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Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows Part 1 by Alexandre Desplat


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Which is why some of us Williams enthusiasts like Desplat- because he's widely accepted in Hollywood in spite of the current trends and he is putting out music that encompasses compositional practices of yesteryear. The final track in Benjamin Button could easily have been at home in a concert of Satie's music.

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Which is why some of us Williams enthusiasts like Desplat- because he's widely accepted in Hollywood in spite of the current trends and he is putting out music that encompasses compositional practices of yesteryear. The final track in Benjamin Button could easily have been at home in a concert of Satie's music.

And still, he obviously hasn't enough chops to move the fuckin' owl theme around five or six times...

:P

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I'm with Koray. You guys can rationalize it all you want- you don't like it, fine. But stop trying to sound intelligent because you're still using adjectives like "weak" that don't specifically support your claim aside from the fact that you clearly cannot digest anything that's not overt and hitting you over the head. If you guys know so much about what is "strong" tell me by getting into the music and describe on an intervalic basis why Williams' themes are stronger and Desplat's are weaker. Why Williams' harmonies and orchestration work and Desplat's doesn't. I'd like to know what makes Sky Battle so uninspired. Please, obviously you guys have so much more knowledge than those of us "Desplat fan boys" so if you're going to pretend to know what the hell you're talking about, the podium is all yours. But if you just start throwing out the crap that I've seen and try to pass it off as an expert view, well, I must defer to my initial statement that you're full of bullshit. Having an opinion is fine and we all know those who don't like the score. But when those naysayers start whipping out the ol' tried and true "blinded fan boy" reasoning, it irks me beyond belief.

The only thing I can say is that, personally, for whatever reason, JW scores often have both an immediate and long-lasting impact. There’s usually something there that’s memorable, iconic (or whatever term one might want to use) that I can identify and recall after the very first listen. That wasn’t the case with Desplat’s DH1. I very much enjoyed the music -- it kind of felt like a journey, in a way -- but there wasn’t much that I found especially memorable (as a contrast, I found Hooper’s HBP more memorable after a first listen). So I certainly get the criticism that the DH1 score doesn’t have an immediate impact on listeners or moviegoers -- in a very real sense, DH1 “doesn’t work” for listeners in the same way that a Williams score might have (pure speculation notwithstanding). The thing with Desplat’s score, though, is that I enjoy it on repeat more than some scores which I enjoyed more after a first listen (like, say, Avatar, if that makes sense).

Furthermore, I think Desplat’s score works exceptionally well both within the context of the film and as a listening experience at home (or at work). I’d have liked something more immediately memorable and identifiable element to the score -- something to form a thematic backbone, so-to-speak. But I tend to think that it’s a matter of subjective taste, rather than objective criticism. Whether you like Desplat’s competently written score or you dislike Desplat’s competently written score ... it's still a competently written score. And after several listens I *do* find it memorable and almost entirely enjoyable. Other than the lack of a prominent theme, I really can’t find much to say against the score. About the only thing I dislike are the few moments when the score becomes overly loud and nearly obnoxious (parts of "Bathilda Bagshot" and "Destroying the Locket" come to mind -- I dislike JW's "The Knight Bus" for the same reasons).

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Desplat's music is a definite grower. Repeated and careful listens are not what most listeners want though. We live in an "instant gratification" world after all. Which, from certain perspective, makes sense. The emotional resonance is an important thing and crucial to overall enjoyment of the music. But at the same time I prefer my music to be a bit more challenging, so that it doesn't run out of surprises after 1-2 listens. That's why I like the score.

Karol

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I'm with Koray. You guys can rationalize it all you want- you don't like it, fine. But stop trying to sound intelligent because you're still using adjectives like "weak" that don't specifically support your claim aside from the fact that you clearly cannot digest anything that's not overt and hitting you over the head. If you guys know so much about what is "strong" tell me by getting into the music and describe on an intervalic basis why Williams' themes are stronger and Desplat's are weaker. Why Williams' harmonies and orchestration work and Desplat's doesn't. I'd like to know what makes Sky Battle so uninspired. Please, obviously you guys have so much more knowledge than those of us "Desplat fan boys" so if you're going to pretend to know what the hell you're talking about, the podium is all yours. But if you just start throwing out the crap that I've seen and try to pass it off as an expert view, well, I must defer to my initial statement that you're full of bullshit. Having an opinion is fine and we all know those who don't like the score. But when those naysayers start whipping out the ol' tried and true "blinded fan boy" reasoning, it irks me beyond belief.

