Original Score Oscar mistakes

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

"The Right Stuff" fully deserved to win, in 1984. Whether it deserved to win over "Under Fire" is another matter.

That's the point. Goldsmith's score was really Oscar-worthy, while Conti's score, albeit nice, wasn't as worthy (and it also contains some brazen lifts from Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and Holst's The Planets, but we can pass on that).

I guess that it all comes down to the capriciousness of the Academy on any given year.

I haven't noticed any references to either Tchaikovsky, nor Holst, but I'll listen again. Talking about nicking stuff from the likes of Holst, Walton, and Vaughan Williams, may I refer members of this site to a little something that they might just be familiar with...it's called "Star Wars".

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I'll never understand why The Red Violin, a very mediocre effort, won in 1999 over e.g. Angela's Ashes and American Beauty.

The only reasoning I've heard is that Corigliano had much longer than usual to compose The Red Violin.

But I think American Beauty should've won easily. It marked Newman's shift to having a true personal style and is one of the most imitated sounds these days.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'll never understand why The Red Violin, a very mediocre effort, won in 1999 over e.g. Angela's Ashes and American Beauty.

Oooohh, be careful, you will piss off the musically trained members with that comment.

Goldsmith should have won at least in 1970 (Patton, beaten by Love Story), 1979 (Star Trek), 1983 (Under Fire, beaten by The Right Stuff) and in 1998 (Mulan, beaten by Shakespeare in Love).

Wasn't Conti just as surprised he won. I get the impression he didn't have a good time working on that film.

I mentioned this earlier, but Goldsmith should have also won for Hoosiers, and if he didn't then Morricone should have for The Mission.

[Jay 37,336]

What, you mean Round Midnight wasn't a better score than both of those?

[Trumpeteer 302]

Has any one composer ever won the award for two scores, in the same year?

Marvin Hamlisch won Original Dramatic Score ("The Way We Were") and Score Adaptation ("The Sting") in the same year. He also was co-writer of the Original Song winner "The Way We Were."

I'll never understand why The Red Violin, a very mediocre effort, won in 1999 over e.g. Angela's Ashes and American Beauty.

I thought the same thing, since I had not seen "The Red Violin" before the Oscars. But I think John Corigliano composed a beautiful score that works wonderfully in the film, writing a theme for the violin that connects all the stories. And to compose a score using only string instruments is a very cool achievement. As for "Angela's Ashes," it's an OK score to a sappy movie. I thought "American Beauty" would win since it's attached to a Best Picture nominee (and eventual winner).

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

Has any one composer ever won the award for two scores, in the same year?

Marvin Hamlisch won Original Dramatic Score ("The Way We Were") and Score Adaptation ("The Sting") in the same year. He also was co-writer of the Original Song winner "The Way We Were."

3 Oscars on the same night?! That must be some kind of record. The only other person I know of to have done that is Jimmy C.

[Trumpeteer 302]

Has any one composer ever won the award for two scores, in the same year?

Marvin Hamlisch won Original Dramatic Score ("The Way We Were") and Score Adaptation ("The Sting") in the same year. He also was co-writer of the Original Song winner "The Way We Were."

3 Oscars on the same night?! That must be some kind of record. The only other person I know of to have done that is Jimmy C.

Walt Disney won four in a year, winning both documentary awards and both short subject awards in 1954.

Billy Wilder (The Apartment), Marvin Hamlisch (see above), Francis Ford Coppola (The Godfather Part II), James L. Brooks (Terms of Endearment), James Cameron (Titanic), Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh (Return of the King) and the Coen brothers (No Country for Old Men) have all won three Oscars in one year.

[The Dark Trilogy 39]

"The Right Stuff" fully deserved to win, in 1984. Whether it deserved to win over "Under Fire" is another matter.

