What is the last video game you played?

[Quintus 5,399]

Which has been my major gripe with "modern" games - the, as far as I can tell, overall reduction to mostly the same concepts over and over again.

A self perpetuating myth, a falsehood. Play Portal, play Journey. Heck, play Brutal Legend.

[King Mark 3,631]

PS Pillars of Eternety wouldn't look so bad if you could move the camera angle, but it looks just like fixed, pre-rendered backgrounds

The point is, there are many people who like this sort of game and therefore helped fund this one, because it's about time something like this was made again. I don't think anybody would complain if you could get the same quality of game with a moveable camera, but I doubt the logistics of that could be pulled off (and if they could, then only by big, rich studios who don't make that sort of game). Because the whole point is to have an actual RPG, as in something that resembles a pen and paper RPG insofar as that you control a group of characters through a story, with focus on the characters' dynamics and interactions. That's something you can best manage from a top down view, and even if you could move the camera, you'd mostly stick to that view nevertheless. Any other view would make the controls more convoluted, so chances are they would suffer in the top down view as well if they tried to make the game work better in a kind of 3rd person view. Plus the design requirements would be exponential, hence the graphics would suffer.

The typical 3rd person view adventure type game, often with action elements added to the mix, is in my strong opinion about as anti-RPG as you can get. Those games may make great action adventures, and I'm not complaining that they are made and played, but what I demand is that we also get some actual RPGs.

That's where your wrong. Obviously I've played more videogame RPG's than you over the years, so I also know what I'm talking about. I also played the old ones like the Ultima, ADD Forgotten Realms games, Might and Magic, Eye of the Beholder, Neverwinter Nights, Bard's Tales, etc...

SOME current RPG's are "dumbed down" for the masses yes (Elder Scrolls Oblivion comes to mind) , but a lot STILL have complex systems that can take weeks to master and are very difficult. Take the turned based JRPG The Last Remnant for example. In some "Tales of" games you have to read guides just to understand the crafting system. A lot of games still have strong stories and deep character interactions too. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls have extremely complex leveling systems even if they rely on pure skill to beat the game.

There is also nothing wrong with action components in a videogame RPG's , NOBODY wants to ONLY play turn based games ALL THE TIME. Immersion is about believing you are in the video game's world while your playing, something that a top down perspective cannot provide anymore and only existed because of technological limitations

It's only your stubborn perception of the whole thing that sucks, that RPG= emulating a table top dice game only. The old games had their charm , but overall gaming evolution is that the games are overall a better experience now.

[Faleel 5,345]

....I thought Video Games were for having fun....

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm the resident JWFan RPG expert so I also know what I'm talking about.

Unquestionably, you know your RPG stuff.

[Wojo 2,453]

Clearly Km and Lee hope to wish the old and old fashioned games out of existence. Their gaming is cheapened by fuddy duddies stuck in the nineties, fapping on a 3DS, or merely pretending to even know what games are.

[King Mark 3,631]

If they make the Plllars of Eternity for consoles I'll play it.

That wasn't the point, it was Marian who claims that only an isometric view , turned based game can be called a true RPG. But then again Marian only like very static games (Myst,Monkey Island..)

And yes I do think portable and mobile gaming is a bad trend and it's hard to get excited by a 2D top down new Zelda game, but that's more of another matter.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

A self perpetuating myth, a falsehood. Play Portal, play Journey. Heck, play Brutal Legend.

At least two of these are independent games, and it's the independent developers that mainly keep the classic non-mainstream genres alive. Brutal Legend is by Double Fine, who right now are playing a major part in reviving the 2D point & click adventure. So I'd rather take that as a confirmation of what I was trying to say.

[Faleel 5,345]

Its as bad as wanting orchestral scores again!

[King Mark 3,631]

It's not at all the same thing!

To summarize my gaming position. I'm anti-mobile (especially ipad) gaming, anti- nostalgia gamers and anti Call of Duty. And I think PC gaming is a gigantic pain in the ass not worth the hassle and cost of setting up a system.

