Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows Part 1 by Alexandre Desplat

[gkgyver 1,645]

No, it wasn't. I will gladly repeat that the opening titles are the weakest of the series.

[King Mark 3,624]

An epic movie of this type with a shit score drags the movie down a few notches no matter what.

There's a reason Star Wars and Indiana Jones are movie classics

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MissPadmé 17]

The score is fantastic, it fits the film perfectly - I just don't get why some people hate it so much.. there is a lot of Williams in that score.

[crocodile 7,982]

There is. After seeing the film and listening to the score multiple times during the week I can hear more and more. Which is the best thing about Desplat's work in general - there is always something to discover.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MissPadmé 17]

Agreed, unfortunatly it's over pretty quick.. The scene in general I think - Also Fireplace Escape works just great with the picture!

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

Someone at FSM mentioned there's a quote to the Sorcerer's Stone motif in "Sky Battle" at 2:10 approximately. And it's true! It's very brief, but it's awesome.

[Neimoidian 14]

Someone at FSM mentioned there's a quote to the Sorcerer's Stone motif in "Sky Battle" at 2:10 approximately. And it's true! It's very brief, but it's awesome.

I've noticed it too and have wondered whether it's coincidence or not. As for the score, it's not bad at all, but in general I find it lacking coherence and ... balls for the most part. There are a few preety good tracks and the score works with the , but that's not enough for me, it's not a score I expected from Desplat for an epic finale and last but not least it's not a score I would like to listen to often enough.

[crocodile 7,982]

Yes, but the film is exactly like that. There is very little fantasy in it and for the most part it feels more like drama than the epic finale. There is no other way the score could be approached. I guess the big film will be the second one. And the score will be more like it as well.

If you need an analogy the film feels like The Two Towers, but with no Rohan subplot.

Karol

[Neimoidian 14]

Yes, but the film is exactly like that. There is very little fantasy in it. There is no other way it could be done.

Karol

I don't mean lack of fantasy elements. I didn't expect them at all. Moreover, I am sure that if JW had been hired for the job, he would have written something in vein of Revenge of the Sith rather than Philosopher's Stone. That's absolutely fine. For me the new score is just too restrained. I know it's probably director's demand, nevertheless such slow and quiet (for the most part) stuff isn't my cup of tea. Mind that's only my opinion on the soundtrack, not the composer who I find more than competent.

[Henry B 50]

Someone at FSM mentioned there's a quote to the Sorcerer's Stone motif in "Sky Battle" at 2:10 approximately. And it's true! It's very brief, but it's awesome.

It's probably just the second phrase of Hedwig's theme.

[John Crichton 4]

It's the Emperor's theme!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Quick review of the score in the film.

In the film, the score is even less prominent than on album. The two best cues on album, "Ron Leaves" and "Lovegood" have been omitted. Judging by the special edition bonus tracks, "The Tale Of The Three Brothers" has been cut as well.

Yes, Yates loooved Desplat's "Ron Leaves" so much that he cut it from the film.

The omissions made the themes even less noticeable than they already are.

If you really want to know why John Williams won't be back, or what to expect from part 2, just compare the album version of "Ron Leaves" to what ended up scoring that scene. That tells it all. You have a very restrained but beatiful cue originally, and Yates required, once again, nothing but a random assortment of string notes.

Now I finally get why Hooper was allowed to do two films.

John Williams won't be back because Yates wants random music that is the complete opposite of everything Williams stands for. That is the reason, and not the half-baked rubbish we are given, about Williams being Yates' god

Quite frankly, David Yates loses more and more of my respect, to the point where I think he's a complete a-hole.

Nicholas Hooper's music was more prominent than Desplat's. That's right, you heard me. It may have been monotone. It may have been musically unremarkable. And ultimately it may have been forgettable.

But at least it dared to play to the emotions of any given scene.

"Farewell To Dobby" was the only time the music rose to something I would call playing to the audience, and even that cue was incomplete.

The toning down of the music to inexplicably low levels ruins the score even further.

The only sequence in which the music worked really well was in Godric's Hollow. The wintery, solemn atmosphere and the minimal percussion almost amounted to something more than the sum of its parts. But nobody, not even the most fierce defender of "No more Williams" could argue with sincerity that this sequence did not require Williams' Window To The Past.