The only thing I can say is that, personally, for whatever reason, JW scores often have both an immediate and long-lasting impact. There’s usually something there that’s memorable, iconic (or whatever term one might want to use) that I can identify and recall after the very first listen. That wasn’t the case with Desplat’s DH1. I very much enjoyed the music -- it kind of felt like a journey, in a way -- but there wasn’t much that I found especially memorable (as a contrast, I found Hooper’s HBP more memorable after a first listen). So I certainly get the criticism that the DH1 score doesn’t have an immediate impact on listeners or moviegoers -- in a very real sense, DH1 “doesn’t work” for listeners in the same way that a Williams score might have (pure speculation notwithstanding). The thing with Desplat’s score, though, is that I enjoy it on repeat more than some scores which I enjoyed more after a first listen (like, say, Avatar, if that makes sense).

Furthermore, I think Desplat’s score works exceptionally well both within the context of the film and as a listening experience at home (or at work). I’d have liked something more immediately memorable and identifiable element to the score -- something to form a thematic backbone, so-to-speak. But I tend to think that it’s a matter of subjective taste, rather than objective criticism. Whether you like Desplat’s competently written score or you dislike Desplat’s competently written score ... it's still a competently written score. And after several listens I *do* find it memorable and almost entirely enjoyable. Other than the lack of a prominent theme, I really can’t find much to say against the score. About the only thing I dislike are the few moments when the score becomes overly loud and nearly obnoxious (parts of "Bathilda Bagshot" and "Destroying the Locket" come to mind -- I dislike JW's "The Knight Bus" for the same reasons).

THANKYOU SAM! See guys, this is what I call an objective post. It's not blindly gushy and Sam outlines things that doesn't resonate with him but is still able to acknowledge the skill behind the music.

You know, I shouldn't get all bent out of shape. Many Williams lovers on this forum don't like his War of the Worlds or the bulk of Saving Private Ryan for the same reasons, as if Williams owes it to the world to be a one-trick pony. I would actually submit that the Ohama Beach theme, that low brass statement, and the one that pervades throughout the score of SPR is actually more moving than Hymn to the Fallen because it matches the tone and tempo of the film more successfully. I also love WotW for its sheer aggression and primitive quality. Or the stark parts of A.I. I actually don't care for Williams' more over-the-top warm themes, except maybe the Home Alone or Hook themes because they have sentimental value for me. I much prefer his muscular, intellectual approaches. but that's a personal preference, not a reflection of anything he's not done in the music.

I think Sam really nails the aspect about Desplat that some find off-putting in that he's very precise and detailed about his music. There are often shadings that one could totally miss. I like my music to challenge me because when I discover something new, it makes me happy. It makes for an enjoyable listening experience for many times over. I remember the old adage that things which are immediately rewarding can lose their luster over time whereas things that take time to appreciate last much longer. I find this was many film scores to be honest. I listen to them intensely for a while but then often never go back to them again. Some scores, like Benjamin Button, have endured. I still enjoy listening to it. I can listen all the way through that score without skipping a track. The same cannot be said for Williams' post 90's scores, nor just about anyone else. Once again, that's my issue, not the composers'.

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Desplat's music is a definite grower. Repeated and careful listens are not what most listeners want though. We live in an "instant gratification" world after all. Which, from certain perspective, makes sense. The emotional resonance is an important thing and crucial to overall enjoyment of the music.

In some ways, it's the age-old struggle between popularity and craft. It's why most people usually groan at the annual Oscar awards. Rarely does the Oscar go to a "consensus" pick, combining a work that is both popular and critically acclaimed. In music, as in movies and everything else, it's very rare that the two are combined. Either you get the immediacy of a Zimmer or the craft of, say, a Desplat (both of which can easily be enjoyed on their own terms). Once in a great while you'll get that combination -- something like much of JW's work or Shore's LOTR. But those are exceptional scores and composers by definition. If everything were as good, they wouldn't be, well, exceptional.

For many listeners (including myself), Desplat's DH1 lacks that immediacy, so I thoroughly understand why listeners would want something different, and wouldn’t want to hang around long enough to see what all the fuss is about. If you want to listen to something that is heavily thematic (like the first three HP scores), you'll have to go elsewhere. We can argue all we want about what should have been (personally I'd have been thrilled with Williams and would even have been fine with Hooper doing the score ;) ), but the fact is, Desplat's score is what we got.

