Jump to content

GAME OF THRONES


SF1_freeze

Recommended Posts

Just now, Stefancos said:

So when will Dany land? Will she sail straight to Westeros, or pass by Dorne first?

It would be futile to land in Dorne considering they would have to trek through the deserts to reach the Highgarden lands. Plenty of coastline in the lands surrounding the King's Landing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

So when will Dany land? Will she sail straight to Westeros, or pass by Dorne first?

 

Dorne IS Westeros, just the southern tip of it.

 

She'll either land at Dragonstone or Dorne, I suppose.  I suppose Dorne would make more sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jay said:

 

Dorne IS Westeros, just the southern tip of it.

 

She'll either land at Dragonstone or Dorne, I suppose.  I suppose Dorne would make more sense.

Why the heck would she land in the south when she could invade beyond Dorne's deserts and mountains straightaway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

To meet with those now allied to her. The Sands and Oleanna

Oooh aaaah the Dornishmen are so vital to her success. Bah I say to that!

Why not sail straight around Dorne and land near Highgarden then. Supplies, allies and easier landing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, crocodile said:

How many characters were killed in this episode?

 

Karol

 

Well, 12 named characters

 

Grand Maester Pycelle
Brother Lancel
The High Sparrow
Ser Loras Tyrell
Queen Margaery Tyrell
Lord Mace Tyrell
Ser Kevan Lannister
King Tommen Baratheon
Black Walder Frey
Lothar Frey
Lord Walder Frey

 

and Lyanna Stark in flashback

 

Plus, while technically not dead yet, Septa Unella basically is too (Gregor having his way with her)... I doubt we'll see her again.

 

Plus loads of randoms that were in the Sept of Baelor or near it!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will be interesting to see what route Dany will ultimately pick in the series. Head on collision with the enemy or the roundabout route with long term tactical advantages of steady supply lines and allies at the back.

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Well, 12 named characters

 

Grand Maester Pycelle
Brother Lancel
The High Sparrow
Ser Loras Tyrell
Queen Margaery Tyrell
Lord Mace Tyrell
Ser Kevan Lannister
King Tommen Baratheon
Black Walder Frey
Lothar Frey
Lord Walder Frey

 

and Lyanna Stark in flashback

 

Plus loads of randoms that were in the Sept of Baelor or near it!!

The baking of Walders into a pie and serving them to his father was very Shakespearean, very Titus Andronicus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lonnegan said:

Really solid finale, but I wish the next season was the last. The King of the North scene was a bit deja vu, no? 

 

 

B & W talked about that in the Inside The Episode featurette after the show.  They said they purposely had the scene be similar to when the Northern houses proclaimed Robb as King of the North because things didn't end up working out well for Robb, and they want the audience to worry about Jon too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

 

B & W talked about that in the Inside The Episode featurette after the show.  They said they purposely had the scene be similar to when the Northern houses proclaimed Robb as King of the North because things didn't end up working out well for Robb, and they want the audience to worry about Jon too.

Yeah that felt a bit too similar for comfort, especially when the houses now proclaiming for Jon were not exactly enthused about him and his previous plea for help but now flock at his side like a bunch of opportunists. Let's see how their proud boastful oaths last this time.

 

I loved the look Littlefinger gave to Sansa and the sudden darker turn in the music.

 

Oh and for once I can say Djawadi did good. There was a real sense of dramatic purpose and significance to his music in this episode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, crocodile said:

Well, one thing that really started to bother me is how fast people travel now. Is there like an ancient Valyrian underground network working?

 

Karol

 

I picture Arya and Varys just picking up their Playstation controllers and picking a warp location on a map. Game of Thrones clearly has a videogame-style fast travel system!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like others here I too noticed the music was stepped up quite a bit this week.  The opening sequence in King's Landing with the long piano / cello piece was the most forward the music's ever been in the show, I think.  I even said to Marcy "Wow, they're using real instruments!".  

Another moment I noticed was the Daenerys theme (the only other theme on the show I even recognize after the Lannister theme) at the end over the final scene.  Probably the best version of her theme since Mhysa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It did such a great job selling a foreboding dread of what was to come. You just knew something wasn't right with the situation and that the Tyrells were in serious danger.

 

Very similar to the brilliant use of Rains of Castamere before the Red Wedding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only way I can explain Arya getting all the way to the Riverlands of Westeros and getting a job at the Frey castle since the end of episode 8 is that the events of Braavos weren't actually concurrent with the rest of the storylines.  I mean, all the Braavos stuff was so disconnected it doesn't have to be happening at the exact same time, even if it's implied by the cutting back and forth.

