Jump to content

Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows Part 1 by Alexandre Desplat


Josh500
 Share

Recommended Posts

That only works if you are the composer. I've been wishing for great scores for the past decade and only a few composers have managed to accomplish that.

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Referring to the music: Shame what we got as composers, directors after Williams went... so many possibilities for an all time musical masterpiece and everyone blew it so far

What a relief that not all composers are so self focused and egoistic, i think i would gladly take David Arnold instead of Desplat anytime for the last Potter.

But honestly, I can't imagine David Arnold handling Williams' theme(s) well, I just can't. Excuse me for not finding a better expression, but Arnold's sound doesn't have the dignity Williams' themes need.

As far as the chance for an all time masterpiece is concerned, the composers are not as much to blame as the studio. In retrospect, it basically all went up in flames once David Yates was hired.

They should have realised already during the scoring process of Order Of The Phoenix hat Nicholas Hooper was "up to no good".

They also chose the most unlikely people for the job, what did we expect? Not every obscure scoring choice produces a Lord Of The Rings.

So it didn't become a music masterpiece, but at least it will finish on a high note. Look at the upside, it could have been worse. Much worse. Yates might as well have insisted on Hooper staying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be horrified if somehow we found out that hooper read these forums...

You can add just about every film composer to that list, old and new. No one is spared!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually it's Tribute now.

Yeah that is correct but Morgan and Stromberg are known for their recordings for the Naxos' Marco Polo label. And those two guys are probably the few who do not get their share of the animus on the MB because they are just not so well known despite their valiant and important work restoring and recording classic film music. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be horrified if somehow we found out that hooper read these forums...

You can add just about every film composer to that list, old and new. No one is spared!

Does that include deceased ones?

Because, if I were a ghost and had the opportunity to travel through time and space in a heartbeat, the last place to go were JWfan's message boards.

I'd probably be haunting Williams' house.

Or Hooper's :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually want to hear the unreleased tracks as soon as possible.

Anyone else as curious as I am what the end credits will sound like? Surely not as jarring a piece of trash as the Weasley Stomp?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Referring to the music: Shame what we got as composers, directors after Williams went... so many possibilities for an all time musical masterpiece and everyone blew it so far

What a relief that not all composers are so self focused and egoistic, i think i would gladly take David Arnold instead of Desplat anytime for the last Potter.

Can you at least wait a couple of weeks until we can judge it from the full score?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I just gave it a first listen. I'm not as immediately enthused as I thought I might be from the samples, although I think multiple listens will probably be needed for a more educated decision. My immediate thoughts agree with some, that the lack of any unifying themes leave it as more a cerebral work, however there are some impressive moments, with 'Farewell To Dobby' being an incredible - and very Williams - cue, which, after listening to the album, I listened to about five times in a row. Will wait and see how I feel after a few more listens, and after seeing how the entire score works in the film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Referring to the music: Shame what we got as composers, directors after Williams went... so many possibilities for an all time musical masterpiece and everyone blew it so far

What a relief that not all composers are so self focused and egoistic, i think i would gladly take David Arnold instead of Desplat anytime for the last Potter.

Can you at least wait a couple of weeks until we can judge it from the full score?

Seriously. David Arnold is better cause he's gonna reuse the HGW's theme!!!!!! I mean, he did say only to bookend the film, which is exactly what will happen with HP!!!! DESPLAT SUCKS ASS!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Truer words never spoken.

Astounded at some of the attitudes being thrown around here. Especially that Desplat is egotistic for not using someone else's music. Because of course it's egotistic to want to be original and approach a project in your own way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And you guys wonder why more film composers don't chime in on these forums? Some of you guys are really nasty. And you need to get your frustration/aggression out in a more constructive manner. Might I suggest martial arts?

I have been listening to Desplat's score over and over and I think there are plenty of Williamsisms- the high woodwind writing doubled in octaves is a Williams staple, especially with those chromatic licks/flourishes. The brass voicings in the orchestration on the action cues totally evokes Williams to me. And I hear quotes from Williams' Potter all over the place although perhaps it's more subtle for some listeners to pick up on. In the first 4 cues alone I hear the beginning of Hedwig's Theme and Harry's theme, and I'm not even looking out for them. I've mostly listened to this score while on the road during the day so it's not as if I'm pouring over it with a fine tooth comb.

