.

JoAnn Kane Music Service

Oh yes, ... I think they assembled the end credits from previous sheet music and then combined it. That's why there never was a handwritten version of End Credits i think.

I assume the bridging transitions between each suite were either improvised or written as 'in-between' pages, then?

[Jilal 569]

The transitions were sketched. Then JKMS engraved the segments from previous tracks (EC from ANH, Revenge of Sith, The Throne Room).

[Datameister 2,037]

The transitions were sketched.

And orchestrated.

[Jilal 569]

This is a good video that shows where the "Anakin marches up temple with 501st legion" scene was originally put:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwJLaXftzNg

GoodMusician made it i think.

[Krang 1]

The problem is that it contradicts the Making of Episode III online supplement.

Thursday October 14th, 2004 (second day of spotting for the score with Lucas, Williams, Wannberg, Burtt, and Barton)

"They then tackle a series of scenes that begins with Anakin leading hundreds of clone troopers into the Jedi Temple, then segues into the murder of various Jedi throughout the galaxy. Williams suggests marching sounds and music.

Listening to the temp track for the scene taking place on Cato Neimoidia, Lucas comments, “I really like the fact that it goes into this choir,” as Plo Koon is blasted out of the sky. “It’s certainly the way to go,” Williams agrees, and asks, “How close are we to the killing of the children?” Lucas says that they’re not far off, as Barton stops the movie. The director explains that the music during that scene should continue into the scene with Padmé in her apartment. “Let’s keep the chorus with an orchestration, or just strings,” he says. “It’s almost as if she’s watching the murders [as they] happen. She’s crying because Anakin’s turned to evil.” “I like the idea that she’s intuiting what’s happening,” Williams says.

So as of October 14th of 2004 it appears as though Anakin marching up the temple steps was placed before the montage of Jedi deaths. Also the scene of the Jedi being killed on the speeder bike wasn't filmed until January 2005. Three months after they spotted the music and only weeks before the score had to go to print. The music during that scene in the film is edited and the music in the video above doesn't have the usual "lift" just as the Jedi dies.

[Jilal 569]

Did anyone do a rundown of the pc rip of TFU1?

[Sido-Dyas 0]

The problem is that it contradicts the Making of Episode III online supplement.

I read that too, Krang. However, it is possible that the sequence moved back and forth after the spotting sessions. We don't have enough information right now to know for certain, but I have a theory based on what we know and what was speculated a few pages back in this thread.

The first cut Williams saw for the spotting session in October 2004 might have been a version containing the deaths of Luminara Unduli and Shaak Ti (and perhaps others).

Then perhaps sometime between the time of the spotting session and the time Williams composed "Lament", a second cut was made where some deaths were removed. They may have moved the temple march to the middle of the montage as a result. This would be the cut Williams referred to when composing the music. The battle shots on Utapau might have not been locked down, so it was decided to use tracked music for them.

Then in January 2005, Stass Allie's death was filmed, resulting in a third cut. This is where they might have moved the temple march back to the beginning of the sequence (with tracked music). I speculate it was decided to record the piece against the second cut and then edit it to fit the final film.

If something like this did happen, then my guess is that the original temple march music can be heard on track 4 of the OST from approximately 1:30 - 2:04. I don't have a guess as to how the whole cue would have looked, but I believe that section is a good guess for the march due to the music's location and how it is played in that part. The variation of the motif in this section is also very similar to how it's played in "Anakin Changes".

[Jilal 569]

I'm pretty sure the big japanese drums in They're Coming Around where recorded separately. The film has a snippet of the cue without the drums when the rockets behind Anakin explode.

[Giftheck 916]

Yes, they were. That's clear because in the album they were quieter in the latter portion of the track than they are in the games/film.

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, as we've discussed repeatedly, pretty much all the percussion in ROTS seems to have been recorded separately.

[Jilal 569]

Yeah, as we've discussed repeatedly, pretty much all the percussion in ROTS seems to have been recorded separately.

Yes... The percussion in 2M1 wasnt recorded seperately, according to the recording sessions footage.

[Giftheck 916]

Some percussion would have been recorded alongside the main bulk of music, most would have been recorded separately, I assume.

[Trent B 337]

Some percussion would have been recorded alongside the main bulk of music, most would have been recorded separately, I assume.

ggtuck is correct.

90% of the percussion was recorded separately. Grant some drums as heard in "They're Coming Around" were recorded alongside the orchestra as ggtuck stated.

It was reported by Hyperspace (StarWars.com) when the score sessions took place that most of the percussion was recorded separately.

[Datameister 2,037]

Yes... The percussion in 2M1 wasnt recorded seperately, according to the recording sessions footage.

Which footage are you referring to?

Grant some drums as heard in "They're Coming Around" were recorded alongside the orchestra as ggtuck stated.

Why do you think those drums were recorded with the rest of the orchestra?

[Trent B 337]

Why do you think those drums were recorded with the rest of the orchestra?

There were some that sounded like they were timed perfectly to have been recorded with the orchestra instead of separately. If that makes any sense...

[Datameister 2,037]

I'm not sure what you mean...keep in mind that when recording the percussion separately, they would have been perfectly matching the tempo of the orchestral recording so that they could be overlaid with the correct timing.

[Jim Ware 526]

I'm not sure what you mean...keep in mind that when recording the percussion separately, they would have been perfectly matching the tempo of the orchestral recording so that they could be overlaid with the correct timing.

Exactly. Click-tracks were used extensively during the recording of Sith.

[Jilal 569]

Yes... The percussion in 2M1 wasnt recorded seperately, according to the recording sessions footage.

Which footage are you referring to?

The footage in "Endlessly Compelling: The Music of Episode III".

Edit: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: I hate YouTube! SME has blocked the video in my country!

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

and the musiciand could listen to the full orchestra recording in their headphones?

(i dont know, just a guess)

[Jilal 569]

and the musiciand could listen to the full orchestra recording in their headphones?

(i dont know, just a guess)

I don't know... Most players seem to wear headphones, including the conductor (in this case JW).