Sorry, but this post I cannot allow to stand. Some people would say that The Right Stuff is temp-tracked. I would say this score is stolen by classical music consistently. This is one of the most stolen scores ever written (copied) in film music history (with The Bear by Philippe Sarde). Even Horner did not steal so cheeky, that is unbelievable! Notes were not altered much, so you can hear Holst Planets (Mars and Saturn), Tchaikovsky Violin concerto, Mussorsky's Pictures at an Exhibition (The great Gate of Kiev), Debussy's Claire D'Lune and others. And he is so cheeky enough to steal themes from Miklos Rozsa's Ben-Hur (In Masters of the Uneriverse, there is also a lot of Rozsa). None of this notes in the entire score are original, all stolen from other classical composers.

But Bill Conti said himself, that he did not like this work. I think because it is too much classical music. No originality. If you want to listen to that score, buy the real classical pieces as I listed above.

Really deserved to win... Sorry, if I read something like this my bile bubbles up. (No hassle to Richard, I really hate this score because of being unoriginal and this one gets an Oscar. I should change my vote of Oscar mistakes)

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

"The Right Stuff" fully deserved to win, in 1984. Whether it deserved to win over "Under Fire" is another matter.

Sorry, but this post I cannot allow to stand. Some people would say that The Right Stuff is temp-tracked. I would say this score is stolen by classical music consistently. This is one of the most stolen scores ever written (copied) in film music history (with The Bear by Philippe Sarde). Even Horner did not steal so cheeky, that is unbelievable! Notes were not altered much, so you can hear Holst Planets (Mars and Saturn), Tchaikovsky Violin concerto, Mussorsky's Pictures at an Exhibition (The great Gate of Kiev), Debussy's Claire D'Lune and others. And he is so cheeky enough to steal themes from Miklos Rozsa's Ben-Hur (In Masters of the Uneriverse, there is also a lot of Rozsa). None of this notes in the entire score are original, all stolen from other classical composers.

But Bill Conti said himself, that he did not like this work. I think because it is too much classical music. No originality. If you want to listen to that score, buy the real classical pieces as I listed above.

Really deserved to win... Sorry, if I read something like this my bile bubbles up. (No hassle to Richard, I really hate this score because of being unoriginal and this one gets an Oscar. I should change my vote of Oscar mistakes)

Oh. dear, I seem to have struck a bit of a nerve, haven't I? Please don't give yourself an ulcer, my friend, it's only a movie. In fairness to ckappes, I will go back and give it another listen. Perhaps the film would have fared better with the "rejected" score?

[Morlock 11]

Please don't give yourself an ulcer, my friend, it's only a movie.

"it's only a movie"?! Now you're giving me an ulcer.

Many annoying ones to choose from, but at the moment, 2002 annoys me the most. Five scores I like nominated, three of them truly exceptional (Williams, Bernstein and Newman), yet the winner is Elliot Goldenthal -a composer I love, but for Frida, pseudo-Mexicana crap that might just be his least interesting work (though it is certainly fun for 3 minutes at a time). The multiple indignities piss me off. In general, the outright travesties (Fame, 'Round Midnight, Babel) are a fact of life I can live with- it's the utter mediocrities winning when true masterpieces are present that really irritate me. 2002, 2004, 1996, 1983- one of my absolute favorite scores was nominated each of those years only to lose to an okay score that isn't even one of its composer's best works.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

one of my absolute favorite scores was nominated each of those years only to lose to an okay score that isn't even one of its composer's best works.

That is not the point, a composer is not nominated to compete against his own, previous better works, but between a bunch of other scores that happened to have have been written at around the same time.

[Red 75]

1980: Empire Strikes Back.

[bruckhorn 105]

"The Right Stuff" fully deserved to win, in 1984. Whether it deserved to win over "Under Fire" is another matter.

Sorry, but this post I cannot allow to stand. Some people would say that The Right Stuff is temp-tracked. I would say this score is stolen by classical music consistently. This is one of the most stolen scores ever written (copied) in film music history (with The Bear by Philippe Sarde). Even Horner did not steal so cheeky, that is unbelievable! Notes were not altered much, so you can hear Holst Planets (Mars and Saturn), Tchaikovsky Violin concerto, Mussorsky's Pictures at an Exhibition (The great Gate of Kiev), Debussy's Claire D'Lune and others. And he is so cheeky enough to steal themes from Miklos Rozsa's Ben-Hur (In Masters of the Uneriverse, there is also a lot of Rozsa). None of this notes in the entire score are original, all stolen from other classical composers.

