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Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)


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I think the finished version works better, for two reasons. One, its more focused. Lucas mercilessly threw out material partaining to the establishment of the rebellion, the resolution of the mystery

Almost seems like it was made to fit with the fanfare bit of Flag Parade to me

I found something rather interesting. Not really important at all, but interesting. I've been going through my rip of Jedi: Fallen Order (I've only examined a handful of files thus far). There appears

what's that

Another way to block your bootlegs if you upload them on the cloud?

BMI handles music rights which must be recognized to the proper holders (composers, publishers, performers). It's tricky complicated stuff. To be properly recognized of music rights (especially in case of license for TV ads, commercials and media in general), the title of the song should match with the record held within the inventory. I was reading an article about this matter just a few days ago:

Music Industry plagued by retitling of songs.

Millions missing in unreported artist royalties. New report reveals prolific problems with royalties in the music licensing landscape for artists and companies.

March 13th 2013: A new infographic report “State of the Music Licensing Industry: 2013” just published by The Music Licensing Directory www.musiclicensingdirectory.com provides alarming new data that shows an increasingly problematic music licensing landscape for recording artists, labels and publishers.

The new report provides analysis based upon detailed research into companies that license music from independent artists into film, television, games and advertising.

“We have analyzed over 1500 music licensing companies globally, allowing for an accurate assessment of the market place and providing valued insight for artists and the industry.” said Winston Giles, CEO & Founder of The Music Licensing Directory.

The new report highlights that whilst the Music Licensing Industry continues to grow as a multi-billion dollar segment of the global music industry, there remains some unhealthy practices, most notably the prolific practice of retitling. Retitling is where a music licensing company re-registers a song under a different title with a performing rights organization (PRO), allowing for the royalties to be separately tracked when that song is licensed for a specific third party use. This allows the music licensing company to control and earn a significant share of the royalties collected.

The report states that 40% of music licensing companies retitle works for a share in royalties garnered from sync placements.

“The practice of retitling is considered unhealthy for artists and for the music licensing industry. It can be very problematic, as one piece of music with many titles is confusing and can lead to multiple parties claiming ownership of the same work and ultimately artists not receiving royalties owed, if at all.” stated Giles. “Music supervisors are becoming more and more reluctant to accept retitled works, and some of the bigger studios and companies are now refusing to work with retitled works in their productions.”

The practice of retitling may soon come to an end as a new technology called “Digital Fingerprinting” has emerged that should make retitling no longer an effective practice. Every individual piece of music contains a unique “fingerprint” and no two tracks are digitally identical, meaning that when music is broadcast it can be automatically detected and identified and the broadcast details recorded. This will be much more effective and accurate than physical cue sheets, which is the current method of reporting. Cue sheets are a highly ineffective and manual reporting process that leads to a significant amount of inaccuracies and missing artist royalties. Digital fingerprinting will make things too difficult for companies that retitle tracks as a unique piece of music can only have one unique ownership.

“Some royalty collection societies have begun the implementation of digital fingerprinting, however there remains no industry standard and the adaption away from archaic cue sheets to the new technology has been very slow.” said Giles. “There are suggestions from within the industry from companies like Tunesat, who claim that up to 80% of songs are not reported properly. When you consider that in the USA the collection societies collect over 2 Billion dollars annually - there is potentially a lot of money owed to artists going missing.”

View the full report: http://www.musiclicensingdirectory.com/state-of-the-music-licensing-industry-2013

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I was listening to the cue from Star Wats Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, 1M3 Boys Into Battle,

and I noticed a considerable difference between the original version heard on the album and the film version.

At 1:55 of the track (0:00 to 1:16 is 1M2 Star Wars Main Titles), the three trumpet blasts are played, as originally recorded.

In the film version, however, the three trumpet blasts are not heard. Why is this?

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I was listening to the cue from Star Wats Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, 1M3 Boys Into Battle,

and I noticed a considerable difference between the original version heard on the album and the film version.

At 1:55 of the track (0:00 to 1:16 is 1M2 Star Wars Main Titles), the three trumpet blasts are played, as originally recorded.

In the film version, however, the three trumpet blasts are not heard. Why is this?

