The Dark Knight Rises

[Koray Savas 2,251]

[MSM 126]

TDK was an awful watch and by no means a good movie. Batman Begins was operatic, I loved it.

I hope in the third one they go for less darkness, more gadgets.

They title, who cares.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I enjoyed TDK, but thought it was stupidly overrated by the fanboys. And I agree that Bale as Batman is absolutely character-less. Ledger stole the show.

I always had the impression WB funded Inception merely because he made them a billion dollars from TDK. He must be able to personally rummage through the executives' wallets by now.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Only on JWFan can a movie be "overrated by fanboys" when it was a critical and commercial powerhouse.

[Brónach 1,302]

TDK an awful watch?

Why?

[Wojo 2,453]

Kevin Conroy is my Batman. Heath Ledger's sounds like he is trying to beat laryngitis.

[Jay 37,353]

Kevin Conroy is my Batman. Heath Ledger's sounds like he is trying to beat laryngitis.

Heath Ledger did not play Batman

[Wojo 2,453]

Damnit, why did I write that. I meant Morgan Freeman.

[Jay 37,353]

[Matt C 453]

That's my concern too. If TDK was Batman's Empire Strikes Back-kind of sequel, then TDKR might be Return of the Jedi, which means going back to the roots of Batman Begins. I hope Nolan isn't going to take that route.

I can't see Nolan revisiting BB or TDK much in the next film. There might be references, but I doubt it'll be "toyetic" or retread old ground in the previous films. That's what I liked about BB and TDK, they're both so different from each other tonally but at the same time they're consistent. They make a fine double-feature.

[Kevin 22]

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Only on JWFan can a movie be "overrated by fanboys" when it was a critical and commercial powerhouse.

Or the only site where a Boxoffice hit is regarded as a bomb.

[Datameister 2,042]

Only on JWFan can a movie be "overrated by fanboys" when it was a critical and commercial powerhouse.

That's true. A reasonable person would realize that the film was overrated by everyone.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Why not Tom Cruise as Batman, Shia LaBeouf as Robin, Johnny Depp as Catwoman, and Liam Neeson as Riddler - for the marketable dose of dignity - under the helm of legendary Joel Schumacher.

Music by Steve Jablonsky and Trevor Rabin

Original Title Song by Motorhead, co-produced by Hans Zimmer.

That ought to rock the balls off Christopher Nolan.

In retrospect, it's a miracle Clooney survived Batman & Robin.

[crocodile 8,010]

He's better director than actor anyway.

Karol

[Wojo 2,453]

In retrospect, it's a miracle Clooney survived Batman & Robin.

That was on FX the other day. I tried staying up late to watch it, because the "Alfred getting sick" story is kind of touching, in a "I have to find something watchable in this pile of dreck" kind of way. That movie was so beneath Michael Gough, who was still wonderful regardless.

But when Bane pushed the guys out of the way when he and Ivy usurped the underground lair, and the "zing" sound effect was there, it really struck me the kind of crap they put in the movie. That, and Batman's molded nipples really stood out on the small screen. I switched to flipping between Otis and In God's Country until I couldn't take being awake that late anymore.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Clooney said he made Batman gay.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The music is awesome, though. Someone needs to get that released.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm sure LLL will get it eventually.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Shame they didn't do it before the Elfman.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

TDK is/was brilliant and was far from overrated.

Batman Begins was mediocre and overrated.

Indeed.

[Wojo 2,453]

Both movies stood head and shoulders above the previous two in the franchise, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

Indeed.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

None of the Batman movies were really that good until Nolan came along.

Yep.

[Datameister 2,042]

TDK is/was brilliant and was far from overrated.

Batman Begins was mediocre and overrated.

Indeed.

Hardly. Batman Begins had a plot that could be followed and appreciated. TDK is shot in an incomprehensible way, with a poorly conveyed plot that feels like two movies jammed into one. It's well-loved because of the cool factor, the faux-philosophical brooding about good and evil and what Gotham needs, and above all, Ledger's stellar performance. But fluff aside, Batman Begins is the better film by far.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

TDK is/was brilliant and was far from overrated.