You don't have any noteworthy thematic material in there anyway, so why not actually reach for something that helps cinematic, and emotional, continuity?

Oh, I forget, it's David Yates ...

For a score that sounds nicely coherent on album, the movie presentation is awfully fragmented.

Yes, calm down, there is not much fantasy in there to justify grandiose fantasy music, but who the eff needs fantasy when he has these visuals?

Look at the landscapes, the settings, the often gorgeous cinematography and lyrical images ... apart from Godric's Hollow, nothing of that ever reflects in the score.

I'm sure someone will come along and beat the dead horse of "but this is just what the film needs".

Where does it say that a road movie or a, ahem, "thriller" (a description for DH that I find godawful) needs a completely anonymous and also fragmented score?

In such a film, I find the score to be a more important factor than in most other movies. If you have a great number of scene changes, you need music to shape them.

For whatever is left in the film, except maybe the Ministry sequence, Yates could have hired anyone.

No matter what people say, this movie deserved more than endless arrangements of repeating string figures.

As it is, the most poignant musical sequence is Harry's and Hermione's dance. And that is source music.

If this movie had no score whatsoever, I'm not sure the outcome were to be any different.

Add to this one hour of film in which the audience, having not read the books, has no clear idea of what's going on, and you get one of the most incoherent and anonymous pieces of filmmaking in the Harry Potter series.

This exemplifies better than anything in the series that books work on a different level than movies.

When you read that in a book, you know you're reading a book, and you have your imagination to dream about intonation, the faces, the pace and the setting the characters are in, and it's in real time.

When you transport this 1:1 into a movie, like Deathly Hallows does, all imagination and tickling for your brain is gone, it's just actors reading lines.

And that is highly unengaging.

That the second hour is as captivating as it is, is most likely owed to the book, and not the director or composer. In fact, it may be a good movie in spite of them.

A more coherent and poignant score would have helped that first hour a lot.

The opening titles are the weakest in the series, and the cliffhanger ending is also the weakest scored climax of the series.

In every of the Yates films, you get a feeling at the end that, even though this movie is over, the story isn't. Deathly Hallows part 1 doesn't create a good feeling of cinematic closure (not story-closure, that is obviously something different).

What is the incentive for the story to go on?

Voldemort has a new wand, and there are three more Horcruxes - so what?

The movie doesn't really convey any sense of importance.

And this is now, finally, the prime example why the people who always complained that things just were not explained well or coherently enough in the last movies, were right.

It's the first Harry Potter film where I didn't bother staying for, or during, the end credits 1) because the ending doesn't rouse you because it comes fast and unmotivated, and 2) because having Remote Control string patterns opening your Harry Potter finale end credit sui... pardon, edit job, doesn't do anything to keep you in the spirit of the film for a while afterwards.

If I want to hear that, I'll just play The Dark Knight or any other RC score of my choice.

For part 2, we can expect a very faithful adaption of the book I think, which even Yates cannot ruin, and a score by Desplat that will most likely introduce new material, since I can't hear the current bunch of stuff being developed into anything significantly different.

And if the Resurrection Stone scene is as insensitively and randomly scored as "Ron Leaves" ... well, I'll leave that to your imagination.

[Datameister 2,037]

Quite frankly, David Yates loses more and more of my respect, to the point where I think he's a complete a-hole.

A perfectly good review rendered credibility-less by unnecessary insults purely on the basis of musical tastes.

[gkgyver 1,645]

This goes far and beyond musical tastes, but that's obviously too much for some people to comprehend.

When a director like Yates writes in the booklet of the soundtrack that he loved a specific piece so much that he immediately offered the composer another job, while at the same time stating he would have loved to get another composer for the same job, and then completely omits said "beloved" piece from the film, you did everything you can to be criticised as having a dubious character.

Apparently, it is also too much to discuss the motivations behind the people on this project, to the point where a wholly valid review supposedly loses "all credibility" because it points at the obvious, and contradicting, BS that comes out of David Yates' mouth.

Sure, take the easy route.

Taking cheap shots is one of JWfan's finest qualities.

[Datameister 2,037]

You're overestimating your knowledge of what went on behind the scenes. Is it possible that he loved the piece but ended up deciding it wasn't appropriate to the scene as they shot it? Is it possible the decision was a compromise with someone else? Is it possible that he misremembered the events? (You'd be amazed at how inaccurate the memory of a healthy human being can be.) Is it possible his kind words about the piece were more about professional courtesy than malicious deception?

