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Stefan it doesn't happen until literally the final minute of the episode, and even then the end credits start rolling before anything really happens.

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Speaking in defense of the scene, I'm wary of the fact that this puts me in company dominated by the sort of people who want to begin the discussion by demanding a precise definition of "rape", or by complaining about how nobody cares about the men, or by denouncing the whole issue as propoganda by the feminazis. Still, having heard and read dozens of criticisms of it over the last week, I haven't found a single convincing argument as to why this scene in particular is an unacceptable moral transgression. My impression is that many people are combining a (perfectly natural and legitimate) personal revulsion towards what they've seen with some (half-baked and presumptuous) complaints about the artistic poverty of the writing (in particular, the character "arcs"), and erroneously passing these considerations off as arguments towards the otherwise baseless contention that it was morally wrong to include the scene.

This is the best retort to the complaints that I've read.

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Man, does this show take its sweet time. But finally things are picking up!

I'm so glad the confrontation between Tyrion and Daenerys actually happened. I was very prepared to roll my eyes at what I thought would be another case of them being in the same vicinity, but just missing each other. They still haven't met in the books yet, so I'm glad the showrunners are expediting that storyline.

But the real highlight of the episode was Jonathan Pryce. Really brought that character to life.

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The scene with Bronn made the whole poison thing since last episode feel like pointless tension. That was useless.

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The final three episodes should be packed with big events. Evidently a lot of people find it boring, but I like the slow build-ups over the course of each season. If this season has been slower than most others, I think that is explicable by the fact that it appears to be the beginning of the second of the two acts of the overall story (where I would class Seasons 2 - 4 as Act I, with Season 1 being the Prologue). With the exception of Daenerys's story (whose continuation from Season 4 has been fairly smooth), all of the major storylines have undergone a significant shift in circumstances this season, requiring greater effort by way of establishing the scenarios and proximate threats and motivations (similar to the way in which Season 2 had to deal with a multitude of different storylines scattered across the country on different courses as a result of the culminating events of Season 1). It's conjecture at the moment, of course, but it seems plausible that Seasons 5 - 7 would display a pattern of successive raising of the stakes and an increase in activity comparable to that of Seasons 2 - 4, but hopefully very much intensified.

I don't know what's going on with Shireen. There seems to be a general assumption among the online commentariat that Selyse will conspire with Melisandre to have the girl incinerated (or, at least, attempt to). I think this is a misreading of the situation. Despite being rather an unpleasant mother, Selyse's scenes this season indicate an anxiety over Shireen's safety, and, if it comes to it, she'll side with her daughter rather than the supposed Lord of Light. The more worrying question is what Stannis will do. His bonding scene with Shireen a few episodes ago is starting to seem suspiciously like a set up for a future betrayal. I'm flummoxed trying to work out how this is going to unfold. If Stannis does capitulate to Melisandre's demand, though, I'm going to threaten to join all those other people boycotting the show - probably in all-caps.

The Dornish swill is rather perplexing. It's not just that this thread of the story has been executed poorly at the production stage, or even at the writing stage; I find it impossible to see how any of this looked like a good idea even at the stage of outlining the season. The two silly (and sillily simultaneous) schemes to abduct Myrcella, and the ensuing altercation and arrests, leave the feeling that the writers decided just to press the fast-forward button to get the characters where they now are with as little effort as possible. I still believe that something more substantial will unfold in Dorne before the season's conclusion, particularly when Doran gets some genuine screen time, but there's too little time left for it to amount to very much. My best guess as to the role of the Dorne plot is that it is primarily a set-up for a more significant Dornish involvement in the larger story in Season 6. (This would be in-keeping with the show's treatment of other threads in the past. Four of the five story threads to get the least attention in Season 4 were those of Stannis and Melisandre, Sansa and Littlefinger, Reek and the Boltons, and Brienne and Pod. With the exception of Stannis's surprise intervention at Castle Black, these threads were largely detached from the major plotlines of the season, branching out in their separate directions but with very little time for development. I remember quite a few responses at the time complaining that the show had lost its way by continuing to follow too many characters wandering around on unrelated and apparently aimless subplots. In Season 5, though, all four of those threads are converging to form one of the most prominent blocks of the story; their inclusion last year seems to have been mainly about manoeuvering the characters into place. I'd like to think that the current Dorne stuff will have a similar appearance in retrospect, rather than being just a waste of time!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsioCjw6130

The season finally starting with three episodes left?