And there really is a *lot* more to it than meets the eye (well, ear, of course). There are recurring melodies and a progression of ideas from start to finish (within each track and within the album as a whole). The album sounds organic and I love how certain instruments seem to suddenly leap out of the fray and carry the music before returning back into the overall mix. Personally, I’m glad that I stuck around long enough to be able to enjoy these elements. Would I have liked an iconic theme? Or maybe so more connective tissue back to previous Potter films? Sure. But that doesn't mean that this is a weak score.

I guess the point I'm attempting to make is that, even for someone who highly values immediately memorable music, I don't think that a lack of immediacy necessarily equates to a lack of skill or quality. And, for whatever it's worth, I believe that DH1 definitely has both skill and quality.

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I guess the point I'm attempting to make is that, even for someone who highly values immediately memorable music, I don't think that a lack of immediacy necessarily equates to a lack of skill or quality. And, for whatever it's worth, I believe that DH1 definitely has both skill and quality.

Thank you. Like every other poster here, I recognize this is a JW fan forum. I expect some like king mark and Sf_1 to bash the score, but come on -- those guys could be respectful and objectively point out why they don't like the score (instead of just saying 'it sucks' or 'the new material sucks'). I love the DH1 score, and to a degree, I can understand the people who want a great score that grabs them at the start. Or even those who don't care for Desplat's approach.

But come on, respect others' opinions please. I don't bash the new Williams score or Hans Zimmer's practices just because I can.

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Like every other poster here, I recognize this is a JW fan forum. I expect some like king mark and Sf_1 to bash the score, but come on -- those guys could be respectful and objectively point out why they don't like the score (instead of just saying 'it sucks' or 'the new material sucks').

I find this a little odd because in general this happens to Williams' work on here probably more than any other composer.

For every hundred posts that say a particular Williams piece sucks, there will be only one post that will actually take the time to say why.

So this is nothing new.

But come on, respect others' opinions please.

This is the internet though, designed so the opinions of others could be urinated on without consequence.

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- those guys could be respectful and objectively point out why they don't like the score (instead of just saying 'it sucks' or 'the new material sucks')

I said I listened to it 3 times and I can remember only one track .Is that objective enough for you?

I'm trolling a lot less that those that come on a John Williams board claiming that bold "themes" is not the way to score a film because it distracts from the visuals, can't stand woodwinds in a scary scene and that Williams music is too saccharine sweet to score something this "dark" (and I've read people here saying Williams' HPSS sucks). Then I see newer JWfan members that only hang out in the Giacchino and Desplat threads or other non JW topics like recent films , only to deride all of Williams scores from the past 10 years whenever they have the chance (Prequels,KotCS...)

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I guess the point I'm attempting to make is that, even for someone who highly values immediately memorable music, I don't think that a lack of immediacy necessarily equates to a lack of skill or quality. And, for whatever it's worth, I believe that DH1 definitely has both skill and quality.

Thank you. Like every other poster here, I recognize this is a JW fan forum. I expect some like king mark and Sf_1 to bash the score, but come on -- those guys could be respectful and objectively point out why they don't like the score (instead of just saying 'it sucks' or 'the new material sucks'). I love the DH1 score, and to a degree, I can understand the people who want a great score that grabs them at the start. Or even those who don't care for Desplat's approach.

But come on, respect others' opinions please. I don't bash the new Williams score or Hans Zimmer's practices just because I can.

Are you completely off???!!! Now i start getting angry. I posted four to five IN DEPTH posts with the reasons and arguments why i think this score is a dissapointment but i never just said it sucks! I never took the easy way and now you write that i did? I was objective in almost all respects and now you write such a untrue accusation?

I for sure took much more time thinking and writing about that matter than you did before posting here in this thread!

For god's sake could you just read our posts before you spread such untrue accusations. I'm respectful and i'm objective and here are the damn proves:

The score sounds ok, even nice at times but nothing more than mediocre. That means completely apart from continuity this Potter score is a mediocre effort and on its own pretty dissapointing even compared to for example Hoppers Order of the Phoenix score. No sweeping and memorable themes and no real recognizable structure.

It seems it's just a mish mash of small underdeveloped motives.

Then there is the (usual) huge dissapointment in continuity. I'm not talking just about Williams themes. Why not use Doyle's Harry in Winter or even Hoopers "Flight of the Order of the Phoenix". As a composer you can't just completely ignore all the themes of a SIX movie franchise ( 50sec of the main theme is close to nothing).

For me that's an arrogant and creatively extremely poor decision, whichevers fault it was.

Is it just me or dont you think that the motif (it is no theme) this score is built around is really underwhelming.