It's possible that none of those are the case. The point is that we simply don't know, and your personally judgmental attitudes are yet again dragging down what would otherwise be an interesting read.

[gkgyver 1,645]

So this one

An epic movie of this type with a shit score drags the movie down a few notches no matter what.

There's a reason Star Wars and Indiana Jones are movie classics

qualifies as a terribly polished statement, and slips by because it does not directly insult any person involved musically on Deathly Hallows?

You don't need to have incredible backstage knowledge sometimes, not everything is as nebulous as Shore being rejected for King Kong. Everyone can watch Half Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows, read Yates' comments and do the math: 2+2.

In this case, it's more like 1+1.

Williams is the exact opposite of everything Yates obviously wants in these films, and he's wiggling himself out of the uncomfortable JW-question.

It's glaringly obvious.

But at the very least it's not as naive as assuming what leading people in this business say is always true.

[Datameister 2,037]

Interesting non sequitor. Sorry if I accidentally implied that any post I have not criticized is a "terribly polished statement" that I intend to let "slip by." I've disagreed with and then ignored thousands of posts since I first started participating on message boards. Finding random examples of them isn't a logical rebuttal of what I said.

EDIT: I see you've added more to your post. Thanks for addressing what I said a little more directly. I think I'm gonna peace out, though. It's clear that this conversation won't do anyone any good - sorry I started it. EDIT 2: And for the record, I would hope you're not accusing me of making assumptions. That's exactly the opposite of what I was arguing for. But no matter.

[Matt C 452]

For part 2, we can expect a very faithful adaption of the book I think, which even Yates cannot ruin, and a score by Desplat that will most likely introduce new material, since I can't hear the current bunch of stuff being developed into anything significantly different.

Oh, but there are several motifs that can be expanded upon and resolved in Part 2. Voldemort and the Death Eaters theme, the Trio theme, et al. I fail to see how Desplat's score for Part 2 will feature all new material, we'll definitely get some motif reprisals.

And your so-called 'review' of how much music was cut out is a regular trend in Hollywood. Williams's SW prequel scores were utterly mangled in the films but had good OST releases, John Ottman's FF4 scores had the same problem and so on. All composers have that problem with their music being cut, shifted around or taken out entirely. The music works just fine in the film, and IMO worked better than the OST release.

[King Mark 3,624]

Oh, but there are several motifs that can be expanded upon and resolved in Part 2. Voldemort and the Death Eaters theme, the Trio theme, et al. I fail to see how Desplat's score for Part 2 will feature all new material, we'll definitely get some motif reprisals.

Problem is all these motifs suck

Someone mention that "Destroying the Locket" is the only cue that really shines in the film .It's also the only cue that really shines on the c.d.

[Matt C 452]

Problem is all these motifs suck

Someone mention that "Destroying the Locket" is the only cue that really shines in the film .It's also the only cue that really shines on the c.d.

You're treading on troll territory, king mark. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say anything at all. You just say 'all non-JW scores suck' and go back under your rock.

It's tiresome. Just stop.

[King Mark 3,624]

yes,Mr 216 posts

My opinion on this score has nothing to do with John Williams .I'm judging it as a general film music fan who finds it a very unmemorable and bland listening experience after going through the album 3 times

[gkgyver 1,645]

For part 2, we can expect a very faithful adaption of the book I think, which even Yates cannot ruin, and a score by Desplat that will most likely introduce new material, since I can't hear the current bunch of stuff being developed into anything significantly different.

Oh, but there are several motifs that can be expanded upon and resolved in Part 2. Voldemort and the Death Eaters theme, the Trio theme, et al. I fail to see how Desplat's score for Part 2 will feature all new material, we'll definitely get some motif reprisals.

And your so-called 'review' of how much music was cut out is a regular trend in Hollywood. Williams's SW prequel scores were utterly mangled in the films but had good OST releases, John Ottman's FF4 scores had the same problem and so on. All composers have that problem with their music being cut, shifted around or taken out entirely. The music works just fine in the film, and IMO worked better than the OST release.

Stop deriding my lengthier thoughts just because I dare to utter elaborate criticism for what is apparently an underwhelming score for more than just myself.

I should have expressed myself clearer: there are no motifs that are worth exploring beyond what was already done in part 1.