The version used in the games is the film version. I could be wrong but I think the album version is a different take. Yes the percussion dubs are not there on the album but still....

Someone more suitable who has the sheet music could probably answer this more correctly.

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I have a mix up I need clearing up. What is the name of the cue that scores the scene where Anakin and Padmé part ways before he heads toward

Mustafar to kill the Separatists? I believe it is the second part of 5m5 News of the Attack, but I want reassurance.

The next cue, 5m6 Moving Things Along, is "Enter Lord Vader" on the album, right?



Never mind, I answered my own question.

5m5 News of the Attack is the cue that scores the scene I was talking about. I confused it with the second part of

5m4 Swimming, Droids, and Yoda Farewell, the scene where Obi-Wan escapes from Utapau and is contacted by Bail Organa.

Correct me if I am wrong, please.

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I have a mix up I need clearing up. What is the name of the cue that scores the scene where Anakin and Padmé part ways before he heads toward

Mustafar to kill the Separatists? I believe it is the second part of 5m5 News of the Attack, but I want reassurance.

The next cue, 5m6 Moving Things Along, is "Enter Lord Vader" on the album, right?

Never mind, I answered my own question.

5m5 News of the Attack is the cue that scores the scene I was talking about. I confused it with the second part of

5m4 Swimming, Droids, and Yoda Farewell, the scene where Obi-Wan escapes from Utapau and is contacted by Bail Organa.

Correct me if I am wrong, please.

"News Of The Attack" is one whole cue and is about 2:04 and that part you're asking about is part of that cue.

"Moving Things Along" is "Enter Lord Vader" on the album. The version that appears in the games with the percussion dubs I was told is correct, the album version is not.

For "Swimming, Droids, Yoda Farewell" you are correct on that.

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The album version of Moving Things Along (Enter Lord Vader) is as recorded, only with one small micro-edit and no percussion.

The percussion was recorded separately. I like either version.

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The percussion was definitely recorded seperately for the whole score.

However, I was told the sheet music indicated that the version WITH the percussion (for Moving Things Along) is the intended one. So basically the album version is not quite the right one.

I can't read sheet music but I was definitely told by a few other people who can.



I'm going to be sending you a bit of a lengthy PM...

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Anyone know how many taiko drums they had for ROTS, and what sizes? Were there overdubs?

All the taikos were overdubbed, I don't know how many we're used. Sounds like at least three of slightly different sizes but all fairly large.

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I have a question:

In Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, between The Big Army and The Droid Battle, was there a cue that scored the duel between

Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Darth Maul, right after Anakin takes off (ending of The Big Army)? I know in the film that a section of Duel of the Fates

scores the sequence, but I want to know if an original cue was done for that sequence?

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The beginning of The Droid Battle scores the scene where Padmé, Panaka, and the Naboo Guards are trying to get past the Droids, right after the

first showing of the lightsaber duel.

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I am not assuming, I have seen the film and listened to John Williams' phenomenal score so many times to know this.

The beginning of The Droid Battle does not score the scene of the lightsaber duel that takes place right after Anakin takes off in the fighter.

It does not fit the sequence. The beginning of The Droid Battle scores the sequence immediately following the scene where the

lightsaber duel moves from the ship hanger into that grand control room (whatever it is called).

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The point is that where music plays in the final film does is not necessarily was it was originally intended to go. In the case of The Phantom Menace especially, the final act of the film was edited and re-edited by George Lucas multiple times, so the cues originally intended by Williams got chopped up and moved around and track into other spots all over the place.

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I know that, but that still does not fit the lightsaber duel sequence.

However, it does fit the scene after that, where Padmé, Panaka, and the Naboo Guards are blocked by an army of Droids. Originally intended, then

it goes into the shot of Anakin heading for the Battleship that controls the Droids

(followed by the sequence of the Gungan army continuing to fight the Droid army, etc.).

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Speaking of droid battle, the cue heard on the soundtrack I don't think is the original version williams wrote. If you look at the sheet music from the Star Wars in concert display its obvious that after the introduction it's completely different except for one section that's heard later in the cue. The version on e soundtrack I think is possibly a concert version or an extremely well edited version of that cue, and possibly others.

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No, it is the original version. It is not a concert piece.



