Troy: Gabriel Yared

[Jay 37,346]

Actually posting links to youtube doesn't violate any rules here at all.

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't need your civil war...

[Ollie 1,059]

Even if it's bootleg material?

Oh well it doesn't matter because most of that stuff is being yanked off of youtube.

Why do they spend so much energy shutting down low-quality video clips of the movie with snippets of rejected score, while the complete rejected score in stunning quality is so much easier to find and remains available?

Or is that next?

As I keep mentioning, these boards are being watched. The Delerue estate contacted FSM when someone was posting youtube clips on the message board that featured his rejected score to Something Wicked This Way Comes and asked for them to be removed.

[Jay 37,346]

Bootleg, commercial, whatever - we can link to places that have video files or stream stuff, we just cant link to a place to download it

That's crazy about Delurue's SWTWC.... it was youtube hosting the files, there was no reason for them to contact FSM

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Discord between moderators!

The end is night.....

[Ollie 1,059]

Bootleg, commercial, whatever - we can link to places that have video files or stream stuff, we just cant link to a place to download it

That's crazy about Delurue's SWTWC.... it was youtube hosting the files, there was no reason for them to contact FSM

It doesn't matter, it's illegal material and Lukas cannot allow that to be linked to or posted on his website if he wants to continue with releasing music and working with the studios. He's mentioned that over the years.

Plus FSM is the main message board in the film score community and it's visited by quite a few within the industry. We see plenty of evidence for that.

[Jay 37,346]

Good points!

[crocodile 8,000]

You know what's really ironic about the two Troy scores? They both sound better outside of the film. Which I had a misfortune to see in a cinema. And yes, the end credits made it even worse. Even Goldsmith wouldn't have a clue what to do with it.

Karol

[Wojo 2,453]

I loathed the film because I expected to see the gods and goddesses taking a more active role in the action, including the explanation of just why Achilles' heel is vulnerable.

[Nemesis 245]

I will never watch Troy.

But I really do like Yared's score very much.

Somehow he can be thankfully that his great music isn't linked to this bad movie.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Does anyone know a place to get good quality high necked shoes from turkey?

without any loss in the quality of the leather during the process from cow to shoe.

i hope that makes sense

[Wojo 2,453]

Alto y claro...

[crocodile 8,000]

Yeah I wanted to find these shoes as well. The others are not very reliable, to be honest.

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

And I will add this, Yared, as well as whoever was responsible for making the music available, openly criticizing Warner Brothers, even though he had every right to, didn't help matters in this situation. And leaking the music, handing out promos is probably a good reason as to why a proper release may never happen.

On the other hand it would had never happened anyway, so at least we got to hear part of the work.

How many rejected scores get released? Not enough of them...

What about Shore's king kong?

It's been 5 years already...nothing in the horizon.

I could have lived with shore having a hissy fit

[crocodile 8,000]

Well, you've got like 5-6 seconds of Shore's King Kong in one of the web-docs. That's something!

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

heh

but that webdoc in not available in the EE DVDs. as it never existed...

[David Coscina 3]

I would love to hear Shore's King Kong. I think it would have been pretty terrific.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

To those comparing the two works: Do you know what is the difference between 10 months and 10 days?

I wonder what the two scores would have sounded like if the situation was the other way around. Then we would know for sure how weak or strong Horner's score really is. As it stands it is really unfair to compare the two. No one but the insiders has seen the film with the original score in it.

Nope.

AVATAR. How much time had horner with this? How many times both cameron and Horner told us he had created a master piece?

And in the end its just like troy, a bunch of classical rip offs mixxed with more self-rip offs.

Even if avatar was fine, i was expecting LOTR depth, not the average enjoyable score we ended having.

[publicist 4,643]

Even if avatar was fine, i was expecting LOTR depth, not the average enjoyable score we ended having.

This wasn't up to Horner, Cameron was very vocal what he wanted...and that included apocalyptic choral chants MV style and the danger motif. At least Horner said so in an interview.

As for Yared vs. Horner, i never found the soundscapes both composers employed to be that different, it's just the usual example of Hollywood throwing good money away because they just doin't know better. Remove some of the blaring brass statements from Yared's score and nobody would've murmured much. Horner's comment about 50's Hercules music is just gross.