I like some of the more Williams influenced tracks like Polyjuice Potion or Sky Battle. Also the Lovegood track is lovely and Snape to Malfoy's Manor has a nice dark power.

To be honest, i didnt know Alexandre Desplat before this score. So i can't compare his previous efforts but considered the chance this Potter movie provided for him, it is extremely dissapointing that he didnt deliver something more worthy in the end.

This is lightyears behind all Williams scores and on par with Hoopers Order of the Phoenix. As Potter music it is in front of Doyle's GoF but as music without connection to the film it even ends below GoF.

Alexandre Desplat definetly isnt the hope for near future score masterpieces. Maybe he will be 20 years from now but this Potter proves the opposite for the near future.

View Postfommes, on 21 November 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

View PostFiery Angel, on 12 November 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

Hmmm let's look at a summary of the arguments for and against this score:

1. The detractors use adjectives like "boring" to put forth their position

2. The advocates have included specific music examples and have appeared to be more objective in their description of why they enjoy the score.

This is wrong in a number of FACTS and OMITTING A LOT ;):P:)

1.) The detractors use adjectives like boring AND

Score being largely unmemorable

Employing weak motifs and hardly anything long enough to be worth a theme

Failing in having an easy recognizable thematic voice throughout the whole score

Scrapping the approach ALL the other Potter movies had with delivering strong melodies (even Hooper had them- Umbridge, Fireworks, In Noctem, Dumbledore's army)

Failed and dissapointing Hedwig's Theme movie opening (too quiet, too short Hedwig's statement, not even orchestrations)

Completely failing in continuity with delivering only the minimum (and that almost unrecognizably quiet in the movie)

2.) The advoctes said that this score fits the movie perfectly and is superb

They offered musical examples by saying things even most naysayers agree with....that there are some great tracks in there

They said another thing everyone agrees here: The orchestrations are great and through Conrad Pope and Desplats writing style they connect with Williams style of orchestration (which is good but doesnt help when the melodies are bad)

They bring on old arguments like no other music would fit this movie, it is so dark, no one can use Williams themes other than himself which are superficial, biased and seem NOT thought through.

(They are easily proven to be wrong in a lots of ways: There would definitely be other approaches that would fit the movie, there always are. Not only one way is right and thats true for the whole life too

The movie is dark but the old scores were also very dark in a lot of ways...everyone forgets that. Largely darker than anything Hooper has done (Voldemort Themes, dementors, shrieking shrack, Window to the Past, etc.......

The fact that only Williams can use his themes well is completely subjective and i cannot agree at all. I loved the opening of Order of the Phoenix, the use of Hedwigs in the Room of Requirement, the statement of Hedwig's theme in the opening of GoF and on the train to Hogwarts in HbP)

@fommes:

If the motifs werent weak nobody would be dissapointed... Of course there are some fanboys who love them and hear the score 20 times till they remember them, but that doesnt make them good nor

memorable.

Did you see lots of people complaining about window to the past, family theme, hedwig's theme, etc....no because they are great for everyone. Do you see the weakness of your argumentation-probably not?

I hope that people with an opinion like you never get near movie franchises. With your approval of scrapping and destroying continuity most movie franchises would have been much weaker and less successfull like Star wars, Indiana Jones, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings. You are so wrong in your opinion i can't even put it in words.

You in addition prove you don't know PoA well.

PoA did not scrap continuity. Hedwig's theme was used more than double the times than in every other non Williams Potter movie. Did you get it now, the continuity WAS NOT destroyed by Williams himself. Is it so hard to count the appearance of old themes? And the Quidditch theme was also used in the end!

What does my preference for Hedwig's theme has to do with the fact that other composers CAN use it well?

The other approaches would fit a non franchise movie without an established voice from 6 former films. It's unbelievable how you approve of completely scrapping the musical approach set forth in six movies before.....................

Do you think about the things you write? Why ffs is having an easy recognizable thematic voice DUMBING the movie down? Do you listen to lots of film scores that provide that? Is Star Trek The Motion Picture dumbed down? Is Jurassic Park dumbed down? Is Superman dumbed down? Is Star Wars dumbed down? What are you talking about?

Why don't you accept different opinions, why don't you discuss. You always cite the same arguments in support of Desplat's abandoning of continuity and ignore the arguments against it.

And if for example i try to explain my problem with that approach you declare me as extreme JW fanboy.. that's not fair

Maybe you should read my posts some pages ago. I help you with that and put my problems with Desplat's approach in this post again so that you don't have to look for it. If you again ignore my points it proves to me that you don't want a serious discussion at all.