I have not seen the sheet music you are referring to, but

I think that displays an early version of the cue that was probably revised before recording began.

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Well if this was a change before recording it would be like a 20 page insert which seems rather unlikely. To help prove my point, :23 to :36 is tracked from 1:48 to 2:01 with some percussion dialed out. It's probably not a concert piece but its definitely not the intended version

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dylan345, I listened to those two sections of The Droid Battle that you pointed out really carefully,

and those are two different performances, two sections of the same piece. It flows smoothly.

Maybe that sheet music you refer to is a concert version of the Droid March that has not been released yet.



I am very confident that the complete scores to

Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace,

Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith will be released someday in the near future.

The Maestro would be up for it; the only thing putting that on hold is the company that owns the music.

That is the case with any film score.

A lot of John Williams's phenomenal music has already been released in complete form, if not expanded.

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After all these years we don't 100% know what was intended for The Battle of Naboo

Unless the recording sessions surface or it's released in a comprehensive form we'll never know

Or if the sketches leak. In terms of understanding Williams' original intentions for what would fit where, that would really be the ideal situation, because his sketches include frequent indications of what's going on in the film, as well as directions of which cues should segue where.

dylan345, I listened to those two sections of The Droid Battle that you pointed out really carefully,

and those are two different performances, two sections of the same piece. It flows smoothly.

Maybe that sheet music you refer to is a concert version of the Droid March that has not been released yet.

I am very confident that the complete scores to

Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace,

Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith will be released someday in the near future.

The Maestro would be up for it; the only thing putting that on hold is the company that owns the music.

That is the case with any film score.

A lot of John Williams's phenomenal music has already been released in complete form, if not expanded.

Williams is a fan of typical album arrangements, though - he's never been a big champion of the complete film score release, even as some of his scores have become rallying points for that cause. Even though he's the one who wrote all this remarkable music, he's not the one to look toward if you want complete releases.

Now that Disney owns Lucasfilm AND has a deal with Intrada, I'd say the best thing we can hope for is a set of complete, remastered albums from Intrada, with little or no involvement from Williams. I'd be (VERY pleasantly) surprised if these were to happen anytime particularly soon, though.

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dylan345, I listened to those two sections of The Droid Battle that you pointed out really carefully,

and those are two different performances, two sections of the same piece. It flows smoothly.

Maybe that sheet music you refer to is a concert version of the Droid March that has not been released yet.

I am very confident that the complete scores to

Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace,

Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith will be released someday in the near future.

The Maestro would be up for it; the only thing putting that on hold is the company that owns the music.

That is the case with any film score.

A lot of John Williams's phenomenal music has already been released in complete form, if not expanded.

You can see the sheet music by googling "droid battle sheet music." It's not a concert suite, it has a slate number. I've spoken to Conrad Pope himself, he orchestrated this cue by hand, and he confirmed this is the real version and the one heard in films and soundtracks is not. I don't know to what degree it is different but it is most definitely not the real 6M5 Droid Battle.

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Hmm...interesting. Well, the cue in the soundtrack is not edited, that is for sure.

Maybe it is a concert arrangement that was chosen in favor of the original sketch seen on the sheet music you point out.

Hey, I love album arrangements. I love the way the Maestro approaches the limitations of a CD that can hold up to 76 minutes if

music. It is exactly like a concert performance, which I really enjoy.

Also, the expanded releases that Mr. Williams was involved with

turned out to be of excellent quality (Jaws, Close Encounters of the Third Lind, E.T., Indiana Jones, and Hook, to name a few.)

Possibly, the problem of not including all the music from the Indiana Jones films stems from cost. We have most of the music.

With Hook, some cues have to be preserved from the film stems because the master tracks to those cues were probably lost,

otherwise they would have come from the same source as the rest of the tracks.

I am not complaining though.

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By the way, that one rendition of the opening to Duel of the Fates:

are you guys sure that was not recorded as an intro. to The Great Duel?

If you look in the deleted scenes documentary on the DVD, they show unused footage of the lightsaber duel that leads into what is seen

in the film. It fits the scene very well with the unused footage added into the sequence.

Not to mention that the opening rendition blends in perfectly with the rest of the cue.