[crocodile 8,000]

Maybe that was an issue with the temporary mix. Who knows?

To those comparing the two works: Do you know what is the difference between 10 months and 10 days?

I wonder what the two scores would have sounded like if the situation was the other way around. Then we would know for sure how weak or strong Horner's score really is. As it stands it is really unfair to compare the two. No one but the insiders has seen the film with the original score in it.

Nope.

AVATAR. How much time had horner with this? How many times both cameron and Horner told us he had created a master piece?

And in the end its just like troy, a bunch of classical rip offs mixxed with more self-rip offs.

Even if avatar was fine, i was expecting LOTR depth, not the average enjoyable score we ended having.

Well, there is some depth to Avatar. At least from a technical standpoint it was quite daunting. I can see what took so much time. Not that it's a masterpiece or anything. But there is a lot of detail in there, no doubt.

But that's not the point. My original post above was about how Yared had an unusually long period of time to create his score. He had TIME to develop his music and too refine everything. You see, I'm not really talking about Horner's Troy at all. I just see no point to compare the two, especially if there is this vast difference in time. When I criticize Yared's effort I'm not saying Horner was better with it. Neither did he.

In fact, they are both uneven.

Karol

[GoodMusician 56]

I think the big thing I have to argue for Yared's score is that it was salvageable. Granted, it was NOT perfect, but no score is! But it wasn't worthy of being thrown away in weeks. All you had to do was play with the mixes, remove this or that sound, edit a few things... and you'd have the breathtaking score that would have truly hightened the film to new levels. Without it, the film faltered. I don't think the directorial eye in the film was all that great. There are hard zooms that remind of me of the old films but just look sloppy today... The film could have been a lot better. The writing and the story was great... great actors (minus Pitt perhaps) but the way we see them isn't very... glorious... it didn't glorify the images and that's a directors fault, not a composers.

[crocodile 8,000]

I remember someone (Ford A. Thaxton, I think) at FSM forum suggesting that the only reason Yared was employed is for tax and funding reasons. Maybe it had nothing to do with artistic reasons, after all...

Karol

[GoodMusician 56]

I'd have to see what he was saying cause I'm not sure I follow... then again, leave it to Thaxton to say something like that.

[crocodile 8,000]

I had a look. That would be this thread. It's was, of course, just a rumour. But knowing Hollywood... not that unlikely.

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I think the big thing I have to argue for Yared's score is that it was salvageable. Granted, it was NOT perfect, but no score is! But it wasn't worthy of being thrown away in weeks. All you had to do was play with the mixes, remove this or that sound, edit a few things...

Yared mentioned he had sessions lined up to perfect cues.... why in the world did WB not just approach him with their concerns and ask him to use those additional orchestra sessions to make some changes?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I think the big thing I have to argue for Yared's score is that it was salvageable. Granted, it was NOT perfect, but no score is! But it wasn't worthy of being thrown away in weeks. All you had to do was play with the mixes, remove this or that sound, edit a few things...

Yared mentioned he had sessions lined up to perfect cues.... why in the world did WB not just approach him with their concerns and ask him to use those additional orchestra sessions to make some changes?

I think Horner's on to something here though. Yared seemed to have wanted to obfuscate. Lay it all on thick. Everything from the triple tracked choir to the huge brass section seems to correlate with that. I doubt adding even more layers to the score would have helped.

[GoodMusician 56]

I know right? Take five days to let a person know? He could have been fixing shit by then...

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I think Horner's on to something here though. Yared seemed to have wanted to obfuscate. Lay it all on thick. Everything from the triple tracked choir to the huge brass section seems to correlate with that. I doubt adding even more layers to the score would have helped.

Changing the mix doesn't have to mean adding layers.

In the time it took Horner to write and record, Yared could have re-recorded his entire score with an altered mix.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I think Horner's on to something here though. Yared seemed to have wanted to obfuscate. Lay it all on thick. Everything from the triple tracked choir to the huge brass section seems to correlate with that. I doubt adding even more layers to the score would have helped.

Changing the mix doesn't have to mean adding layers.

In the time it took Horner to write and record, Yared could have re-recorded his entire score with an altered mix.