This is ridiculous.

But untrue!

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More and more deviations from the original storylines creep into the show, which is not a bad thing as it effectively excises some meanderings from the story but also deprive us of some nice story threads and moments. I am so glad the actor who plays Maester Aemon, Peter Vaughan, was able to finish off his role with dignity as he is 92!!! What a great actor, pitch perfect for the role.

As you said BB the story of this seasons seems to get finally rolling here although we have had some important twists and turns along the way. Still there are some scenes that feel somewhat needless or need to have a good pay-off in the near future, like the Bronn prison scene and the endless "Sansa gets abused" scenes at Winterfell and Boltons doing nothing.

Jonathan Pryce and Diana Rigg both were wonderful in this episode. Fantastic to see these two greats sparring.

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Just watched it. I disagree with those who say each week "nothing happened this week" or "things are finally happening this week!". I think every episode of the show is completely enjoyable, I enjoy all the situations all the characters get in too.

Good point Gloin that those 4 somewhat short and relatively meandering storylines from Season 4 are all converging in Winterfell this season, and it makes sense that any other storyline that is similar this season might not pay off until the next.


Obviously the poison thing is a setup that will pay off later, too.

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I didn't understand why so many people were so upset last week. There have been quite a deal of awful things in the series, and this last scene, though very tense, was the shortest torture scene performed by the little pervert shown on screen; they might have dwelt on it a bit more, but they did not; it was all in the build-up.

As for the Sand Snakes, I was not aware they had been touted as an exceptional threat, so I was not disappointed with the fight that much-- just we didn't see jaime for a while.

Fortunately, it's the really cute one of the girls (it might be the make-up and their grim faces, but I find them rather ugly) that's turning out to be important; that's quite a scene she had this time.

Seeing Bronn die was awful, but fortunately she saved him. He's such a great character (thanks greatly to the actor).

I'm really lost as regards that recently converted Sparrow guy that has borne witness against Circei; there has been nothing in the recap to remind us of the facts. I read a few thing sin the commetns on imdb;it seems that he served Robert, Circei slept with him and had him serve the probably drugged wine that led to Robert's accidental death.

The sacrifice demanded of Stanis is horrible, and I'm afraid he's really going to make it.

:(

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I'm really lost as regards that recently converted Sparrow guy that has borne witness against Circei; there has been nothing in the recap to remind us of the facts. I read a few thing sin the commetns on imdb;it seems that he served Robert, Circei slept with him and had him serve the probably drugged wine that led to Robert's accidental death.

That's Cercei's cousin Lancel, and they did in fact cover all those events you mentioned in the "Previously On" that aired before the season premiere.

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And he (Lancel) brought up those past incidents in the conversation that he had with Cersei in private, at Tywin's funeral, in that first episode. I guess they thought it would have been a bit too blatant to include those references in the recap for Episode 7...

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Some casting news for Season 6 broke today. Character names aren't specified, but some of them can be identified with quite a bit of certainty from the given descriptions. The two most significant ones (I'll hide them for anyone who wants to remain completely oblivious) are:

  • Euron Greyjoy (an uncle of Theon), whose exclusion from Season 5 has been a sore point with many readers;
  • Randyll Tarly (father of Samwell), other members of whose family also appear to be on the casting list.

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-casting-has-begun-and-heres-the-list/

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Thanks for the reminder, Jay and Glóin; I really did not remember at all, even though I watched the episodes this refers to last year only (for the first time); I'm sure many people haven't seen them since the first broadcast and couldn't remember that.