At least two of these are independent games, and it's the independent developers that mainly keep the classic non-mainstream genres alive.

There's lots of console RPG's that aren't mainstream at all. I have to reserve in advance most of the JRPG I play since the stores only get 2-3 copies

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

SOME current RPG's are "dumbed down" for the masses yes (Elder Scrolls Oblivion comes to mind) , but a lot STILL have complex systems that can take weeks to master and are very difficult. Take the turned based JRPG The Last Remnant for example. In some "Tales of" games you have to read guides just to understand the crafting system. A lot of games still have strong stories and deep character interactions too. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls have extremely complex leveling systems even if they rely on pure skill to beat the game.

But I'm not talking about complexity. And I'm not talking about making games only one way. Rather the opposite, I'm talking about *not* making all games the same (more or less) and especially about not forcefully mixing genres all the time. Action games with levelling sytems are fine - Diablo was fun back in the time (for a while), but labelling it an RPG was completely wrong in my opinion. But there are plenty of people who want to play an RPG without having to be skilled action gamers, or without having the stress of an action game, and those are mostly neglected these days, just because we now CAN do everything in one gaming system. But that doesn't mean we should do that for every game.

Ultima Underworld and Might and Magic (at least the later ones - I only played VI and VII, for a while) basically are were it all went off for me. Because they already threw the good battle systems out of the window and replaced them with lame action encounters. Or MM at least, I actually don't remember UU to well. Ultima Ascension scored major points in transporting you into its world, but it didn't have anything at all to do with role playing any more.

And no, you do not need photo realistic 3D graphics for immersion. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. There probably isn't any type of tabletop (to whatever extent) gaming that is as immersive as a simple pen & paper RPG, simply because it all plays out in your mind. Done right, it's probably more immersive than books and films. It's about getting you into the story, and into the interactions of your party members, and that depends very much on being able to control them as a group. So far every 3rd person system I've seen has taken most of that away, which means the world may be great to look at, but in the end it's just another action game (though perhaps a good one). I'd rather take the immersion of a decent 2D engine for my RPGaming, preferrably with a good score for setting the atmosphere.

And I don't want round based battle systems. Those were the main problem of the classic RPGs. CC & co introduced first rate real time tactic engines which can be perfectly applied to RPG mechanics.

And yes I do think portable and mobile gaming is a bad trend and it's hard to get excited by a 2D top down new Zelda game

I never liked Zelda. I haven't played many, but those I tried didn't work for me. They tried to be immersive with 3D graphics, which worked for a while, but the technicality of going from one "find the right order to press the right buttons" puzzle to the next pretty soon destroyed the illusion for me.

[King Mark 3,631]

Ultima Underworld is a videogame masterpiece (at the time it was released). It's a RPG in the purest of forms

But if it came out today exactly how it was it would totally suck. A game can only be judged in the context of the time it was released. I 'd probably rape my memories of it if I tried to play it again today.

[Quintus 5,399]

A self perpetuating myth, a falsehood. Play Portal, play Journey. Heck, play Brutal Legend.

At least two of these are independent games, and it's the independent developers that mainly keep the classic non-mainstream genres alive. Brutal Legend is by Double Fine, who right now are playing a major part in reviving the 2D point & click adventure. So I'd rather take that as a confirmation of what I was trying to say.

How so? How does being indie or published under the umbrella of a large corp have any bearing on originality? Specifically high quality originality. I know plenty of garbage indie games as much as I do mainstream ones. You're generalising.

[Faleel 5,345]

I never liked Zelda. I haven't played many, but those I tried didn't work for me. They tried to be immersive with 3D graphics, which worked for a while, but the technicality of going from one "find the right order to press the right buttons" puzzle to the next pretty soon destroyed the illusion for me.

They are not all 3D.

[King Mark 3,631]

Discussing video games with Marian is a bit like discussing complete score presentations with Thor.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

How so? How does being indie or published under the umbrella of a large corp have any bearing on originality? Specifically high quality originality. I know plenty of garbage indie games as much as I do mainstream ones. You're generalising.