With 21 brass players and triple tracked choir, no less. Sounds about as pompous and soulless as Horner's Avatar.

[David Coscina 3]

Yared could have easily scaled down things at the directors request but he was never given the opportunity. He said as much to me in an interview in 2004.

[crocodile 8,000]

Yes, and this is the only thing that's terribly wrong here.

Karol

[Morlock 11]

Peterson has shown a lot of backbone in hiring composers, but very little in keeping their scores in the film (Kinda reminiscent of Ridley Scott and composers who aren't Vangelis, Hans Zimmer or Marc Streitenfeld).

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Well i suppose we should thank god that the producers of troy were not the same that produced LOTR or we would have had some crappy scores for these.

[tharpdevenport 4]

I have a way better fucking idea: he changes nothing, and the studio keeps the score.

Seriously, think about it: how many of those test audience people WOULD NOT have seen that crappy film if they kept Yared's score? How many of those members even recalled his name when fillibng out the form? How many would even recall the music a day after seeing the preview?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That is an assumption. Not all test audiences are mindless, gormless simpletons. Even in the US.

As for Horner. We always appreciated Herrmanns honesty, we applauded the frank segments of the now cancelled Goldsmith biography, yet if Horner speaks his mind, people start whining?

I's rather read this James Horner interview then yet another JW one that consists op platitudes and stock answers.

[Ollie 1,059]

No, I've been honest in the past and said Herrmann was a grumpy old ass and I also said Goldsmith comes across as jealous and silly in his arguments against Williams.

Sure I praise Horner for his honesty, I just don't agree with his assessments of Yared's music.

[David Coscina 3]

As for Horner. We always appreciated Herrmanns honesty, we applauded the frank segments of the now cancelled Goldsmith biography, yet if Horner speaks his mind, people start whining?

It's one thing for Horner to give his opinion (although he sounded like sour grapes at the fact he wasn't originally hired) but I cannot stomach the hypocrisy of him accusing Yared of copying Bach when he's plagiarized more Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, and Arvo Part than any other composer in the history of film scoring.

Now, that said, Horner has seemed to have cooled down since 2004. Interviews he gave for Avatar reveal a much different person. Quiet, humble and incisive.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Interview with Horner occurred far later then 2004, I think it was 2009 or 2010.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I also said Goldsmith comes across as jealous and silly in his arguments against Williams.

Goldsmith considered Williams his favorite living composer. And vice versa.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Does someone have a link to the Horner interview in question?

[Ollie 1,059]

On the first page of this thread is the interview.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

That is an assumption. Not all test audiences are mindless, gormless simpletons. Even in the US.

As for Horner. We always appreciated Herrmanns honesty, we applauded the frank segments of the now cancelled Goldsmith biography, yet if Horner speaks his mind, people start whining?

It's more how than what. Yes Herrmann, could be very abrasive, Rosenamn could be arrogant, and Goldsmith could speak his mind. But none of them came off as precious, petty and downright unlikeable as Horner.

Sure, Horner's being honest. But there are many different ways to word that honesty.

[crocodile 8,000]

As for Horner. We always appreciated Herrmanns honesty, we applauded the frank segments of the now cancelled Goldsmith biography, yet if Horner speaks his mind, people start whining?

It's one thing for Horner to give his opinion (although he sounded like sour grapes at the fact he wasn't originally hired) but I cannot stomach the hypocrisy of him accusing Yared of copying Bach when he's plagiarized more Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, and Arvo Part than any other composer in the history of film scoring.

Now, that said, Horner has seemed to have cooled down since 2004. Interviews he gave for Avatar reveal a much different person. Quiet, humble and incisive.

He hasn't accused him of copying anything. He just said there is a certain sensibility to his music (coming from his musical background) that doesn't go very well with big movie like Troy. That his music is more operatic than filmic and that it makes the film as "atrocious" as it is. That's how I read it. And yeah, it's a valid point of view. He didn't say the music is badly written or that Yared is a weak writer. The only thing he was talking about was the marriage between the visuals and the music. And since he has actually seen that version of the film he can say something about it. That, coupled with his long and fruitful career in Hollywood makes him rather trustworthy. And I don't know him in person, so I won't be judging his personality. Nor do I care to.