 

There's just no way to wave away Varys being in Dorne after the Sept explodes and then back in Meereen seemingly the next day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fairness, several weeks could've passed between the coronation of Cersei and the final scene with Dany. It would've taken a while to get all the ships ready to sail to Westeros.

 

Just because 10 minutes passes in "show" time doesn't mean the equivalent occurs in "story" time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

In fairness, several weeks could've passed between the coronation of Cersei and the final scene with Dany. It would've taken a while to get all the ships ready to sail to Westeros.

 

Just because 10 minutes passes in "show" time doesn't mean the equivalent occurs in "story" time.

 

This is true, but the editing/storytelling certainly implies that all this stuff is happening in quick succession. I don't think it would hurt story momentum to make it a little more clear how much time is passing.

 

Anyway, other than the nagging disappointment with Benioff/Weiss suddenly shrinking the world down to the size of New England, I thought this was an amazing episode.

 

Tommen committing suicide had me completely agape. I love that Cersei is essentially the outright villain of this show now. She's even got a new costume fit for a villain!

 

I'd say that it's bad news for Jon to be named "King in the North" given what happened to Robb, but where I think they'll go with this storyline is that Jon won't commit the same mistakes as Robb.

 

So now it's confirmed that Jon is Dany's....nephew?  Do I have that family tree right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, crocodile said:

Well, one thing that really started to bother me is how fast people travel now. Is there like an ancient Valyrian underground network working?

 

Karol

 

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Wormhole!

 

5 hours ago, MedigoScan said:

deleted time transition shots!

 

4 hours ago, Lonnegan said:

We're gonna need transitioning aerial vista shots next season for that stuff, with Williams drafted in for the spacey fanfares on a bed of strings as we settle into the latest locale. 

 

4 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

how the hell did Varys get from Dorne (where he met with Lady Tyrell) then back to Essos in order to board the ships and then go back over the narrow sea with Dany and her band? He must fly 'Air Eunuch.'

 

2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

The only way I can explain Arya getting all the way to the Riverlands of Westeros and getting a job at the Frey castle since the end of episode 8 is that the events of Braavos weren't actually concurrent with the rest of the storylines.  I mean, all the Braavos stuff was so disconnected it doesn't have to be happening at the exact same time, even if it's implied by the cutting back and forth.

 

There's just no way to wave away Varys being in Dorne after the Sept explodes and then back in Meereen seemingly the next day.

 

Just now, crumbs said:

In fairness, several weeks could've passed between the coronation of Cersei and the final scene with Dany. It would've taken a while to get all the ships ready to sail to Westeros.

 

 

 

Jeez, some of you get it and some of you don't!

 

All this "fast traveling" isn't "fast traveling" at all; the show simply shows different storylines at different rates.

 

Surely weeks passed between the Sept exploding and Olenna treating with the Martells, and then it was probably a month or two more after that until Daenerys actually left Essos.  all the Northern scenes shown this season as well as Arya's time in Braavos would have actually all been over with months before the Sept exploded.

 

They don't adhere to a strict chronological format so storylines can stretch a whole season instead of wrapping up early, then be off the show for 5 episodes while other events happen.  When we see Winterfell next season, it will probably begin months after Jon is crowned King.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jay said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jeez, some of you get it and some of you don't!

 

All this "fast traveling" isn't "fast traveling" at all; the show simply shows different storylines at different rates.

 

Surely weeks passed between the Sept exploding and Olenna treating with the Martells, and then it was probably a month or two more after that until Daenerys actually left Essos.  all the Northern scenes shown this season as well as Arya's time in Braavos would have actually all been over with months before the Sept exploded.

 

They don't adhere to a strict chronological format so storylines can stretch a whole season instead of wrapping up early, then be off the show for 5 episodes while other events happen.  When we see Winterfell next season, it will probably begin months after Jon is crowned King.

 

Your explanation is your assumption, it is NOT in the text of the show. Extra-textual justifications!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The show has always been a bit vague on this, and how much time passes between episodes and in now the different storylines are in sync.

 

The fact that Jaime had to get from walder's place to Kings Landing to see the coronation indicates a certain amount of time passed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

So now it's confirmed that Jon is Dany's....nephew?  Do I have that family tree right?

 

 

Absolutely right.  The Mad King had 8 children - but only his first, 7th, and 8th survived beyond childhood (or weren't stillborn).