(EDIT: The made up percentage numbers are just used to let you understand my point, nothing more ....)

1) Desplat, Hooper and Doyle in my opinion seem narrow minded. They could do 90% own stuff and 10% of established "other peoples music" material and they still would satisfy almost everyone. Obviously even 90 percent new stuff seems not enough for these guys, they want 98 percent own stuff and because the studio requires Hedwig's theme they use it in 2% of the score.

(The percentage numbers are just my guess)

Why not deliver some treats to the fans by rearranging some old themes instead of scrapping all, and doing as if the former films dont exist? These composers or directors therefore seem to be pure egoists!

(and thats an observation everyone can make just by looking at the facts. This observation is propably a little "in your face" but i think if composers read these boards they will cope with a little critizism. They are free to post here maybe using a pseudonym or even their real name to discuss these things if they want)

2) Why are you still saying that using some of Williams themes and Hedwig's themes more often would artistically limit Desplat/Hooper/Doyle in their originality. Wouldnt 90& original own material and 10% established themes be enough?

In my opinion (and probably everyone elses because it just wouldnt make sense otherwise) you are still original enough if you can do what you want for 90% of the film. Don't you agree? Or is there an invisible border at 98% own stuff you aren't allowed to pass to stay original enough?

3) What do you respond to the claim that if composers accept the job to work on a franchise they should expect to use established material? They can also refuse the job anyway if they want to do all in all original films. So in the end it is always their choice

4) Another big problem is that Desplat (and he was the only one) didnt deliver own memorable themes. I can't say if he couldnt come up with better motifs or just changed the approach but this is serious. In a franchise so dependent on its themes you just can't abandon everything old without delivering something new thematic and memorable. It's like one important element of Potter music misses now.

Im thrilled what you will say in defense of Desplat here...

5) I read one comment claiming that the new Potter films are self contained. That cannot be true because all the build up on this epic 8 movie story was done over all the films. If you only watch the new film you have no clue what's going on. There is no exposition anymore.

( The only film who would work self contained was the first one)

6) As some of you mentioned i have to agree that a lot what went wrong musically has to be blamed on Yates and also on the producers. They seem to never had or have lost their musical sense.

View Postgkgyver, on 30 October 2010 - 02:27 PM, said:

View Postjoey225, on 29 October 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

The closed minded-ness here is disgusting me. Having listened to it all, I like it very much. Desplat brought a new sound to the series and a new style of composition, and it works. A lot of you are just way to set in what you like, and many of you were prepared to hate this score before you heard a note of it. Open your minds a bit. Heck, I hated most of the Ron Jones box samples that I heard, yet I just bought it and plan to give it a fair shot. Ben-Hur bored me to death at first, to be honest, but after hearing El Cid and revisting Ben-Hur it suddenly clicked. Just give it a fair shot! One or two listens, out of context of the film no less, are sometimes not enough.

I don't think you quite understood me.

I like the "new style of composition" very much, it's just that, without any more elaborate identity of the score, it leaves a very bitter aftertaste.

And would people please stop justifying the complete upside-down turning of the music by Hooper and Desplat by comparing it to Prisoner Of Azkaban?

Such a comparison is monstrously invalid, since PoA not only sounded like a Harry Potter score (which all that followed did not), it also filled the thematic void with a bagful of themes that are at least as vibrant as any that Williams wrote for Philosopher's Stone and Chamber Of Secrets.

So unless the six additional score tracks on the DH Special Edition reveal another Window To The Past or Double Trouble, stop the nonsense!

I agree 100 percent (i also like Desplat's technical effort and full orchestra treatment but they aren't worth much with scrapping continuity and themes).

These lame comparisons do nothing but weaken all Desplat lovers original arguments further. John Williams did not, in any way change the continuity with Prisoner of Azkaban. He kept the thematic structur with the same "franchise main theme" spread throughout the whole(!) score and two excellent new center point themes for the movie!

And they felt Harry Potter, they sounded like Harry Potter...

Where is this happening in Hoopers scores or Desplat's effort. They both more or less don't care about this huge franchise with its clearly established musical voice and approach and that is so lame and dissapointing. You cannot take this job and do completely your own stuff, that's not the way franchises work.

If you arent narrow minded you can do 90% own stuff and 10% of established "other peoples music" material and you will satisfy almost everyone. Obviously even 90 percent new stuff is not enough for these guys, they want 98 percent own stuff and because the studio requires Hedwig's theme they use it in 2% of the score.