Of course I'm generalising. Because my complaint is that mainstream gaming has become focused on too few overused patterns since hardware has become strong enough to do everything in 1st/3rd person 3D. Under the assumption that my complaint is valid, it's only logical that it's the smaller independent developers who are doing the non-mainstream stuff, which includes all the good things missing from mainstream games in general (and obviously lots of crap as well, as in every art form).

I never liked Zelda. I haven't played many, but those I tried didn't work for me. They tried to be immersive with 3D graphics, which worked for a while, but the technicality of going from one "find the right order to press the right buttons" puzzle to the next pretty soon destroyed the illusion for me.

They are not all 3D.

True of course. I missed the 2D versions at the time they came out, and the 3D versions I played didn't motivate me to give the 2D ones a try. (Although if I liked them, it'd only further emphasise my point about trying to squeeze everything into 3D just for the sake of it)

[Wojo 2,453]

One needs only to look at sites like GOG, PCGamer, Kickstarter, and Steam Workshop to realize that independent nostalgia gaming is back and stronger than ever, and won't go away anytime soon. Thousands and thousands of gamers, disillusioned with mainstream twitchy games, are embracing their roots. Will new games disappear under the weight of this grass roots movement? You must think so.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Discussing video games with Marian is a bit like discussing complete score presentations with Thor.

Hm, interesting point, but I don't think it quite applies. Thor is against chronological complete releases in general, I'm just complaining about entire great game genres dying out simply because the form in which they work best isn't a good vehicle for high end 3D graphics.

Basically, what I lament is probably the same thing many others (me included) say, generalising again, about the typical modern Hollywood blockbuster: Over reliance on visual effects, neglect of story vs action set pieces because of an apparently reduced attention span of modern audiences. That again doesn't mean that all these films are wrong, but what's right for some isn't necessarily right for all.

Will new games disappear under the weight of this grass roots movement? You must think so.

The point is of course that all these people embracing the old games like playing the old games, but don't want to be forced to stick to old games. Because we all like shiny new games, and if some of these classic concepts can be brought back with modern technology, they should be. The important thing is applying the technology in ways that fit the concepts. We don't play these old games because we like "bad" graphics and dislike modern CGI, we play them despite their flaws because most modern games lack not just those flaws but also many of the other things that made these classics great.

(Though in the cases of many of the real big classics, the graphics and controls are perfectly fine. I wouldn't change the controls or style of a game like The Curse of Monkey Island or X-Wing Alliance. Update, yes (to modern resolutions etc.), but that's a purely technical thing.

[King Mark 3,631]

I see videogames a bit in an opposite way to movies

In any period, when I play a game, I wonder what the same game might look 10 years in the future.So it's always been about evolution for me

To me technology has not yet evolved to the point where they can provide me with a perfect RPG. The current limitation in open world games now is the re-use of the same areas in various parts of the games. After a while playing Skyrim you feel like your always exploring the same cave with a slightly different lay out...that's what I hope is better in next gen. Dark Souls is the only game where every nook and cranny you explore is different and has a purpose, but has other limitations

So probably the ultimate game would be a game with environments like Dark Souls but a true open world like Skyrim, and add to that a complex battle and character level system (not dumbed down to a few RPG elements).

In that Witcher 3 looks the most promising (even if I didn't care for Witcher 2)

[Wojo 2,453]

Skyrim's open world was very flawed. Murder this whole town and the next town doesn't know about it. But steal an apple and everyone wants your skin. It was too open in that actions had very limited consequences, which shatters the believability of the game world. I realize the other way to resolve that is by scripting everything, which isn't open world either. Emergent game play in single player open world games is still in its infancy. If you define immersion as looking through your character's eyes, then it's immersive. But I never really felt like I was really a Dragonborn when I came across so many people who didn't give two shits about my powers.

[Trent B 337]

A look of how awesome Star Wars 1313 could have been. Damn Disney for canning this game!

http://www.nerdist.com/2013/12/what-could-have-been-star-wars-1313/

[Jay 37,346]

Wow, I hadn't see that before, that game did look cool! Damn!