By the way, I'd like for them to tell us more about the two Stark boys, out there with those people living under the trees, whom the visions led them to; it's been a long while.

Do you think we may have a bit of their story in the last episode?

They had better have continued shooting scènes with them, since the actors keep growing, and they can't pretend it's been longer we haven't seen them than we've spent following the other characters.

Time really is a problem in this series. We have to piece together bits of information or clues to figure out how long has passed, especially switching from one storyline to another, with long distances and also probably a good deal of poetic licence.

And most obviously, "Winter is coming" but it's taking its own sweet time; it's snowing near Winterfell, now, but still, it seemed like such an urgent matter in the very first episodes, that it's either baffling or ridiculous.

How long has it been since the start of the series anyway? How many years in King's Landing, in Daenerys' story, ...?

The perception of time is surely fuzzied by all the backs and forths between storylines, plances (thus also climates), plus the long wait between seasons; they should give us clearer indications or reminders; I may have missed or forgotten some, but it should be clearer nonetheless.

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I also have no freaking clue how much time has passed in the world of the show. It's been 5 years for us, but have the characters all aged 5 years? I think its all purposely ambiguous, but I'm not sure.

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Rickon won't show up in this season, certainly. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't seen next year either, though we'll be well beyond the published book territory by then.

The official line is that Bran won't appear at all this season. That might be true. He definitely will be back in the future, as he's one of the central characters in the story (despite having got rather little screen time so far). I recall reading that George R. R. Martin had said that he found Bran's material the toughest to write because it was so difficult to do so without giving the game away. I don't remember much about The Empire Strikes Back, but Benioff and Weiss have compared Bran's current situation with his mentor in the far north to Luke Skywalker being trained as a Jedi with Yoda (?) mostly off-screen.

How long has it been since the start of the series anyway? How many years in King's Landing, in Daenerys' story, ...?

In the books' version of events, people have worked out that a little more than two years (less than two and a half) would have passed between the opening and the end of A Dance with Dragons (which corresponds roughly to where the show is now). I think we would probably have to allow a bit more flexibility in the show to account for the great distances people seem to travel in the space of a few episodes. In the last episode, Myrcella said that she'd been in Dorne for years - maybe we can put that down to teenaged hyperbole!

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It's certainly possible that 5 years have passed on the show just like 5 years have in real life. I mean, all the actors have aged 5 years.

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Yeah, the actors' ages is another reason to suppose a somewhat expanded time frame. Five years might be pushing it a bit, being more than twice as much time as seems to have passed in the books, but somewhere in the three-to-four year range seems feasible, especially if we postulate that Gilly's baby has a genetic condition which causes a very slow rate of development.

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Hmm, yea I forgot about the baby. That actually should help figure everything out

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Isn't it the case that Gilly was pregnant when the Night's Watch passed through Craster's Keep in Season 2? Being generous, we could allow eight months between then and the birth of Sam Jr. I think it would also be overly generous to suggest that the baby, as seen in recent episodes, was as much as ten months old. These considerations would put a pretty solid upper bound of a year and a half on the amount of time having passed between the first visit to Craster's and the present - with a year being a more probable approximation. This would bring us back to the 2 - 2.5 year estimate for the total duration based on the books...

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Someone Has Done A Statistical Analysis Of Rape In Game Of Thrones

http://io9.com/someone-has-done-a-statistical-analysis-of-rape-in-game-1707037159


47 episodes in total, 50 acts of rape. Makes you wonder what we are watching for our entertainment sometimes.

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Someone Has Done A Statistical Analysis Of Rape In Game Of Thrones

http://io9.com/someone-has-done-a-statistical-analysis-of-rape-in-game-1707037159

47 episodes in total, 50 acts of rape. Makes you wonder what we are watching for our entertainment sometimes.

Indeed.

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I actually stopped watching for the time being. Since I realized i was only following it so I wouldn't have to worry about spoilers.

I'm not really in the mood for this kind of show right now.

I actually find myself skipping the sexposition and more gratuitous violence a lot to get to the character moments, which is not a good sign of the immersion levels of the show. I am not and never have been titillated by the nudity or the graphic violence of the show.