Batman Begins was mediocre and overrated.

Indeed.

Hardly. Batman Begins had a plot that could be followed and appreciated. TDK is shot in an incomprehensible way, with a poorly conveyed plot that feels like two movies jammed into one. It's well-loved because of the cool factor, the faux-philosophical brooding about good and evil and what Gotham needs, and above all, Ledger's stellar performance. But fluff aside, Batman Begins is the better film by far.

What exactly is incomprehensible about TDK? KM mentioned the same thing.

[crocodile 8,010]

Is it just me or are we trapped in some kind of time loop?

Karol

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Is it just me or are we trapped in some kind of time loop?

Karol

Aren't we always?

[crocodile 8,010]

Ah well, never mind. I'm off to "What Is the last film you watched" thread to start my weekly Inception rant.

BTW where is that JG vs. JW poll? It's getting late!

Karol

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Ah well, never mind. I'm off to "What Is the last film you watched" thread to start my weekly Inception rant.

Karol

I'm keeping away from that thread in case I read any more spoilers

[Datameister 2,042]

Somehow, I feel as if we've had this conversation before...

No, but seriously, something about the editing and writing in TDK makes it extremely difficult for me to track what's going on. I'm constantly thinking, Wait, what just happened? What did he say? And then on the macro scale, something about creating AND (ostensibly) killing Two-Face in the second half of the same film really rubs me the wrong way. Batman Begins has a clear plot arc and it has a lot of the same "cool factor" while being a lot easier to follow. TDK feels more like a bunch of action scenes, intense Joker performances, and philosophical blabbering strung together at a brisk enough pace to distract somewhat from the film's weaknesses.

[Jay 37,353]

How would you have liked the film to have ended?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

BB had a clear simple plot line because it only really needed to do one thing. Batman needed to be Batman by the end of the film. It feels like a smoother ride because the villain of the piece spends a lot of his screen time with Bruce, whereas the Joker runs in and out of the film and makes it feel idiosyncratic. Someone compared him to the shark in Jaws, which is on the money really. But this is where it clearly starts to divide some people, by example You and I. Add Harvey to this, and to you it feels disjointed, to me it feels like a rich world has been further expanded, and the themes that stand out from this world are directly linked to the first film. What you call faux-philosophical blabbering, I call relevant and thoughtful questions, and the way they're treated allows the film to transcend the genre. But what I love the most about the film is that the film has a companion that it perhaps should be compared with, but it isn't Batman Begins. It's Heat.

But yeah, we've been around this block a few times

[Datameister 2,042]

How would you have liked the film to have ended?

I'm honestly not sure. But it's not just the ending...in fact, considering the way the rest of the film went, I think they ended it the best way they could have. But something about the film as a whole doesn't do it for me.

I don't have a problem with the Joker being off-camera so much, by the way. It certainly leaves you wanting more, but I think that's okay. Better than overstaying his welcome. Nothing wrong with a phantom menace.

Crap, I never thought those last six words would come out of my mouth in that order.

[Ollie 1,059]

I've gone on record as saying I felt TDK should have pushed Two-Face to the third film. I felt his storyline was wrapped up too quickly.

[Brónach 1,302]

I think the way the character was built it wouldn't have worked in a third film.

He was "designed to die" by the writers. To have the Joker win, and Batman on the run.

[Jay 37,353]

Yep. The first time I saw the film I though they packed too much into one movie, and they should have saved Two Face for the third film.

But upon subsequent viewings, you realize he made one LONG movie to get Batman to be where he wanted him to be at the end of a second act of a three act story he is telling

[Wojo 2,453]

The first time I saw TDK was a literal pain in the neck.

We got there late and had to sit in the second row from the screen, which meant super-slouch down and look straight up.

---

Perhaps the inclusion of Selina Kyle in this installment makes better sense. Batman is on the run, a masked vigilante who has fallen out of favor in the public eye. They believe Batman has killed a public icon in order to seek justice, even though they don't understand the circumstances by which Dent was killed. (I suppose we're supposed to ignore the deaths of Ra's Al Ghoul's men any other collaterally killed bad guys along the way, in favor of Batman's typical nonlethal methods.)