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In the same documentary you can hear them discussing whether to record a 'choirless' version of End Credits II and while Lucas vetoes the idea, given that choirless versions of Duel of the Fates have been performed with the brass replacing the choir, it wouldn't surprise me if it was something Williams opted to try out.

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Has anybody given that section of sheet music we've seen a spin to see if it can be compared to anything we already have?

The three pages that were on display are interesting. The first page is note-for-note identical to what we hear on the OST, after the initial Darth Maul music from earlier in the score. The first two measures of page 2 look like what hear next, too, but after that, it diverges. The material is similar, definitely - it uses the same rhythmic feel, orchestration, and melodic ideas, but it's not what comes next in the OST, UE, or film. I wish I had a computer that could do mockups right now so I could give it a shot.

One thing that's interesting is that the last measure of page 3 is quite similar to the fourth measure on page 1. The fourth measure on page 1 corresponds to the final moment of music heard on the OST but not on the UE (those three introductory timpani booms). So one possibility is that page 4 (which we haven't seen) starts the material we hear on the OST and UE. In other words, if this is true, the OST would use measures 1-4 and then cut to page 4 right after that timpani feature.

In any case, I'm still just gonna wait until complete sheet music eventually leaks before I try to do an edit of this score. There are just too many passages like this that are full of questions, and I've grown tired of making edits that are based on conjecture and guesswork.

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ggctuk, I am not referring to the instrumental brass opening of Duel of the Fates or End Credits;

the discussion between Lucas and the Maestro was shown in the Making Of documentary, NOT the deleted scenes documentary.

I am referring to the choral introduction with the five deep brass notes in it.

The one that starts The Great Duel. I am asking whether or not it is in fact the start of that cue, recorded separately.

Please read my last post, carefully.

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I think we can be certain that "The Great Dual [sic]" begins exactly as heard in the documentary, with that very short and choir-less intro. Sheet music hasn't leaked for that cue, but you can see part of the first page of the Violin II part in one of the DVD features. There's no room in there for the chorus/brass intro you're talking about. That must have been part of another cue, an insert, an alternate intro, or the like.

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I personally think it was meant to be an insert for "The Big Army", perhaps in the same manner they used the orchestral intro for DOTF there.

Has anybody given that section of sheet music we've seen a spin to see if it can be compared to anything we already have?

The three pages that were on display are interesting. The first page is note-for-note identical to what we hear on the OST, after the initial Darth Maul music from earlier in the score. The first two measures of page 2 look like what hear next, too, but after that, it diverges. The material is similar, definitely - it uses the same rhythmic feel, orchestration, and melodic ideas, but it's not what comes next in the OST, UE, or film. I wish I had a computer that could do mockups right now so I could give it a shot.

One thing that's interesting is that the last measure of page 3 is quite similar to the fourth measure on page 1. The fourth measure on page 1 corresponds to the final moment of music heard on the OST but not on the UE (those three introductory timpani booms). So one possibility is that page 4 (which we haven't seen) starts the material we hear on the OST and UE. In other words, if this is true, the OST would use measures 1-4 and then cut to page 4 right after that timpani feature.

In any case, I'm still just gonna wait until complete sheet music eventually leaks before I try to do an edit of this score. There are just too many passages like this that are full of questions, and I've grown tired of making edits that are based on conjecture and guesswork.

How odd that the video game versions also omit this part. The only full representation of the cue (aside from the OST) was in Jedi Power Battles and it corroborates the album version.

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Perhaps (if my theory about the as-wriitten structure of the piece is correct) the film was re-edited after the cue was written but before it was recorded, and they simply omitted those bars while performing it. There's precedent for that in other scores, although usually it's just a measure or two at most, not half a dozen.

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When I met with Conrad Pope unfortunately he had just put all of his Star Wars music into storage earlier that week. He's working on organizing his library. What a huge disappointment that was!

I don't think it was edited at the podium, you can hear hear a tiny hint of those woodwind runs at the end the first page but eyre mostly covered up by the tracked timpani and percussion.

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Same with the two sections I pointed out in 6M5 Droid Battle, those two sections are definetely the same. It's just not like Williams to write two sections in one cue that are EXACTLY the same other than some dialed out percussion and tracked timpani notes.

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