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GAME OF THRONES


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16 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

It was ok I guess.  At least it’s over.

 

Now I’m trying to cancel HBO and Amazon isn’t working :-/

 

Don't you want to watch the GOT documentary next week? 

 

Never mind! 

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The episode was decent I guess, some grace notes.

 

But seems like a complete change from everything that came before it. One thing I will say which the series finale violates and which is extremely troubling. If there is one attribute that defines humanity - more than compassion, more than love, it is ambition. You can call it ingenuity, or self preservation or whatever. But it is the most vital attribute of human beings and in some ways the most fundamental thing that makes us human. Survival of the fittest - here we come. Might be the most fundamental aspect of life itself, not just human life.

 

All human action to a large extent predicates on ambition. And this series finale just tosses that aside with people behaving extraordinarily uncharacteristically.

 

EXAMPLES

 

- It takes a single conversation to convince Jon Snow to murder Daenerys. One single conversation. At the beginning of the conversation, he defends her very strongly. By the end, he agrees to murder her.

 

- Drogon inexplicably fails to annihilate Jon Snow even when he sees him murdering Dany. Why?

 

- Now one of the most absurd ones. Grey Worm even in this episode absolutely 100% demonstrates he is completely devoted to Dany. No questions asked, non-negotiable. 100% on board. And she rewards his loyalty by essentially appointing him Commander-in-Chief or Joint Chiefs of staffs of the army or whatever you wanna call it. His queen is murdered by Jon Snow. What are the chances he would merely imprison him? Seriously? We are expected to buy this? He literally even in this episode murdered people even when they had done nothing. And someone murdered his queen, and he would just merely imprison him?

 

- There is again literally a 10 minute parade of the army absolutely completely 100% devoted to Dany. And yet when their ruler is murdered, nothing from them? Forget medieval times, even today it would cause riots, revolution and a war. But nothing from the unsullied or her army? They were happy to massacre people on her word. Now they will just accept another ruler? 

 

- Now again ambition - Grey Worm is appointed chief of the army - but has zero fucking ambition to become king once the king dies and he's the no. 2 (Tyrion and Jon Snow were prisoners)? Seriously? Are we to buy this from humans? Heard of the term coup-d'etat? Grey Worm is shown even within this episode to be a bloodthirsty guy. And suddenly submits to democracy? Wouldn't he want the crown? The army would accept him sooner than any other leader the council props up? What's going on here?

 

- The council. Again ambition. One speech by Tryion and they fucking elect a king with a UNANIMOUS VOTE? Do they know how parliaments work? We can't pass a single fucking bill through Congress. Come to any fucking parliament or even school boards. It's like a country's parliament choosing an MP from amongst them based on who is right for the people. Ever heard of this? No. Because this isn't human behavior. Seriously, several kings and queens present, they already are powerful hungry people and nobody wanted to be the monarch? They easily just elected a guy based on Tyrion's speech? Nobody has any other vote? Nobody votes for themselves?

 

- Again ambition. Sansa literally with 2 lines of dialog says - FUCK YOU ALL, I am going to submit to no king. I want my kingdom to be independent. Are the other 6 kingdoms suckers? In reality, they would go - What the hell? If this bitch gets to be queen, then fuck you, my kingdom is going to be an independent country too. Why the fucking hell would I submit to another king in this case? Does this make any sense?

 

- And lastly, the writers affect this truly elegiac tone for this episode. As if this was a truly monumental epoch ending momentous moment of history. Why? Just one city burned down? Big deal. In this bloody saga, this has happened several times. This has happened even in the real world in our own real history. Cities like Dresden and others were flattened during wars. Big deal. Is this is a world-changing event? The writers would have us buy this but fuck me if I buy that. There is nothing about this which makes it an event so that literally everyone single-handedly drop their ambition and suddenly becomes pro-peace. (This event could have been had if the white walkers had destroyed half of humanity or something. You need something existential for human beings to re-evaluate and change their approach to government. And the burning of a city is not it.)

 

I think many will overlook the writing flaws in lieu of a nicely produced episode but there are a lot of writing choices which make zero sense and not just betray basic character traits but they betray basic attributes about how human beings think, function and work.