[Wojo 2,453]

Just Cause 2 is three bucks for another two hours in the wake of the insane looking multi-player patch just released.

[Quintus 5,399]

I have it but am waiting for the actual multiplayer modes to materialise because at the moment it's just a buggy chaotic novelty.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Just Cause 2? Didn't that come out like 5 years ago?

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah, but on the PC that means nothing. The mod community embedded themselves into it and wrought a multiplayer component out of it which sees 600 players all blowing each other up at once. Plus the game is still beautiful on that platform. Probably still the most breathtaking sandbox world ever created - at least until GTA V materialises.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The game is hilariously awesome but I never knew people still played it. Cool.

[Wojo 2,453]

JC2 came out in March 2010. I guess it came out like five years ago, but only because you said "like."

I never got it because it's Vista only or higher, and it's not until recently that my new card has made my computer better suited for gaming in 7. The mod looks amazing.

There are two things to realize about PC gaming. The first is that games have zero resale value. You cannot transfer or return a code on Steam, and cracks make your original disc, if the game predates Steam, worthless to all but the most ardent collectors.

The second is that the most dedicated users can keep their games working long after the rest of the industry moves on. Got old DOS or Windows 3 or 95 games you like, even though they don't sell them anymore? There's a community that still plays it and will help you get it to work. You cannot sell the game easily, but you don't need to shit can it just because the next game came out.

User and fan made content is the biggest advantage that the PC has as a gaming platform over the consoles. The biggest reasons for not playing old games -- it doesn't work anymore, it's too buggy, the controls are wonky, the graphics are too old -- can largely be fixed by a dedicated fan base that gives the PC game immortality. PC gamers still play Doom, still sold on Steam. They still play System Shock 2. They certainly breathed new interest in Just Cause 2 because of the mod. 7,555 online right now.

PC gaming is challenging and expensive, but rewarding if you know what you're doing and are willing to invest the time and money. But the idea that old games are bad because nobody plays them or the graphics are bad are self fulfilled prophecies created by the console manufacturers to keep the learning curve simpler for the casual game managers.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

JC2 came out in March 2010. I guess it came out like five years ago, but only because you said "like."

It was an estimate, feels like forever since I first played the demo, and nearly 4 years is pretty close to that estimate.

[Wojo 2,453]

Fair enough

[King Mark 3,631]

PC gaming is challenging and expensive, but rewarding if you know what you're doing and are willing to invest the time and money.

But you don't give the impression that you know what your doing. All I read as about your games crashing, conflicting drivers or your save games wiped out of existance

Quint seems to have a handle on his PC so it's giving me hope the genre is getting more stable

[Quintus 5,399]

KM, almost every new release has full Xbox controller support now. When I play Bioshock Infinite for example it just loads up and presents me with A, X, Y and B coloured buttons. That, and Steam is God in computerised form.

PC gaming still has its quirks (sometimes AKA benefits) but yes, it's a Far Cry from the awkward, wall punching hassles of 5-10 years back.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'll be honest, I don't read upgrade guides. I don't know what the best hardware combinations are, or what will stop working in a few years' time. I'm making small upgrades here and there as I go, as I want. I'm basically locked into my motherboard because it's first generation i7, and upgrading to the best processor in that socket won't bring me up to date. My RAM has been upgraded, and while it's not maxed out, memory isn't the bottleneck.

I did upgrade my video card recently specifically to play New Vegas in Windows 7 without having to reboot into XP, where it worked fine. I had a friend with a similar motherboard by the same vendor, and the game wouldn't work for him either. But he could play Skyrim so he was happy. Game works great for me now, and I'm ready to start adding mods, or at least to unleash Gojira on the Legion. Or maybe it's because I reinstalled Windows 7 and haven't reinstalled Malwarebytes. Who knows, compatibility is a crap shoot.

Did I lose a one terabyte hard drive because I swapped the cables? Yes. I never knew you couldn't do that. I chalk that up to a learning experience; most of what I lost is replaceable, I shouldn't have had, or time will help me forget. Recovering the data will be a fun hobby.