 

His first-born was Prince Rhaegar, who married Elia Martell and had 2 children with her, but during Robert's Rebellion Gregor Glegane murdered those children and raped and murdered Elia Martell (which is the motivation for the current Dorne characters to want revenge), and Prince Rhagar was killed at the Battle of the Trident - after he "kidnapped" Lyanna Stark and impregnated her with Jon Snow (its likely not a kidnapping and rap at all, but that Lyanna and Rhaegar were actually in love; It remains to be seen if they were legally wed or not - if they were, Jon is not actually a bastard, but technically Jon Targaryen).

 

His 7th born was Viserys, killed by Drogo in Season 1, and his 8th born is Daenerys..... Jon's aunt!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The fact that Jaime had to get from walder's place to Kings Landing to see the coronation indicates a certain amount of time passed.

 

This nagged at me a little as well.  They strongly implied that Jaime was only just learning of Cersei's actions upon seeing the smoke pillar rising from the Sept.  If the coronation was weeks later, this doesn't make sense at all to me. Word of an event like this would travel fast.

 

Again, these minor plot holes don't detract from my enjoyment of a spectacular episode, but are worth discussing I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Speaking of Cersei, the lady has now truly and utterly lost it as much as she has lost everything dear to her for power. It was chilling to see it and Heady did a brilliant job conveying this almost just by her quiet demeanor.

 

Yep, she has nothing to lose and nothing to gain except power. Truly a frightening prospect when you consider the lengths she is prepared to go to to ensure she remains on the iron throne.

 

Didn't even weep for Tommen when inspecting his body. Whatever good her children brought out of her is now totally lost and only the cold darkness seems to remain in Cersei. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting fact I just read online:

 

Quote

With the death of Mace Tyrell, all heads of Westeros's Great Houses at the beginning of the TV series are now dead. The heads of Houses Arryn, Targaryen, Baratheon, and Stark died in Season 1, the head of House Tully in Season 3, the head of House Lannister in Season 4, and the heads of Houses Martell, Greyjoy, and Tyrell in Season 6.

 

 

Out of all those Great Houses, the only ones with living male heirs are Arryn (Robin), Stark (Bran), Tully (Edmure), and Greyjoy (Euron/Theon).  If bastards count, then Targaryen too, through Jon (who might not be a bastard anyway, if Lyanna married Rhaegar).

 

The line of Baratheon, Lannister, Martell, and Tyrell is effectively done, unless bastards count for Baratheon (Gendry).  Other (non-Great but notable) Houses such as Frey, Bolton, Karstark, Umber are basically dead too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Speaking of Cersei, the lady has now truly and utterly lost it as much as she has lost everything dear to her for power. It was chilling to see it and Heady did a brilliant job conveying this almost just by her quiet demeanor.

 

Indeed, though the one shot right after the explosion where she swigs from her wine in the now classic Cersei style was just a tad too much a pop culture reference, methinks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Incanus said:

Yeah that felt a bit too similar for comfort, especially when the houses now proclaiming for Jon were not exactly enthused about him and his previous plea for help but now flock at his side like a bunch of opportunists. Let's see how their proud boastful oaths last this time. 

 

Tbh, I found it ever so slightly funny. It ought to have been truly stirring, but past disasters made it feel a teensy bit Monty Python instead. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The wildfire plot was foreshadowed of course, but it wasnt lacking in dramatic power. Cersie does her Michael Corleone thing and becomes, for the time being the most powerful woman in Westeros. But even Jaime will hesitate to follow her now I think.

 

Yes, I think it will be interesting to see how Jaime handles all this.  He has not only lost his only remaining son (and child altogether), but his sister took the crown by force by murdering loads of people.  Will he be a Queenslayer?  Will he align with Daenerys and kill Cersei so she can take the Iron Throne?  So many possibilities.  I hope Jaime and Tyrion get a scene together before its all over.

 

Quote

Finally Dany has left Mereen. Her scene with Daario was very good and the one with Tyrion excellent. Funny. I never noticed just how small Clarke was till I saw her standing next to the Imp.

 

He was standing on a step or two higher than she was, you can see when it cuts to the wide shot at the end of the cene

 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cIqnCwfukXQ/maxresdefault.jpg

 

She is short though; It was especially notable in Terminator 5.

 

Quote

So Arya DID learn the face changing trick! Meaning there was some point to her travels to Braavos after all. Her finishing of Walder Frey is very satisfying.

 

It was satisfying for sure, but I do wonder if instead of going for the surprise angle, what it would have been like if instead we followed Arya into Westeros, murdering a waitress to take her face, saw her killing Black Walder and Lothar and baking them into the pies... I dunno.  

 

Quote

Did we have just about every story line in this ep apart from Brienne, and The Hound?