But Bill Conti said himself, that he did not like this work. I think because it is too much classical music. No originality. If you want to listen to that score, buy the real classical pieces as I listed above.

Really deserved to win... Sorry, if I read something like this my bile bubbles up. (No hassle to Richard, I really hate this score because of being unoriginal and this one gets an Oscar. I should change my vote of Oscar mistakes)

Oh. dear, I seem to have struck a bit of a nerve, haven't I? Please don't give yourself an ulcer, my friend, it's only a movie. In fairness to ckappes, I will go back and give it another listen. Perhaps the film would have fared better with the "rejected" score?

Years ago I encountered an interview with Conti where he expressed what sounded like frustration towards Kaufman. It seemed the he fell in love with the temp score and wanted Conti to write a carbon copy of it. Conti said that some cues took several passes, each time getting a "make it sound more like Holst" from the director until Conti said that it was Holst and that they had to acquire the rights to it to avoid a lawsuit. He never mentioned the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto. Of course, that was in the public domain at the time... As for the Debussy, it was used as source music when the astronauts were watching the fan dance, so I give him a pass on that scene.

It was shocking to listen to the Empire Brass's CD that contained a 16th century fanfare that had more than a passing resemblance to the Fanfare from Rocky.

Knowing of Mr. Conti's usage of Tchaikovsky and Holst (and somehow winning an Oscar for Original Score-- tell me those voters aren't musically illiterate), it didn't keep me from listening to Kunzel's recording of Yeager's Triumph in October, 1988 when Discovery cleared the tower and America returned to space.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm surprised people voted for 1980. Star Wars got its Oscar, ESB didn't have to win.

2005, JW had little chance considering two scores were nominated.

2006 was far more unsettling, with that shat score winning over Pan's Labyrinth.

[Morlock 11]

one of my absolute favorite scores was nominated each of those years only to lose to an okay score that isn't even one of its composer's best works.

That is not the point, a composer is not nominated to compete against his own, previous better works, but between a bunch of other scores that happened to have have been written at around the same time.

That was not my point, but an additional annoyance. The emphasis was that an okay score beat a score I consider to be a masterpiece.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

2005, JW had little chance considering two scores were nominated.

1977. That's all I'm gonna say. 1977.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

This one's easy: Babel.

I consider it a catastrophic failure by the academy, and a classic example of a score being nominated because the composer is a favourite from past years and the film was acclaimed. That's before you even consider that the academy violated its own rules of using existing music. Something went really, really wrong that year.

This. It gets my vote because it shouldn't even have been nominated in the first place. After that, my vote would go again to Santaolalla, with Brokeback Mountain beating out Munich.

[Jeff 10]

I'm surprised people voted for 1980. Star Wars got its Oscar, ESB didn't have to win.

ESB is a completely different style and quality. It deserved to be recognized apart from its predecessor. They are both brilliant scores, but for different reasons.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

This one's easy: Babel.

I consider it a catastrophic failure by the academy, and a classic example of a score being nominated because the composer is a favourite from past years and the film was acclaimed. That's before you even consider that the academy violated its own rules of using existing music. Something went really, really wrong that year.

This. It gets my vote because it shouldn't even have been nominated in the first place. After that, my vote would go again to Santaolalla, with Brokeback Mountain beating out Munich.

I was looking on Wikipedia about the oscars, and took a look at Santaolalla's page. At the top it says this:

He is one of the most critically-acclaimed film composer of the 2000s, and has won two Academy Award for Best Original Score in two consecutive years

It's truly saddening that I didn't read that on some sort of humour site.

[publicist 4,643]

Why Chariots of Fire beat Raiders is beyond me.