You know how when you connect a new Microsoft mouse, keyboard, or game pad, and the computer wants you to reboot? Well if you don't, you're taking a risk, which is why the mouse installation crashed my first game last month. Again, that was an acceptable incident because it's been fine since.

I don't know if Quint built his computer or if he's active with upgrading. Maybe he's happy with the way it is, which leads to stability. Or maybe he really is better at selecting hardware than me. I will assume he doesn't use his gaming computer for other purposes like music, work, or pictures. They say don't shit where you eat, the same is true of computers. I would like to build a newer computer but it's not really important at the moment.

If I posted every day that I was able to successfully play a game, that wouldn't be fun to write about. The disasters are entertaining.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'll be honest, I don't read upgrade guides. I don't know what the best hardware combinations are, or what will stop working in a few years' time. I'm making small upgrades here and there as I go, as I want.

That's what I was doing when I was still using a PC for gaming, and it was incredibly expensive over time and always felt like I never reached my goal of games playing properly. If you want to go for PC gaming, I think you have to have max budget from the getgo and get the top graphics card or most games won't run as they should

Now don't get me started about PC gaming in the late 80's and early 90's (pre-Windows era), that was the ultimate headache to get a game to run. Most of the time you weren't sure if the tweaks you had to do in DOS commands would brick your PC forever. You also had to edit core files of the computer and the Internet didn't even exist to help you

God I used to do all this, and now I just shudder at the thought of opening my PC to change a component

As for my next game I'm going to play Atelier Ayesha, which has been sitting on my shelf for a while. The previous Atelier series (the Arland trilogy, especially Atelier Rorona) was surprisingly good and a lot of fun. It's almost impossible to be in a bad mood after playing these games, perfect for x-mas.

[Wojo 2,453]

I figured out the optimal autoexec.bat and command.com parameters for getting games to work it DOS a few years ago when I was trying to game in Virtual PC. I think I actually saved those files. Too many external hard drives to keep track of. Now any old game I want to play, GOG figured it out for me. Except for Solar Winds and A Final Unity, of course.

[King Mark 3,631]

Atelier Ayesha was a really awesome JRPG in all respects (characters, story, battles, graphics) except for the set time limit of the game .You have to meticulously plan all your actions and travels to be able to complete everything and it adds a bit of a stressful element to the game, and you have to backtrack and re-start entire sections of the game if you wasted too much time on something. This one had turn based battles but still quite difficult

Final Fantasy 13 Lightning Returns will have a time limit too

[Quintus 5,399]

The only time limiting game I played (some of) was the original Dead Rising. It spoiled it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Time limits in games are the bane of my existence.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah , I hate it too basically. But in the Atelier series every one has a time limit. I had a save file "3 months" before the game ended and had to go from there to try out different endings and sidequests.

At mid point in the game I considered starting over and clearing the main quest as fast as possible to be able to do all the other stuff. It basically forces you to use a guide to be able to be as efficient as possible.

They want you to do New Game+ several times

This battle exemplifies what I love about optional JRPG Boss fights. The ones where you get crushed at the first attempts and really need to think about your strategy. I was about to give up on this one, but I took several hours to craft new equipment,potions and bombs and finally beat it. One of my favorite things in JRPG's is over the top animations for "super moves" (like the one that kills him at the end)

You think it's an easy win until he gets his "adult form" after 3 turns.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Another thing I hate are limited saves. On the hardest difficulty, I believe you're only allowed 3 save points in the Dead Space franchise. I'll never forget Resident Evil: Survivor, which had no save points. You had to beat the game in one sitting, and if you died you when straight back to the start menu. I think i got 4 hours in one time and died. The Hulk has never been so angry.

[King Mark 3,631]

Dark Souls has the most unforgiving save system of all games. Only one Auto save file and it saves your progress every 3 steps. Buy an weapon you don't like and you own it forever, accidentally killl an essential NPC and he's gone forever

I'm deciding now whether to play a few short games or start Borderlands 2..but I know that's a month long affair

[Bilbo 3,709]

Finally got to play the latest Tomb Raider game. Really enjoyed it, great storyline and gameplay. Score was good too. I don't get to play a lot of games these days but this one felt more mature. Seemed like a game crafted around a story rather than the other way around.