I've never really thought of Catwoman as a villain. She's an anti-heroine, she can see the goal of the greater good, but her methods disregard the law. She'll kill if she sees it necessary, and of course she's a master cat burglar. This puts her at odds with Batman, who has a more rigid view of the law. Maybe she will provide the catalyst necessary for Batman to return to public favor, and ride off into the sunset in Nolan's view of the Batman universe.

[Red 75]

Yep. The first time I saw the film I though they packed too much into one movie, and they should have saved Two Face for the third film.

But upon subsequent viewings, you realize he made one LONG movie to get Batman to be where he wanted him to be at the end of a second act of a three act story he is telling

It is an epic film, from the huge IMAX cinematography to the scope of the story and its characters. And yes it's all there ultimately for that last scene where Batman falls on the sword and rides off in exile, which no doubt will be the jumping-off point for the third and final installment. Both Batman films are unique and self-contained in some ways but they are still parts of a whole that hasn't been fully concluded yet.

[gkgyver 1,645]

None of the Batman movies were really that good until Nolan came along.

Yep.

What?

"Batman" was, and is, an outstanding film, and "Batman Returns" is a great piece of dark, bizarre filmmaking.

[Brónach 1,302]

My problem with Burton's Batmans is that they feel static, they don't really push the story forward. If it wasn't for that they would be brilliant examples of, well, this cute fantasy tone they have (I can't explain it better right now).

[MSM 126]

TDK an awful watch?

Why?

it just wasn't entertaining. i didn't have a moment of fun watching it in the cinema. it took itself (ironically) far too serious. good acting, yes, but there;s more needed to make something a good movie. if i want too see people jeopardized or terrorized, i'd watch a movie about terrorism.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

it just wasn't entertaining. i didn't have a moment of fun watching it in the cinema. it took itself (ironically) far too serious. good acting, yes, but there;s more needed to make something a good movie. if i want too see people jeopardized or terrorized, i'd watch a movie about terrorism.

Just admit it, you were expecting this movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGWmJPToolM

[Brónach 1,302]

TDK an awful watch?

Why?

it just wasn't entertaining. i didn't have a moment of fun watching it in the cinema. it took itself (ironically) far too serious. good acting, yes, but there;s more needed to make something a good movie. if i want too see people jeopardized or terrorized, i'd watch a movie about terrorism.

I don't think it took itself all that serious as people point out. To put an example, I think the whole "crazy dude in clown makeup creates chaos and is always ahead of everybody else" angle was very entertaining because it took the story constantly in unexpected directions. That was very cinematic.

[Delorean90 42]

Honestly, I think the perceived "over-seriousness" can be blamed on the score. As with Begins, TDK has plenty of moments of levity, and parts that are meant to be exciting, but the score is just unrelentingly gray and moody. No color, no excitement, no acknowledgment that there is any other facet to the film than "THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS."

[Ollie 1,059]

Fortunately TDK was good enough to make you forget how bland the music was. And it's mixed in with everything so it doesn't stand out too much.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The movie actually improved the music, provided it with a dramatic weight that is not there when you listen to the score on it's own.

[Datameister 2,042]

The score definitely doesn't discourage people like me from thinking the whole thing is a little too into its own moodiness.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

TDK an awful watch?

Why?

it just wasn't entertaining. i didn't have a moment of fun watching it in the cinema. it took itself (ironically) far too serious. good acting, yes, but there;s more needed to make something a good movie. if i want too see people jeopardized or terrorized, i'd watch a movie about terrorism.

Were you the guy who said The Godfather could never be the greatest film of all time because it was too violent? Are you not familiar with the comic book genre? What tends to happen is this: You've got a theatrical hero with a double-life, and he/she tends to fight off crazy bad guys that terrorize the innocent.

[Henry B 50]

A score like Danny Elfman's Batman would have made The Dark Knight seem farcical. Zimmer's score was just what it needed.

[Delorean90 42]

Ah, yes, because those were the only options.