Certainly because it introduced some new trends. To have Williams winning 5 years in row would have been as laughable as some of the real choices.

[Quintus 5,399]

Raiders not winning is as bad as E.T. losing out to Gandhi.

[publicist 4,643]

Raiders not winning is as bad as E.T. losing out to Gandhi.

Humbug. You can choose 2 scores between '77 and '82 he can possibly win for. Give it to RAIDERS, take it away from E. T. or STAR WARS. That's the deal.

Sincerely, your Academy

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

Raiders not winning is as bad as E.T. losing out to Gandhi.

Humbug. You can choose 2 scores between '77 and '82 he can possibly win for. Give it to RAIDERS, take it away from E. T. or STAR WARS. That's the deal.

Sincerely, your Academy

:lol...I think...

[John Crichton 4]

That is the way they think though.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Trying to name the 'best' always ends in tears. You can't compare scores that function in completely different areas, with different creative requirements.

[Jay 37,336]

Raiders not winning is as bad as E.T. losing out to Gandhi.

Humbug. You can choose 2 scores between '77 and '82 he can possibly win for. Give it to RAIDERS, take it away from E. T. or STAR WARS. That's the deal.

Sincerely, your Academy

Raiders was 81

I'm surprised people voted for 1980. Star Wars got its Oscar, ESB didn't have to win.

What a composer has previously done has NOTHING to do with it. Its an award for the best score written in that year. Period.

Have you heard the "score" to Fame? Its only 8 minutes total of transitional cues / ambient nothingness. The "score" was nominated and won the award because of the strength of the original SONGS throughout the movie. It was a joke, the voters were un-informed. The score award should be voted on by people who KNOW film scoring and follow this stuff.

That's why Fame winning over The Empire Strikes Back is the biggest blunder in Oscar history

[JoeinAR 1,949]

your wrong Jason, Midnight Express beating Superman is worse.

Greatest Music Oscar Crime in history.

Vivian Lee beating Betty Davis in 1939 for Gone with the Wind over Dark Victory is the greatest female acting crime. I'd have to think what was the worst Movie crime, and the worst male acting crime.

coures this is all opinion, I rather liked the Fame score. It wasn't worthy to win, but ESB isn't as good as most make it

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Have you heard the "score" to Fame? Its only 8 minutes total of transitional cues / ambient nothingness. The "score" was nominated and won the award because of the strength of the original SONGS throughout the music. It was a joke, the voters were un-informed. The score award should be voted on by people who KNOW film scoring and follow this stuff.

That's why Fame winning over The Empire Strikes Back is the biggest blunder in Oscar history

It is. Is that not how the Academy always worked? Why would actors be nominating sound editing and stuff like that? At least these days, composers and musicians nominate the original scores.

[Jay 37,336]

From what I remember reading, composers and musicians nominate, then EVERYONE in the academy can vote on them

Its only the really technical categories that only people in that field vote on, from what I remember reading

[Wojo 2,453]

I'd have to think what was the worst Movie crime

A friend of mine in college was pissed when Titanic beat L.A. Confidential.

[Quintus 5,399]

Titanic deserved it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Why composers vote 'crap' scores as nominees?

Maybe they want popular soundtracks to get noticed and awarded and so the soundtrack market can go on...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I'd have to think what was the worst Movie crime

A friend of mine in college was pissed when Titanic beat L.A. Confidential.

I agree with Quint, plus there are worse Oscar crimes. Annie Hall over Star Wars, Gandhi over ET

[Wojo 2,453]

I didn't say I was pissed. I stayed up all night that night to watch the Oscars, just so I could rat off for my classmates how many Titanic had won.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

I'd have to think what was the worst Movie crime

A friend of mine in college was pissed when Titanic beat L.A. Confidential.

I agree with Quint, plus there are worse Oscar crimes. Annie Hall over Star Wars, Gandhi over ET

"Annie Hall" UTTERLY deserved to win for best film!