(The percentage numbers are just my guess)

Why deliver some treats to the fans by rearranging some old themes if you can just scrap all, do as if the former films dont exist and just write new music? These composers or directors seem to be pure egoists!!!

You need the recognizability of established themes (and John Williams first three scores define this franchise). Franchises are always compared between themselves and Harry Potter is in that way in terms of music far below Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, even Superman.

If Desplat, Hooper or Doyle only want to do their own stuff they should have stayed away from film franchises. Because there this approach won't work or let's better say it works somehow (for all Hooper and Desplat lovers but the simple Potter fan hasn't heard Desplat's name before and probably wonders where all the themes are) but always with a huge dissapointing aftertaste in the mouth if you see all the possibilities a continuous thematic identity would have provided.

Only Doyle in that way kept the thematic approach but he completely changed the musical style and lacked magic and medieval flare.

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You still offer only subjective reasoning sf1. Your posts only offer an explanation as to what you don't like about the score, not objective musical analysis. If you cannot see this I fear your argumentative skills are on par with your music analysis skills.

If you just expressed your concerns with how it affects you than you'd get left alone but you're most certainly not offering any deep musical nor film score epiphanies in your posts. And acting out in frustration to those who take you to task for it only makes you look childish.

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You still offer only subjective reasoning sf1. Your posts only offer an explanation as to what you don't like about the score, not objective musical analysis. If you cannot see this I fear your argumentative skills are on par with your music analysis skills.

If you just expressed your concerns with how it affects you than you'd get left alone but you're most certainly not offering any deep musical nor film score epiphanies in your posts. And acting out in frustration to those who take you to task for it only makes you look childish.

Hey you forgot to respond to my former post regarding your expertly for sure non childish argumentation by insulting with the word bullshit. Now your perfectly nice expressed insultations in this post diminish the credibility further.

I have to disagree again. The following statements are indeed objective arguments - For the majority the movies would be better with good continuity, a recognizable thematical voice, more effort from the composer and director, better and more memorable melodies, a louder mix, an end credits suite for the soundtrack album

I will never insult you because that's not my style. I respect your opinion but you obviously don't respect mine which is sad. Even sader is the fact that you say that this makes me look childish and that you really believe that my posts are subjective and yours not. I can just give you the advise that insulting anyone who is in a discussion puts you always in the lower non credible position.

Thank god i'm not alone with my critique. And you will someday realize that not everyone who shares my frustration with this score is childish.

If you ask me i think you are blinded by Desplat Fandom and can't properly accept or admit any shortcomings that this score has. ;) And by the way you even are wrong again in your statement that i only offer an explanation as to what i don't like about the score. Why posting untrue statements like this, last resort?

You can read back in my other posts that i consider this score mediocre and not bad and even great in orchestration and technique which means i like that very much. I also like Sky Battle, Polijuice Potion and Lovegood. So do you see your one sided argumentation. Like politicians you only mention what's supporting you.

And here is the explanation you asked for:

Williams themes are stronger than the themes/motifs of Desplat's Potter because they are much more complex and longer, offer B-parts and are developed more consistently. They in addition are memorable even after only the first listen or the first time you see the movie. When the music takes centerfront with the good thematic material everyone gets aware of the score, where in case of Desplat the music often isn't even conciously noticed and even when noticed (skybattle) nothing stays without 5 listening sessions of the track.

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Dave, I would encourage you to use your great depth and breadth of knowledge in music to give those of us who see this wonderful score for what is a better understanding of its construction, rather than trying to defend a score that needs no defense.

I love reading those posts you write, and am not particularly fond of watching you arguing with brick walls. ;)

To put it another way: I believe young Harry, Ron and Hermione made a serious mistake in the first book/movie. When Quirrel yelled "Troll in the dungeon!" they all should have just ignored it, and the miserable thing would have imploded from the lack of attention, and everyone could have better spent their time enjoying the great feast before them.

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Dave, I would encourage you to use your great depth and breadth of knowledge in music to give those of us who see this wonderful score for what is a better understanding of its construction, rather than trying to defend a score that needs no defense.

I would like to read that too. And Incanus' thoughts as well. Always a pleasure to read. I wish I could be as articulate as you two (Yes, I know it sounds a bit saccharine.)

Karol - who just wants to move on (They don't like the score? That's fine with me).

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The next movie should just be tracked with Ive's The Unanswered Question. I'd like to see the complaints against that one.