To try expanding them makes as much sense as trying to expand the Jaws motif - there is nothing to expand, it's just two/three notes.

[BTR1701 59]

Is the photo of that cue sheet with those rapid 32th notes for real?

I would hope not. That looks like nothing but a scale exercise from some method book.

[publicist 4,643]

Someone mention that "Destroying the Locket" is the only cue that really shines in the film .It's also the only cue that really shines on the c.d.

And even that is barely audible due to the nuisance of the locket's rather loud appearance. What it proves is that Desplat isn't less able to handle the setpieces, it's just not in the cards.

I'm really curious if Williams would've delved into WAR OF THE WORLDS-rumbling underscore territory to satisfy Yates' musical needs. Certainly he would've injected it all with a bit more thematic ooomph, but you can forget that this score would become a favourite like the first three. Williams is an employee of Warner Bros., a creative one, maybe, but he plays the game long enough to know that he cannot write against the wishes of the director.

[MattyO 62]

I really enjoyed the film and thought Desplat's score was pitch-perfect with the visuals. I appreciate the score more and more with each listen.

[Neimoidian 14]

Someone mention that "Destroying the Locket" is the only cue that really shines in the film .It's also the only cue that really shines on the c.d.

And even that is barely audible due to the nuisance of the locket's rather loud appearance. What it proves is that Desplat isn't less able to handle the setpieces, it's just not in the cards.

I'm really curious if Williams would've delved into WAR OF THE WORLDS-rumbling underscore territory to satisfy Yates' musical needs. Certainly he would've injected it all with a bit more thematic ooomph, but you can forget that this score would become a favourite like the first three. Williams is an employee of Warner Bros., a creative one, maybe, but he plays the game long enough to know that he cannot write against the wishes of the director.

I am sure his score would have been like a crossover between RotS and WotW. I am only curious whether he would have used some of his earlier themes, like Window to the Past or Dobby's.

[King Mark 3,624]

Williams might not have used character themes so much but since most of the movies is traveling in the woods he can write grand passages for travel and the landscapes (like 7 years in Tibet) .Or like A.I. Abandonned in the Woods. Or all the treking music in Temple of Doom

[publicist 4,643]

Williams might not have used character themes so much but since most of the movies is traveling in the woods he can write grand passages for travel and the landscapes (like 7 years in Tibet) .Or like A.I. Abandonned in the Woods

No big travelling passages, sorry. Of course, you always can grab the cash yourself and make this big, operatic travelogue POTTER movie, but it ain't this one.

What you certainly would've gotten are more cues like DEMENTORS CONVERGE...

[King Mark 3,624]

yes but Dementors Converge is better than anything in this score

BTW PoA is already a darker score than what Doyle and Hooper wrote .It's only reflective (past theme) or playful (snowball fight)when it should be. And the medieval sounding passages would never be inappropriate for a Potter film

[crocodile 7,982]

Actually, you might be right. But then again it would be just as "small" as that score. And I'm not entirely convinced if that's what the majority of Jw's fans want for the last film of this series.

Karol

[King Mark 3,624]

People forget that PoA's score was actually pretty bleak and dark ,and a lot of the unreleased stuff as well .But it doesn't mean you can't have fleeting moments of beauty. Williams does that in transitional shots , with the camera following the blue bird, season changes...

Because every new movies seems to claim that it's darker than the previous ones. Even all the trailers start out by a narrator saying that.

But listen to cues from Hooper like Dumbledore's Army,Professor Umbridge, The room of Requirements. Not exactly dark foreboding stuff. Even HPSS is darker than this

[publicist 4,643]

yes but Dementors Converge is better than anything in this score

Hardly. The LOVEGOOD and DEATHLY HALLOWS cues get far more playtime by me...meaning i never listen to the aleatoric stuff from POTTER III. I agree on the medieval stuff. It would be a nice touch if they retained that, but more powerful minds decided that musical continuity doesn't matter with this series.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Problem is all these motifs suck

Someone mention that "Destroying the Locket" is the only cue that really shines in the film .It's also the only cue that really shines on the c.d.

You're treading on troll territory, king mark. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say anything at all. You just say 'all non-JW scores suck' and go back under your rock.

It's tiresome. Just stop.