Well, I just gave it a first listen. I'm not as immediately enthused as I thought I might be from the samples, although I think multiple listens will probably be needed for a more educated decision. My immediate thoughts agree with some, that the lack of any unifying themes leave it as more a cerebral work, however there are some impressive moments, with 'Farewell To Dobby' being an incredible - and very Williams - cue, which, after listening to the album, I listened to about five times in a row. Will wait and see how I feel after a few more listens, and after seeing how the entire score works in the film.

Good post Charlie and nice observations. I'm all good with people who don't care for Desplat's style- I value Mark Olivarez's opinion on scores as well as Erik Woods but we differ in opinion on Desplat. What I don't think is called for is the kind of vitriol that we've seen on this thread and the one on FSM where people are almost wishing eternal damnation on a composer just because he didn't do a cookie cutter cut-and-paste score based on Williams' original. It's not arrogance to want to try to provide a film that has moved well past the tone of the original with complimentary music. I find more than a few tracks "magical" sounding with Impressionist chords (whole tone scales altered) and fluid orchestration. I think Desplat has really stretched past his comfort zone and given us something to listen to over and over again. But that's just me. And clearly Charlie too. But I must side with Brigdens because that's also my family lineage so there you go. :spiny:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I don't think is called for is the kind of vitriol that we've seen on this thread and the one on FSM where people are almost wishing eternal damnation on a composer just because he didn't do a cookie cutter cut-and-paste score based on Williams' original.

Are we even reading the same thread...? :spiny: I read some obvious tongue-in-cheek bashing a few pages back, but from I understand most here are pretty content with Desplat's effort and hope he will end up scoring DH part 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah, this time there are posters who mean it. Thanks, Fiery Angel, for your insights. Have been able to resist listening to it yet, but the samples I've heard sound incredible promising. Can't wait until the movie and the CD!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why don't you accept different opinions, why don't you discuss. You always cite the same arguments in support of Desplat's abandoning of continuity and ignore the arguments against it.

And if for example i try to explain my problem with that approach you declare me as extreme JW fanboy.. that's not fair

Maybe you should read my posts some pages ago. I help you with that and put my problems with Desplat's approach in this post again so that you don't have to look for it. If you again ignore my points it proves to me that you don't want a serious discussion at all.

(EDIT: The made up percentage numbers are just used to let you understand my point, nothing more ....)

1) Desplat, Hooper and Doyle in my opinion seem narrow minded. They could do 90% own stuff and 10% of established "other peoples music" material and they still would satisfy almost everyone. Obviously even 90 percent new stuff seems not enough for these guys, they want 98 percent own stuff and because the studio requires Hedwig's theme they use it in 2% of the score.

(The percentage numbers are just my guess)

Why not deliver some treats to the fans by rearranging some old themes instead of scrapping all, and doing as if the former films dont exist? These composers or directors therefore seem to be pure egoists!

(and thats an observation everyone can make just by looking at the facts. This observation is propably a little "in your face" but i think if composers read these boards they will cope with a little critizism. They are free to post here maybe using a pseudonym or even their real name to discuss these things if they want)

2) Why are you still saying that using some of Williams themes and Hedwig's themes more often would artistically limit Desplat/Hooper/Doyle in their originality. Wouldnt 90& original own material and 10% established themes be enough?

In my opinion (and probably everyone elses because it just wouldnt make sense otherwise) you are still original enough if you can do what you want for 90% of the film. Don't you agree? Or is there an invisible border at 98% own stuff you aren't allowed to pass to stay original enough?

3) What do you respond to the claim that if composers accept the job to work on a franchise they should expect to use established material? They can also refuse the job anyway if they want to do all in all original films. So in the end it is always their choice

4) Another big problem is that Desplat (and he was the only one) didnt deliver own memorable themes. I can't say if he couldnt come up with better motifs or just changed the approach but this is serious. In a franchise so dependent on its themes you just can't abandon everything old without delivering something new thematic and memorable. It's like one important element of Potter music misses now.

Im thrilled what you will say in defense of Desplat here...

5) I read one comment claiming that the new Potter films are self contained. That cannot be true because all the build up on this epic 8 movie story was done over all the films. If you only watch the new film you have no clue what's going on. There is no exposition anymore.