They ought to let Zimmer or one of his cronies score it, then we could really have some fun.

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The next movie should just be tracked with Ive's The Unanswered Question. I'd like to see the complaints against that one.

Actually they should track it to Varese's Arcana. I think that's dark enough for Satan.

That'll scare the crap outta everyone. :lol:

Or if they want some real melodic oomph, they can use the entire canon of Prokofiev. A little Romeo and Juliet for the romance parts, Scythian Suite for the ominous stuff, Peter and the Wolf for the whimsical sections, and Fiery Angel for the Voldemort material.

Or else you could lift large sections of Bartok. Concerto for Orchestra, The Miraculous Mandarin, The Wooden Prince, and that lovely chestnut Music for Strings, Percussion and Celeste.

Speaking of which, I'm sure the same people who cry that Desplat didn't give them any themes are the same folks who'd get all the way through Concerto for Orchestra and all declare they heard no themes. :(

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Dave, I would encourage you to use your great depth and breadth of knowledge in music to give those of us who see this wonderful score for what is a better understanding of its construction, rather than trying to defend a score that needs no defense.

I would like to read that too. And Incanus' thoughts as well. Always a pleasure to read. I wish I could be as articulate as you two (Yes, I know it sounds a bit saccharine.)

Karol - who just wants to move on (They don't like the score? That's fine with me).

I posted a track-by-track analysis of the music on page 16 of this thread but that is just based on one night's listens of the album so I do not know the context as I have yet to see the film. So my assignment of names for the themes is pure conjecture and could be wrong. If someone who has seen the film could enlighten me on them I would be much obliged. On a whole I like this score but from what I have gathered from the discussion in this and other HP DH threads is that the movie really did require a more mature and toned down score and the music wasn't allowed many instances to shine in the film because of what must have been director's wishes and the poor mixing. Desplat conjures mostly a troubled atmosphere but lightens the mood once in a while with small doses of whimsical and magical.

I have heard the three bonus tracks and what I can say about them is that Voldemort is pure atmospherics and near sound design until a quick nod to his/Death Eaters' theme at the end.

The Dumbledores features what I gather is the lingering and melancholy Dumbledore theme heard on the album a couple of times and a darker melody that could be either a variation on the main theme or something related to Voldemort perhaps and this goes to the main theme and ends with a flute melody heard at the beginning of Hermione's Parents. You could call this track thematically dense but subtle, Desplat's motifs weaving in and out in quick succession.

Bellatrix contains no discernible link to the thematic material, consisting of tense ostinati for strings and furious string and brass burst in the middle. It relates to the action style in the latter half of the album in general which is Desplat's sophisticated brutality at work. The aforemetioned tight bursts of brass and strings and motoric string figures churning with woodwinds in the wings (perhaps a nod to JWs action approach).

I think this film must have been very challenging assignment for Desplat or any composer for that matter. He had to take into account the John Williams factor, the man who created the initial sound of this particular musical world, had to listen to the wishes of the director, had to look at the mature tone of the film and express that through his music. Desplat walks between the two musical worlds in his music, the outwardly expressive and colorful old Hogwarts Williams created and the more austere and darker and bleaker world of the new Potter films. In this situation he has succeeded quite well. Desplat chose to write (and the film demanded) very subtle music for the film for the most part, the musical ideas weave in small cells throughout the music and do not exactly set the world on fire on the first listen. But as usual for his music these smaller themes are persistent and on multiple listens I have found them if not spell bindingly compelling then at the very least enjoyable. I perhaps lament that the magic of the Potter world itself has died as the characters mature, magic has become a way to beat foes into pulp or preserve pieces of your soul into objects and the sense of wonder is gone as life and death situations do not allow much wide-eyed wonderment. For character arc this is compelling stuff but usually this means that the film goes for realitism and in many instances realitism equals to many directors and film makers musical subtlety.

P.S. is the score album in chronological order? And does anyone have an idea where these bonus tracks fit in there?

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The next movie should just be tracked with Ive's The Unanswered Question. I'd like to see the complaints against that one.

Speaking of which, I'm sure the same people who cry that Desplat didn't give them any themes are the same folks who'd get all the way through Concerto for Orchestra and all declare they heard no themes. :unsure:

Haha, very true!

Perhaps score the battle of Hogwarts with the finale from the 1812 overture.

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Good themes and melodies can be injected everywhere and dont have to be subtle even when realism and darkness are ocurring.

It's so funny that if these "so called" Desplat themes i only call motifs were written by Jablonski or Rahmani you would tear them to pieces but

in this case it is the unbelievable Desplat where the same weak thematic material gets suddenly great...