No he is right with the bad motifs and it will never be tiresome to express the own opinion. Why can't you cope with critizism? Read the lenghtier posts earlier in this thread. Pretty much all the naysayers of this score have expressed much more with real arguments than the Desplat fanboys...

[David Coscina 3]

That's total bull**** sf1. You clearly have selective memory or skipped past the thoughtful posts from the advocates of this score.

[SF1_freeze 131]

You're overestimating your knowledge of what went on behind the scenes. Is it possible that he loved the piece but ended up deciding it wasn't appropriate to the scene as they shot it? Is it possible the decision was a compromise with someone else? Is it possible that he misremembered the events? (You'd be amazed at how inaccurate the memory of a healthy human being can be.) Is it possible his kind words about the piece were more about professional courtesy than malicious deception?

It's possible that none of those are the case. The point is that we simply don't know, and your personally judgmental attitudes are yet again dragging down what would otherwise be an interesting read.

For me the critical personal judgement doesnt drag an otherwise interesting read down! It makes it more interesting, honest and at least doesn't seem biased in the fact that a lot people here seem like they work for the warner bros publicity departement, by praising everything the crew has done and ignoring or extreme counterquestioning every bit of critique....

That's total bull**** sf1. You clearly have selective memory or skipped past the thoughtful posts from the advocates of this score.

It's subjective, no need to render it bullshit... but well you are not one of them i admit. You were one of the few who wrote lenghty thoughtful posts although i can't agree with much.

Don't forget i said pretty much all and not all, please read more carefully

[fommes 153]

Hmmm let's look at a summary of the arguments for and against this score:

1. The detractors use adjectives like "boring" to put forth their position

2. The advocates have included specific music examples and have appeared to be more objective in their description of why they enjoy the score.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Hmmm let's look at a summary of the arguments for and against this score:

1. The detractors use adjectives like "boring" to put forth their position

2. The advocates have included specific music examples and have appeared to be more objective in their description of why they enjoy the score.

This is wrong in a number of FACTS and OMITTING A LOT ;)

1.) The detractors use adjectives like boring AND

Score being largely unmemorable

Employing weak motifs and hardly anything long enough to be worth a theme

Failing in having an easy recognizable thematic voice throughout the whole score

Scrapping the approach ALL the other Potter movies had with delivering strong melodies (even Hooper had them- Umbridge, Fireworks, In Noctem, Dumbledore's army)

Failed and dissapointing Hedwig's Theme movie opening (too quiet, too short Hedwig's statement, not even orchestrations)

Completely failing in continuity with delivering only the minimum (and that almost unrecognizably quiet in the movie)

2.) The advoctes said that this score fits the movie perfectly and is superb

They offered musical examples by saying things even most naysayers agree with....that there are some great tracks in there

They said another thing everyone agrees here: The orchestrations are great and through Conrad Pope and Desplats writing style they connect with Williams style of orchestration (which is good but doesnt help when the melodies are bad)

They bring on old arguments like no other music would fit this movie, it is so dark, no one can use Williams themes other than himself which are superficial, biased and seem NOT thought through.

(They are easily proven to be wrong in a lots of ways: There would definitely be other approaches that would fit the movie, there always are. Not only one way is right and thats true for the whole life too

The movie is dark but the old scores were also very dark in a lot of ways...everyone forgets that. Largely darker than anything Hooper has done (Voldemort Themes, dementors, shrieking shrack, Window to the Past, etc.......

The fact that only Williams can use his themes well is completely subjective and i cannot agree at all. I loved the opening of Order of the Phoenix, the use of Hedwigs in the Room of Requirement, the statement of Hedwig's theme in the opening of GoF and on the train to Hogwarts in HbP)

[fommes 153]

OK, I'll bite and do this just once, and it's going to be in the detractors' rhetorics.

1.) The detractors use adjectives like boring AND

Not boring at all. I find the score terribly dynamic and exciting.

Score being largely unmemorable

Employing weak motifs and hardly anything long enough to be worth a theme

Failing in having an easy recognizable thematic voice throughout the whole score

Then how come that yesterday, after only two full listens, I was humming three to four themes the rest of the day? I.e. the Obliviate theme, the Potter Allies theme, the Ministry of Magic, Lovegood. That only happens once or perhaps twice a year anymore.

You mistake the distinction between themes and loud IN-YOUR-FACE themes with the distinction motifs - themes. The themes are not weak at all. Both harmonic progression and orchestrational differences & dynamics are highly entertaining & interesting.