 

Correct!  Unless you count Jorah Mormont and his quest to cure greyscale, or the remaining people at Castle Black, or the White Walkers.

 

Quote

Also loved the scene where Ser Davos confronts the Red Woman, and Jon has no choice but to let her go. Where will she go too? back to the Brotherhood? Kings Landing? I doubt after her encounter with the Sparrows Cersie will have much patience with another religion.

 

It seems certain that she'll run into Arya eventually, since the show runners had her tell Aarya they'd meet again when they met in Season 3.  Melisandre is actually on Arya's list, because she thinks Melisandre hurt/killed Gendry.  Maybe Melisandre will get spared if she can convince Arya she let Gendry go.  Maybe we'll actually see Gendry next year!

 

I think we wouldn't have been shown The Hound and the Brotherhood Without Banners this season if he and them weren't going to connect to other storylines next season, so it seems likely Melisandre will run into them.  It would certainly be interesting to see Melisanrre and Thoros meet again, since Melisandre only knew to resurrect Jon after hearing that Thoros resurrected Beric Dondarrion six times.  Again, lots of possibilities!

 

Quote

I guess we will get more of Dorne. It was a bit confusing seeing Varys there and later standing next to Dany. Is he playing his own game, or will Dorne and the Tyrells fight alongside Dany for the Iron Throne?

 

I don't think he is playing his own game.  I think since the pilot, his goal has been to get a Targaryen back on the throne.

 

Quote

Winter has come, but next season it will still not be the one where the Nigh King and his army start their assault. The War of the Kings is still waging.

 

Agreed.  Season 7 will be Danerys/Tyron/Yara/Theon/Tyrell/Martell vs Cersei/Lannisters vs Euron vs Jon/North.  Season 8 will be who ever is left vs White Walkers.  I think Sam in Oldtown will learn more about the White Walkers, and learn about where to get more Valryian Steel and/or more Dragonglass.  I also think Jorah will find something on his quest for a cure that will end up being used in the great fight.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Yes, I think it will be interesting to see how Jaime handles all this.  He has not only lost his only remaining son (and child altogether), but his sister took the crown by force by murdering loads of people.  Will he be a Queenslayer?  Will he align with Daenerys and kill Cersei so she can take the Iron Throne?  So many possibilities.  I hope Jaime and Tyrion get a scene together before its all over.

 

 

I honestly think this storyline (the Lannisters and the Jaime/Cersei relationship specifically) may very well end with a murder-suicide (Jaime killing Cersei and then himself).  I wouldn't be surprised if it did at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is, you don't want the Iron Throne to just be handed to Daenerys.  You need her to take an active role in unseating Cersei, I would think.  It would break the cyclical nature of her story so far, where everything has been so easy for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still want Dany to get eaten by one of her dragons. 

 

Maybe be by two of her dragons like Eddie in TLW. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Your explanation is your assumption

 

No, it was explicitly confirmed by Bryan Cogman in an interview a few weeks ago that the scenes from different storylines are not intended to be in chronological order. That is an extra-textual justification, of course; the textual proof is gleaned from the fact that there are certain combinations of scenes which could not possibly have occurred in the order in which they are presented.

 

In this respect, the show is in accordance with the books. Sometimes a given chapter relates things that would have to have happened months before the preceding chapter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another cool thing I read:  The three main conspirators of The Red Wedding were killed the same way as the three main victims of The Red Wedding.

 

Shot by bolts: Robb, Tywin

Stabbed in the gut: Talisa, Roose

Throat slit: Catelyn, Walder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

 

No, it was explicitly confirmed by Bryan Cogman in an interview a few weeks ago that the scenes from different storylines are not intended to be in chronological order. That is an extra-textual justification, of course; the textual proof is gleaned from the fact that there are certain combinations of scenes which could not possibly have occurred in the order in which they are presented.

 

In this respect, the show is in accordance with the books. Sometimes a given chapter relates things that would have to have happened months before the preceding chapter.

 

I just think to the average fan (I would count myself among them) the editing of the show makes things very confusing at times. Resulting in many "Wait but..." moments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or Sam is the only character who survives, and the whole show is a bedtime story he's telling Baby Sam!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick, somebody photoshop a picture of Jon Snow or something into the dream bubble at the end of Super Mario Bros. 2!

 

9-smb2ending-article_image.jpg

 

 

1 minute ago, Glóin the Dark said:

All three of them should be in it, as rival scholars with wildly differing interpretations of Westerosi history.

 

I like this idea a lot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Or Sam is the only character who survives, and the whole show is a bedtime story he's telling Baby Sam!