This is called fanboyism! (Not everything Desplat does is right and good. Otherwise there wouldnt be people dissapointed with his scores.)

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Good themes and melodies can be injected everywhere and dont have to be subtle even when realism and darkness are ocurring.

It's so funny that if these "so called" Desplat themes i only call motifs were written by Jablonski or Rahmani you would tear them to pieces but

in this case it is the unbelievable Desplat where the same weak thematic material gets suddenly great...

This is called fanboyism! (Not everything Desplat does is right and good. Otherwise there wouldnt be people dissapointed with his scores.)

I am far from being a Desplat fanboy and am not entirely won over by this latest score. Still I see some merits and positive points in it. It is certainly not overflowing with melody no, but that does not topple the entire score for me. I completely understand your disappointment and sympathize to a degree. But I am trying to be positive instead of being negative.

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yeah I'm going to retract my "it sucks" comments. It's just not as good as I expected and I won't be playing it much except a few cues I'll drag into a Potter playlist

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I'm still confused as to why Amazon says Track 1 is "Obliviate" but my CD case says "The Obliviation."

I might just call it "First Few Chapters Compressed Into 3:02" instead.

At any rate, even though I was generously given a free copy by the internet, I enjoy this score enough to have given Walmart my 11.88 for a pressed copy, and plan to give Apple more money for the missing tracks. I thought many of the cues worked wonderfully in the movie, and I walked out with two main themes (Snape to Malfoy Manor and Ministry of Magic) sounding off in my head.

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Having now seen the film more than once, there seems to be a lot of score on the OST that is not in film at all, like Desplat filled in the gaps musically to make a complete experience on record. The film has a lot of moments with no score. Really, the style of this film would not suit the style of musical writing of ANY of the other films in the series. After the first hour, the movie tonally feels closer to something like 'Saving Private Ryan' than the other Harry's (except maybe OotP, which is the closest counterpart tone wise to DHpt1)

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Good themes and melodies can be injected everywhere and dont have to be subtle even when realism and darkness are ocurring.

It's so funny that if these "so called" Desplat themes i only call motifs were written by Jablonski or Rahmani you would tear them to pieces but

in this case it is the unbelievable Desplat where the same weak thematic material gets suddenly great...

This is called fanboyism! (Not everything Desplat does is right and good. Otherwise there wouldnt be people dissapointed with his scores.)

I like Desplat's Potter. End of story. I don't need to qualify it after all the endless observations I have put forth or Bluemenkohl or others have. I know he would like me to elaborate with some more musical observations (thanks for the nice comments BTW!) but iI honestly don't have the time these days. Those who like the score don't need musical analyses to help them to like it. Those who don't IMO have turned a blind eye to all of the terrific observations by us "fan boys" while offering no real solid reasoning aside from the most basic superficial observations. That's my reaction.

At the end of the day, I see this as satisfying anyhow. Desplat has been hired to score the second film, I continually play HP7 pt1 and enjoy it and get a lot out of each listening and that's what's really important. I've enjoyed conversing with fellow enthusiasts and observing those little jewels within the score. That's what makes forums like this fun. :unsure:

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Concerning the whole movie score some things i noticed (Spoiler Warning):

Lovegood's motif doesnt appear at all. Yates cut it out completely.

Hedwig's 5 seconds theme statement found in "The Will" was not used too.

There are two very quiet and short (about 4 seconds each) unreleased Hedwig's theme statements besides the unreleased opening: The first occurs at the end of Harry under the staircase in the Dursleys home and the second at the end of the scene when Dobby dies

Other than the first two bars of Hedwig's Theme no (!) older material has been used

Hm i guess Yates wasn't satisfied as well with parts of Desplat's score but he cut out the stronger pieces (Lovegood) which for me proves his bad taste in music

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Hm i guess Yates wasn't satisfied as well with parts of Desplat's score...

For sure, a more firm application of Hedwig's Theme would've made all the difference.

Yeah he surely cut out Lovegoods motif by accident, it happens you know

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I'd rather remember some classic John Williams' scores for their greatness and hear fresh ideas, than ask him to return to a franchise after a long absence and be underwhelmed that he could not live up the grand expectations set forth by the community.

Oh wait, were we talking about Indiana Jones or Harry Potter?

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Now the Desplat fans start to bash Indiana Jones and the KotCS, what a shame. Desplat could never even come close to KotCS

Well he certainly couldn't do any worse.

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