Not only the themes, but the voice is recognisable, too. The style is Desplat, yet I couldn't mistake it for any of his other scores this year (much like Raiders vs Superman or so).

By the way, did you play this on a good stereo system, and not only on your PC or iPod?

Scrapping the approach ALL the other Potter movies had with delivering strong melodies (even Hooper had them- Umbridge, Fireworks, In Noctem, Dumbledore's army)

Your craving for "strong melodies" and "easy recognizable thematic voice" seems like you're looking for a much more dumbed-down score, and in-your-face themes that are easier to follow for you. There's more going on than just the themes, which I repeat are still very recognisable. They're just not played as straight as you're used to (either in Williams concert format (which treats the themes to their own deluxe track), or in Hooper format (which is restricted to melody ONLY because of limited skills)).

Failed and dissapointing Hedwig's Theme movie opening (too quiet, too short Hedwig's statement, not even orchestrations)

Are you really going to bitch over the ten-second Hedwig's Theme movie opening? The Obliviate track makes up for this in plenty of ways. However, I'll give you that Hedwig's Theme in the movie was mixed way too low, and was barely noticeable.

Completely failing in continuity with delivering only the minimum (and that almost unrecognizably quiet in the movie)

This, again, is a paradigm that was set in the previous movies, including Williams's own last one. I'll gladly have Desplat set his own melodies and score for this rather than borrow inferior stuff from Doyle or Hooper. Continuity as an absolute, top-down model should be avoided at all costs; instead one needs to look at it bottom-up: continuity, for instance, in Horner's two Zorro scores was imperative: same tone, style, etc. in both movies (despite being made some years apart), and Horner did a bang-up job. Yates's movies, however, are so much different (and inferior) than Columbus's movies or Cuaron's film, that no unifying musical approach is required.

but doesnt help when the melodies are bad

Those naughty, naughty melodies!

Just, for yourself, define a 'weak', 'bad' melody.

They bring on old arguments like no other music would fit this movie, it is so dark, no one can use Williams themes other than himself which are superficial, biased and seem NOT thought through.

I have no idea what you're saying here, but I'm sure Williams would do an equally great job. If you think Williams would bring back his themes, I'm sure you would have been proven wrong, but that's just hypothetical. I don't buy the movie being darker than the rest either though, the third one was for me personally much darker, just because it was so much better done and more effective.

(They are easily proven to be wrong in a lots of ways: There would definitely be other approaches that would fit the movie, there always are. Not only one way is right and thats true for the whole life too

That's right. Not only one way - the continuity way - is right.

The fact that only Williams can use his themes well is completely subjective and i cannot agree at all. I loved the opening of Order of the Phoenix, the use of Hedwigs in the Room of Requirement, the statement of Hedwig's theme in the opening of GoF and on the train to Hogwarts in HbP)

It seems to me you like Hedwig's Theme so much that all you want is hearing that theme as much as possible. I'm sure you'll deny that, but it's all over your posts. Hedwig's Theme is great, but is already used more than necessary in the first two Potter films, and you can hear it there if you want to listen to it. I appreciate the theme as a hook into a wider musical universe and vocabulary, but it shouldn't dominate the other scores.

Now, in my own opinion, with regards to Desplat's score, I think he succeeds on every level (thematically, too, for sure!), but there is one big gap: an originally composed end credits suite, a concert suite of sorts, to close off both the film and the listening experience on the album. Now it just ends. A concert suite might also have helped some of the detractors who apparently don't recognize the themes, or think they're weak.

By the way, to ChrisAfonso: are you still working on your thematic breakdown? I'd love to read a sequel to the foretaste of your analysis.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[David Coscina 3]

I'm with Koray. You guys can rationalize it all you want- you don't like it, fine. But stop trying to sound intelligent because you're still using adjectives like "weak" that don't specifically support your claim aside from the fact that you clearly cannot digest anything that's not overt and hitting you over the head. If you guys know so much about what is "strong" tell me by getting into the music and describe on an intervalic basis why Williams' themes are stronger and Desplat's are weaker. Why Williams' harmonies and orchestration work and Desplat's doesn't. I'd like to know what makes Sky Battle so uninspired. Please, obviously you guys have so much more knowledge than those of us "Desplat fan boys" so if you're going to pretend to know what the hell you're talking about, the podium is all yours. But if you just start throwing out the crap that I've seen and try to pass it off as an expert view, well, I must defer to my initial statement that you're full of bullshit. Having an opinion is fine and we all know those who don't like the score. But when those naysayers start whipping out the ol' tried and true "blinded fan boy" reasoning, it irks me beyond belief.