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Also, the more I think about it, there definitely should have been a season between Mad Dany's rampage and her death. Like a proper season dedicated to some Breaking Bad-style empire meltdown. Her death must be one of the most dramatically unsatisfying moments in all television. It was like watching a really really bad play...

 

4 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think many will overlook the writing flaws in lieu of a nicely produced episode but there are a lot of writing choices which make zero sense and not just betray basic character traits but the basic attributes of human beings think, function and work.

 

Yea...it's basically Game of Thrones For Dummies. Probably the best you could do for a 80 minute wrap-up.

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18 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

- And lastly, the writers affect this truly elegiac tone for this episode. As if this was a truly monumental epoch ending momentous moment of history. Why? Just one city burned down? Big deal. In this bloody saga, this has happened several times. This has happened even in the real world in our own real history. Cities like Dresden and others were flattened during wars. Big deal. Is this is a world-changing event? The writers would have us buy this but fuck me if I buy that. There is nothing about this which makes it an event so that literally everyone single-handedly drop their ambition and suddenly becomes pro-peace. (This event could have been had if the white walkers had destroyed half of humanity or something. You need something existential for human beings to re-evaluate and change their approach to government. And the burning of a city is not it.)

 

Think about this. Even though I am no LOTR fanboy but if you actually consider the books, the ending of the LOTR is the middle-earth version of a World War. I don't remember if it is shown in the movie but in the books Tolkein goes to great lengths to show that this was truly a monumental event that would end an age. He mentions war and fighting taking place in the north, in the forests of mirkword, way up north, way to the east, in of course all of the middle regions, and multiple locations in the south. Even the Shire gets affected by war.

 

So there you have it - it was that epoch earth-shattering event - a WORLD WAR which affected ALL THE PEOPLE of middle-earth to cause this massive change in regular order. That is because Tolkein understands how humans work. How human civilization works. A fantasy world does not betray the principles of humanity or human civilization.

 

But here? There is literally one city that is burned down. And the writers will have us believe that literally changed the entire world? Seriously?

 

EDIT: I might be wrong but I believe even the Prequel Trilogy and the Original Trilogy implied that the war and the corresponding resolution was taking place at multiple points in the galaxy.

 

But here? One city. What a failure of world-building. Or a great way to render your big finale extremely small and reductive and myopic.

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Even in World War II, not absolutely everywhere was affected. No battles took place in the continental Americas, and Australia and New Zealand managed to avoid conflict with Japan on home turf.

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I think its a satisfying ending.

 

I love how the new king's elected.

It's like there is this sense of "mockery/ridiculing" among the lords ( with the uncle speaking aye first, i mean what could be more mocking that the most selfish guy in the room agreeing first) . I can assume that the lords must have thought that " now thats the king we can use ( considering the physical attribute)".

In hindsight, it implies, in politics, there is always the bad side. There will always be a game. 

It paves the story of how "the king" can prove to the lords that he is the suitable king ( hence Tyrion said " That will improve" in the council meeting, to which the king replied with a mirhtless chuckle "im sure it will"). There will be conflict, AGAIN, but thats okay, thats the nature of politics. At least we got good man, the-man-who-knows-it-all in charge.

We will never know that story, but i like that there is this assurance that at least it will be fine and not evil.

 

I also like the fate of Jon Snow. I like how he always mumbling how " no icant be the king,  i am not a king, bla2", to the extent that it "annoys" Tyrion. In return Tyrion gives him the payback such as portrayed in the show " im sick of it Jon, now take that, you and your wife-less life!"

 

AND I LOVE THE COUNCIL MEETING SCENE.

In the end there is always be a conflict. There will always be a different opinion. When they are arguing wether to build port or brothel first, i love how the camera slowly pans back, to say to the audience " DAY 01 again" 

 

 

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The events leading up to the World War II and the the World War II dwarf the sacking of King's Landing by a proportion of 1 trillion:1. Surely everyone could agree to that.

 

Does it show the smallness of human imagination that for an equivalent event in their fantasy world, the writers could only come up with the destruction of a single city? Maybe it is just me but I would have come up with something much more daring. Even a Disney summer entertainment for their world changing event came up with the planetary genocide of 3.5 billion humans (likely much much much more than that). And Star Wars routinely exterminates entire worlds (i.e. planets) as 30 second side-shows, and not even as the main event.