( The only film who would work self contained was the first one)

6) As some of you mentioned i have to agree that a lot what went wrong musically has to be blamed on Yates and also on the producers. They seem to never had or have lost their musical sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so tempted to order the expanded set but I just cannot justify that $$$. I might bite for the iTunes expanded version though. I do wish they would do 320kbps encoding for orchestral scores though. Even 256kbps seems a tad flat to my ears compared to the CD version. I had to buy Powell's HTTYD because I felt I was missing something on the iTunes version. HP by Desplat is fast becoming my favorite score of the year. There's just so many interesting moments I have to keep going back to. The CD is going to kick butt!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why don't you accept different opinions, why don't you discuss. You always cite the same arguments in support of Desplat's abandoning of continuity and ignore the arguments against it.

And if for example i try to explain my problem with that approach you declare me as extreme JW fanboy.. that's not fair

Maybe you should read my posts some pages ago. I help you with that and put my problems with Desplat's approach in this post again so that you don't have to look for it. If you again ignore my points it proves to me that you don't want a serious discussion at all.

This is ludicrous. I've commented like four times in this thread that all we have heard is the album, and would those who are jumping on Desplat for not heavily featuring themes tell me where they have heard the full score, and have had no response. You're judging this aspect on an incomplete work.

Once again, this album is Desplat's chance to have new music stand on its own. He's not the first composer to do it, and it's not that far away from certain other composers (Williams, Goldsmith) leaving out many major theme statements from an album in favour of new material.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bottom line is, your opinion is ridiculous. You're throwing around made up statistics and whatnot, and expect people to take you seriously. You haven't even seen the film nor heard the whole score in its context. You completely dismiss that there's an entire other film coming later, that could very well have further developed and grander themes (This I assume based on your opinion that Desplat's themes as presented on the OST are crap. I haven't listened to it yet).

There is no musical law that states a composer taking over a franchise has to reuse older themes. Please the fans? I highly doubt any casual HP fan can identify Williams' themes aside from Hedwig's Theme, which Desplat has used. Every time another composer uses WIlliams' themes, everyone here hates it. Hooper fucked it up. Ottman fucked it up. Why would you want the same thing to happen with Desplat? If you want to hear Williams' themes, listen to his damn scores! This is Desplat's score, which means he's the one writing the music, not you, not John Williams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading all these negative posts and listening to the samples on the official site I'm really looking forward to hearing this even more because that means it's probably better than I even expected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is ludicrous. I've commented like four times in this thread that all we have heard is the album, and would those who are jumping on Desplat for not heavily featuring themes tell me where they have heard the full score, and have had no response. You're judging this aspect on an incomplete work.

You mean you haven't downloaded the Harry Potter 7 Part 1 Recording Sessions yet? 'Samattawitchu?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to say this guys but I would pretty much say that any major film composer is listening to the mandate of his employers (director, producers) and gives little to no thought about what the fans would like. It's not mean spirited mind you. It's just that there are so many other complexities in scoring a film that the composer rarely has the opportunity or time to think what the fans might want. Williams wrote concert versions of his scores because they guy is a compulsive composer- he cannot stop writing music. It's not that he thought "oh, I'll give the fans this suite". I mean, I cannot be totally sure what runs through his head but I do know that a lot is involved in the compositional process and most composers are just trying to satiate the director's requests while also imbuing the music with its own quality. If people enjoy it after the fact, it's more of a bonus than anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is ludicrous. I've commented like four times in this thread that all we have heard is the album, and would those who are jumping on Desplat for not heavily featuring themes tell me where they have heard the full score, and have had no response. You're judging this aspect on an incomplete work.

You mean you haven't downloaded the Harry Potter 7 Part 1 Recording Sessions yet? 'Samattawitchu?

lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no musical law that states a composer taking over a franchise has to reuse older themes. Please the fans? I highly doubt any casual HP fan can identify Williams' themes aside from Hedwig's Theme, which Desplat has used. Every time another composer uses WIlliams' themes, everyone here hates it. Hooper fucked it up. Ottman fucked it up. Why would you want the same thing to happen with Desplat? If you want to hear Williams' themes, listen to his damn scores! This is Desplat's score, which means he's the one writing the music, not you, not John Williams.