Karol - who is rather thick-skinned lately

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I would agree with Horner that Yared's score does not meet the required aesthetic of its decade, but I also believe that works to its advantage. It was a bold score challenging the comfort zone of the audience. That is far more than Horner has done in the last decade.

So I say to Horner: take your head out of your ass pansy.

[David Coscina 3]

I would agree with Horner that Yared's score does not meet the required aesthetic of its decade, but I also believe that works to its advantage. It was a bold score challenging the comfort zone of the audience. That is far more than Horner has done in the last decade.

So I say to Horner: take your head out of your ass pansy.

Once again, I heartily agree with you.

And Karol, Horner's remarks about Yared's Bach influence was referring to The English Patient which had nothing to do with Troy. He was being a smug little prick and a total hypocrite.

[crocodile 8,000]

I know. He used The English Patient as an example to show us what Yared's music sounds like in general and then he started to go on about why this kind of sensibilities on grand scale don't make for a good score in Troy. Not that there's much Bach (Priam's fugue, anyone?) in it, but surely its contstructed in much more classical way than most film music. I think that's what he meant.

But I do agree he's not the best person with interviews. In a sense the way he talks about stuff can sometimes sound controversial.

Karol

[A24 4,331]

but surely its contstructed in much more classical way than most film music.

It's an almost old-fashioned score and probably the reason why they declined it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

As for Horner. We always appreciated Herrmanns honesty, we applauded the frank segments of the now cancelled Goldsmith biography, yet if Horner speaks his mind, people start whining?

It's one thing for Horner to give his opinion (although he sounded like sour grapes at the fact he wasn't originally hired) but I cannot stomach the hypocrisy of him accusing Yared of copying Bach when he's plagiarized more Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, and Arvo Part than any other composer in the history of film scoring.

Now, that said, Horner has seemed to have cooled down since 2004. Interviews he gave for Avatar reveal a much different person. Quiet, humble and incisive.

He hasn't accused him of copying anything. He just said there is a certain sensibility to his music (coming from his musical background) that doesn't go very well with big movie like Troy. That his music is more operatic than filmic and that it makes the film as "atrocious" as it is. That's how I read it. And yeah, it's a valid point of view. He didn't say the music is badly written or that Yared is a weak writer. The only thing he was talking about was the marriage between the visuals and the music. And since he has actually seen that version of the film he can say something about it. That, coupled with his long and fruitful career in Hollywood makes him rather trustworthy. And I don't know him in person, so I won't be judging his personality. Nor do I care to.

Karol - who is rather thick-skinned lately

And I looked at the film, and it was -- I don't even know how to describe how atrocious the music was.

It was like a 1950's Hercules movie.

And it wasn't because Gabriel's not a gifted writer, it's because he just doesn't have any knowledge of writing film scores. Real film scores like that. And it was like -- It was so corny. It was unbelievable.

He is describing the quality of the music, IMVHO.

And saying Yared should not compose for film, for real film (which i suppose in horner's mind, means US films, the rest of the world does not make real films. another gem from his part i suppose).

[Morlock 11]

The Interview with Horner occurred far later then 2004, I think it was 2009 or 2010.

I believe it was around 2006- and I, too, sensed that he was being far more generous in the recent interviews.

I think that Horner was being extremely unkind in the interview...but I can also understand being a bit resentful of all the adulation Yared received at his expense and, rightfully or not, Yared also implied that Horner was being a dick by using the same soloist. Horner walked into an uncomfortable situation, and all he got for it was grief from everyone involved. I could understand him being pissed off...Yared's the saintly martyr, Horner's the tactless and talentless hack- it's not a pleasant way to be spoken about. It's a terrible situation, and neither Yared nor Horner were being professional.

[David Coscina 3]

Actually Morlock, when I spoke with Yared right after all this Troy stuff, he asked me if I'd seen the film with Horner's score and I said I didn't care to. He insisted that I did watch it which to me suggested that he had no resentment towards Horner at all. Even with Peterson, Yared was more upset than mad at the way he'd been treated. Unlike a lot of North Americans, Yared's first impulse is not anger. He's the least spiteful person I know. He was just upset at the circumstances but even confidently didn't diss anyone involved. Seriously.