 

I don't think Damon Lindelof is involved in the writing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

The only way I can explain Arya getting all the way to the Riverlands of Westeros and getting a job at the Frey castle since the end of episode 8 is that the events of Braavos weren't actually concurrent with the rest of the storylines.  I mean, all the Braavos stuff was so disconnected it doesn't have to be happening at the exact same time, even if it's implied by the cutting back and forth.

 

I don't think Arya got a job at Frey castle, I think she murdered an existing waitress to take her face.  I don't think the Faceless Men can wear the face of the living, despite that scene where Jaqen looked like Arya just before she got blinded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I don't think Arya got a job at Frey castle, I think she murdered an existing waitress to take her face.  I don't think the Faceless Men can wear the face of the living, despite that scene where Jaqen looked like Arya just before she got blinded.

 

This would make sense, although there is absolutely nothing in the show to imply that Arya learned the face (and body?) stealing magic of the Faceless Men. Sure, she cut off the Waif's face and put it in that face...room...place but that was just a gruesome taunt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

This would make sense, although there is absolutely nothing in the show to imply that Arya learned the face (and body?) stealing magic of the Faceless Men. Sure, she cut off the Waif's face and put it in that face...room...place but that was just a gruesome taunt.

 

Totally agreed. The show showed Arya getting lots of training, but never the face taking. Oh well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While watching last night I just assumed that she had stolen a face (or maybe a bunch) from the House of Black and White and taken it with her. This theory doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but neither does the "Arya knows the face stealing magic" theory. It's definitely an issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Stefancos said:

It's Dany, Tyrion, Greyjoys, Dorne, the Tyrells and dragons plus the Starks and all the houses allied to them.

 

No, definitely not!

 

The North wants to be independent, and NOT part of King's Landing control, that's the whole point.  The War Of Five Kings was not 5 different guys who wanted to Kings of all of Westeros; Only 4 of them did (Joffrey, Balon, Stannis, Renly), while Robb wanted to be independent (the King of the North) and no longer affiliated with the rule of the King in King's Landing.


It's the same now with The War of the Four.  Cersei, Daenerys, and Euron (and apparently Littlefinger) want to be King/Queen of all of Westeros, but The North wants to be independent, with Jon Snow as their King.

 

Winter Is Coming Winter Is Here.  Soon the roads connecting the North and South will be blocked with snowdrifts.  Jon, Sansa, and the Northern houses won't be preparing to assist in any of the upcoming fights for the Iron Throne; They will focus on preparing for winter / preparing for an attack from The White Walkers if the magic at The Wall holding them back fails.  Even if Bran makes his way through the wall and into Winterfell, and tells Jon who his parents actually are, I don't think Jon will then go "oh, that means I'm supposed to be King of Westeros, then!  Hey men, let's go march down to King's Landing and take the throne because I am very interesting in ruling the entire country!"  Maybe he will want to align with his Aunt Daenerys if he learns that she is coming to take the throne, maybe not.  It would be interesting when/if they finally meet, of course!  So many possibilities.

 

 

Quote

Petyr seems more dangerous then any of then, however.

 

 

Petyr is apparently a bit of a wildcard.  His motivations were never fully and totally clear apart from his love of Catelyn until this episode.  If he wasn't lying to Sansa, he wants to rule Westeros himself, with Sansa as his Queen, either because he actually loves her, or to align the Throne with The North, or both.  But how could he even accomplish this goal?  His Vale army might out-number any other armies apart from Dany's at the moment, but will the men of the armies follow him if he tells them "Let's march through he snow to King's Landing and fight their army until the throne is mine" ?  Theoretically, the Vale army is only following him because their Lord - Robin - commanded them to ride North to help free Sansa Stark.  Now that that task is done, will they still follow Petyr?

Again, so many possibilities for next year!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

While watching last night I just assumed that she had stolen a face (or maybe a bunch) from the House of Black and White and taken it with her.

 

Hmmm, another possibility, indeed.  That way, she wouldn't have to murder someone "innocent" like a waitress at The Twins.

 

Quote

This theory doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but neither does the "Arya knows the face stealing magic" theory. It's definitely an issue.

 

Well, I suppose we just have to assume Arya learned how to wear and remove other's faces without really worrying about the details too much :)

 

6 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Arya used the face-changing technique to kill Meryn Trant

 

Oh, yea, you're right!  And that was the murder that happened without Jaqen's consent that caused him to blind her, so it wasn't like Jaqen put the face on her without how to do it, or something.  Good point.

 

Quote

, and the face-removing technique on the Waif. I guess she just needed to combine the two!

 

Hahaha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.