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Yeah, this season more than others I've had to resist the urge to start tooling around on my phone while watching. I've been enjoying the Cersei/Margaery stuff, which has taken up unfortunately little time at this point.

My problem isn't that it's "slow," because the other seasons have all had a slow build. It's that most of the stories seem to be in a holding pattern - both plotwise and character-wise. Arya has spent all season basically mopping the floor and asking questions about where she is. Sansa has spent most of the season under siege in Winterfell. Jon Snow/Stannis have spent all season talking about will they/won't they re: Winterfell. Jaimie and Tyrion have both basically spent 8 episodes just to get from point A to point B. Dani hasn't had any major plot advances in almost two seasons now, and character/plot developments just keep happening to the people around her instead.

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*shrug* I just don't get bored / disinterested the way you guys are all starting to seem to. Show is completely entertaining to me every week.

I have enjoyed all aspects of Tyrion's adventures this season.

Dany has been boring for a while, but since you can't have her actually attacking King's Landing and/or the White Walkers until the final season, I dunno what else they can write for her to do until then.

The Sansa storyline seems to be building to her finally taking a stand for herself.

I do wish Arya's storyline was more developed.


And there's been 7 episodes aired, not 8 :)

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I am not disinterested or bored, more tired of the sexposition taking time from the actual drama.

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I've never really felt that way about the sex in the show - ok, maybe a bit in the first season when they had to built viewership. Since then sex has only been shown for a reason, IMO, and it has not been gratuitous in my book. It's a realistic portrayal of the world they've built.

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I've never really felt that way about the sex in the show - ok, maybe a bit in the first season when they had to built viewership. Since then sex has only been shown for a reason, IMO, and it has not been gratuitous in my book. It's a realistic portrayal of the world they've built.

Realistic portrayl but with a certain connotations. ;)

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I've never really felt that way about the sex in the show - ok, maybe a bit in the first season when they had to built viewership. Since then sex has only been shown for a reason, IMO, and it has not been gratuitous in my book. It's a realistic portrayal of the world they've built.

I think that speaks more to the creators and the world they've built, and not to the actual necessity for sexual violence, nudity, and gratuitousness in the series.

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The above link does go into some detail, as far as the majority of rapes in the books and the show are told from the rapist's perspective. In the Sansa situation, the affront is viewed moreso through Theon's eyes than Sansa's own. After saving Gilly mid-sexual-assault in the very next episode, Sam is rewarded sexually for his white knight behavior. And the scene with Jamie/Cersei last season - Jamie having become a very sympathetic character - where many viewers still don't consider that a sexual assault scene because she stopped fighting after she repeatedly declined consent.

It's societal/systemic to be sure, and not just GoT, but it's pretty dang gross IMO.

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I've been enjoying the Cersei/Margaery stuff, which has taken up unfortunately little time at this point.

The King's Landing material has had more time than any other thread this season (though not by as large a margin as we're used to from previous years). I guess that's not much consolation if you're bored by the stories up north and out east (which I personally am not).

Someone Has Done A Statistical Analysis Of Rape In Game Of Thrones

http://io9.com/someone-has-done-a-statistical-analysis-of-rape-in-game-1707037159

47 episodes in total, 50 acts of rape. Makes you wonder what we are watching for our entertainment sometimes.

Indeed.

Virtually all fictional entertainment involves placing characters in positions of danger, pain, misery to varying degrees of severity. Of course, readers/viewers will all have different levels of tolerance in relation to the severity, and the balance between pain and pleasure depicted. But I think it's a very serious matter when people (as many have been doing in relation to Game of Thrones especially over the last couple of weeks) go beyond expressing their own distaste for certain types of fictitious scenario and begin to cast moral judgments on the creation of these fictions, or on the character of either the creators or the willing audience.

I had a fair idea what type of thing was in store in the first episode when the apparent protagonist and hero, in his second scene, beheaded a defenseless, frightened man.

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