I totally agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great, you provide no arguments yourself and just diss my whole post. I said i used numbers i guessed to help you understand my point and you call it ridiculous. My god that's quite fanboy.

If you cant cope with critizism that differs from your opinion its sad. Why should i care about the next Harry Potter film now when there isnt even a composer announced. I said my opinion to this Potter score and this is it, the last scores composer is still unknown!

I never said that there are laws for reusing themes or something. I also read comments liking Hoopers interpretation of Hedwig's themes so your claim that the whole message board hates other composers uses of Williams hemes is completely wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To add one more thing to those naysayers- please give this a listen when it's actually released. Listen to it more than once. Go into it with an open mind, not a cynical one. Desplat has nothing but respect for Williams and he's mentioned this in many many interviews. After hearing this score a few times, it's more than evident he wished to respect Williams but also respect himself by doing his best within his own style too. I wouldn't want Desplat doing watered down Williams. I LOVE how Desplat managed to marry his compositional sensibilities with Williams'. I also think it's admirable that he has captured that English essence in his music. I can totally hear strains of Elgar and Vaughan Williams here and there. The other thing is that Desplat took some coloristic compositional devices from Williams' toolkit- things that don't seem obvious but are very much omnipresent- such as the brass staccatos accented a line, or the contrast from busy active sections to lighter smaller ones with different groupings of instrumentation.

As I said before, these are observations I've made just listening to it driving around. I'll have a proper listen when the CD arrives and will break it down in much greater detail.

I don't expect everyone will love this score though. Desplat definitely has a refined style and I'm bloody glad he didn't chuck it because of the pressure of Potter fandom. that's not arrogance- that's integrity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to say this guys but I would pretty much say that any major film composer is listening to the mandate of his employers (director, producers) and gives little to no thought about what the fans would like. It's not mean spirited mind you. It's just that there are so many other complexities in scoring a film that the composer rarely has the opportunity or time to think what the fans might want. Williams wrote concert versions of his scores because they guy is a compulsive composer- he cannot stop writing music. It's not that he thought "oh, I'll give the fans this suite". I mean, I cannot be totally sure what runs through his head but I do know that a lot is involved in the compositional process and most composers are just trying to satiate the director's requests while also imbuing the music with its own quality. If people enjoy it after the fact, it's more of a bonus than anything else.

That's a good point, may be true in a lot of cases. You have to hope that the producer or director is a fan of the music. Then all other casual fans get what they want ROTFLMAO

@ Charlie Bridgen: You are right, i dont base these opinon on all the music in the film, just on the OST but i'm happy to be mistaken if the film contains more established material. I know i base it on an incomplete work but what i heard on the soundtrack made it impossible for me not to comment my thoughts right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, I couldn't be happier with how the score turned out. This seems much more appropriate for the tone of the last book rather than Williams' first and second score. So maybe ditching a lot of the melodic content of the first couple is for the best. I mean - why be angry that you got really neat brand new themes? Just means that you have more fun material to listen to that you haven't heard before.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that if Williams signed on to do the last 2 movies, he would have done a bang up job...but this Desplat score is inventive, quirky, dark, and yet most importantly - MAGICAL! I feel like the music finally has some of that whimsy back that has been missing since the 3rd entry. I listen to a cue like "Detonators" and I am absolutely floored that I am going to be watching a movie with this amazing funny music in it! The score plays and sounds like a fantasy adventure movie from the 80's. And that's the best compliment I could ever give a composer who isn't Williams when it comes to scoring a Potter movie.

Would I want Williams back for the final installment? Sure. But quite honestly, if Desplat stayed for the final one, I wouldn't be upset.

I think everybody complaining that he doesn't use every piece of thematic material need to get a grip and realize that that's actually a positive thing. He uses Hedwig enough to pay homage and make the appropriate gestures that tie the score to the previous ones. (Much better than Hooper OR Doyle did) but also gives us amazing new stuff. Why should we complain?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is good underscore but where are the themes you are talking about? I at the most hear a few motives developed throughout the score, only maybe Lovegood is a theme but not at all memorable sadly...