And I guess you could also add a good many A list Hollywood profile composers to the "fan boy" club of Desplat because if you ask around, he's very well respected amongst fellow composers.

See you guys, I'm off to work on a film score.....

EDIT- I will say one thing more- I do wish more filmmakers would give Julian Nott a go at big fiilms. If anyone has ever listened to his Wallace and Gromit scores, they are bloody brilliant. I think Nott would have done an admirable job on HP. Pity he and Chris Gordon don't get more work. I think they're fantastic composers.

'bye!

[SF1_freeze 131]

@ fommes:

If the motifs werent weak nobody would be dissapointed... Of course there are some fanboys who love them and hear the score 20 times till they remember them, but that doesnt make them good nor

memorable.

Did you see lots of people complaining about window to the past, family theme, hedwig's theme, etc....no because they are great for everyone. Do you see the weakness of your argumentation-probably not?

I hope that people with an opinion like you never get near movie franchises. With your approval of scrapping and destroying continuity most movie franchises would have been much weaker and less successfull like Star wars, Indiana Jones, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings. You are so wrong in your opinion i can't even put it in words.

You in addition prove you don't know PoA well.

PoA did not scrap continuity. Hedwig's theme was used more than double the times than in every other non Williams Potter movie. Did you get it now, the continuity WAS NOT destroyed by Williams himself. Is it so hard to count the appearance of old themes? And the Quidditch theme was also used in the end!

What does my preference for Hedwig's theme has to do with the fact that other composers CAN use it well?

The other approaches would fit a non franchise movie without an established voice from 6 former films. It's unbelievable how you approve of completely scrapping the musical approach set forth in six movies before.....................

Do you think about the things you write? Why ffs is having an easy recognizable thematic voice DUMBING the movie down? Do you listen to lots of film scores that provide that? Is Star Trek The Motion Picture dumbed down? Is Jurassic Park dumbed down? Is Superman dumbed down? Is Star Wars dumbed down? What are you talking about?

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I should have expressed myself clearer: there are no motifs that are worth exploring beyond what was already done in part 1.

To try expanding them makes as much sense as trying to expand the Jaws motif - there is nothing to expand, it's just two/three notes.

I think the comparison with the Jaws motif is a bit unfair, that one is (and is supposed to be) as minimal as possible (unless you count Giacchino's evil bass harp plucks as a motif - which is not that far out ).

And I think there's lots of evidence in the history of music that even the smallest motivic seeds can be developed into the most diverse shapes, sometimes even into grand themes, possibly moreso than an elaborate theme that is presented at the onset in its entirety - it already has a fixed form, often you can't do much more to it than amp up the orchestration (which in itself can lead to marvelous results). If we go on, we'll soon arrive at the old Brahms vs. Bruckner debate

[SF1_freeze 131]

I'm with Koray. You guys can rationalize it all you want- you don't like it, fine. But stop trying to sound intelligent because you're still using adjectives like "weak" that don't specifically support your claim aside from the fact that you clearly cannot digest anything that's not overt and hitting you over the head. If you guys know so much about what is "strong" tell me by getting into the music and describe on an intervalic basis why Williams' themes are stronger and Desplat's are weaker. Why Williams' harmonies and orchestration work and Desplat's doesn't. I'd like to know what makes Sky Battle so uninspired. Please, obviously you guys have so much more knowledge than those of us "Desplat fan boys" so if you're going to pretend to know what the hell you're talking about, the podium is all yours. But if you just start throwing out the crap that I've seen and try to pass it off as an expert view, well, I must defer to my initial statement that you're full of bullshit. Having an opinion is fine and we all know those who don't like the score. But when those naysayers start whipping out the ol' tried and true "blinded fan boy" reasoning, it irks me beyond belief.

And I guess you could also add a good many A list Hollywood profile composers to the "fan boy" club of Desplat because if you ask around, he's very well respected amongst fellow composers.

See you guys, I'm off to work on a film score.....