"Gandhi", well, now, that's another matter. Taken as read, that, and "E.T." are two very different films, but with essentially the same message. If that is the case, then "Gandhi" makes its argument more eloquently, and intelligently.

"E.T.", on the other hand, struck gold at the box office, and "Gandhi" did not, which might have led the academy to the opinion that Spielberg had already received his "award" - money. A good compromise would have been: Best Film - "Gandhi", and Best Director - Spielberg.

[Quintus 5,399]

No, E.T. wipes the floor with Gandhi on every level.

Even Dickie Attenborough himself said E.T. was the better film of the two.

[mrbellamy 6,275]

From what I remember reading, composers and musicians nominate, then EVERYONE in the academy can vote on them

Its only the really technical categories that only people in that field vote on, from what I remember reading

No, it's like that for the technical categories too. Here's how it breaks down, according to the Academy....

NOMINATIONS: Members from each of the branches vote to determine the nominees in their respective categories – actors nominate actors, film editors nominated film editors, etc. However within the Animated Feature Film and Foreign Language Film categories, nominations are selected by vote of multi-branch screening committees. All voting members are eligible to select the Best Picture nominees.

FINAL BALLOTS: The Academy’s entire active membership is eligible to select Oscar winners in all categories, although in five – Animated Short Film, Live Action Short Film, Documentary Feature, Documentary Short Subject, and Foreign Language Film – members can vote only after attesting they have seen all of the nominated films in those categories.

http://www.oscars.org/awards/academyawards/about/voting.html

Which makes no sense to me. They should do the final ballots like they do the nominations, where people only vote in their respective categories, except Best Picture where everyone votes. How the hell is Jack Nicholson supposed to know what good sound mixing is?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'd have to think what was the worst Movie crime

A friend of mine in college was pissed when Titanic beat L.A. Confidential.

I was as well.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I don't get L.A. Confidential at all. I once skimmed through the isolated score, and except the final cue, found nothing exciting or remarkable. I think The Edge was the more interesting score that year.

Which makes no sense to me. They should do the final ballots like they do the nominations, where people only vote in their respective categories, except Best Picture where everyone votes. How the hell is Jack Nicholson supposed to know what good sound mixing is?

Just proves there's no sense in the oscars or the process.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Just because you're an actor doesn't mean you don't know how to do anything else. Robert Rodriguez directs, edits, scores, does the visual effects, etc. It makes sense to me to allow him to vote for original score even if he's primarily a director.

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't get L.A. Confidential at all. I once skimmed through the isolated score, and except the final cue, found nothing exciting or remarkable. I think The Edge was the more interesting score that year.

My comment was in regard to the movie itself, not the score.

They should do the final ballots like they do the nominations, where people only vote in their respective categories, except Best Picture where everyone votes. How the hell is Jack Nicholson supposed to know what good sound mixing is?

Well apparently Christian Bale knows what good stage lighting is.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

[Jay 37,336]

I don't get L.A. Confidential at all. I once skimmed through the isolated score, and except the final cue, found nothing exciting or remarkable. I think The Edge was the more interesting score that year.

He was talking about the film, not the score

[mrbellamy 6,275]

Just because you're an actor doesn't mean you don't know how to do anything else. Robert Rodriguez directs, edits, scores, does the visual effects, etc. It makes sense to me to allow him to vote for original score even if he's primarily a director.

True, and I think directors, in particular, would have expertise in many other areas. I just don't think it makes much sense to restrict the nomination process if they're not going to do the same for the winners, as well.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I don't get L.A. Confidential at all. I once skimmed through the isolated score, and except the final cue, found nothing exciting or remarkable. I think The Edge was the more interesting score that year.

I agree, well, I like LA, but I think The Edge was the best score that year. But I was talking about the film mainly.

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't get L.A. Confidential at all. I once skimmed through the isolated score, and except the final cue, found nothing exciting or remarkable. I think The Edge was the more interesting score that year.

My comment was in regard to the movie itself, not the score.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Yeah, yeah I get that. You can stop quoting it