Actually, I couldn't be happier with how the score turned out. This seems much more appropriate for the tone of the last book rather than Williams' first and second score. So maybe ditching a lot of the melodic content of the first couple is for the best. I mean - why be angry that you got really neat brand new themes? Just means that you have more fun material to listen to that you haven't heard before.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that if Williams signed on to do the last 2 movies, he would have done a bang up job...but this Desplat score is inventive, quirky, dark, and yet most importantly - MAGICAL! I feel like the music finally has some of that whimsy back that has been missing since the 3rd entry. I listen to a cue like "Detonators" and I am absolutely floored that I am going to be watching a movie with this amazing funny music in it! The score plays and sounds like a fantasy adventure movie from the 80's. And that's the best compliment I could ever give a composer who isn't Williams when it comes to scoring a Potter movie.

Would I want Williams back for the final installment? Sure. But quite honestly, if Desplat stayed for the final one, I wouldn't be upset.

I think everybody complaining that he doesn't use every piece of thematic material need to get a grip and realize that that's actually a positive thing. He uses Hedwig enough to pay homage and make the appropriate gestures that tie the score to the previous ones. (Much better than Hooper OR Doyle did) but also gives us amazing new stuff. Why should we complain?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not everything has to be a standout theme to be a good score, you know. Gestures can be just as impressive and amazing.

And as to actual themes, we have Hedwig (obviously)

the Death Eater theme (Snape to Malfoy Manor, plenty of other cues)

Harry (The Burrow, several other cues)...it's the horn bit right at the beginning that's brought back in both the low strings and clarinet just in that cue, and many times in the other cues).

Friendship - which can be said is more of a gesture...but as I said...that works out just as well. Not everything has to be a giant sweeping theme. In fact, that's quite out of fashion in film scores these days anyways. This can be found right at the beginning of "Ron's Speech" as well as Obliviate and others.

Ministry of Magic (low brass figure right at the beginning)

I could go on and on as the score is fulllll of thematic material. Just because it isn't the Raider's March doesn't make it unmemorable either. You just need a trained ear to hear all of them. He actually references his themes almost more than Williams. Listen closely and you'll find them all over the place!!

And by the way, yes, we film composer tend to stay away from boards such as this. Music is subjective, and arguing about it with anyone, let alone fans that are incredibly passionate about the subject can lead to serious headaches - Especially when the industry is not usually understood by the people complaining. It really can be a bit too much for myself to take.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And by the way, yes, we film composer tend to stay away from boards such as this. Music is subjective, and arguing about it with anyone, let alone fans that are incredibly passionate about the subject can lead to serious headaches - Especially when the industry is not usually understood by the people complaining. It really can be a bit too much for myself to take.

Hey, we must look like ants from where you're standing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And by the way, yes, we film composer tend to stay away from boards such as this. Music is subjective, and arguing about it with anyone, let alone fans that are incredibly passionate about the subject can lead to serious headaches - Especially when the industry is not usually understood by the people complaining. It really can be a bit too much for myself to take.

Excellent post about the themes, thanks.

I do have the feeling that possible composer-fan interaction (or any ...-fan interaction) is often screwed up by a few very vocal fans who moreover often express their opinions rather badly (either through a sense of entitlement, obsessive behaviour, or just bad phrasing); I hope you guys are also reading the nicer and better-founded posts.

By the way, Film Composer '518', is that from the world ranking?

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And by the way, yes, we film composer tend to stay away from boards such as this. Music is subjective, and arguing about it with anyone, let alone fans that are incredibly passionate about the subject can lead to serious headaches - Especially when the industry is not usually understood by the people complaining. It really can be a bit too much for myself to take.

Hey, we must look like ants from where you're standing.

Bacteria, maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I swear Desplat is channeling some John Williams Images in "Fireplaces Escape"

Actually, I feel like the more thematic moments in Images is actually what a end-game Johnny score would sound like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do have the feeling that possible composer-fan interaction (or any ...-fan interaction) is often screwed up by a few very vocal fans who moreover often express their opinions rather badly (either through a sense of entitlement, obsessive behaviour, or just bad phrasing); I hope you guys are also reading the nicer and better-founded posts.

Very much so. It's a fundamental flaw in nearly all such types of "-fan interactions", and it's unfortunate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's nothing wrong with walking up to good ol' Johnny, shaking his hand and exclaiming, "Look Mr. Williams! Attack of the Clones sucked mummified ostrich balls!" and walking away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.