EDIT- I will say one thing more- I do wish more filmmakers would give Julian Nott a go at big fiilms. If anyone has ever listened to his Wallace and Gromit scores, they are bloody brilliant. I think Nott would have done an admirable job on HP. Pity he and Chris Gordon don't get more work. I think they're fantastic composers.

'bye!

Please don't use adjectives like bullshit. It ruins your credibility and sounds as weak as the adjective "weak" .

Williams themes are stronger because they are much complexer and longer, offer B-parts and are developed more consistently. They in addition are memorable even after only the first listen or the first time you see the movie. The music takes centerfront often with the good thematic material and everyone gets aware of the score, where in case of Desplat the music often isn't even conciously noticed.

Even most Naysayers agreed that Sky Battle is a great track and i personally consider it the best on the album along with Polyjuice Potion and Lovegood! Why don't you stay true and try with conscious wrong facts to stir up all the people. I bet you read all our other posts where we considered sky battle great!!

Why is posting lenghty posts supported with thought out arguments blind fanboy reasoning? Do you believe what you are writing?

EDIT: Nobody ever said here that the orchestrations don't work. They are great! Please don't post wrong facts and think longer about what you write in your responses!

[publicist 4,643]

Do you think about the things you write? Why ffs is having an easy recognizable thematic voice DUMBING the movie down? Do you listen to lots of film scores that provide that? Is Star Trek The Motion Picture dumbed down? Is Jurassic Park dumbed down? Is Superman dumbed down? Is Star Wars dumbed down? What are you talking about?

You only cite movies at least 20 years old. You can bitch and moan all you want, movies aren't scored that way anymore. Just accept it and move on.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Do you think about the things you write? Why ffs is having an easy recognizable thematic voice DUMBING the movie down? Do you listen to lots of film scores that provide that? Is Star Trek The Motion Picture dumbed down? Is Jurassic Park dumbed down? Is Superman dumbed down? Is Star Wars dumbed down? What are you talking about?

You only cite movies at least 20 years old. You can bitch and moan all you want, movies aren't scored that way anymore. Just accept it and move on.

This has nothing to do with what i said! If you count right Jurassic Park (1993) is 17 years old. Ok, sry i forgot to mention Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter 1-3 or even Giacchinos Star Trek

[King Mark 3,624]

ok, well now that we've established that movies don't need any recognizable themes or motifs anymore , now were going somewhere

[ChrisAfonso 186]

@ fommes:

If the motifes werent weak nobody would be dissapointed... Of course there are some fanboys who love them and hear the score 20 times till they remember them, but that doesnt make them good nor

memorable.

Did you see lots of people complaining about window to the past, family theme, hediwg's theme, etc....no because they are great for everyone. Do you see the wekness of your argumentation-probably not?

I may be going on a tangent here, but you should account for the fact that these are by Williams, and this is a Williams fan board. Of course we all love those themes.

And again, we have to talk context here. As an example, would a grand sweeping theme have been appropriate in WotW? Ergo, Williams didn't write one.

You prove you don't know PoA well. PoA did not scrap continuity. Hedwig's theme was used more than double the times than in every other non Williams movie. Did you get it now, the continuity WAS NOT destroyed by Williams himself. Is it so hard to count the appearance of old themes?

If you look at the number of themes, then continuity in this regard amounts to "using Hedwig's theme". There are no less prominent statements of the theme in its immediate sequels, though they decrease in frequency over the course of the series, that's right. But as argued before, the quality of the scores can't be measured just by counting the amount of time the theme appears.

And the Quidditch theme was also used in the end!

Yes, and that bit felt totally tacked on.

[publicist 4,643]

This has nothing to do with what i said! If you count right Jurassic Park (1993) is 17 years old. Ok, sry i forgot to mention Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter 1-3 or even Giacchinos Star Trek

Are we splitting hairs now? There is one thing for sure: neither LOTR nor STAR TREK have the kind of thematic stuff you're so desperately craving for. HARRY POTTER I and II have that and what are they? Anachronistic filmscores, easily identified as nostalgic patina. I repeat: trends moved away from this kind of scoring a long time ago. What we have left is Williams doing 2 or 3 more Spielberg movies, Horner and Silvestri as the old guard (and god knows, they have adjusted, too), and Hans Zimmer and crew reigning supreme. Is that really so hard to take in?