9/10.

Lost a point because I would have loved if it had been a bit longer although I guess I do get to explore the island freely now and collect everything I missed first time. Looking forward to the story continuing in the comics.

[Quintus 5,399]

You can save plenty of times in Dead Space. Brilliant games. 3 saves is probably just some +1 hardcore difficulty setting.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Finally got to play the latest Tomb Raider game. Really enjoyed it, great storyline and gameplay. Score was good too. I don't get to play a lot of games these days but this one felt more mature. Seemed like a game crafted around a story rather than the other way around.

9/10.

Lost a point because I would have loved if it had been a bit longer although I guess I do get to explore the island freely now and collect everything I missed first time. Looking forward to the story continuing in the comics.

It was just a carbon copy of Uncharted, which is ironic since Uncharted was greatly inspired by the classic Tomb Raider aesthetic.

I enjoyed it but didn't find it to be anything special. Square Enix is trying to squeeze some more sales by porting it over to PS4 and Xbox One next month. I remember they said it didn't come close to their sales expectations despite selling millions of copies.

You can save plenty of times in Dead Rising. Brilliant games. 3 saves is probably just some +1 hardcore difficulty setting.

You mean Dead Space? Yeah, there are plenty of save points throughout the games, but if you want to play on the hardest difficulty you better not have to leave the house for a few days. Although I will say I'm still not a fan of the preset manual save points. I much prefer autosaves whenever you reach a certain point in the gameplay.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Finally got to play the latest Tomb Raider game. Really enjoyed it, great storyline and gameplay. Score was good too. I don't get to play a lot of games these days but this one felt more mature. Seemed like a game crafted around a story rather than the other way around.

9/10.

Lost a point because I would have loved if it had been a bit longer although I guess I do get to explore the island freely now and collect everything I missed first time. Looking forward to the story continuing in the comics.

It was just a carbon copy of Uncharted, which is ironic since Uncharted was greatly inspired by the classic Tomb Raider aesthetic.

I enjoyed it but didn't find it to be anything special. Square Enix is trying to squeeze some more sales by porting it over to PS4 and Xbox One next month. I remember they said it didn't come close to their sales expectations despite selling millions of copies.

I've never played Uncharted so I didn't have that as a point of comparison but I really enjoyed this. I thought it was a fresh take on Tomb Raider. I think it's the 7th Tomb Raider game I've played and I've enjoyed them all. I'm not a massive gamer so my expectations are probably lower than most. I think Skyrim and LEGO Lord of the Rings were the last two games that I bought before this!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

What system are you on? If you loved this you would adore the Uncharted games.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah Dead Space, sorry.

Dead Space has save stations, like Resident Evil's Safe Room typewriters. They pretty much serve the same purpose as checkpoint saves, there's still the tension involved with reaching them without dying. I agree that pc style quick saves are cheap.

[Wojo 2,453]

Not all PC games have quick saves wherever and whenever you want. Far Cry 1 had checkpoints that saved your game, but finding them could take all evening.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yeah Dead Space, sorry.

Dead Space has save stations, like Resident Evil's Safe Room typewriters. They pretty much serve the same purpose as checkpoint saves, there's still the tension involved with reaching them without dying. I agree that pc style quick saves are cheap.

I suppose. I just find it redundant that I have to go in and manually save rather than the game automatically doing it when I reach that point.

[Quintus 5,399]

Ah, then the calming affect of Safe Rooms is lost on you then, which is a shame. Sometimes you just can't beat the relief of reaching one and hearing the soothing "you're going to be okay now" piano melody quietly tinkering away in the background as you gather yourself together and regroup, heal and consider your next move.

I rather appreciate the psychology behind that particular progress securing game design. It's anything but redundant.

Note how they are the only ever utilised in survival horror games...

[King Mark 3,631]

Dragon's Dogma also had only one Autosave.

And there was a bug where some people got their save corrupted and lost their entire gameplay