 

Dunno, maybe it is just me but I found the endgame of GOT extremely low-stakes and it was made all the worse by people suddenly forgetting their ambitions, holding hands and singing a song of peace.

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2 hours ago, John said:

How was the final episode? Was it the big piece of crap everyone on Twitter and Reddit is claiming it is?

 

Could have been serviceable if not undermined by the same lazy shit writing that plagued the previous two episodes.  I may not like some of the plot points themselves but I think pretty objectively this was major shit anyway.  It's pretty astonishing that this could happen actually.

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Lazy writing indeed sums up the whole season.

 

That GoT once shared lists with Breaking Bad is mind-boggling.

 

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There were a couple of good things in the episode but overall I felt completely emotionally detached while watching. I expected it to be somewhat muted and bittersweet but it wasn't satisfying really. It's not that I have issues with the general idea of it but the writing was occasionally really really bad.

 

Well... shall we move onto something else?

 

Karol

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1 hour ago, crocodile said:

There were a couple of good things in the episode but overall I felt completely emotionally detached while watching. I expected it to be somewhat muted and bittersweet but it wasn't satisfying really. It's not that I have issues with the general idea of it but the writing was occasionally really really bad.

 

 

Just finished it. Basically sums it up for me.

 

 

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

Well... shall we move onto something else?

 

Karol

 

Ummmm.... ;)

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Dany unleashes her craziness in one episode and then gets snuffed the next? Jesus Christ, you'd think the writers are bipolar. What was this all for? So BranFlakes can become King? What makes this all worse is that I liked the shots of the Starks going their own way and the small council etc. but it didn't feel like it was all earned, like someone sat on the skip button and we missed another season of sorely needed development. 

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What a terrible season and a quite frankly embarrassing finale. At least this dumpster fire is over.

 

 

Just a random little point, but Bran knew all along that he would be voted King, so technically he didn't contribute any information at all to help anyone during the war because he knew he would survive and be king. So in summary, Bran is a psychopath who gladly witnessed the pointless slaughter of thousands so he can get the throne. He is the most evil character in the entire show.

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And even outright told everyone he knew the outcome. "Why do you think I came all this way?" Smug fuck. What even is the point of voting for him if he already knows everyone will vote for him? I guess we just have to accept all his "I don't want anymore" and "I am not Bran Stark" was all just distracting everyone so the pieces of slaughter fell perfectly in piece and he wouldn't be suspected?

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I thought it was one of the weakest and least satisfying season finales I’ve ever seen. The best compliment I can give is that it was better than Dexter’s.

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23 minutes ago, crocodile said:

FB_IMG_1558344681074.jpg

 

Karol

 

"Now excuse me while I become Kingsguard to Bran instead of Queensguard to Sansa who I swore an oath to protect:"

 

 

 

"We still lack a Master of Whispers" Dude you can literally see everything.

Bronn once explained to Tyrion how he doesn't understand how loans or any of that complex money stuff works, neither does he care. Great choice for Master of Coin there.

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No, it was really really important in making Dany a tad more mad.

 

His resurrection I can see - everyone the LoL brought back served a purpose before they died, I guess killing the Mad Queen could be considered such a purpose.

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The events in this season should have lasted two seasons at least...or by the least...the buildup should not have been so long through the seasons...this feels rushed...as if they had run of money/or the show got cancelled and wanted to finish the series in a somewhat satistying manner... (like timeless, sense 8...)

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3 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

The events in this season should have lasted two seasons at least...or by the least...the buildup should not have been so long through the seasons...this feels rushed...as if they had run of money/or the show got cancelled and wanted to finish the series in a somewhat satistying manner... (like timeless, sense 8...)

I was under the impression that HBO would have given them more time (seasons) and money but the showrunners declined because they had decided this series would be done after 8 seasons.

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Fleshed out plot and character development? Satisfying conclusion? Fuck that, let's go do Star Wars. 

HBO couldn't even have fired them to get people who actually care about it because of the contract, they were uncircumventable.

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At least the meandering Martin would have had a chance to release another book for this novel series by the end of season 10.  :P 

 

I haven't seen a single episode of the final season and everything I have read about it makes me want to skip it entirely and just wait for the books to come out.

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